Tank Shielding Changes Coming in 5.9.2

[Rafiknoll]

Lol.I am sorry (not really),but this is hilarious. Do you have any clue what you are talking about?

Do you have any idea what this kind of change would require? Pvp mechanics, utilities that rely on armor, passives that increase armor by x% amount, passives that increase armor penetration by x% amount (carnage has it's core ability revolving around bypassing armor for example), :confused:literally every single defensive cooldown in the game, several set bonuses:confused:, all that would need to be reworked based on your idea .

So basically your idea of fixing tanks is to...make a new game from scratch i guess?

 

You got a reservation for the worst ideas ever Hall of Fame thread i suppose.

 

Eagerly waithing for your wall of text reply,

 

You would make far less fun of yourself if you at least attempted to conceal your unreasonable hatred to reason (or is it math, this time?).

 

I am well aware of what this will mean. It will do EXACTLY as I said it would, it would increase TTK of all characters. It would diminish the survivability difference between heavy armored DPS, light armored DPS and skanks, and yes, I a side product would mean that while 100% penetration or I/E attacks will deal the same damage as they deal now, the other attacks will deal more.

 

Now indulge me, name ONE DCD and one set-bonus which is referring to armor (NOT damage reduction, A-R-M-O-R. Damage reduction is not entirely dependant on armor and ALL damage reducing DCDs refer to "damage reduction", not to armor. Maybe the exceptions I can think of are the old tank adrenals which nobody uses and a passive you get from healers when they use a certain ability on you, and they never use it for the sake of the passive anyway...

Not to mention a lot of the DCDs are about avoidance of the attack rather than mitigation (example: force shroud), or absorption of damage (static barrier) or reflects, or self-heals, or heal-on-damage, or stealth...

And now, by the way, list all set bonuses which increase armor or armor penetration.

... Define "Literally" please?

 

Practically the only things that are affected are a few passives which now increase/reduce less damage (but for example, the operative's 5% damage reducing utility and his %3 per probe utility will not be affected at all by the change), the "sunder" buff will make a smaller change because the difference between with and without it will be less significant, but it will still increase damage, and the armor penetration passive or active abilities will increase damage from the normal state by less, but just because the normal state got increased, not such a loss and it not such a nerf for these classes. Also since I am referring to player damage only, it has 0% impact on PVE, unlike many changes some people here are suggesting, so this change is among the changes that require the least changes to other mechanics. In fact, it requires zero.

[giorgo]

You would make far less fun of yourself if you at least attempted to conceal your unreasonable hatred to reason (or is it math, this time?).

 

I am well aware of what this will mean. It will do EXACTLY as I said it would, it would increase TTK of all characters. It would diminish the survivability difference between heavy armored DPS, light armored DPS and skanks, and yes, I a side product would mean that while 100% penetration or I/E attacks will deal the same damage as they deal now, the other attacks will deal more.

 

Now indulge me, name ONE DCD and one set-bonus which is referring to armor (NOT damage reduction, A-R-M-O-R. Damage reduction is not entirely dependant on armor and ALL damage reducing DCDs refer to "damage reduction", not to armor. Maybe the exceptions I can think of are the old tank adrenals which nobody uses and a passive you get from healers when they use a certain ability on you, and they never use it for the sake of the passive anyway...

Not to mention a lot of the DCDs are about avoidance of the attack rather than mitigation (example: force shroud), or absorption of damage (static barrier) or reflects, or self-heals, or heal-on-damage, or stealth...

And now, by the way, list all set bonuses which increase armor or armor penetration.

... Define "Literally" please?

 

Practically the only things that are affected are a few passives which now increase/reduce less damage (but for example, the operative's 5% damage reducing utility and his %3 per probe utility will not be affected at all by the change), the "sunder" buff will make a smaller change because the difference between with and without it will be less significant, but it will still increase damage, and the armor penetration passive or active abilities will increase damage from the normal state by less, but just because the normal state got increased, not such a loss and it not such a nerf for these classes. Also since I am referring to player damage only, it has 0% impact on PVE, unlike many changes some people here are suggesting, so this change is among the changes that require the least changes to other mechanics. In fact, it requires zero.

Are you relly trying to argue this?

Defensive cooldowns and tank set bonuses are made with each class armor damage reduction in mind.If that's no longer a factor then everything needs to be reworked.

You still have no understanding what you are suggesting means.Do you know how many passives that increase armor penetration exist in the game?You basically want to give everyone a perma ferocity.The whole combat mechanics have to be reworked,aka a new game.

Your idea is dumb,admit it and move on.Or say nothing and move on.Both will do.The end.

[Rafiknoll]

Are you relly trying to argue this?

Defensive cooldowns and tank set bonuses are made with each class armor damage reduction in mind.If that's no longer a factor then everything needs to be reworked.

You still have no understanding what you are suggesting means.Do you know how many passives that increase armor penetration exist in the game?You basically want to give everyone a perma ferocity.The whole combat mechanics have to be reworked,aka a new game.

Your idea is dumb,admit it and move on.Or say nothing and move on.Both will do.The end.

 

I think you missed the fact I want to scale the effect of armor down (by something like 0.7 or 0.5). It remains a factor.

In the current situation people constantly complain about TTK and survivability differences between classes. The current situation is far from perfect and I don't think altering the main reason to skank superiority will break anything even without additonal changes. As if the current state of all DCDs is ''just perfect'' and it would RUIN THE GAME if some of them mattered a bit more or less. Of course it means a perma nerf to PVP survivability, and that is a welcome outcome.

 

By the way tank set bonuses increase damge reduction (not armor), decrease the CD of taunt and buff a certain DCD which is not about damage reduction (for assassins it is deflection). So they aren't broken and barely feel any difference by this change. DCDs of DR will be less effective but it is fine, considering the changes for crit shielding.

 

In fact, my purposed change is by far less ''altering the entire game'' than the shielding change. Maybe you should direct your hatred at them for doing that instead?

 

P.S: It is customary to use "space" after dots, commas and question marks. I was sure my phone was bugging when I initially read your message...

Edited July 2, 2018 by Rafiknoll

[AdjeYo]

I don't think reducing the effectiveness of armour in pvp will really do what you want it to do, at least as far as bringing down ttk is concerned. Sure people will die faster, but the current ttk issue isn't because of damage reduction, it's because of cooldowns. Without any cooldowns people already drop very fast, so if you want to reduce ttk, you nerf the cooldowns, not just armour. Case in point, Mercs were really really squishy before 5.0 even with heavy armour, then they get some very good cooldowns and suddenly they have massive survivability.

[Lhancelot]

 

My Sage: http://www.swtor.com/leaderboards/character/4611689330592894075

My first Sorc: http://www.swtor.com/leaderboards/character/4611689035381426743

My second Sorc: http://www.swtor.com/leaderboards/character/4611689031953166235

My third sorc (work in progress): http://www.swtor.com/leaderboards/character/4611689632653207283

My operative: http://www.swtor.com/leaderboards/character/4611689645607507707

 

My rating isn't that high to be fair, but I don't cheat, I don't 2v4 boost (unlike some in the group ranked community), I don't backfill, and I don't wintrade. I just queue up.

 

Humblebrag.

[Rafiknoll]

I don't think reducing the effectiveness of armour in pvp will really do what you want it to do, at least as far as bringing down ttk is concerned. Sure people will die faster, but the current ttk issue isn't because of damage reduction, it's because of cooldowns. Without any cooldowns people already drop very fast, so if you want to reduce ttk, you nerf the cooldowns, not just armour. Case in point, Mercs were really really squishy before 5.0 even with heavy armour, then they get some very good cooldowns and suddenly they have massive survivability.

 

It is true but I believe altering all DCDs of all classes (or at least all tankable classes, and in a way which doesn't make squishy DPS even squishier), and doing it in a way so that it is ONLY different in PVP (because we don't want to alter PVE unnecessarily) is more complicated than armor, both for the programmer and the players. We know it is possible to make things different when they target players (all 1min mezzes are an example, and also the whitebar itself, which doesn't fill from NPC abilities at all, and guard, and taunts), so it is easy to make armor matter less only when hit by players. It could even be simpler if they just add it to "PVP trauma" which already exists (and then you would also be able to see the difference if you look, unlike the mezzes which might surprise newbies when they work for 8s rather than 60 because it is not written anywhere...)

However, altering the duration of DCDs while in a PVP area is not a thing we have seen before, and since DCDs are self-casted and not target-oriented, it cannot work differently like guard or stuns can, because the game doesn't know in advance if your DCDs are for players or NPCs. You could theoretically reduce the magnitude of the effect of certain DCDs when attacked by players, and to be honest I think it is a good solution too, but I am not entirely sure it is as easy to program, and how confusing will it be for players (for example, if evasion had only 50% increase to defense in PVP, people who are used to see it as immunity to white damage might be surprised when they die from bolt storm while it is active). Remember I try to avoid altering the currently working PVP system as much as possible (and so did BioWare with the crit change because even the few bosses that can crit do it far less often, don't crit on powerful attacks and don't auto-crit), this is why all the above doesn't consider truly nerfing or buffing any ability.

 

As for the example from mercs: Unlike mercs, the DCDs of tanks are (mostly) not self-heal type, but damage-reduction or damage-avoidance types. So they will feel any damage reduction changes a little more than mercs who are healing-dependant would care. The most notable difference will be between skanks and their DPS counterparts, which will now have a less passive difference, which means a skank without DCDs on will be nearly as squishy as the DPS without DCDs on, which means it will be worthless to skank, unless you are in for short bursts of glory while your DCDs are ready, in which (unlike the DPS) you can't burst as well as the DPS, so to be competitive damage-wise you gotta go for AoE, which means if you are still there once your DCDs are out, you are just as screwed as a foolish DPS who did that, and a single healer will not save you from situations he wouldn't be able to save the DPS. Without DR, skanks are DPS will less damage and more DCDs. I don't think people will use them.

 

Don't get me wrong, I also think several healing DCDs should disappear completely or at least be nerfed, because currently some of the healing DCDs are an all-in-one DCD which grants second life from scratch and a short immunity after that (force barrier with utility: 2nd life with the cost of a virtual self-CC. Merc reflect as it is: 2nd life, reflects and being completely mobile and able to attack for the entire duration, 66% of barrier CD, seriously?). Was just focusing on tank/skank related stuff.

Edited July 2, 2018 by Rafiknoll

[WayOfTheWarriorx]

Ok. Let's play this game then

 

For starters, almost all the players who do group ranked also do regs occasionally, as the group ranked queue doesn't pop the majority of the time unless you're lucky enough to be on Darth Malgus.

 

Now for your second point, you keep saying I don't have "numbers" or "evidence". I'm not sure exactly what you want me to say about this: my initial post was calling you out for not knowing how ranked matchmaking works. If you're looking for evidence as to me playing ranked, here are some numbers for you I guess.

 

My Sage: http://www.swtor.com/leaderboards/character/4611689330592894075

My first Sorc: http://www.swtor.com/leaderboards/character/4611689035381426743

My second Sorc: http://www.swtor.com/leaderboards/character/4611689031953166235

My third sorc (work in progress): http://www.swtor.com/leaderboards/character/4611689632653207283

My operative: http://www.swtor.com/leaderboards/character/4611689645607507707

 

My rating isn't that high to be fair, but I don't cheat, I don't 2v4 boost (unlike some in the group ranked community), I don't backfill, and I don't wintrade. I just queue up.

 

Now, you said I can't tell what kind of player you are, in response to me calling you unqualified to comment on ranked in this game. I've been operating under the assumption that you are the marauder from Star Forge called Grim'alkun, so let's take a look at your "ranked experience" that you claim to have. If this is not you, feel free to post your character's rating like I have done.

Grim'alkun: http://www.swtor.com/leaderboards/character/4611687857000985746

With a whopping 0 wins and two total kills in solo ranked, I feel that I was right in that you don't have the experience to comment on ranked in this game. I've also seen your regs performance, and it was quite disappointing to say the least.

 

As for the dress, I'd love one in blue or yellow

 

What part, of Ranked being a cheat fest and completely devoid of any semblance of being demonstrive of skill didn't you understand?

 

There is a very good reason you found those statistics on me for Ranked, I've done it a total of 3 times. Technically speaking. In all practical terms, I've probably done it 100s of times, the only difference being is that I did it from a reg pop as opposed to a ranked pop. Which is where the difference ends. They are the same exact arenas. It's not like they even look different, or function different. Same exact crap.

 

Hardest contend in the game? Don't make me laugh, its not even remotely hard. I've played harder FPs than that crap.

 

Once again, you find away to try and dance around the call out. Those aren't your personal performance numbers. Those are ranking numbers that speak absolutely nothing about your own personal skill. Rating numbers mean zero. Because things like win-trading, quece syncing, account buying, and hacks all effect rating, so that is why no one, NO ONE, who isn't into the illicit BS backdoor cheating in ranked gives one second's consideration to what Rating says about the individual player, which in all fairness is unfortunate because there are some of the less highly rated people who aren't cheating and that's why they will never get higher standing because they are stand up people who want nothing but what they earn. I give you credit for admitting that you are not "highly rated", but at the same time I don't see how that helps you make a better case.

 

I am telling you straight out and have said it previously, don't use rating to try to make a case because it proves nothing conclusively, even you have to admit that. That's why I said 'personal numbers'.

 

Now, you MAY very well be a better pvper than I am, that really wouldn't suprise me given that I have admitted countless times, I was a Hm/NiM Progression Raider for most of my time in this game. I only got into PVP in like the middle of 4.0 and even than not seriously. I only became a full time PVPer when 5.0 dropped because 5.0 destroyed Raiding in this game. Raid teams closed shop at alarming rates, my team disbanded in the first week. There was no gear in Operations than, so no one was doing them. That's when I got into PVP. So, I'd venture to say you have alot more experience than me at PVP. I'm not even good at objectives. I have said that as well about 1000 times. In huttball I've scored 4 goals total. And I don't mean in one match, I mean cumlatively and I'm including Queshball in that. As far as objectives are concerned, you don't get more suck than me.

 

But that's okay with me, because, quite honestly, I am not much more than street brawler. That isn't to say I ignore objectives or that I don't try and help my team win, I am merely aware of mh shortcomings with objectives and try to play to my strengths and support my group by using combat to assit them in objectives, shotgunning the ball handler, responding to calls of attacks on nodes, attacking enemy nodes, fighting by doors, etc.

 

Now you can say, that you think I am not a good Marauder. That's fine, I don't care, but don't say you think that because you have played with me enough to have formed that opinion. You haven't because it would be impossible to look at my performance and come to the conclusion that I am a bad Marauder. That is different that saying that I think I am a great Marauder or I think I'm the best. I am saying straight out I'm not the best. And as to whether or not I am good or bad, that isn't up to me to decide, no one can make that call about themselves.

 

Once again, I am going to attempt to make my case/point, using evidence. Whatever people will make of the findings they glean from it, is entirely up to them. Now, here is what I would ask of you.

 

If you want to go around saying a player is bad, that's fine, but I know what you are saying about me is nothing but personal and not based on any real experience playing with me.

 

I have made note in the screenies to point out in any WZ where there were other maras and sents [which I tried to emphasis being that you were calling my ability as a Marauder into question so I thought that only appropriate] if making a point of noting the amount of deaths that occurred. I die a lot. But, quite honestly, I am far from the only Marauder than dies a lot. There is no point in making arguments based on anything but performance and numbers. I am pointing out deaths, because it is indicative of my playstyle. I don't see Marauders as being high priority members of a group in WZs. I see them as being the lowest form of life on any battle field. They are not important, they are not critical, they are not to be catered to. Survival is not the priority, killing the enemy to make objectives easier to obtain for others, tieing down enemy forces and stopping people from killing healers should be. That's a personal perspective, that's how I see them.

 

I'm not running, I'm not hiding, I'm not going to make my team have to carry a heavier burdern by running and hiding and waiting to come out of combat to use out of combat heals only to than have to make my way back to wherever the fighting is now, having left my time to carry my weight for a minute + because I was too much of a coward to risking dieing. That's just me though, I don't hold other views against others if they choose to play it safe. That's just not for me.

 

Here's 40 screenies. I'd be happy to share 100 more for you to use as evidence in the future to call me bad.

You might consider meeting fire with fire and stop hiding behind rating. You might think people who only play regs means they are inferior players, I don't. They can't hide behind rating, their "Rating" in the form of opinions of others comes only from one thing, the numbers. Which should be the only factor that matters for such purposes.

I'f I'm bad, I'm bad. The numbers don't lie and what's more, they aren't even for anyone to form an opinion about themselves, it's not for us to decide how good or bad we are, that's for other's to decide. A lesson you and your pals who are "the best" and "should be listened to" have yet to learn. Even if you are "the best", that doesn't make you are any less of a douche.

 

One last thing. Kendra, is 3 times the PVPer I am, don't put me in the same category as him. He's better than I am.

 

P.S. - Keep trying to report me as part of your tactics against me like I don't know it's you or one of your merry band of 'bests'. How very Brave.

 

These are all from within the last 4 weeks.

 

https://ibb.co/kFWebd

https://ibb.co/fUA5Gd

https://ibb.co/jQa5Gd

https://ibb.co/dHJ32J

https://ibb.co/dAMO2J

https://ibb.co/jrUzbd

https://ibb.co/k2TE9y

https://ibb.co/fw9bNJ

https://ibb.co/duEnUy

https://ibb.co/jjrebd

https://ibb.co/ns7wNJ

https://ibb.co/bUeXwd

https://ibb.co/hZhKbd

https://ibb.co/cfKbNJ

https://ibb.co/cLfi2J

https://ibb.co/cDUMpy

https://ibb.co/hk6ebd

https://ibb.co/hk6ebd

https://ibb.co/nfwvGd

https://ibb.co/jiE49y

https://ibb.co/nygj9y

https://ibb.co/iNP49y

https://ibb.co/d8aBpy

https://ibb.co/d8MUbd

https://ibb.co/eCdmNJ

https://ibb.co/eq66NJ

https://ibb.co/bXz49y

https://ibb.co/mKAY2J

https://ibb.co/b3R6NJ

https://ibb.co/gLZt2J

https://ibb.co/nH3mNJ

https://ibb.co/cHpt2J

https://ibb.co/eyuhwd

https://ibb.co/iaixUy

https://ibb.co/kYxP9y

https://ibb.co/cTOLhJ

https://ibb.co/e2kBpy

https://ibb.co/m8gj9y

https://ibb.co/iDb6NJ

https://ibb.co/ge39bd

Edited July 2, 2018 by WayOfTheWarriorx

[SlimeyDoom]

Lol. Grim, you can call all ranked players cheaters all you want. It won't improve your lackluster marauder gameplay, and it's not like anyone respects the opinion of some trashy regstar mara with a loud mouth on the forums. No point in tryingto educate fools, I guess.

[KendraP]

@Grim my friend, I'm afraid we are in the same category. I, too, found the little bit of ranked I played to be full of playing the system. Its not hard to do; merely do a who search to see who is playing arenas at that moment.

 

I was never a NiM raider, my ops experience is limited to HM.

 

But us convincing our ranked overlords their rank is meaningless because of the cheaters, dodgers, and system-gamers is not happening.

 

I suggest we all admit warzones and arenas have fundamentally different tactics and move along. Arenas are all about killing the other team faster, and since many games go to acid already, I can understand the frustration with ttk. Warzones are not; they are about playing objectives, that is, thinking tactically to out maneuver the opposing team. A team of inferior numbers but greater tactical planning can beat a numerically superior opponent

[Lhancelot]

You guys take these discussions too seriously. I fail to see why gaming discussions always got to turn into e-peen contests when people are expressing opinions based on their personal experiences. Edited July 2, 2018 by Lhancelot

[Rafiknoll]

You guys take these discussions too seriously. I fail to see why gaming discussions always got to turn into e-peen contests when people are expressing opinions based on their personal experiences.

 

Personal experience is good when it makes sense. But people tend to mix "personal objective experience" (such as "from what I can see from playing several classes and some simple math / guesswork / comparison to the current situation, I think tanks would be OP") and "personal subjective experience" (such as "I can't kill sins with my merc, so sin must be OP, nerf it), and then from that move on too "your personal (subjective) experience means nothing because you suck" and that suddenly means "your skill equals your credibility in logical arguments", then it progresses on to "your achievements/rating/DPS equals your skill" and then it is no longer surprising that the subject is completely about which achievement on which activity in the game indicates the better skill. All the above combined with the even more common mistake of "the more insults in my argument, the better it sounds", while in truth, the more the argument can stand on its own without even considering the identity of the other side is far better.

 

Not blaming any of the sides though, once the subject of skill has been raised, it becomes the main topic of the discussion, assuming both sides are completely human. Usually, the first guy to insult in a conversation is either too hot-headed for his own good (and that is honestly the best possible adjective I have for that. Sometimes it is worse) in the case he also makes sense (if you already make sense, why do you back yourself up with creative versions of "and you are an idiot"?), or he is currently losing the argument and doesn't have a good counter-argument so he desperately attempts to derail the subject, hoping the logical opposition is gonna take the bait and completely accept the new subject). As I said both sides are human, so it is normal, but now that it has been called out, maybe dig up the original conversation and stick to it? [i failed to do it, gave up around page 14...]

[Neulwen]

Like a bunch of others have said Guard needs to scale with defensive stats excluding augments up to the level it is currently while having it at a base level of 5%

This.

 

They might need to nerf healing a tad or slightly buff trauma as tanks being able to shield critical hits will be huge (VG/PT)

Just reduce some base tank spec mitigations instead. And also make them affected by tank stats.

Edited July 3, 2018 by Neulwen

[Joonbeams]

...

 

I suggest we all admit warzones and arenas have fundamentally different tactics and move along. Arenas are all about killing the other team faster, and since many games go to acid already, I can understand the frustration with ttk. Warzones are not; they are about playing objectives, that is, thinking tactically to out maneuver the opposing team. A team of inferior numbers but greater tactical planning can beat a numerically superior opponent

 

It will be lost in all the e-peen, but this ^^ right here is the issue. Warzones and arenas are simply two TOTALLY DIFFERENT games. Like even if we accept that it takes tremendous skill to play and succeed in ranked (I do actually believe that to be the case -- for the non-cheaters of which I know several), it simply still cannot be compared to 8v8 warzones in any way whatsoever (which also btw take a tremendous amount of skill to be good, but different skills). I know no one will care, and this will all be lost to other agendas, but this is a major issue with PvP in this game.

 

This is why I've for many years suggested that we have regs arenas queue. I know it will never happen. IMO this is the single biggest reason PvP is broken in the game (I know I'm in a minority of maybe n=1 on that ). But it's simply too hard for a player to even learn the ENTIRELY DIFFERENT game of ranked arenas without queuing ranked and idling by hoping it pops, playing ranked, sucking for a long time, sticking with it through that, and then maybe getting good. It's like saying you're gonna learn NiM Ops by doing planetary heroics - it's just not the same game at all.

 

But back to the point. The reason why the post from KendraP is so spot on is that for so many things in this game, we're talking from completely different vantage points. And devs have to try to cater to all of them. If you only do arenas, and you tank, you will see very little reason to even consider mitigation gear even after this change. But if you do the other, entirely different and non-comparable, 8v8 warzones, you will see scenarios where this will be your primary, or at least ready-to-swap-at-a-moment's-notice gear set -- etc. and so on...

[LeglessChair]

Defense rating is still bad and comes along with shield stats. I see this change being a "situationally" good.

[Lhancelot]

This is why I've for many years suggested that we have regs arenas queue.

 

This is a good idea.

 

It may prove to be unpopular, but for people that want to learn 4v4 tactics it would be far easier to dip their toes into non-ranked queues for 4v4s than to step into ranked as it stands now.

 

I have done PVP on games since RZ/SZ/Zek on EQ1 (17-18 years ago crap I am getting old) and "toxicity" doesn't faze me much I am used to talking crap and I am used to manchildren venting out of rage.

 

That being said, the stress you face when you are in ranked here is daunting even for me.

 

I can't imagine a brand new player wanting to try ranked and then getting bombarded by rage because they were "bad." I imagine many experience this and never try ranked again.

 

Even if non-ranked 4v4s proved rarely queued, even if it was used by only a handful of people a day it would be worth having as an option because it would be a starting point for players who just want to learn 4v4s without the stress of having to perform like a pro.

[Rafiknoll]

Defense rating is still bad and comes along with shield stats. I see this change being a "situationally" good.

 

I think the BiS remains the high endu version of the ench (231 endu), but since this one is obtainable only via RNG the next best thing is the crafted 246 (228 endu).

 

But even if you don't have those yes, defense is not entirely useless. If you use deflection/ saber ward / explosive fuel when whitebarred, then with def rating (talking about deflection now, switch the 50% to 35% for explosive fuel, and all numbers accordingly), the extra 50% will get your total def to around 80% or more, which means only 20% of the white damage even gets you, and without def rating at all the total def would be 60% or even less so 40% of the white damage will hit you. That is twice the effectiveness for a DCD of a duration of 15s. Not worth stacking def as a goal, but still not a bad side effect.

[i have 30% passive def on my assassin with high endu ench which are one 248, 6x246 and 1 DPS ench so it doesn't have any def + a total of 11 tanky augments, those who have the default tanky 248 ench with nearly 3 times more def will have a lot more. Maybe reach 95%+ with deflection. Didn't check.]

[MerriwxOne]

How to fix all of this tanking, skanking, tank dps spamming, and etc!

 

Don't give tanks offensive abilities. Give them support abilities to help dps classes deal more damage, healers heal faster/higher, provide buffs to DCDs/GCDs, provide true absorbing of dps, and assist companion dps when solo.

 

TWO things would happen:

1. All the dps only troll skanks would not play tank

2. People who love tanking would have more to do

[Rafiknoll]

How to fix all of this tanking, skanking, tank dps spamming, and etc!

 

Don't give tanks offensive abilities. Give them support abilities to help dps classes deal more damage, healers heal faster/higher, provide buffs to DCDs/GCDs, provide true absorbing of dps, and assist companion dps when solo.

 

TWO things would happen:

1. All the dps only troll skanks would not play tank

2. People who love tanking would have more to do

 

This idea is occasionally brought up in these forums but has one major flaw: It would need any aspect of the game except for the warzones to get a total overhaul.

 

Tanks need to be able to clear their own solo content.

Tanks need to be able to maintain aggro on operation bosses.

Tanks need to be able to complete heroic missions.

Tanks need to be able to kill mobs in order to level up.

And please don't tell me they should completely depend on their companions

[MerriwxOne]

This idea is occasionally brought up in these forums but has one major flaw: It would need any aspect of the game except for the warzones to get a total overhaul.

 

Tanks need to be able to clear their own solo content.COMPANION

Tanks need to be able to maintain aggro on operation bosses. Won't change without offensive abilities.

Tanks need to be able to complete heroic missions. COMPANION

Tanks need to be able to kill mobs in order to level up.COMPANION

And please don't tell me they should completely depend on their companions That's exactly what I'm saying!

Tanks are just that....TANKS...meaning you protect, look after, shield/absorb damage...so...YES...defend, protect, and help your companion kill stuff...not you. Defiantly not allow you to do massive damage spamming offensive abilities. Keeping aggro on a boss should not be dependent on damage.

[Gingishan]

Usseless cries. Make tank to hold like a true tank, twice stronger then a sniper. The tank must die last. So give him last standing tool, imunity for 20 seconds, so they can free move with 50% increased speed, take 0 dmg, imune to cc/stuns. 5 minutes CD. Give 20 sec of Epicness to tanks.

[Rafiknoll]

Tanks are just that....TANKS...meaning you protect, look after, shield/absorb damage...so...YES...defend, protect, and help your companion kill stuff...not you. Defiantly not allow you to do massive damage spamming offensive abilities. Keeping aggro on a boss should not be dependent on damage.

 

Aggro is EXACTLY dependant on damage (and healing), else DPS wouldn't have aggro and wouldn't be attacked by mobs. Literally, the mere presence of the tank would divert all attention to him and he could afk or run in circles or los the enemies rather than fight them, that is just stupid, and still requires a full redesign of all bosses.

 

Making tanks absolutely dependant on companions is the dumbest idea. Why should DPS and healers be able to do stuff while all companions are crafting and tanks not? In addition, in certain phases of story chapters there are no companions or they are all un-summonable (example: beginning of chapter 1 of KOFTE until you get Darth Marr), what will they do there?

Also, how will tanks kill ANY veteran/master mode bosses? DPS companions are impossible because the damage from the boss will kill you and your companion first, and healer companions will never get to damage because the damage from the boss will 100% occupy them.

 

And even if we (foolishly) ignore all the above, let's take assassins for example: how will you make assassin tanks not deal damage? what about the assassin DPS abilities? It is the same class for heaven's sake! You would simply TAKE shock, thrash, saber strike, lacerate, discharge, push, stun, maul and spike and replace them with a similar number of tank-exclusive abilities?

The game isn't built for such a difference between specs. If you wanna create an entirely new game, by all means, good luck with that (and find a better solution for solo content than COMPANIONS)

 

BTW can you name one game in which tanks that don't deal damage exist? In the odd case that you do, does this game have anything more than instanced PVP matches?

Edited July 5, 2018 by Rafiknoll

[MerriwxOne]

Aggro is EXACTLY dependant on damage (and healing)

Doesn't have to be. DPS damage can still aggro, but tank could have multiple abilities to keep boos aggro, add mob aggro, or selectively dump aggro.

Literally, the mere presence of the tank would divert all attention to him and he could afk or run in circles or los the enemies rather than fight them, that is just stupid, and still requires a full redesign of all bosses.

Yes...but I never mentioned AUTO aggro and wouldn't need to redesign anything.

Making tanks absolutely dependant on companions is the dumbest idea.

Ok..Don't like my suggestions..CHECK...Dumb?? Wow. Let's go back to tanks doing 6mil damage or 9k parses.

BTW can you name one game in which tanks that don't deal damage exist? In the odd case that you do, does this game have anything more than instanced PVP matches?

 

Not going down this PvP vs. PvE hole you are digging. This is the PvP thread. O...BTW...there are plenty of games that classes are support only. Support classes are quite powerful.

[KendraP]

Let's go back to tanks doing 9k parses.

 

Please show me this 9k parse.

[MerriwxOne]

Please show me this 9k parse.

 

WZ dps...pfft...you know what I mean. LOL

[KendraP]

WZ dps...pfft...you know what I mean. LOL

 

Ok then show me the 9k wz dps. Which is really a measure of survivability and time in combat as its:

(Total match damage) / (total match time)