Acquisition Changes: Next PTS Patch

[TrixxieTriss]

Deconstructing and Tech fragments

 

I’ve deconstructed about 250 items (give or take).

Both whole armour pieces, whole weapons, armour and weapons with the internals ripped out and done separately. This includes all lvl of gear from 268 to 306.

I also ran the same test with ear, implants and relics.

 

There is so much data that I’m not going to post it all as it’s 2am here. So I’ll summarise a bit.

Deconstructing has its very own form of RNG to get tech frags

 

Here is an example :

I deconstruct 4 chests and get the following tech frag drops -

268 chest - 4, 4, 4, 3,

298 chest - 12, 5, 5, 4,

304 chest - 5, 5, 8, 6,

306 chest - 5, 5, 5, 4,

 

I repeated these test on every item you can deconstruct and got similar results. ie, all over the place. There is no standard number of fragments per item type or item lvl.

 

I decided to then rip out the internals of the main and off hand weapons.

And to compare them properly, I also kept some weapons whole and made sure they all had the same lvl hilt, mod, enhancement.

 

Here is an example of 4 whole light sabres

288 - 4x whole weapons 9, 4, 6, 4 = 23 total tech frags

 

Here is an example of Pulled internals from 4 light sabres

288 - 4 x hilts - 4, 4, 9, 12 = 29

288 - 4x Mods - 9, 4, 4, 9 = 26

288 - 4x Enhance - 9, 9, 12, 4 = 34

From the same 4 weapons I got = 89 total tech frags

 

As you can clearly see. You get more tech frags from pulling the internals out to deconstruct.

But you can also see that the same items deconstructing to get tech frags are still completely RNG

 

I repeated this experiment right up to and including 306 armour sets and weapons with both internals and seperate.

Conclusion is this is yet another layer of RNG hidden under the already bad RNG.

 

 

RNG vendor for DPS specs drop more tank items than DPS items. It’s completely crazy. (I took a picture that I’ll post when I wake up to show what I mean).

 

To gear 3 DPS characters with 306 Armouring, mods and enhancements.

Each one costs 300 tech frags.

 

Which requires :

21 versatile armour

21 lethal mods

21 crit, accuracy or alacrity enhancements

63 x 300 = 18,900 tech frags

 

But in trying to get those, I often got tanks ones instead

12 resistive armouring

24 warding mods

19 bulwark enhancements

5 steadfast enhancements

60 x 300 = 18,000 tech frags

 

Basically it cost me 36,900 tech frags instead of 18,900 tech frags because the vendor wasn’t dropping them for my spec.

 

I don’t really mind the RNG on what type of lethal mod or versatile armour I get. I don’t even really mind if I’m getting Accuracy enhancements if I’m after crit.

What I do mind is getting the wrong type of gear altogether for my spec.

There is already enough RNG on the individual types of the same mods, etc.

ie, I think lethal mods have about 9 different types that can drop?

 

Boss Drops

So I’m not getting sideways gearing at lvl 306, I’m getting 300 or worse, 298 gear that isn’t even mod’able. And once again I’m getting more tanks spec drops for whole dps groups than dps drops.

 

I’m too tired to go much more into it now. But I can say there is still away to go to make this system work properly.

Please don’t go live without addressing all of these issues.

 

The system will be good and enjoyable (IMO), IF you can get these things fixed and do away with the massive amount of RNG that isn’t needed.

Do we really need RNG on our deconstruction for tech frags?

 

I would prefer the RNG be removed from the vendor, but if you are dead set on keeping it, you need to make sure you can guarantee that gear drops based on your spec (No more tank drops for dps please).

[Raansu]

Ya if that RNG vendor among all the other RNG stuff goes live I'll be done with the game. I'm at the point now where I'm just tired of BW's crap. They either listen to us and remove the RNG or they don't and I just peace out and never giving them any more opportunities. Years of playing this game will be gone. Screw them. Edited September 30, 2019 by Raansu

[TrixxieTriss]

Ya if that RNG vendor among all the other RNG stuff goes live I'll be done with the game. I'm at the point now where I'm just tired of BW's crap. They either listen to us and remove the RNG or they don't and I just peace out and never giving them any more opportunities. Years of playing this game will be gone. Screw them.

 

I don’t mind the RNG on the Mods or Armor as long as you can choose the type, ie, Choose a lethal mod and the RNG drops you one of the 9 available.

There is also the amplifiers on each item that a fully RNG. So you might get the same mod, but the amps will be different.

I don’t mind that either as long as they put a cap on the amount rerolling the amps costs, I spent half a billon credits trying to get an amp I wanted on a specific mod (of course I wouldn’t do that in live). So that definitely needs fixing so it caps out the cost at about 30,000 to reroll an amp.

Edited September 30, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

[Balameb]

I don’t mind the RNG on the Mods or Armor as long as you can choose the type, ie, Choose a lethal mod and the RNG drops you one of the 9 available.

There is also the amplifiers on each item that a fully RNG. So you might get the same mod, but the amps will be different.

I don’t mind that either as long as they put a cap on the amount rerolling the amps costs, I spent half a billon credits trying to get an amp I wanted on a specific mod (of course I wouldn’t do that in live). So that definitely needs fixing so it caps out the cost at about 30,000 to reroll an amp.

I personally (*) do not like the 9 variations of each mod. The old 3 were fine. Also having this many variations in enhacements (that already were more) makes RNG exponentially more painfull.

 

And the amplifiers, well i simply don't like the system. Is too far away from what i thought it would be. I get the credit sink, game need those but this is just RNG sink. I prefer credit sinks in QoL or in gear like it is for direct sales of set pieces and tacticals. If they lower the TF cost and the RNG some more(less variations), i wouldn't mind they adding a little credit cost for each box.

I would like the amps be removed entirely, Not happening? then make them fixed "stat"; so the the only RNG variations are the kind of amplifier and not how much of a modification they provide. Its not like it would make them too easy, there are really a lot of them. And having some for crafting would make people target multiple sets for them. Still a huge dump of credits.

 

(*) I'm not saying its bad to have variations, i just don't like them. So, forgetting they make RNG worst, maybe there are people that like those variations, but as far as i have seen in the feedback it not like we have people happy with them. We used to have only 3 (unlettered, A and B) and one of those was mostly ignored, so where more actually needed?

[Lhancelot]

so were more actually needed?

 

I personally (*) do not like the 9 variations of each mod. The old 3 were fine. Also having this many variations in enhacements (that already were more) makes RNG exponentially more painful.

 

You answered your own question.

 

It's 100% deliberate to water down the rewards so RNG is even more effective at stretching out the gearing process to make it as slow as possible. More variables means more stuff you will get through RNG you won't want or need.

[Raansu]

I don’t mind the RNG on the Mods or Armor as long as you can choose the type, ie, Choose a lethal mod and the RNG drops you one of the 9 available.

There is also the amplifiers on each item that a fully RNG. So you might get the same mod, but the amps will be different.

I don’t mind that either as long as they put a cap on the amount rerolling the amps costs, I spent half a billon credits trying to get an amp I wanted on a specific mod (of course I wouldn’t do that in live). So that definitely needs fixing so it caps out the cost at about 30,000 to reroll an amp.

 

I don't mind the type of RNG we had years ago because it didn't feel like a waste of time. What we had years ago was perfectly fine. You knew exactly which end boss dropped which unassembled gear token and could take that token to buy exactly what you wanted on top of getting a secondary currency from other bosses who did drop random pieces of gear as well and you could again buy exactly what you wanted from the vendor.

 

This whole running the same content 30 times and getting tank gear in dps spec and getting ilvl gear lower than your current ilvl and then the "RNG protection vendor" is STILL RNG and the tech fragments on disassembly as you have shown to also be inconsistent on how much you get on top of the RNG amplifiers which just scream "I only exist as a money sink to solve the inflation bloat we created with the cartel market." .....Between galactic command and now "spoils of war" I'm just over it. I'm sick and tired of the developers repeating the same mistake and completely ignoring the fan base.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Raansu

[TrixxieTriss]

I personally (*) do not like the 9 variations of each mod. The old 3 were fine. Also having this many variations in enhacements (that already were more) makes RNG exponentially more painfull.

 

And the amplifiers, well i simply don't like the system. Is too far away from what i thought it would be. I get the credit sink, game need those but this is just RNG sink. I prefer credit sinks in QoL or in gear like it is for direct sales of set pieces and tacticals. If they lower the TF cost and the RNG some more(less variations), i wouldn't mind they adding a little credit cost for each box.

I would like the amps be removed entirely, Not happening? then make them fixed "stat"; so the the only RNG variations are the kind of amplifier and not how much of a modification they provide. Its not like it would make them too easy, there are really a lot of them. And having some for crafting would make people target multiple sets for them. Still a huge dump of credits.

 

(*) I'm not saying its bad to have variations, i just don't like them. So, forgetting they make RNG worst, maybe there are people that like those variations, but as far as i have seen in the feedback it not like we have people happy with them. We used to have only 3 (unlettered, A and B) and one of those was mostly ignored, so where more actually needed?

 

I would prefer the old 3 mods too. I just don’t think they are going to let go of the RNG, so if they have to have some form of RNG, what I’m suggesting might be a more reasonable compromise than having everything RNG,

 

It’s also obvious to me as well that many of these mechanics are designed as credit sinks. Not that the game doesn’t need them, but I don’t think they should be tied so much into the gearing system. Not many causals have a few hundred million to drop here and there. If they want to tax the whales, then give them some QOL or bling options like you mentioned.

[ottffsse]

Takanna purchases give you at least 40-50% of pieces in the wrong spec ...tank stuff (blue mods etc) if you are deeps/heals and deeps stuff (red) if you are tank. It is really frustrating.

[TrixxieTriss]

Takanna purchases give you at least 40-50% of pieces in the wrong spec ...tank stuff (blue mods etc) if you are deeps/heals and deeps stuff (red) if you are tank. It is really frustrating.

 

I had 9 offhand generators/shields drop in a row for my Merc instead of a gun.

I had 6 warding mods drop in a row for my sage

Plus many other instances of similar situations.

 

That needs fixing ASAP. You should never get tank gear if you are dps / heals and you should only get off hand drops specific for your class.

Edited October 1, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

[TrixxieTriss]

Deconstructing and Tech fragments

 

RNG vendor for DPS specs drop more tank items than DPS items. It’s completely crazy. (I took a picture that I’ll post when I wake up to show what I mean).

 

To gear 3 DPS characters with 306 Armouring, mods and enhancements.

Each one costs 300 tech frags.

 

Which requires :

21 versatile armour

21 lethal mods

21 crit, accuracy or alacrity enhancements

63 x 300 = 18,900 tech frags

 

But in trying to get those, I often got tanks ones instead

12 resistive armouring

24 warding mods

19 bulwark enhancements

5 steadfast enhancements

60 x 300 = 18,000 tech frags

 

Basically it cost me 36,900 tech frags instead of 18,900 tech frags because the vendor wasn’t dropping them for my spec.

 

I don’t really mind the RNG on what type of lethal mod or versatile armour I get. I don’t even really mind if I’m getting Accuracy enhancements if I’m after crit.

What I do mind is getting the wrong type of gear altogether for my spec.

There is already enough RNG on the individual types of the same mods, etc.

ie, I think lethal mods have about 9 different types that can drop?

 

 

https://imgur.com/gallery/EXoohUz

Here’s a pic of the strong hold tank stuff I picked up. I had already used some of it in deconstructing, but you can clearly see I got way too much while trying to get DPS gear.

[TrixxieTriss]

One thing I would like to add so there is some perspective that I don’t think has been fully voiced by the players.

 

With the unlimited funds and access to unlimited tech frags on the PTS, the RNG is still tedious, time consuming and frustrating when getting the wrong drops for your class. ie tank stuff for dps. Or how horizontal gearing still isnt working properly, ie, getting much lower grade items or incorrect spec items for your class.

Then you have the RNG or more like “slot machine gambling” on the amplifiers.

Crafting is extremely broken and overly expensive in types of mats and costs to craft (if converting).

 

Imagine how much worse this is going to be when it goes live and people don’t have unlimited funds or tech fragments to just sit and play RNG lotto.

How many players have or will be able to obtain millions apon millions of credits?

How many people will be able to get enough fragments to gear up (especially when you consider deconstructing items give you so few fragments compared to what they cost).

How many people are going to be excluded from crafting because they can’t get the mats?

 

I think by now, most of the testers have come to realise you have some rather massive credit sinks under this design, besides all the RNG.

What I’m not sure you are grasping is those credit sinks and the RNG on RNG on RNG will affect your casual players the most. Those that can least afford what you are doing will likely move away from the game because of frustration.

While those credit “whales” you should be targeting won’t be affected at all.

The increased cost of crafting and the inflation it will cause will actually make those whales even richer.

 

You are creating an environment that will actually encourage people to buy credits from third party sites and encouraging others to stop playing the game.

 

I know you still have things you are changing, but I feel I need to say this so you understand the gravity of the situation if you don’t take bigger steps. Small steps are good to fine tune. But you aren’t at that stage yet. There are still too many things IMO that need more work before fine tuning is all that needs doing.

3 weeks may not be enough if you continue this softly, softly approach to tweak stuff. I feel some bolder steps maybe required for the next pts iteration.

 

Thank you for listening to our feed back.

Edited October 1, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

[KendraP]

@Trixxie

 

You are so delightfully optimistic. Of course 3 weeks isn't enough time, of course they're not going to make massive changes or gut anything 3 weeks before launch, and of course the launch will have massive bugs. That is, at this point, part of playing SWTOR. It's like we pay them to be disappointed month after month because star wars.

 

And to Musco, just to reiterate, my negativity is not coming from a lack of reading comprehension, thanks.

Edited October 1, 2019 by KendraP

[olagatonjedi]

Ultimately the very obvious rule of thumb that im seeing with 6.0 is that active PLAYers will benefit from the system, while those who dont PLAY (dont log in, or just log into socialize and not PLAY/participate) will not benefit. Play your way - operative word being PLAY, not YOUR.

 

This seems to be true for PVE, PVP, ops, fps, amd crafters. You dont participate, you dont give yourself opportunities to accumulate the gear, mats, or renown boxes.

 

Pretty simple to understand, and appropriately applied within the system. The majority of population will benefit from the system. None of the systems appear broken. Perhaps they dont mesh with certain individualistic expectations, but they arent broken. Get online, be active, be productive, and participate - you will reap the spoils of war.

Edited October 1, 2019 by olagatonjedi

[TrixxieTriss]

Ultimately the very obvious rule of thumb that im seeing with 6.0 is that active PLAYers will benefit from the system, while those who dont PLAY (dont log in, or just log into socialize and not PLAY/participate) will not benefit. Play your way - operative word being PLAY, not YOUR.

 

This seems to be true for PVE, PVP, ops, fps, amd crafters. You dont participate, you dont give yourself opportunities to accumulate the gear, mats, or renown boxes.

 

Pretty simple to understand, and appropriately applied within the system. The majority of population will benefit from the system. None of the systems appear broken. Perhaps they dont mesh with certain individualistic expectations, but they arent broken. Get online, be active, be productive, and participate - you will reap the spoils of war.

 

LoL, if you actually spent a reasonable amount of time on the PTS and provided substantial feed back to the team, you might have validity in your sniping. But you are just stirring the pot with zero input with facts or testing.

If you just want to snipe at people, go do it in the general section to play with peoples hearts and minds. The pts isn’t the place to be doing that.

[Balameb]

If you just want to snipe at people, go do it in the general section to play with peoples hearts and minds. The pts isn’t the place to be doing that.

If you smell troll, best solution is ignore feature. If you also think its particularly trying to push your buttons, then better report it. Trolling is against the Rules of Conduct of this site.

[TrixxieTriss]

All the tank drops tonight from the RNG vendor just trying to gear the right side of my sniper.

https://imgur.com/gallery/9taoIOo

 

As you can see, they still aren’t dropping the right gear for the right class or spec because no agent class is a tank. So there is no excuse for them to drop “by mistake” for a dps only class

[Raansu]

All the tank drops tonight from the RNG vendor just trying to gear the right side of my sniper.

https://imgur.com/gallery/9taoIOo

 

As you can see, they still aren’t dropping the right gear for the right class or spec because no agent class is a tank. So there is no excuse for them to drop “by mistake” for a dps only class

 

Ya was getting tank stuff for my sentinel.....A class that doesn't have a tank spec. This system is a broken mess.

[EricMusco]

All the tank drops tonight from the RNG vendor just trying to gear the right side of my sniper.

https://imgur.com/gallery/9taoIOo

 

As you can see, they still aren’t dropping the right gear for the right class or spec because no agent class is a tank. So there is no excuse for them to drop “by mistake” for a dps only class

 

We are working on changing that now (DPS drops no longer having +defense). If you catch any other weird drops for specs please let us know.

 

That change is in process along with a few others around acquisition. Example, we are raising the Tech Fragment cap to 5,000 (up from 3,000). I will work on sharing full details with our next PTS patch which is targeting tomorrow.

 

Thanks!

 

-eric

[Balameb]

That change is in process along with a few others around acquisition. Example, we are raising the Tech Fragment cap to 5,000 (up from 3,000).

Are numbers now on strike?

We got huge numbers for lots of other non required things. But maker forbids puting a proper number to TF cap.

Small cap will only force people to waste TF before they are ready to spend. That will also force people to constantly go to fleet interrupting their play. Let people spend when they want or need to and not because they are constantly hitting the cap.

[DarthBatemanJ]

We are working on changing that now (DPS drops no longer having +defense). If you catch any other weird drops for specs please let us know.

 

That change is in process along with a few others around acquisition. Example, we are raising the Tech Fragment cap to 5,000 (up from 3,000). I will work on sharing full details with our next PTS patch which is targeting tomorrow.

 

Thanks!

 

-eric

 

I hope you missed a zero or two

[xSssoulx]

We are working on changing that now (DPS drops no longer having +defense). If you catch any other weird drops for specs please let us know.

 

That change is in process along with a few others around acquisition. Example, we are raising the Tech Fragment cap to 5,000 (up from 3,000). I will work on sharing full details with our next PTS patch which is targeting tomorrow.

 

Thanks!

 

-eric

 

5k are we missing digits ? did the prices of the set bonus shells drop down from 3k? cause if it still is same price and cap only goes upto 5k you still have to run to the vendor everytime when you have 3k tech fragments, let us stack up on them so we can buy new things easier instead running to vendor each time when we hit 3k

[RikuvonDrake]

Please increase the cap on tech fragments heavily, 20 000 seems like a reasonable amount or at least motivate why your cautions with increasing the cap.

[Flying-Brian]

That change is in process along with a few others around acquisition. Example, we are raising the Tech Fragment cap to 5,000 (up from 3,000). I will work on sharing full details with our next PTS patch which is targeting tomorrow.

 

Thanks!

 

-eric

 

Eric, please listen to what we have been saying, just remove the cap altogether, like how it used to be with warzone commendations. Or make it high enough where players won't have to stop in the middle of whatever they are doing when they hit the cap, to run to a vendor and buy enough items, that they can go back and finish the content they are on, so that any bonus from there are not lost.

 

With the very limited cap you have, players are just going to be forced to buy set bonus shells for 3k tech fragments, and put them in holding to rotate, return, and rebuy. Just like players used to have to do with warzone weapons so that commendations (now tech fragments) could be saved and used when needed.

[Jdast]

We are working on changing that now (DPS drops no longer having +defense). If you catch any other weird drops for specs please let us know.

 

That change is in process along with a few others around acquisition. Example, we are raising the Tech Fragment cap to 5,000 (up from 3,000). I will work on sharing full details with our next PTS patch which is targeting tomorrow.

 

Thanks!

 

-eric

 

Eric,

 

This is nothing more than a very thinly disguised ploy to force us to play the slot machine. I understand there can be a disconnect between devs and community managers, but your statement...

 

If you don't get the thing you want, go to the vendor and buy it. It is just that simple.

-eric

 

is highly misleading. It isn't just that simple. We have to hope the vendors give us what we want. Upon reaching cap, assuming we've bought the shells we want -- all paths lead us to play the RNG mod slot machine.

 

Grr...

 

Dasty

Edited October 2, 2019 by Jdast

[Pandoras_Jar]

we are raising the Tech Fragment cap to 5,000 (up from 3,000).

 

5000... 5000?!??!!!?

 

How generous!

 

I'm assuming the Tech Fragment costs of all items on all the vendors are being reduced to compensate for such a generous cap?

 

But seriously, (for those who don't get sarcasm) this isn't good enough. The cap needs to be doubled at the absolute minimum and all vendor item costs need to be reduced.