Spoilers and why I did not like TLJ

[DarthDymond]

We will see Disney reboot episode 7 - 9. They should not bother with episode 9 and scrape the whole thing and start over before they lose more actors to age and death from original cast.

I will wait with bated breath for your prediction to come true, as Disney tosses out the highest domestic grossing movie of all time, and its sequel which has grossed over a billion dollars world-wide in less than three weeks.

 

Clearly they'll be in such a hurry to put these catastrophic failures behind them as quickly as possible.

Edited January 3, 2018 by DarthDymond

[KnightPierce]

I will wait with bated breath for your prediction to come true, as Disney tosses out the highest domestic grossing movie of all time, and its sequel which has grossed over a billion dollars world-wide in less than three weeks.

 

Clearly they'll be in such a hurry to put these catastrophic failures behind them as quickly as possible.

 

The sequel in its 3rd weekend was almost beat by a jumanji movie.

 

Disney knows they can only get away with making money from the brand for so long. The substance of the movies is not seen in the gross of the films, thats the power of the brand.

[DarthDymond]

The sequel in its 3rd weekend was almost beat by a jumanji movie.

 

Disney knows they can only get away with making money from the brand for so long. The substance of the movies is not seen in the gross of the films, thats the power of the brand.

I have concerns about what the upcoming Han Solo and Obi-Wan films are going to do to the overall health of the brand, but saying that Episodes VII and VIII -- two of the most successful movies of all time -- are somehow hurting "the power of the band" is just so divorced from reality that I'm not sure if your argument is even sincere.

[KnightPierce]

I have concerns about what the upcoming Han Solo and Obi-Wan films are going to do to the overall health of the brand, but saying that Episodes VII and VIII -- two of the most successful movies of all time -- are somehow hurting "the power of the band" is just so divorced from reality that I'm not sure if your argument is even sincere.

 

Its you thats disconnected. Go to youtube where people dont hide behind anonymous accounts. the hate for the latest film is near universal. People watched it, but did not walk away thinking it was good for star wars. The brand carried the sales, not the plots of the movies. These movie scripts without the brand of star wars would have been lack luster and flops.

[AshenK]

The sequel in its 3rd weekend was almost beat by a jumanji movie.

 

Disney knows they can only get away with making money from the brand for so long. The substance of the movies is not seen in the gross of the films, thats the power of the brand.

Most people are saying the Jumanji movie is better then TLJ could ever hope to be too. Really I'm with you Disney should just end what they are doing the TLJ has barely any fans and most people hate it. Maybe if Disney had taken the EU and worked on that rather then this sjw stuff things would be better.

[NuSeC]

The sequel in its 3rd weekend was almost beat by a jumanji movie.

 

Disney knows they can only get away with making money from the brand for so long. The substance of the movies is not seen in the gross of the films, thats the power of the brand.

 

 

https://theplaylist.net/lucasfilms-kathleen-kennedy-says-skywalker-storyline-may-continue-past-star-wars-episode-ix-20170417/

 

"I’d also be fine with movies that don’t involve the Jedi whatsoever."

 

LMAO at this.

Edited January 3, 2018 by NuSeC

[DarthDymond]

Its you thats disconnected. Go to youtube where people dont hide behind anonymous accounts. the hate for the latest film is near universal. People watched it, but did not walk away thinking it was good for star wars. The brand carried the sales, not the plots of the movies. These movie scripts without the brand of star wars would have been lack luster and flops.

Sorry man, but, at the end of the day, this, and this, and this are going to matter more to the health and power of the brand than those angry YouTube rants.

Edited January 3, 2018 by DarthDymond

[KnightPierce]

https://theplaylist.net/lucasfilms-kathleen-kennedy-says-skywalker-storyline-may-continue-past-star-wars-episode-ix-20170417/

 

"I’d also be fine with movies that don’t involve the Jedi whatsoever."

 

LMAO at this.

 

I feel like they are reacting to a simplified version of what balance of the force means. I think they believe that both are bad and should both be destroyed, rather than a reunion of them. Jedi and Sith in the EU had a Yin and Yang type of existence, but instead of exploring those extremes and coming to a balance, they want to paint a nihilistic brush on both. Thats the way I see KK going forward.

 

With that said, people were looking forward to the cancelled (suspended) Star Wars game 1313 which would have been a non jedi centered game. I think you can do a star wars story where the Force is sidelined, but you can't turn the force into a cure all magical force and then say it doesn't matter. That's what they are doing now, Making the force crazy powerful in the sense of new powers that would rival hogwarts and then try to extinguish it into nothingness.

[NuSeC]

Most people are saying the Jumanji movie is better then TLJ could ever hope to be too. Really I'm with you Disney should just end what they are doing the TLJ has barely any fans and most people hate it. Maybe if Disney had taken the EU and worked on that rather then this sjw stuff things would be better.

 

Don't say SJW here.. otherwise people will call you a racist sexist homophobe.

[KnightPierce]

Sorry man, but, at the end of the day, this, and this, and this are going to matter more to the health of the brand than those angry YouTube rants.

 

Showing 3 cosplays is a symbol of the health of the brand? Lunacy. Look at the youtube videos , with how many more viewers star wars rants have now than pro star wars critics. Millions of people tuning in to listen to these videos and comment in agreement by the hundreds of thousands.

[Leklor]

Most people are saying the Jumanji movie is better then TLJ could ever hope to be too. Really I'm with you Disney should just end what they are doing the TLJ has barely any fans and most people hate it.

 

Barely any fan? The movie that's on track to become the highest-grossing film of the year by a fair margin and has a Cinemascore of A and a respectable 7.6/10 on IMDB has "no fans".

Wow.

Go to the r/StarWars and you'll see that the hate is pretty much dead.

Same on r/Movies.

 

Maybe if Disney had taken the EU and worked on that rather then this sjw stuff things would be better.

 

Oh the laughs you just gave me.

Tell me, did you like "The Dark Nest Trilogy"?

Or "Legacy of the Force"?

Or "Fate of the Jedi"?

Because considering the actors' ages, that's what you'd have gotten.

Bad writting for Jacen Solo (Sorry, Darth Caedus, way to make Anakin's death meaningless with actual Sith still active), ten more years of love triangles for Jaina Solo, half of the likeable characters (Who would be total unknown for the casual movie audience) murdered for the sake of drama... Yeah, go with the EU, it would have worked GREAT.

Also, open the movies with a pretentious message reading like "Read the books, you fuc**** plebs, you'd understand if you had."

Because a movie with 50+ novels worth of backstory is always a great idea.

[KnightPierce]

Don't say SJW here.. otherwise people will call you a racist sexist homophobe.

 

honestly general chat for SWTOR seems to lean to either conservative or non-participants as far as politics go.

 

AND THATS THE CRAZY THING. Why are they shoving a partisan star wars movie subplot down people's throats at all? It should have been something everyone can enjoy.

 

But hey let some dog horses go free makes it all worth it.

[KnightPierce]

Barely any fan? The movie that's on track to become the highest-grossing film of the year by a fair margin and has a Cinemascore of A and a respectable 7.6/10 on IMDB has "no fans".

Wow.

Go to the r/StarWars and you'll see that the hate is pretty much dead.

Same on r/Movies.

 

 

 

Oh the laughs you just gave me.

Tell me, did you like "The Dark Nest Trilogy"?

Or "Legacy of the Force"?

Or "Fate of the Jedi"?

Because considering the actors' ages, that's what you'd have gotten.

Bad writting for Jacen Solo (Sorry, Darth Caedus, way to make Anakin's death meaningless with actual Sith still active), ten more years of love triangles for Jaina Solo, half of the likeable characters (Who would be total unknown for the casual movie audience) murdered for the sake of drama... Yeah, go with the EU, it would have worked GREAT.

Also, open the movies with a pretentious message reading like "Read the books, you fuc**** plebs, you'd understand if you had."

Because a movie with 50+ novels worth of backstory is always a great idea.

 

Another guy thinking Gross is a measure of success. When its the brand selling tickets and not the plot.

 

Put the plot iand script n any other sci fi brand and it would fail. Star Wars brand sold those tickets. Not the movies.

 

reddit is a shill infested hell hole far divorced from the vision of its true founder.

Edited January 3, 2018 by KnightPierce

[Leklor]

Another guy thinking Gross is a measure of success. When its the brand selling tickets and not the plot.

 

Put the plot iand script n any other sci fi brand and it would fail. Star Wars brand sold those tickets. Not the movies.

 

reddit is a shill infested hell hole far divorced from the vision of its true founder.

 

Okay so tell me this:

If people REALLY hated the movie in droves, why is it reaching such high numbers.

Don't you think the word on the worldwide hate from the majority of the public would have killed the film's earnings in a scant few days?

Do you want to know why it didn't collapse?

Because you live in your own bubble. You listen to like-minded people who hated the movie like you, who are probably still mourning Legends and believe that they hold some sort of sacred knowledge on Star Wars that makes them superior to the others.

The fact is this: The Last Jedi has received a, at worst, mixed reception.

It's an imperfect movies with a fair amount of issues that hold it back from being truly great.

And the general public seems to agree since they are still going to see it (Especially overseas, when you mentionned Jumanji you intentionally quieted the fact that it was for American theatres only).

And you know who is going to keep Star Wars alive in the long run? Hint: It's not you. But it's not me. Or the SWTOR community.

It's the millions of people who see the movies, including kids who will grow up with them.

They are the lifeblood of Star Wars, not some close-minded, hate-filled Youtubers.

They bring in the billions in merchandising, participate in making Star Wars a cultural phenomenon. Because that's your other mistake: Star Wars isn't "just" a film saga. It's a cultural milestone that has etched its mark into the public consciousness. And even the mixed reception of TLJ won't kill it.

The only thing that will happen with Episode 9 is that it will (again) be a pretty safe movie to balance out the reaction to TLJ straying to far from the norm.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Leklor

[KnightPierce]

Okay so tell me this:

If people REALLY hated the movie in droves, why is it reaching such high numbers.

Don't you think the word on the worldwide hate from the majority of the public would have killed the film's earnings in a scant few days?

Because ITS STAR WARS. The brand carriers the sales as I said.

 

Do you want to know why it didn't collapse?

Because you live in your own bubble. You listen to like-minded people who hated the movie like you, who are probably still mourning Legends and believe that they hold some sort of sacred knowledge on Star Wars that makes them superior to the others.

The fact is this: The Last Jedi has received a, at worst, mixed reception.

 

Mixed between paid critics that like it, and reviewers on youtube that hate it that are no beholden to corporate money or early access to films for their business model

 

It's an imperfect movies with a fair amount of issues that hold it back from being truly great.

 

Without the brand of star wars they would have flopped

 

And the general public seems to agree since they are still going to see it (Especially overseas, when you mentionned Jumanji you intentionally quited the fact that it was for American theatres only).

And you know who is going to keep Star Wars alive in the long run? Hint: It's not you. But it's not me. Or the SWTOR community.

It's the millions of people who see the movies, including kids who will grow up with them.

They are the lifeblood of Star Wars, not some close-minded, hate-filled Youtubers.

 

Those youtubers will reach more kids than the movies will. You grossly underestimate the reach of youtube

 

They bring in the billions in merchandising, participate in making Star Wars a cultural phenomenon. Because that's your other mistake: Star Wars isn't "just" a film saga. It's a cultural milestone that has etched its mark into the public consciousness. And even the mixed reception of TLJ won't kill it.

 

TLJ won't kill sales, it will kill and diminish its cultural impact. You think its too big to fail,

and you are wrong.

 

The only thing that will happen with Episode 9 is that it will (again) be a pretty safe movie to balance out the reaction to TLJ straying to far from the norm.

 

There is no balancing of the films to correct the last. People said the exact same thing with TFA, that it was a set up film, all of those people were wrong, they did not get the pay offs for the majority of the plot points set up in it. JJ Abram added mystery boxes that were empty into his film with no cohesive vision for where the movie would go in the next film. It was ad lib story telling and guess what? The next guy ignored most of it. Star Wars will see diminishing returns as they milk the brand. Its the brand selling the merchandise and the brand that owns the cultural phenomenon, this movies detract from that, not add to it

[Leklor]

I suppose time will tell.

But somehow I doubt it.

The Prequels were supposed to have killed Star Wars according to "the majority".

Look how dead it is today.

[DarthDymond]

Showing 3 cosplays is a symbol of the health of the brand? Lunacy. Look at the youtube videos , with how many more viewers star wars rants have now than pro star wars critics. Millions of people tuning in to listen to these videos and comment in agreement by the hundreds of thousands.

Those three cosplay pictures are examples of the thing that keeps getting lost in these intra-fandom discussions -- the way that these movies are inspiring a whole new generation of fans.

 

The same way you or I might have felt the first time we saw Luke and Darth Vader fight on Cloud City, these kids (and adults) are getting that same thrill seeing the lightsaber fly into Rey's hand. I heard the cheers in the theater when that moment happened at a midnight premier of TFA, and I heard the cheers again two and a half weeks ago when Rey lifted the bolders at the end of TLJ.

 

Rey and Finn and Poe and BB-8 are heroes that speak to and inspire these new fans. It really is something wonderful to see happening around us if one sets aside their own preconceptions about what Star Wars is "supposed" to be and takes a look.

Edited January 3, 2018 by DarthDymond

[KnightPierce]

Those three cosplay pictures are examples of the thing that keeps getting lost in these intra-fandom discussions -- the way that these movies are inspiring a whole new generation of fans.

 

The same way you or I might have felt the first time we saw Luke and Darth Vader fight on Cloud City, these kids (and adults) are getting that same thrill seeing the lightsaber fly into Rey's hand. I heard the cheers in the theater when that moment happened at a midnight premier of TFA, and I heard the cheers again two and a half weeks ago when Rey lifted the bolders at the end of TLJ.

 

Rey and Finn and Poe and BB-8 are heroes that speak to and inspire these new fans. It really is something wonderful to see happening around us if one sets aside their own preconceptions about what Star Wars is "supposed" to be and takes a look.

 

Flat characters are forgotten characters and thats what Rey, Finn, and BB-8 are. FLAT.

[DarthDymond]

Flat characters are forgotten characters and thats what Rey, Finn, and BB-8 are. FLAT.

You are absolutely entitled to that personal opinion -- just as all the people out there who don't like the characters of Luke or Han or Leia are entitled to those opinions.

 

Someone else's dislike of the Original Trilogy doesn't diminish my love of those characters and their story, and I don't think some guy's rant on YouTube is going to do so for a fan's love of these new characters either.

Edited January 3, 2018 by DarthDymond

[Leklor]

it was slated at Leonardo Di Caprio, but he withdrew from the film after the critical reception to episode 1 in the press

 

Untrue, Di Caprio went on record stating he thought he simply wasn't prepared to take on this role.

There is no mention anywhere of the negative reception of the film and in fact, it's not even clear WHEN Di Caprio met with Lucas, for all we know it could have happened in early 1999, negating your theory entirely (Because that's what it is: a theory.)

[Leklor]

it was slated at Leonardo Di Caprio, but he withdrew from the film after the critical reception to episode 1 in the press

 

Untrue, Di Caprio went on record stating he thought he simply wasn't prepared to take on this role.

There is no mention anywhere of the negative reception of the film and in fact, it's not even clear WHEN Di Caprio met with Lucas, for all we know it could have happened in early 1999, negating your theory entirely (Because that's what it is: a theory.)

 

You claiming that people were saying the prequals killed star wars is founded on what?! There was no social media at the time.

 

And? Social Media weren't the only means for people to communicate. Internet forums, fan conventions, blogs...

If the fan response to The Phantom Menace was so glowing, tell me, who harassed Jake Loyd out of acting? The press? Nah, it was "the fans", the very much toxic Star Wars fanbase who is so widespread that the name "Star Wars fanbase" has no meaning anymore since there are groups within the fanbase anyway, with very different opinions.

[KnightPierce]

Untrue, Di Caprio went on record stating he thought he simply wasn't prepared to take on this role.

There is no mention anywhere of the negative reception of the film and in fact, it's not even clear WHEN Di Caprio met with Lucas, for all we know it could have happened in early 1999, negating your theory entirely (Because that's what it is: a theory.)

 

 

 

And? Social Media weren't the only means for people to communicate. Internet forums, fan conventions, blogs...

If the fan response to The Phantom Menace was so glowing, tell me, who harassed Jake Loyd out of acting? The press? Nah, it was "the fans", the very much toxic Star Wars fanbase who is so widespread that the name "Star Wars fanbase" has no meaning anymore since there are groups within the fanbase anyway, with very different opinions.

 

Show proof, kid. This was just at the start of the dot com era.

[KnightPierce]

You are absolutely entitled to that personal opinion -- just as all the people out there who don't like the characters of Luke or Han or Leia are entitled to those opinions.

 

Someone else's dislike of the Original Trilogy doesn't diminish my love of those characters and their story, and I don't think some guy's rant on YouTube is going to do so for a fan's love of these new characters either.

 

Its not a personal opinion. They are flat characters with flat arcs.

[Valceanu]

Its not a personal opinion. They are flat characters with flat arcs.

 

Ah I see... Presenting an opinion as fact. Trademark of an "adult"... lol. Methinks we have been baited by a troll...

[KnightPierce]

Ah I see... Presenting an opinion as fact. Trademark of an "adult"... lol. Methinks we have been baited by a troll...

 

What is a jung archetype, what is the Hero's journey? What makes a character arc? None of these characters follow one. Rey is given super natural force ability and is and has been a Mary Sue. She then beats Kylo Ren multiple times for what kind of progressive arc in upcoming films?

 

Finn was a janitor turned side quest fetcher with plot lines no one cares about or think should be in the films.

 

BB 8 is product placement.