Acquisition Changes: Next PTS Patch

[Lhancelot]

 

Thank you Lhancelot. I guess there is still time, but I don't want to waste my time trying to affect change.

 

I know what you mean.

 

Some posters like Darov write detailed accounts of what they experience on PTS with 6.0 and so it's pretty easy to have your finger on the pulse of PTS without even logging into it if you don't want to.

 

Well at least with all the stuff they adding, that alone ought to mix up the meta a bit. I mean I am tired of the same classes performing better than others. I am hoping tactics and stuff will change things up a bit.

[Lundorff]

Thank you guys for all the info. I will run FPs and only buy direct gear in this system - no random for me. Time will tell if that is fast enough to not kill my motivation. I think my upper limit for BiS is about 200 hours. Take care.

[Magragnos]

we are introducing mechanisms to work towards exactly what you want (with one change from last post).

 

Thanks for talking about what is coming in this round of changes !

 

Looking at the list of tactical items some seem have disappeared especially a tactical item for Juggernaut,

 

Grit Teeth - Taking damage while Endure Pain is active reduces the cooldown of Enraged Defense by 10 seconds per hit. This effect cannot occur more than once every 2 seconds.

 

This tactical item isn't listed in the bonus loot drops. Is it deleted or will it be available only at new vendors ?

[Astromancy]

Here you go:

 

Soda slot machine

 

I feel I have to put the "map legend" here. (That’s the thing that explains what you're looking at on actual paper maps)

 

For this analogy

 

Container type = item slot (gloves/boots/implants...etc.)

Plastic / Glass / Aluminum Can = DPS / Tank / Healer

Sizes = item rating

Types of soda (Coke / Diet Coke / etc.) = item variations of stats....accuracy / crit / etc.

 

 

 

6.0 PTS version 1

 

A) The Takatta vendor sold RNG boxes for each gear slot. The boxes were 100% RNG

B) The first revamp for the Takatta vendor made the RNG boxes from completely random to "targeted" RNG. You would get an iRating item that matched your average gear rating or something the next level up. Still didn't always match your spec/discipline.

C) The proposed revamp for gear as a whole will match your current discipline, presumably even this vendor

 

 

 

So, switching to a soda vending machine

Container types = Plastic bottle / Alum Can / Glass Bottle

Sizes = 12 oz. / 16 oz. / 20 oz.

Coke flavors = Regular Coke / Diet Coke / Mello Yellow....etc.

 

 

 

When you walk up to a Coca-Cola vending machine in real life you see your choices and you buy exactly what you want.

Put your $2 in and get your 20 oz. bottle of coke.

 

With the system introduced on the first version of PTS you walked up to a vendor that was more like a slot machine.

You put your $2 in and chose a drink container, but you didn't know what you would get out of it. It could be a tiny bit of coca cola or a larger diet coke or mellow yellow or even a bottle of fair life milk. Sure, it's all useful, but if you wanted the caffeine jolt that comes with an extra-large can of SURGE...you'll walk away disappointed. When you put another $2 in you roll the die again...Simply Orange Juice (an actual Coca Cola owned drink). It's a magic vending machine, it'll never run out of product, but you'll never know that the next time, for sure, will get you what you want. The one thing you did get every time is a bottle.

 

The players didn't like that system. I feel it's obvious why.

 

 

The next system, the first revamp, is pretty similar. Only now it's "Targeted" RNG. You can still choose the container type, but now the vending machine scans your body. You still pick a bottle, only now the vending machine knows you need at least a medium size bottle and soda. It will still randomly give you Coca Cola, or Sprite, or Diet Coke, etc...But you won't get Orange Juice or Coffee.

 

Baby Steps in the right direction, but I'm not a fan of the idea of random soda dispensing. So while this option is better than the first one...it still is pretty horrible.

 

The new proposed Soda vending machine with updated body scanning technology will let you choose the container type. It will scan your body to get you the minimum amount of drink that you need, and just maybe, if it works right, regular soda, or diet. You still won't be able to choose EXACTLY what you want, but its close enough right? Is there really THAT much difference between Classic Coke and "New" coke? Regular Coke or Cherry Coke? You've got your coke and your caffeine...that's really all you need for choices right...the actual flavor can still be a little random...right?

 

When I go to a vendor, in game and in real life, I want to be able to choose the 20 oz. plastic bottle of Surge and have it give me that every single time I buy it. If I want the 12 oz. aluminum can of Diet Coke, I want to get that every time I press that button.

That's what vending machines do, that's what I want in game vendors to do.

 

You can have RNG pretty much everywhere else in game, but if you implement vendors to be a more expensive option to counter act RNG, make sure there's no RNG involved.

 

Please.

 

Awesome analogy! One of the most hated things is RNG, and now most everything is RNG.

Edited September 23, 2019 by Astromancy
add comment

[OlBuzzard]

edited …

deleted …

 

DONE !!

Edited September 27, 2019 by OlBuzzard

[Rion_Starkiller]

I can help add some clarification here, as some of this has changed in Onslaught. Previously, all moddable and MTX gear appeared as orange quality gear. In Onslaught, only MTX items will be orange quality. All other quality color is determined by the highest quality component (so the shell, or any mods within). If you have a green quality shell with a purple quality armoring, it appears purple, etc.

 

Also, there has been some frustration around green gear dropping at all. Think of Onslaught gearing as one single tier (as if it was one of the tier bands in GC). When you first enter Onslaught you will be getting green drops. You will quickly get to an item rating where blue items start dropping and once that happens, you will no longer get green drops. This is true up through purple, etc. (for clarity I am referencing color instead of quality here).

 

-eric

 

Wait, what's MTX gear? I must have missed that definition/information somehow. Is that crafted gear?

 

Thanks for the explanation on gear colors.

Edited September 23, 2019 by Rion_Starkiller

[phalczen]

Wait, what's MTX gear? I must have missed that definition/information somehow. Is that crafted gear?

 

Thanks for the explanation on gear colors.

 

"MTX" means the gear sold on the cartel market.

[Rion_Starkiller]

"MTX" means the gear sold on the cartel market.

 

Ohhhhh I never actually wear the shells. I unlock them, create an appearance with them, then destroy them, heh. What acronym is MTX?

Edited September 23, 2019 by Rion_Starkiller

[Raansu]

Ohhhhh I never actually wear the shells. I unlock them, create an appearance with them, then destroy them, heh. What acronym is MTX?

 

Micro-transaction.

[Jdast]

Nothing I've read says you'll be able to get "BIS" gear from doing "everyday" content.

Just like you can't get 258 drops from Black Hole dailies now, I don't expect that to happen starting with 6.0

 

You'll still need to break things down into tech fragments and work your way up the gear grind to get to 306.

 

What many of us posting here are trying to fix is taking RNG out of that system.

 

See my post just above this.

 

My reading is that they are going back to 5.6 as opposed to 5.10 (Ossus) with respect to gearing with some gear targeted towards more specific content. I consider Ossus a placeholder to allow people to gear up to conquer existing content only. It has no real bearing or impact on 6.0 gearing. It was just a hamster gearing wheel to appease (some of) the masses with something to do while setting up the Onslaught storyline.

 

Your vending machine analogy is spot on. If Takatta sells discipline only mods, that's a step in the right direction, but if it's a random purchase within that discipline, that would be highly annoying given the number of mods available.

 

Put blunty: Yes, if I insert money into a vending machine to buy a Diet Coke, I want to get a Diet Coke, not a Coke or Sprite.

 

We'll know in a couple days, assuming they get the PTS up and running.

 

If Takatta truly sells specific mods, that leaves Ears, Implants, and Relics (well, and Amplifiers, but at least they've been clear about those). As I said earlier, though, be careful what you (not meaning you, specifically, but the collective 'you') wish for. Current plan is to make those legacy-wide. If they make them available for direct purchase, my guess is they might take away that legacy-wide aspect.

 

Dasty

Edited September 24, 2019 by Jdast

[albeva]

Firstly it is nice being able to work towards specific items.

 

However reading PTS changes and trying to process it all - it feels like gearing is now THE game. Everything else is there to get more gear. I don't know maybe in game things will make sense, but all of this looks to me like overly complicated to me. I have never really cared about the gear beyong having it good enough to play content I cared for / loved playing. Now? I hate being one of those "I will unsub" guys, but I do feel like that - I will play through onslought story content and probably stop playing after that.

 

This gearing doesn't look fun to me, doesn't look like something that feels rewarding or like an achievement. It's just thrown around like candy and overly complex to boot.

 

just me 2c

[JattaGin]

I'm confused about why people are confused.

 

(...)

 

P.P.P.S. I agree the Amplifier system is a bit confusing.

 

(...)

 

Looks like you are not that confused about (at least) my confusion after all.

 

Here you go:

 

Soda slot machine

 

(...)

 

Wow. Your soda vending machine analogy is spot-on. Respect for that! *fistbump* I hope it caught the devs' eyes.

 

Firstly it is nice being able to work towards specific items.

 

However reading PTS changes and trying to process it all - it feels like gearing is now THE game. Everything else is there to get more gear. I don't know maybe in game things will make sense, but all of this looks to me like overly complicated to me. I have never really cared about the gear beyong having it good enough to play content I cared for / loved playing. Now? I hate being one of those "I will unsub" guys, but I do feel like that - I will play through onslought story content and probably stop playing after that.

 

This gearing doesn't look fun to me, doesn't look like something that feels rewarding or like an achievement. It's just thrown around like candy and overly complex to boot.

 

just me 2c

 

Also my 2c. Exactly ^^this.

Edited September 24, 2019 by JattaGin

[Rion_Starkiller]

Firstly it is nice being able to work towards specific items.

 

However reading PTS changes and trying to process it all - it feels like gearing is now THE game. Everything else is there to get more gear. I don't know maybe in game things will make sense, but all of this looks to me like overly complicated to me. I have never really cared about the gear beyong having it good enough to play content I cared for / loved playing. Now? I hate being one of those "I will unsub" guys, but I do feel like that - I will play through onslought story content and probably stop playing after that.

 

This gearing doesn't look fun to me, doesn't look like something that feels rewarding or like an achievement. It's just thrown around like candy and overly complex to boot.

 

just me 2c

 

I think they have proven over the past 3 years that they simply cannot put out enough content for us -- whether it's because of funding/budget, being understaffed, terrible game engine, or some horribly convoluted old code made by previous staff.

 

With the exception of the RNG aspects, I think it will be fun playing around with amplifiers, tacticals, and new set bonuses. I look forward to finding "the right combo" that I like.

[responsiblet]

I'm interested in knowing when the PTS will be available again. I liked the work done with the items and the UI! I subbed just to try out the new stuff early and i am glad that i did. This community is fantastic and i have been here since the doors opened in 2011.

[Lizarus-Rajal]

Firstly it is nice being able to work towards specific items.

 

However reading PTS changes and trying to process it all - it feels like gearing is now THE game. Everything else is there to get more gear. I don't know maybe in game things will make sense, but all of this looks to me like overly complicated to me. I have never really cared about the gear beyong having it good enough to play content I cared for / loved playing. Now? I hate being one of those "I will unsub" guys, but I do feel like that - I will play through onslought story content and probably stop playing after that.

 

This gearing doesn't look fun to me, doesn't look like something that feels rewarding or like an achievement. It's just thrown around like candy and overly complex to boot.

 

just me 2c

 

Yeah, same. I've more or less been subbed since the game first released aside from a period of time where I decided not to. And honestly I started the game because of the story. My gear in any MMO I've played (WoW, STO, etc) has never been my focal point. I suck at even picking the right gear. The only reason I'm even somewhat actively playing at the moment is the guild I'm in. This is why I hope that after Onslaught they try to focus on what the game USED to be about. The story.

[EricMusco]

I'm interested in knowing when the PTS will be available again. I liked the work done with the items and the UI! I subbed just to try out the new stuff early and i am glad that i did. This community is fantastic and i have been here since the doors opened in 2011.

 

We were hoping to have PTS up today but ran into an issue. We are currently looking good for tomorrow though! I will provide more details tomorrow.

 

-eric

[OlBuzzard]

edited ..

 

deleted …

 

done !!

Edited September 27, 2019 by OlBuzzard

[-Highsteel-]

Here is how this all reads to me.

 

Hello fellow SW Old Republicans, we are sorry that we wasted so much of our time and resources on that failed, "Not to be named other game". We would like to apologize, as we have abandoned you for so long as you waited here patiently though our ups and downs - Ben Irving downs - big oof. So we would like to pay you back by introducing heavily laden, convoluted, (RNG is Fun) gearing system with a little bit a content thrown in as we get our S**T together.

 

Now I have stuck around in the past regardless, cause misery loves company, but I do ask you one thing. Along the way as I'm grinding out gear, if by chance I find a way to gear myself out quickly. Example: Master Mode Chapter 1 - Please don't nerf them this time. I'm going to stick around afterwards, don't worry.

[FlameYOL]

We were hoping to have PTS up today but ran into an issue. We are currently looking good for tomorrow though! I will provide more details tomorrow.

 

-eric

 

Thanks for the update, hopefully its up today so we can get to testing the new changes.

[responsiblet]

i know sometimes on the test server some dev data makes it in there inevitably and hoses things up, pushing a new copy of the database takes a while, i can't imagine on that scale. On a small scale it's like 15 minutes, multiply that times millions more users and tables. Eve uses redis. just sayin, they moved off of oracle.

[olagatonjedi]

While im not thrilled that the amount of RNG has been reduced from PTS, i think its great and necessary for balance. The game NEEDS to have RNG as a major part of the loot system. I honestly like the thrill of the hunt. My kids like those surprise packs toys as well, which is what i equate RNG to. My time in game is for fun, not necessarily target locked on loot. And i hinestly think imbalance occurs when players that are fortunate enough to have more playtime can gear out faster than lesser-playtime players, so there absolutely needs to be a gate on loot acquisition. RNG is the best gate because its not a finite gate, but does encourage (not require) more playtime and activity.

 

The more RNG, the better, imo. I know at least 946 other players who feel similarly, so im sure many others do as well.

[Darev]

While im not thrilled that the amount of RNG has been reduced from PTS, i think its great and necessary for balance. The game NEEDS to have RNG as a major part of the loot system. I honestly like the thrill of the hunt. My kids like those surprise packs toys as well, which is what i equate RNG to. My time in game is for fun, not necessarily target locked on loot. And i hinestly think imbalance occurs when players that are fortunate enough to have more playtime can gear out faster than lesser-playtime players, so there absolutely needs to be a gate on loot acquisition. RNG is the best gate because its not a finite gate, but does encourage (not require) more playtime and activity.

 

The more RNG, the better, imo. I know at least 946 other players who feel similarly, so im sure many others do as well.

 

Well, you're in luck. I just logged in and honestly don't see much difference involving the RNG from the vendor next to Kai Zykken (the one that gives you random pieces for the slot of your choice). I still got stuff beneath my gear level. I did get ONLY blaster pistols on my gunslinger, both main and off hands...I guess that's an improvement from the last time I was on PTS.

 

I did see the Smuggler specific gear vendor in the adjacent room. Exactly as advertised, specific tacticals - no RNG...and specific (empty) shells. No real difference there from the original incarnation of Kai Zykken since the shell type itself was never RNG...just the mods in it. Now....no more mods...just empty shells at a higher cost.

[Darev]

So...after my very quick initial testing, and I'm going to be comparing PTS for 6.0 (version 1) to what was just released...skipping the incremental changes...

 

I took a toon from 70 to 75 via the terminal on Odessen.

Clicked to 500 million credits

Went to my stronghold and equipped all 306 gear except main/offhand blasters

 

Started with three stacks of 9999 stims to deconstruct for free tech fragments.

 

It took 5-6 sets to get 306 blaster pistols, and that was after I just started ripping out the 306 modifiers (barrels / mods / enhancements) as I got them. I didn't even try to wait until the RNG overlord gave me something with full 306 guts.

 

Then I went to the next room and got two empty shells from the set bonus vendor. No "guts" there, just empty shells...(as I predicted / suspected).

 

I paid 3k tech fragments and 1 million credits....each....for 1 tactical and 2 empty shells....bracer / legs

 

Then I went back to the slot machine vendor (my new name for it) Nitoo (I'm on pub side on my gunslinger)

 

To get the stuff to fill 1 bracer and 1 leg slot...here's what it took....at 300 tech fragments each time.

 

6 spins of the armoring slot machine to get two Versatile armorings.

Tank / Tank / DPS / Tank / Tank / DPS

 

5 spins of the MOD slot machine to get two DPS mods

Tank / DPS / Tank / Tank / DPS

 

5 spins of the Enhancement slot machine to get ONE DPS enhancement

 

Tank / Heal (alacrity) / Tank / Heal (alacrity) / DPS (accuracy)

 

Oh...and I forgot...I bought a helmet also, but ripped the mods out of the helmet I had to put in the new one...so nothing there except spending 3k more tech frags for fun

 

So while there are certainly better options and better chances at improvement compared to what we started with...for a method that was promised to be RNG protection....there is still a large amount of RNG in JUST THIS ONE VENDOR.

 

it is supposed to be a vendor, right?

 

 

Oh...I spent 5855 stims' worth of tech fragments to do that.

 

I'm ending with 1200 tech fragments.

I started with 3k

3k tech frags per 810 stims (roughly)

I RE'd 7 stacks of stims

That's 21000 tech fragments

+ 3000 that I started with

24000 total available to spend

ending with 1200

 

 

I needed 22800 tech frags for a dozen weapons

1 each tactical / bracer / legs / helmet

16 spins to equip the bracer / legs.

 

All of this is STARTING at all 306 gear (except for the two blasters)

Edited September 25, 2019 by Darev

[Jdast]

So...after my very quick initial testing, and I'm going to be comparing PTS for 6.0 (version 1) to what was just released...skipping the incremental changes...

 

I took a toon from 70 to 75 via the terminal on Odessen.

Clicked to 500 million credits

Went to my stronghold and equipped all 306 gear except main/offhand blasters

 

Started with three stacks of 9999 stims to deconstruct for free tech fragments.

 

It took 5-6 sets to get 306 blaster pistols, and that was after I just started ripping out the 306 modifiers (barrels / mods / enhancements) as I got them. I didn't even try to wait until the RNG overlord gave me something with full 306 guts.

 

Then I went to the next room and got two empty shells from the set bonus vendor. No "guts" there, just empty shells...(as I predicted / suspected).

 

I paid 3k tech fragments and 1 million credits....each....for 1 tactical and 2 empty shells....bracer / legs

 

Then I went back to the slot machine vendor (my new name for it) Nitoo (I'm on pub side on my gunslinger)

 

To get the stuff to fill 1 bracer and 1 leg slot...here's what it took....at 300 tech fragments each time.

 

6 spins of the armoring slot machine to get two Versatile armorings.

Tank / Tank / DPS / Tank / Tank / DPS

 

5 spins of the MOD slot machine to get two DPS mods

Tank / DPS / Tank / Tank / DPS

 

5 spins of the Enhancement slot machine to get ONE DPS enhancement

 

Tank / Heal (alacrity) / Tank / Heal (alacrity) / DPS (accuracy)

 

Oh...and I forgot...I bought a helmet also, but ripped the mods out of the helmet I had to put in the new one...so nothing there except spending 3k more tech frags for fun

 

So while there are certainly better options and better chances at improvement compared to what we started with...for a method that was promised to be RNG protection....there is still a large amount of RNG in JUST THIS ONE VENDOR.

 

it is supposed to be a vendor, right?

 

 

Oh...I spent 5855 stims' worth of tech fragments to do that.

 

I'm ending with 1200 tech fragments.

I started with 3k

3k tech frags per 810 stims (roughly)

I RE'd 7 stacks of stims

That's 21000 tech fragments

+ 3000 that I started with

24000 total available to spend

ending with 1200

 

 

I needed 22800 tech frags for a dozen weapons

1 each tactical / bracer / legs / helmet

16 spins to equip the bracer / legs.

 

All of this is STARTING at all 306 gear (except for the two blasters)

 

 

TL;DR: If Darev wants a Diet Coke, he wants to go to the vendor and get a friggin Diet Coke -- not one who says...

 

Insert your money. You'll get a Coke product, but damned if I can tell you if it will be a Diet Coke, a Coke, a Cherry Coke, a New Coke, etc.

 

Darev is right with respect to where we are now with Mods. The whole point of Tak is that she offers a SPECIFIC item at a higher cost. But now the RNG factor is still there (despite the discipline limitation) AND they still have the Tech Fragment costs out of whack and the 3000 limitation is absurd on its face.

 

Dasty

Edited September 26, 2019 by Jdast

[Darev]

TL;DR: If Darev wants a Diet Coke, he wants to go to the vendor and get a friggin Diet Coke -- not one who says...

 

Insert your money. You'll get a Coke product, but damned if I can tell you if it will be a Diet Coke, a Coke, a Cherry Coke, a New Coke, etc.

 

Darev is right. The whole point of Tak is that she offers a SPECIFIC item at a higher cost. But now the RNG factor is still there (despite the discipline limitation) AND they still have the Tech Fragment costs out of whack and the 3000 limitation is absurd on its face.

 

Dasty

 

Have you seen THE RIGHT STUFF as often as I have?

 

I can't think of a better movie about humanity's space exploration.