You Can't Change Your Advanced Class!?!?!

[whiskeymang]

You're tired of those comments because you see them so often.

 

You see them so often because they're true.

[jwdaniels]

SWG let you change your class....of course it was one of the dumbest ideas ever, but still you could with no lvl penalty either.

 

SWG didn't actually have classes, and it was far from a dumb idea - it was an absolutely brilliant idea that was implemented by a company with the collective intelligence of a box of rocks.

 

To the OP: re-roll and see how much faster you can blow through the content. It won't take you anything close to 3 days to replay it.

[SirHaggis]

Maybe you haven't gotten much past lvl 10 or so, but for those of us who have, we know that the above statement is pure BS.

 

There only skills shared between AC's are the ones you get during the first 10 levels. The difference between the AC's is quite huge.

 

You share a few abilities after level 10.

 

Trooper for example have 33 shared abilities, 19 vanguard only, and 22 commando only. A lot more then sharing 75% abilities.

 

Plus each has 2 unique skill trees and while the the shared trees are the same in name, the details are different for most skills.

[Arkhias]

Maybe you haven't gotten much past lvl 10 or so, but for those of us who have, we know that the above statement is pure BS.

 

There only skills shared between AC's are the ones you get during the first 10 levels. The difference between the AC's is quite huge.

 

Since you insist on parading your "knowledge" (emphasis on the quotes there) around internet forums, let me enlighten you.

 

Using my main class (Bounty Hunter) as an example and including talented spells as abilities:

 

Powertechs get 17 unique abilities and 28 shared abilities.

Mercenaries get 18 unique abilities and 28 shared shared abilities.

 

Thus, each of these unique, crystalline snowflakes of "classes" share 62% and 61% of their abilities with that other snowflake, respectively. The percentages increase when you consider only 2-3 of the unique talented spells may be taken at any one time. The other three classes show similar rates of shared abilities.

 

While not quite the quoted 75%, it's clear to anyone with a basic understanding of fractional math that the majority of abilities are shared between the corresponding advanced classes.

 

Now, I know what you're thinking - "But the advanced classes use this large shared bank of abilities, alongside their unique abilities, in different ways!" This statement should sound familiar, because it is precisely what talent specializations do and have always done.

 

If you want to argue the semantics of the term "class", and claim that the statement in the preceding paragraph is what defines a class, then I have to ask why not just divide the current advanced classes into three more "specialized" classes that one must also select permanently from?

 

TL;DR: Advanced classes are NOT identical to the traditional classes in other MMOs. Stop deluding yourself that they are.

[AtomicDP]

Truly pathetic. They had several warnings you obviously weren't paying attention. Sith Warrior, Sith Inquisitor, Bounty Hunter and Imperial Agent are NOT classes they are the characters and their stories/respective mirrors on the republic. The true classes are the advanced classes such as the Imperial Agent's operative or sniper - both have different playstyles and are their own distinct classes but share the Imperial Agent's story because developing 8 individual stories and quests to accomodate would be illogical.

[Durzaka]

 

TL;DR: Advanced classes are NOT identical to the traditional classes in other MMOs. Stop deluding yourself that they are.

 

 

 

Play an operative and Sniper or a Shadow and Sage and tell me those aren't different classes.

[Silent-Killa]

someone get this man some diapers

[OklahomaSooner]

I would love to change my Merc to a Powertech, and I figured this out around like 26 (I'm 29 right now IIRC) so I can't really go back at this point.

 

I would really like a one time only per character of switching your advanced class. I don't see any downside to this, and it will only make people happier.

[Klaxy]

While i agree people shouldn't be allowed to change there advanced class at will, i think it would be perfectly reasonable to allow people to try both out before finally picking one, either from 10-15 or 10-20 they could allow you try both before finally choosing one, or say when you get your ship.

 

edit-I also have to say most of you sound like something crawled up inside you and died, try not to be so angry about things posted on forums, its not good for you.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Klaxy

[Nitewolfe]

Idiotic logic.

 

I don't know of any MMOs where two "different" classes have 75% of the EXACT same abilities/spells.

 

Actual its not 75% its 1/3 the abilities shared

 

Take trooper

You have trooper base

You have commando ac

You have vanguard ac.

So only 1 out of 3.

 

If they ever do put in AC swapping it should revert your character to level 10.

Edited December 30, 2011 by Nitewolfe

[LilTikiBoy]

I would love to change my Merc to a Powertech, and I figured this out around like 26 (I'm 29 right now IIRC) so I can't really go back at this point.

 

I would really like a one time only per character of switching your advanced class. I don't see any downside to this, and it will only make people happier.

 

Until the people that use it decide they liked their original one better and come back here to ***** more.

[JediMB]

I would love to change my Merc to a Powertech, and I figured this out around like 26 (I'm 29 right now IIRC) so I can't really go back at this point.

 

I would really like a one time only per character of switching your advanced class. I don't see any downside to this, and it will only make people happier.

 

I'm playing Powertech, and I'm really jealous of the Mercenary's crowd control and high-damage abilities, but I wouldn't want to switch. I made an informed decision when I picked my AC, because I knew what sort of role I wanted to play.

 

But, hey, that's just me. I think going from a Mercenary to a Powertech at lv.30-ish would mean you've lost 20 levels of getting used to how you play your class. Just imagine getting into a level 50 flashpoint with a Powertech tank, only to find out that he was a Mercenary up until yesterday, and has zero experience with his new AC.

Edited December 30, 2011 by JediMB

[VanorDM]

TL;DR: Advanced classes are NOT identical to the traditional classes in other MMOs. Stop deluding yourself that they are.

 

Again you clearly haven't actually played the game yet. Because you simply have no clue what you're talking about.

 

The difference in play style between Gunslinger and Scoundrel is huge, bigger then the difference between two different classes in some MMO's.

[Wismac]

I like others missed the part in-game, where it was stated the advanced class choice was so permanent, I thought of it more like 'specs' in wow, where you could re-do those choices.

 

And to argue against people saying 'Wow' didn't let you change from X class to Y class did they?

 

I ask you this.

 

Doesn't Wow let you change from say a 'Holy - Priest' to a 'Shadow - Priest' two entirely different classes to play?

 

I feel that the advance class in ToR is pretty much the same. Heck every class, shares a 'spec tree' with it's sister class. IE: an Op and a Sniper are both still an Agent, with only 5 unique spec trees, since they both share the 'Lethality' tree.

 

They really should just have the 5 trees available and change the 'class' name if you want based on the spec tree. But since that's such a huge fundamental change to the system, allowing us to re-spec to a different advance class of our base class shouldn't be too much to ask.

 

Gate it behind a 1million cred or something to 'deter' it. But making me re-play all the same class mission for an alt, just sucks.

 

I love the game, but this is one thing I really dislike about bioware's design.

[MNWolf]

It's spelled out clearly, but I think the game would benefit from two things:

 

1) Some kind of optional training room mode before you choose. The option to go into a phased room and test out key abilities against some kind of practice droids to see what it feels like to do combat as an operative vs. as a sniper, or as an assassin vs. a sorcerer. Could be a quest that, if you're testing out operative, might have you heal a few droids for 20 second or sneak and backstab three targets. If you want to test sniper, maybe the test has you, I dunno, use some new sniper abilities to hold a cover position against charging attackers for 20 seconds (never played either, so fuzzy on the details).

 

2) After you click on an AC to select it, you should get a box that pops up that says "Are you sure? This is unchangeable after you select this," the way some games have when you're about to turn in a really hard to get token for armor.

 

Just some thoughts.

[DarrkLore]

Ac is your class.

You NEVER EVER IN ANY MMO can change from Mage to Rogue.

Deal with it.

Bioware told you 10 times over (I just put a char above ten yesterday) that AC is permanent and CAN'T BE CHANGED.

Roll a new char, it takes about 5 or 6 hours. Less if you skip the conversations you already know now.

 

Well actually in FFXI you can switch to any class you want (assuming you've unlocked it) at any time. But I think that's the only game that allows it.

Edited December 30, 2011 by DarrkLore

[VanorDM]

Doesn't Wow let you change from say a 'Holy - Priest' to a 'Shadow - Priest' two entirely different classes to play?

 

And you can do that in TOR. The difference between a Telekinetic Sage and Seer Sage are quite a bit different. One is ranged DPS, the other is a healer.

 

The difference between two AC's is actually quite large, in some cases bigger then the difference between two classes in other MMO's when you are talking about play style. Below I'm listing the Republic versions because I know the names better.

 

Jedi Consular - Sage is Healer/Ranged DPS with a single saber. Shadow is Tank/Melee DPS with a double bladed saber. The balance tree that they share actually plays differently depending on your AC even though it's a shared tree.

 

Smuggler - Gunslinger is long ranged, stationary DPS or melee DPS. Scoundrel is short ranged/melee stealth DPS, and healing.

 

Trooper - Vanguard short range/melee Tank class. Commando, long range Healer/DPS

 

The Knight classes aren't massively different, both are melee one is a tank the other is pure DPS.

 

But it's quite clear that in most cases the AC choice is markedly different, and are at least as different as a Warrior is from a Paladin, and in some cases more so.

[drealmer]

My honest opinion is that they should simply remove the base classes. Pick your advanced class on creation and simply let things roll as they already do - but then there won't be any confusion. You rolled a Guardian, of course you can't respec Sentinel, you big silly.

 

The whole base class -> advanced class seems like designer fluff to me. It really serves no purpose in the game itself.

 

it's so they could use the same voice actor for 2 roles without raising eyebrows and people going 'wait! that's the sentinels voice, how is he also the guardian'.....it's a cheap gimmick done to work around laziness and cheap-ness that this game embodies.

[Sypheran]

I read the message, I understood it too; still doesn't mean that it should be that way...

 

you spend precious time making a character, and yet the game wants you to make an unchangable decision based only on a brief description... That isn't right. If you like the sound of one over the other, suddenly you could have a character that you don't like anymore.

 

The game should either allow players to test out the two specs before hand, or allow you change specs at a cost or certain amount of times.

 

And yes, they are specs not different classes. Classes are what you choose from the begining, you get a feel for them in only a few hours. If you don't like how it feels, then you roll a new character with little to no loss. But for these "advanced classes", you have to gamble on loosing a character that you have spent valuable time and resources into over a single question that you have nothing to base your answer on... No other MMO with advanced classes does this; and yes there are other MMO's that have advanced classes (Final Fantasy online and Ragnarok online are two examples, and both allow you to respec to be different adanced classes).

 

In ToR you have a Sith Warrior, just as Ragnarok has a Swordsman... The Sith Warrior can become a Sith Marauder or a Sith Juggernaut, just as the Swordsman can become a Knight or a Crusader... Then the Sith Marauder can become a Annihalation Marauder or a Carnage Marauder, just as the Knight can become either a Sword Knight or a Spear Knight... And so on... So... Two different games, each with multiple "advanced classes", the difference? Ragnarok allows you to respec to a different (but equal) "advanced class", when you decide the one you have isn't for you, instead of wasting your time having you create a completely new character.

 

Time is money, doubley true for a game that you have to pay to play. So the more a game makes you feel like you've wasted your time, the less you'll want to play it. This makes the "absolutely no changing advanced class" idea a pour design choice in the long run for Lucasarts/Bioware/EA.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Sypheran

[Gformutorila]

I read the message, I understood it too; still doesn't mean that it should be that way...

 

you spend precious time making a character, and yet the game wants you to make an unchangable decision based only on a brief description... That isn't right. If you like the sound of one over the other, suddenly you could have a character that you don't like anymore.

 

The game should either allow players to test out the two specs before hand, or allow you change specs at a cost or certain amount of times.

 

And yes, they are specs not different classes. Classes are what you choose from the begining, you get a feel for them in only a few hours. If you don't like how it feels, then you roll a new character with little to no loss. But for these "advanced classes", you have to gamble on loosing a character that you have spent valuable time and resources into over a single question that you have nothing to base your answer on... No other MMO with advanced classes does this; and yes there are other MMO's that have advanced classes (Final Fantasy online and Ragnarok online are two examples, and both allow you to respec to be different adanced classes).

 

In ToR you have a Sith Warrior, just as Ragnarok has a Swordsman... The Sith Warrior can become a Sith Marauder or a Sith Juggernaut, just as the Swordsman can become a Knight or a Crusader... Then the Sith Marauder can become a Annihalation Marauder or a Carnage Marauder, just as the Knight can become either a Sword Knight or a Spear Knight... And so on... So... Two different games, each with multiple "advanced classes", the difference? Ragnarok allows you to respec to a different (but equal) "advanced class", when you decide the one you have isn't for you, instead of wasting your time having you create a completely new character.

 

Time is money, doubley true for a game that you have to pay to play. So the more a game makes you feel like you've wasted your time, the less you'll want to play it. This makes the "absolutely no changing advanced class" idea a pour design choice in the long run for Lucasarts/Bioware/EA.

 

I agree 100% with this. Right now I'm playing a IA Sniper but I sort of regret going sniper. Sniper is a bit boring just pew pew pew and not a lot of interesting game mechanics. From what I have seen is that operatives are more fun but now I'm stuck with sniper. Since I level really slow and my sniper is now level 24 I just cannot see me rolling an alt any time soon. Just for example I played WoW for 7 year and only had 1 character at max level and some alts some I had for years without ever reaching max level.

 

Maybe when my sniper reaches 50 in a couple of weeks I'll try Sith Sorcerrer.

[mattholcroft]

What people don't seem to understand on here is, SOME PEOPLE JUST CAN'T BE BOTHERED TO REDO 1/2 OR EVEN 3 DAYS OF WORK. SOME OF US HAVE LIVES TO LIVE.

 

Caps was necessary because some people just don't get it.

 

A "try before you buy" system is needed where you get to do some dodgy starting area extension which allows you to give both classes a try. So you can make a realistic and informed decision with experience to back it up. Just how that could work I dunno but thats what the good men and women at BioWare are for ^^

[zeroburrito]

lol @ kids thinking they should be able to change their class.

[Xerkius]

lol @ kids thinking they should be able to change their class.

 

so, you feel like a responsible man when you take the game too seriously?

 

lol @ no lifers

[mattholcroft]

so, you feel like a responsible man when you take the game too seriously?

 

lol @ no lifers

 

Agree'd.

[Gformutorila]

lol @ kids thinking they should be able to change their class.

 

Sniper and operative are NOT classes, they are specialisations. There are 4 classes in this game each with 2 specialisations and within these specialisations you can chose how to play that specialisation by using the 3 skill trees.

 

If the game stays as inflexible as it is now the shortage of tanks and healers will only increase. If there are not enough tanks and healers people will not enjoy the game and will leave. Having an option to DPS or heal or tank whatever is needed for the party depending on class will only increase game satisfaction.