Acquisition Changes: Next PTS Patch

[FlameYOL]

While the changes seemed promising on paper I am still having issues finding items that are an improvement, I've done a Master Mode Hammer Station run and got more gear than in my previous attempts but little to nothing was an actual improvement in terms of stats I want. So I de-constructed most of it and tried my luck at Takanna with the same results, I attempt to get a relic and I got Shrouded Crusader twice. The mods, enhancements and armorings being "unidentified" is also not optimal, as it doesn't protect us from spending too many Tech Fragments on a piece of item that isn't likely to end up being what we want for our character.

 

The vendor really isn't being an RNG protection, merely another layer. As for the Set Bonuses and Tactical Item vendors the price is far too steep, 3.000 Tech Fragments for merely one piece of gear? I would understand it if it was in the 1 to 1.500 range or maybe even 1.500 to 2.000 but 3.000? Either you'd have to boost how many Tech Fragments we're earning or significantly lower the price of the vendor for it to be viable, which also brings me to my next point. Get rid of the 3K limit, its needless.

 

Edit: Now I seem to be getting gear pieces that are at least a sidegrade at the very least, though the vendor still disappoints me I've settled for a less than ideal relic (At least for what I'm going for). Have yet to see a set bonus for my discipline drop however.

Edited September 26, 2019 by FlameYOL

[dracmor]

Impressions from the latest PTS patch concerning loot acquisition:

 

TL;DR: Either I am not understanding how the loot works or it is one step forward and two steps backwards.

 

The good:

 

I liked having the equipment crates added to the flashpoint and Onderon weeklies. I hope such crates will be added to more weeklies as well.

 

I was able to play my Merc dps and Sorc heals and use the moddable weapon and offhand of my choice and keep it moddable - enough mods dropped or I would bolster with a mod purchased from the Evil RNG Vendor but I did not have to equip a non-modded weapon.

 

There seemed to be an increase in the amount of tech fragments earned.

 

I liked having a crafting bag added as a loot drop.

 

What I did:

 

Ran 5 Veteran Hammer Station FPs solo on both my Merc DPS and my Sorc Heals. On only my Sorc I did the Onderon weekly. My Merc started at IR 276 and ended at IR 280. My Sorc started at IR 279 and ended at IR 281.

 

Bugs/Issues:

 

So 80% of loot drops from all sources - FP bosses, renown crates, equipment crates, etc. dropped loot that was usually lower than my current IR. For example, when my Merc received the FP equipment crates at IR 280 I received something like 5 or 6 pistols, none of which were higher than IR 278. I ended up using one mod and one barrel from all of them and deconstructed the rest. My Sorc ran three Hammer Stations and did not get a single piece of gear that was an upgrade - yes, a couple pieces matched (i.e. receiving say a 282 boot when I already had a 282 boot) but compared to the last go around it was a much, much lower percentage. So what is happening here? Is this a case of the higher the IR the lower the chance of getting improved gear? Or is the gear limited due to how easy the content is? Or is this a bug and gear is not dropping correctly?

 

Still received some tanking mods/gear - although far less than last time - on both the Merc and the Sorc. My Merc got a hilt as a drop and my Sorc got a barrel as a drop. Aren't drops supposed to match your discipline?

 

When my IR 279 Merc purchased a Mainhand weapon from the Evil RNG Vendor I received an IR 276 pistol - it had a 274 barrel, a 276 mod and a 280 enhancement. But I already had 280 enhancements in my MH and OH so this was totally worthless. My IR 280 Sorc bought a lightsaber and got a IR 278 lightsaber - 274 hilt, 280 mod, 280 enhancement - again, worthless. I thought the intent of the Evil RNG Vendor was to give gear higher than your IR?

 

An empty modded piece will not deconstruct. A modded piece with no armor/hilt/barrel but with an enhancement and/or a mod will not deconstruct. - Intended or a bug?

 

If I deconstruct a fully modded piece of gear I might get 3-6 fragments, but if I pull all the mods and deconstruct each mod I would wind up with 9 - 15 tech fragments. In other words, deconstructing a fully modded gear always resulted in fewer tech fragments than paying the credits to empty it out and then deconstructing the individual pieces. Intended or bug?

 

Suggestions:

 

When modded gear drops, the mod in the gear should all be the exact same value. I.E. if a 280 pistol drops, it should have a 280 barrel, a 280 mod, and a 280 enhancement. The Item Rating of a piece of gear should not be an average.

 

It was my understanding that gear purchased or dropped would at least match one's current IR level - maybe my understanding is incorrect. Please make it so that all gear purchased or dropped will at least match the current IR.

 

 

Thanks for listening, as always just my two cents.

[OlBuzzard]

So...after my very quick initial testing, and I'm going to be comparing PTS for 6.0 (version 1) to what was just released...skipping the incremental changes...

 

I took a toon from 70 to 75 via the terminal on Odessen.

Clicked to 500 million credits

Went to my stronghold and equipped all 306 gear except main/offhand blasters

 

Started with three stacks of 9999 stims to deconstruct for free tech fragments.

 

It took 5-6 sets to get 306 blaster pistols, and that was after I just started ripping out the 306 modifiers (barrels / mods / enhancements) as I got them. I didn't even try to wait until the RNG overlord gave me something with full 306 guts.

 

Then I went to the next room and got two empty shells from the set bonus vendor. No "guts" there, just empty shells...(as I predicted / suspected).

 

I paid 3k tech fragments and 1 million credits....each....for 1 tactical and 2 empty shells....bracer / legs

 

Then I went back to the slot machine vendor (my new name for it) Nitoo (I'm on pub side on my gunslinger)

 

To get the stuff to fill 1 bracer and 1 leg slot...here's what it took....at 300 tech fragments each time.

 

6 spins of the armoring slot machine to get two Versatile armorings.

Tank / Tank / DPS / Tank / Tank / DPS

 

5 spins of the MOD slot machine to get two DPS mods

Tank / DPS / Tank / Tank / DPS

 

5 spins of the Enhancement slot machine to get ONE DPS enhancement

 

Tank / Heal (alacrity) / Tank / Heal (alacrity) / DPS (accuracy)

 

Oh...and I forgot...I bought a helmet also, but ripped the mods out of the helmet I had to put in the new one...so nothing there except spending 3k more tech frags for fun

 

So while there are certainly better options and better chances at improvement compared to what we started with...for a method that was promised to be RNG protection....there is still a large amount of RNG in JUST THIS ONE VENDOR.

 

it is supposed to be a vendor, right?

 

 

Oh...I spent 5855 stims' worth of tech fragments to do that.

 

I'm ending with 1200 tech fragments.

I started with 3k

3k tech frags per 810 stims (roughly)

I RE'd 7 stacks of stims

That's 21000 tech fragments

+ 3000 that I started with

24000 total available to spend

ending with 1200

 

 

I needed 22800 tech frags for a dozen weapons

1 each tactical / bracer / legs / helmet

16 spins to equip the bracer / legs.

 

All of this is STARTING at all 306 gear (except for the two blasters)

 

 

 

 

TL;DR: If Darev wants a Diet Coke, he wants to go to the vendor and get a friggin Diet Coke -- not one who says...

 

Insert your money. You'll get a Coke product, but damned if I can tell you if it will be a Diet Coke, a Coke, a Cherry Coke, a New Coke, etc.

 

Darev is right with respect to where we are now with Mods. The whole point of Tak is that she offers a SPECIFIC item at a higher cost. But now the RNG factor is still there (despite the discipline limitation) AND they still have the Tech Fragment costs out of whack and the 3000 limitation is absurd on its face.

 

Dasty

 

Nicely done … really ! Excellent ! I love seeing just strait forward stuff !!

Edited September 27, 2019 by OlBuzzard

[Calwred]

also will the current armor sets be updated, because quite a few alts, I have at moment are wearing parts of various armor sets, to create the look, I like, will there be new slots for those armors as well or just the new ones.

[Solarmind]

The game NEEDS to have RNG as a major part of the loot system.

You can't be more wrong.

[DarthBryn]

Takatta will now sell mods by type.

Reminder that anything you purchase from Takatta will always be for your current Discipline and of a higher rating than your character's current average.

 

My Operative has an Item Rating of 306, went to Takkanna to get new Main Hand and Off Hand and dispite the above statement i recieved a 299 rated MH a 296 Rated MH and a 294 Rated MH.

 

On the plus side none where for a Tank which is what happened when I tried to get a Barrel for the shell I have.

[TrixxieTriss]

While the changes seemed promising on paper I am still having issues finding items that are an improvement, I've done a Master Mode Hammer Station run and got more gear than in my previous attempts but little to nothing was an actual improvement in terms of stats I want. So I de-constructed most of it and tried my luck at Takanna with the same results, I attempt to get a relic and I got Shrouded Crusader twice. The mods, enhancements and armorings being "unidentified" is also not optimal, as it doesn't protect us from spending too many Tech Fragments on a piece of item that isn't likely to end up being what we want for our character.

 

The vendor really isn't being an RNG protection, merely another layer. As for the Set Bonuses and Tactical Item vendors the price is far too steep, 3.000 Tech Fragments for merely one piece of gear? I would understand it if it was in the 1 to 1.500 range or maybe even 1.500 to 2.000 but 3.000? Either you'd have to boost how many Tech Fragments we're earning or significantly lower the price of the vendor for it to be viable, which also brings me to my next point. Get rid of the 3K limit, its needless.

 

Edit: Now I seem to be getting gear pieces that are at least a sidegrade at the very least, though the vendor still disappoints me I've settled for a less than ideal relic (At least for what I'm going for). Have yet to see a set bonus for my discipline drop however.

 

Also like to add support to this, having a legacy cap of 3000 tech fragments is ridiculous if the prices per piece are going to be 3000.

Get rid of the cap. Who cares if you have 100000 fragments or 3000 fragments. It won’t stop people gearing any faster or slower. All it does is cause a massive pain in the back side trying to manage something and takes away from QOL enjoyment.

It’s not needed and the continued reluctance to listen to this feed back with every PTS build is frankly frustrating.

[TrixxieTriss]

While im not thrilled that the amount of RNG has been reduced from PTS, i think its great and necessary for balance. The game NEEDS to have RNG as a major part of the loot system. I honestly like the thrill of the hunt. My kids like those surprise packs toys as well, which is what i equate RNG to. My time in game is for fun, not necessarily target locked on loot. And i hinestly think imbalance occurs when players that are fortunate enough to have more playtime can gear out faster than lesser-playtime players, so there absolutely needs to be a gate on loot acquisition. RNG is the best gate because its not a finite gate, but does encourage (not require) more playtime and activity.

 

The more RNG, the better, imo. I know at least 946 other players who feel similarly, so im sure many others do as well.

 

Is this Ben Irving’s ghost of swtor past?

 

946 players who feel similar? Please provide proof.... or as you like to tell everyone else, it’s wrong or you are exaggerating.

I challenge you to personally get 100 different people to post on the forums who feel similarly to you, I’m not even sure you know 946 players personally or that you could even get 20 people to post, let alone 100. But please prove me wrong.

[TrixxieTriss]

So...after my very quick initial testing, and I'm going to be comparing PTS for 6.0 (version 1) to what was just released...skipping the incremental changes...

 

I took a toon from 70 to 75 via the terminal on Odessen.

Clicked to 500 million credits

Went to my stronghold and equipped all 306 gear except main/offhand blasters

 

Started with three stacks of 9999 stims to deconstruct for free tech fragments.

 

It took 5-6 sets to get 306 blaster pistols, and that was after I just started ripping out the 306 modifiers (barrels / mods / enhancements) as I got them. I didn't even try to wait until the RNG overlord gave me something with full 306 guts.

 

Then I went to the next room and got two empty shells from the set bonus vendor. No "guts" there, just empty shells...(as I predicted / suspected).

 

I paid 3k tech fragments and 1 million credits....each....for 1 tactical and 2 empty shells....bracer / legs

 

Then I went back to the slot machine vendor (my new name for it) Nitoo (I'm on pub side on my gunslinger)

 

To get the stuff to fill 1 bracer and 1 leg slot...here's what it took....at 300 tech fragments each time.

 

6 spins of the armoring slot machine to get two Versatile armorings.

Tank / Tank / DPS / Tank / Tank / DPS

 

5 spins of the MOD slot machine to get two DPS mods

Tank / DPS / Tank / Tank / DPS

 

5 spins of the Enhancement slot machine to get ONE DPS enhancement

 

Tank / Heal (alacrity) / Tank / Heal (alacrity) / DPS (accuracy)

 

Oh...and I forgot...I bought a helmet also, but ripped the mods out of the helmet I had to put in the new one...so nothing there except spending 3k more tech frags for fun

 

So while there are certainly better options and better chances at improvement compared to what we started with...for a method that was promised to be RNG protection....there is still a large amount of RNG in JUST THIS ONE VENDOR.

 

it is supposed to be a vendor, right?

 

 

Oh...I spent 5855 stims' worth of tech fragments to do that.

 

I'm ending with 1200 tech fragments.

I started with 3k

3k tech frags per 810 stims (roughly)

I RE'd 7 stacks of stims

That's 21000 tech fragments

+ 3000 that I started with

24000 total available to spend

ending with 1200

 

 

I needed 22800 tech frags for a dozen weapons

1 each tactical / bracer / legs / helmet

16 spins to equip the bracer / legs.

 

All of this is STARTING at all 306 gear (except for the two blasters)

 

I just updated the PTS and was about to do a session with my wife to test. Now I’m feeling extremely deflated to see that not enough has changed and I’m not even sure it’s worth our time to test if Bioware aren’t willing to make more substantial changes to move away from RNG.

If things don’t change more substantially by the next PTS uodate, then there won’t be time to do much before November 22nd. Which leaves me with a bad feeling this will be a bigger disaster for the game than 5.0 was.

But I’m going to force myself to test, if only to appease my own curiosity on how unlucky I will be with this system.

After that, it’s in Bioware’s court if they want to listen to the feed back they are asking for and act on it properly.

[xXSistros]

Mercenaries now get Offhand Generators. I don't know if they use the same mods like the Offhand Blaster, but either way, we can't equip them if we wanted. Your statement was that the trops will for our Discipline exclusively, so imo this is just a bug.

 

Like many others, I bother about Tank mods dropping from the SoW-Vendor. Given the vast variety of Mods, you need to help us a littlebit there.

 

Is there a discussion to grant PvP loot boxes to gsf? Yes, technically you don't need gear for that, but it's play like you want, so if someone enjoys GSF and Raids, why not reward him for his activity. Furthermore, the rewarding Daily and especially the weekly was a thing that made GSF attractive for many people who otherwise wouldn't have touched it (With 700 tech fragment, the weekly is attractive, but a gear crate would just bring it in line with other activities).

 

In my opinion, you need to get rid of the Gear progression way Stims-> Fragments ->Gear. It is ok now on the PTS for us to progress faster. But if this stays as a credit sink mechanic, you will frustrate many people. All these Billionaires will have their prefered Set and Tactical Day one, while others have to farm for weeks.

I am against every system that allows you to "prepare" you for a new Update. That's why I was happy about the CXP Consumables becoming worthless instead of being converted. Credits aren't that easy to control, but at least the Tech fragments should be independent from them. Imo, this Update lives from the tense of gear progression. You kill this excitement if you let wealthy players (and there are many of them) march through. A Credit sink punishes the people who don't have that much money more than it punishes the wealthy. (No I don't plan to crush our capitalistic system in the near future...)

[OlBuzzard]

Also like to add support to this, having a legacy cap of 3000 tech fragments is ridiculous if the prices per piece are going to be 3000.

Get rid of the cap. Who cares if you have 100000 fragments or 3000 fragments. It won’t stop people gearing any faster or slower. All it does is cause a massive pain in the back side trying to manage something and takes away from QOL enjoyment.

It’s not needed and the continued reluctance to listen to this feed back with every PTS build is frankly frustrating.

 

Simple answer: The lower the cap .. the slower the process of gathering points to throw away on RNG.. shoot the dice and get disappointing same ol' thing over and over again (like Ossus weeklies ) .. Only with a slower pace to have enough fragments in order to "purchase" to begin with !

 

I'm sorry .. but this sort of process only emboldens and justifies those who have been harshly critical of BW and the development team. BTW … NOT GOOD !

 

My personal preference: see the team score one for the Gipper ! Come on ! There is no question in my mind of the capability of the of this support staff !!

 

Good grief !!

[TrigPt]

I ran Hammer Station in a group a few times in 304-306 gear and got what I needed to complete a full set of 306 gear. I didn't keep detailed records but I think about 20% of the drops were 306.

 

Then later I ran VM Hammer Station solo in full 306 gear and got nothing but trash, almost everything that dropped was 300 or less.

 

I can only conclude after 2hours of play that either:-

a) Gear drops for an iLvl 306 player are broken

b) Doing group content solo results in nerfed drops to stop farming.

c) The more content you run in a day the worse your drops are to slow down the gearing of binge players.

Edited September 26, 2019 by TrigPt

[KendraP]

I've been thinking of what I should say for a while.

 

No Musco, I am not confused because you are being too open and explaining too many details. In fact I'm not confused. I understand everything you have said perfectly.

 

I am considering the experience I have had playing your game. I said over complicated not because I felt lost in confusion, but because the scheme is in fact, more complicated. We went from a system of heres what drops off this boss to a system of heres what drops off this boss OR you can use this currency to buy what you want. Now you are adding RNG to boss drops in addition to the addition of multiple set bonuses per class/spec/role (i.e. right now there is essentially one bonus per class and role; by very definition having, say multiple dps guardian set bonuses is more complicated than now - even having a focus guardian and a vigi guardian set bonus would be more complicated than they are now AND you are adding more than that. )

 

Then add in the fact you are adding in tactical items (entirely new concept) AND these amplifiers that I still don't see the point of beyond being a credit sink (also entirely new), and you should be able to see why the new system is, both conceptually and objectively, more complicated than the one it is replacing.

 

I said overcomplicated because, as a matter of learning what becomes of your previous attempts at implementing major changes, there always ends up being massive, even fundamental issues with gearing schema that do make it live despite the best intentioned feedback.

 

My first post when I started regularly posting was in the lead up to 5.0 imploring you to reconsider pure random gearing. That didn't happen until well after 5.0 launched. The feedback was ignored until the mass exodus.

 

Oh, and by the way, I cannot emphasize this particular point enough: I do not need or want constant gear thrown at me to continue playing your game!

 

TLDR: I'm not an idiot, Musco, I can read fine.

Edited September 26, 2019 by KendraP

[olagatonjedi]

I ran Hammer Station in a group a few times in 304-306 gear and got what I needed to complete a full set of 306 gear. I didn't keep detailed records but I think about 20% of the drops were 306.

 

Then later I ran VM Hammer Station solo in full 306 gear and got nothing but trash, almost everything that dropped was 300 or less.

 

I can only conclude after 2hours of play that either:-

a) Gear drops for an iLvl 306 player is broken

b) Doing group content solo results in nerfed drops to stop farming.

c) The more content you run in a day the worse your drops are to slow down the gearing of binge players.

Perhaps working as intended. If you have 306 gear, you cant technically get gear above it since it doesnt exist. Maybe just coding for side-grading. Or maybe that is the purpose of the RNG element in the vendors, is that primary gearing UNTIL 306 will be drops, but after you get 306 avg, primary gearing will be from vendors.

[TrixxieTriss]

Simple answer: The lower the cap .. the slower the process of gathering points to throw away on RNG.. shoot the dice and get disappointing same ol' thing over and over again (like Ossus weeklies ) .. Only with a slower pace to have enough fragments in order to "purchase" to begin with !

 

I'm sorry .. but this sort of process only emboldens and justifies those who have been harshly critical of BW and the development team. BTW … NOT GOOD !

 

My personal preference: see the team score one for the Gipper ! Come on ! There is no question in my mind of the capability of the of this support staff !!

 

Good grief !!

 

And if each piece costs 3000 and the cap is 3000 (per legacy) it just means more moving things around or stop doing an activity to go back and use the tech fragments so you don’t waste them.

If they want things to cost 3000, then the cap needs to be much higher so people can manage their game play around it.

The simplest solution is to just remove the cap and let people “play their way” to gear up. The RNG gearing gate is already going to be hell, but making bad QOL decisions to frustrate players more isn’t going to endear them to anyone.

[Raansu]

Perhaps working as intended. If you have 306 gear, you cant technically get gear above it since it doesnt exist. Maybe just coding for side-grading. Or maybe that is the purpose of the RNG element in the vendors, is that primary gearing UNTIL 306 will be drops, but after you get 306 avg, primary gearing will be from vendors.

 

That's poor design, period. If you have 306, your gear drops going forward should be 306. It shouldn't be dropping lower ilevel gear.

[olagatonjedi]

That's poor design, period. If you have 306, your gear drops going forward should be 306. It shouldn't be dropping lower ilevel gear.

Its good design. It gives purpose to different sources of gear.

[Darev]

And if each piece costs 3000 and the cap is 3000 (per legacy) it just means more moving things around or stop doing an activity to go back and use the tech fragments so you don’t waste them.

If they want things to cost 3000, then the cap needs to be much higher so people can manage their game play around it.

The simplest solution is to just remove the cap and let people “play their way” to gear up. The RNG gearing gate is already going to be hell, but making bad QOL decisions to frustrate players more isn’t going to endear them to anyone.

 

Fairly certain the cap is legacy based, not character based.

The big question is this....once you hit cap are you done for the week, like Ossus "currency"?

Or can you earn up to the 3k cap as many times as you want?

Edited September 26, 2019 by Darev

[FlameYOL]

Fairly certain the cap is legacy based, not character based.

The big question is this....once you hit cap are you done for the week, like Ossus "currency"?

Or can you earn up to the 3k cap as many times as you want?

 

The cap's UI doesn't seem to indicate a weekly limit, merely a cap itself. Like Command Tokens would.

[toomanyluigis]

We know many of you use modded armor pieces (often with augments) and so will have a desire to move mods around through your gear. This is especially true for weapons since they are currently not in appearance designer. Here are the changes we are making:

• All weapons will now be moddable, and drop with mods included.
  

• This includes both drops and purchased weapons.
  

 

If this what your going for, can you please make all weapons in the game moddable? As you say weapons are not added to the outfit designer so this would rectify that...mostly.

Edited September 26, 2019 by toomanyluigis

[OlBuzzard]

edited ….

deleted ….

 

done !

Edited September 27, 2019 by OlBuzzard

[phalczen]

Its good design. It gives purpose to different sources of gear.

 

It’s not good design, olag . It’s a downgrade from LIVE.

 

On live, if I am a tank and I want to start working on a dps set, I just switch my spec and I’ll be still be getting tier 4 crates from Galactic Command. I switch my spec and open artifact 252 crates from GC or Ossus and get that gear. I don’t have to re-grind through 300 ranks to be getting an alternate set.

 

The way it is on PTS, I’ll be starting at 268 again. That’s demonstrably a downgrade, despite the few limited advantages Spoils of War has over Galactic Command.

[Berronaxftw]

Apologies if this has already been asked.

 

On the PTR I acquired a piece of gear [Preserver's Headgear] with a 2 and 4 set bonus, upon extracting all the mods, armorings enhancements ect, and placing them in my old helmet, the set bonus was not transferred over, it was still on the now empty Preserver's Headgear.

 

Are we changing to set bonuses being on the armour piece itself now? because I feel that would be a step in the wrong direction, I think it is much better having the set bonuses applied to the armouring, and would plead with you to keep it that way.

[Balameb]

Apologies if this has already been asked.

 

On the PTR I acquired a piece of gear [Preserver's Headgear] with a 2 and 4 set bonus, upon extracting all the mods, armorings enhancements ect, and placing them in my old helmet, the set bonus was not transferred over, it was still on the now empty Preserver's Headgear.

 

Are we changing to set bonuses being on the armour piece itself now? because I feel that would be a step in the wrong direction, I think it is much better having the set bonuses applied to the armouring, and would plead with you to keep it that way.

Set bonus will be on shells from now on. Not ideal, but what it is.

If you like a look, use outfit designer.

Biggest problem is old gear like bonus EXP, BW still haven't figured out how to convert properly as lost of people no longer have the shells.

[phalczen]

Apologies if this has already been asked.

 

On the PTR I acquired a piece of gear [Preserver's Headgear] with a 2 and 4 set bonus, upon extracting all the mods, armorings enhancements ect, and placing them in my old helmet, the set bonus was not transferred over, it was still on the now empty Preserver's Headgear.

 

Are we changing to set bonuses being on the armour piece itself now? because I feel that would be a step in the wrong direction, I think it is much better having the set bonuses applied to the armouring, and would plead with you to keep it that way.

 

Actually it’s better because the shells are bound to legacy, making it easier to transfer gear to alts.