Spoilers and why I did not like TLJ

[AlienEyeTX]

Lets see, she makes people do things they would not normally do. Telepathic. Mastery Unlocked. Uses the force to lift giant boulders into the air like it was nothing so people could escape, Mastery unlocked. Pulls the light saber to herself, over coming Kylo (someone training from youth and is in the Skywalker bloodline). Mastery Unlocked. No training in this stuff at all.... just naturally beastmode. The very epitome of a Mary Sue.

 

 

 

No, you explained why it made sense to you.

 

You see what you want to see. I see the story that is being told and take it for the entertainment that it is.

 

All I can do is explain why it makes sense to me. I can't explain why big ideas don't fit in your head.

[AlienEyeTX]

Also, I wanted to add that Disney placed too much comedy into this movie. I felt anyways. I mean, You had Wilhuff Tarkin, Vader, The Emperor (any flavor), Dooku, Maul, and others that brought a certain evil to the Empire. They were a serious force, Hux on the other hand, I mean, he is getting crank calls about his mom. It is just hard to take this movie serious when it does not even attempt to do so itself.

 

Um, did you not see Poe in TFA? That's his personality. It made (some) sense that the joke went over Hux's head. Although, I do think they dragged that bit out a little long.

Edited December 29, 2017 by AlienEyeTX

[jarjarloves]

Um, did you not see Poe in TFA? That's his personality. It made (some) sense that the joke went over Hux's head. Although, I do think they dragged that bit out a little long.

 

^^^^ THIS! it's like people completely forget how Poe does the same thing to Kylo Ren at the start of TFA.

[NuSeC]

I can't explain why big ideas don't fit in your head.

 

Yes, continue throwing insults. Furthermore, you act as if someone is not allowed to not like this movie. I mean, what is the point of even replying to you?

Edited December 29, 2017 by NuSeC

[NuSeC]

Um, did you not see Poe in TFA? That's his personality. It made (some) sense that the joke went over Hux's head. Although, I do think they dragged that bit out a little long.

 

As if that was the only scene that comedy was injected. As I said, too much Disney.

[jarjarloves]

As if that was the only scene that comedy was injected. As I said, too much Disney.

 

.... Lucas created Jar Jar Binks a cartoon space rabbit who's every line was meant to be a joke. But yea... Disney forced comedy too much..

[DarthDymond]

Saw it twice opening weekend, and now gave it a couple weeks to let the 'new car smell' wear off a bit. I think it's the best SW movie since TESB -- the characters, the story, the production quality, the acting, the humor, the action . . . I really enjoyed every major aspect of this movie.

 

That is not to say it was without flaws, by any stretch. All SW movies have their flaws, and this one is no exception. It's just that, for me, the good far, far outweighed the occasional missteps and shortcomings.

 

(Spoiler tags for length-- everything to be taken with an obviously implied "IMO")

 

The Good and the Great:

Providing something new.

 

While I loved TFA, it really did suffer from retreading familiar ground and 'playing it safe' a bit too often. When the opening crawl in TLJ looked like it might be setting up a Hoth 2.0 scenario, I was really worried we'd be getting more of the same here as well. I was extremely pleased that, instead, we got an original story that nonetheless kept the 'feel' of a Star Wars adventure. This movie hit the right balance, for me, of call-backs and new content. I think a large part of that is because when it was clearly harking back to an earlier element -- such as the Rey and Kylo elevator scene echoing the Luke / Vader moments in RotJ -- it then took those elements further or in a different direction than before.

 

Everything on Ahch-To.

 

• Luke being a crotchety old man who wants nothing to do with Rey at first (and his "daily routine").
  
• Chewie busting down the door.
  
• The scene between R2 and Luke. (On top of being a great reunion and character moment in its own right, that Leia holo hit me right in the feels in a post-Carrie Fisher world.)
  
• Luke's "lessons" for Rey, and everything they say about his own character / mindset.
  
• Rey's 'Through the Looking Glass' scene. (Special effects have generally gotten good enough in movies by now that doing something interesting / creative like this resonates more than having the effects just look good on screen.)
  
• Learning the truth about what happened with Luke and Ben, especially the Rashamon-style retelling from different perspectives.
  
• The Rey / Luke fight in the rain.
  
• Yoda calling Luke's bluff and blowing up the tree himself.
  
• The Porgs were actually cute and funny, rather than annoying (which I was worried they'd be from the trailers).

 

Killing Snoke.

 

One of my two overarching gripes with TFA (besides the plotline being a retread) was that the villains felt very . . . meh. I still had hope for Kylo Ren, because it was clear that it was an intentional element of his character that he was trying to be a new Vader. But with Snoke, it seemed like the writers had just come up with a pale imitation of the Emperor without any acknowledgement of him being such a bargain-basement rehash. So I was thrilled when this movie used the uninspired character of Snoke as an inspired plot point instead -- shockingly killing him off like 2/3 of the way through the movie and setting the plot on a new trajectory. I would have liked this entire trilogy a whole lot less if they actually had this guy as the "Big Bad", the misdirect they pulled off instead was much, much better.

 

Rey's parentage.

 

After TFA, I was really worried they were going to make Rey into Ben's long-lost sister, or Luke's hidden-away daughter. I'm not saying it would be impossible to do that sort of plot well, but it would have made the Star Wars universe feel that much smaller. I love that she is a legitimately new element, I actually cheered in the theater during the elevator scene when that was confirmed. And I love how it all played out on-screen, with Rey searching for her past instead of being mindful of the present, with Kylo making the wrongheaded conclusion that because Rey's parents were trash that means Rey has "no place in this story" and is a "nobody" herself, and with Rey ultimately rejecting Kylo's offer nonetheless. I'm not sure if Ep. IX is going to continue Rey feeling conflicted over whether her past makes her unworthy, or if her rejection of Kylo is meant to play as a rejection of that thought as well, but I'm looking forward to seeing either way.

 

The Rey / Kylo Ren mental link.

 

I loved that Rey's immediate reaction was to grab a blaster and fire, I loved how this plotline allowed the main hero and the main villain to develop a personal connection over time, I loved the emotion that the actors brought to it, and I loved where it took the story. Rey and Kylo slow-mo moving back-to-back to fight the praetorian guards might be my favorite visual of the movie (and this movie had a lot of great visuals) because it was such a culmination of what had come before. And it was made even better by the way that they ultimately still ended up on opposite sides -- Rey didn't fall, and Kylo wasn't redeemed, but now the personal, emotional stakes are established in their conflict. The shot of Rey closing the door on Kylo as they connected again at the end was pitch perfect.

 

The Codebreaker.

 

I enjoyed the hell out of this new character, Del Toro's portrayal of him, his speech to Finn and how well it encompasses his nihilistic worldview, and how we now have a scoundrel character who hasn't (yet?) joined the plucky band of underdogs. I think it was his last line, though, that "Maybe" to Finn, which really landed the character for me.

 

The action sequences.

 

The rollicking action of the opening space battle, the Rey and Kylo vs praetorian guards fight, the striking visuals in the battle on Crait -- all of the big set-piece action sequences were really good.

 

Turning Hux into a punchline.

 

With Snoke, it was clear from TFA that the character was a poor retread of the Emperor, but that movie didn't really give enough of Hux for me to have a clear idea of what -- if anything -- he was supposed to be all about. I was worried Hux would likewise end up being a bargain basement version of Tarkin. Instead, TLJ fleshed out a different dynamic and gave the character a purpose I wouldn't have expected for him -- comic relief. Just like killing off Snoke was the right move for that character, so too did moving Hux into this role save the character for me. Plus I found all the gags at expense were genuinely funny (with the exception of the scene with Poe, which started great but ran too long).

 

Most of the humor throughout was great.

 

There was a lot more of it than I would have expected, and a couple gags here and there landed flat, but overall I thought the humor was great throughout. BB-8 trying to fix the short; "Jakku." "Okay, this is pretty much nowhere."; Chewie trying to eat his meal in peace; "You feel that? It's the Force" *slap*; Hux getting repeatedly thrown around; there was way more good than bad.

 

The last scene played my emotions like a fiddle.

 

As someone who grew up watching the original trilogy, who used the cardboard roll from X-mas wrapping paper as a pretend lightsaber, that last shot of the little boy looking at the stars, holding his broom like a saber after hearing the story of Luke Skywalker had me teary-eyed. This movie made Luke the mentor -- and an embittered one at first -- rather than the main hero, but it gave him a heroic end as he saved the Resistance, and with that last scene of the kids telling his story the movie also showed that it understood why the character is important to so many people.

 

The Not-So-Good and the Bad:

Super-Leia.

 

This was just . . . dumb. Really did pull me out of the movie. I can kind of try to justify it to myself after the fact -- her father survived being charbroiled, her son can stop blaster bolts mid-air, so yeah, she can pull something like that off -- but, nope, on balance still a really dumb scene.

 

The "ticking clock" setup with the Resistance fleet.

 

The movie had some plot points that raise some serious logical problems, but that I am okay with -- on balance -- because they resonate well enough emotionally to outweigh the plot holes. With this, though, the balance just tips the other way. Thematically, I can appreciate a setup where the First Order is running the Resistance down, wearing them out, and picking them off. But (perhaps because it's drawn out for most the movie) it just seems like there're so many ways this premise falls apart. The First Order can't hyperspace jump a few Star Destroyers out ahead of the Resistance and box them in? They can't send out some bombers of their own to at least slow them down? ("We can't support you that far out" might be a legit concern with the Supreme Leader's apprentice, but there's no way the First Order cares that much about random TIE pilots.) The Battlestar Galactica remake did a much better take on a similar premise in its first normal episode, "33" -- I kind of think it would have been better if TLJ had just stolen that version wholesale.

 

God-mode BB-8.

 

I really like BB-8 overall as an addition to the series -- I loved his scene inside Poe's X-wing early on and most of the comedic relief he provided throughout the movie -- but I just don't like it when the movies make astromech droids into superheroes. It bugged the heck out of me when R2 took down two Super Battledroids in RotS, and a couple of the sequences here felt like they were cut from the same cloth. Having BB-8 both (i) bind and gag three security guards and (ii) hijack the AT-ST to rescue Finn and Rose, was just a bit too much. (By contrast, I thought the part where BB-8 fired the coins at the one guard was good, since it was just distracting the guy long enough for the Codebreaker to knock him out.)

 

A few of the individual jokes fell flat.

 

The Poe / Hux scene at the beginning started off good, but overstayed its welcome, going on for too long. There were a few other "funny" lines and gags that also came up short at various points -- "bring it on chrome dome" sticks in my mind, for one.

 

The So-So:

Hyperspace Ramming.

 

The scene itself was freaking gorgeous, and a great moment for Holdo. But the logic of "why don't they always do that?" did really pull me out of the movie for a moment. I wouldn't have minded it at all if there had been a line or two explaining why it isn't done more often (if, for example it's impossible to hit a target as small as a Star Destroyer unless you're at point-blank range and most of the time the ship trying at that distance would be shot out of the sky long before it completed the jump), and for me the thematic and cinematic power of the scene makes up for the logical issue -- but only just barely.

 

Canto Bight.

 

The casino scene and the Fathier escape on Canto Bight just didn't do much for me overall. They didn't feel as unnecessary and out of place as the way the Rathtar scene in TFA and the Bor Gullet scene in Rogue One did, but they didn't grab me the way the rest of the movie did. At least it set up the Codebreaker and the final scene with the kids, which were two parts of the movie I particularly loved.

 

Edited December 29, 2017 by DarthDymond

[NuSeC]

.... Lucas created Jar Jar Binks a cartoon space rabbit who's every line was meant to be a joke. But yea... Disney forced comedy too much..

 

Jar Jar was dumb, and was not given much screen-time after episode 1. Also, episode 1 is the only one that even remotely comes close this this train wreck as far as forced comedy. TLJ is swimming in non-needed comedic scenes

[Dayshadow]

Absolutely not.

You called me a liar on the issue of Rey's parentage.

I showed you a Theory video from DECEMBER 2016 (I'm using caps so you don't miss the date) that showed that people had already interpreted (Turns out correctly) elements presented in TFA to deduce the truth.

 

He didn't interpret anything correctly. There was nothing to interpret. JJ Abrams himself admitted that there is no plan, ala Lost. He stated this back in 2015. He left it for the next director to fill in the blanks and Rian Johnson chose to drop what Abrams set up and go nowhere with it. It could literally have gone any which way. The trilogy is just being haphazardly tossed together on the fly. Rian Johnson was free to do whatever he wanted and this is what he chose.

 

That Youtuber isn't you. He's some edgelord who just wanted to go against the crowd and has to ignore all the clearly cryptic themes surrounding Rey's situation like how she is an instant Jedi master who knows abilities she was never taught and why the movie keep harping on her background and intentionally making it out to be something mysterious. There is so much mental training and discipline necessary to use the force. Rey is like a person who achieves a state of meditation--true Samadhi--not just on her first attempt, but without actually comprehending what meditation is or the steps to meditation; just reaches enlightenment while sipping a latte at Starbucks. It's absurd. He has to basically IGNORE Rey's story arc. Notice he never addresses any of the absurdities. He never argues that he thinks it's just bad writing which is the only valid, if not lazy, argument you can make in regards to Rey's past following TLJ.

 

You had the audacity to keep calling me a liar despite that.

Face the music, random Internet stranger: You call someone a liar because you were wrong and couldn't admit it. That person proved to you that a lot of people had come to the same conclusion and your reaction was to make a fool out of yourself by repeating your baseless accustions.

 

You think that because you put forward something that I have to agree with it? Get over yourself. You're argument has been disputed. I don't agree with that YouTuber and that YouTuber doesn't even address the glaring issues. It's like saying, "Here, look this guy is an idiot who completely glossed over the main points being brought up because he's either bull******** to get hate views or really absentminded to the point his intellect needs to be questioned." If you'd like me to upgrade you from liar to sub intelligent (if that works better for you) I can do that if you like. Are you just intellectually challenged or where you lying?

 

But on the issue of calling me a liar, that's different. You're not insulting a movie I thought decent or questioning my view of a plot element, you're attacking me, personally. So I'll keep calling you out on it until you admit that you were an imbecile to baselessly call be a liar.

 

If I think you're lying I'll call you out. It's not a spiteful attack. It's what I honestly think and there is no way around it. What am I supposed to do? Nod and smile like someone is stating something remotely valid when they say something absurd? The alternative is you're lacking basic cognitive aptitudes and are so absent minded as to not even be able to remember the movie. I gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed you were lying. Anyone can toss out random ideas, but to take in all the information and conclude nothing you saw on screen implies there is something up with Rey's past? Not. Possible. Not without a very shoddy memory which denotes a low IQ or lying in hindsight.

 

My advice is that if the comments made by anonymous people on internet are so troubling to you, you should probably stay away from places on the internet where people post anonymous comments. You probably should stop right here.

 

No it didn't. You CHOSE to interpret it that way but TLJ pretty much spells it out. The Force powered up and skilled up Rey because there was no one to train her (Luke had cut himself from the Force) and balance needed to be restored.

 

That is never stated. That is a lie. I'm calling you out again. You're lying. I have the movie on my hard drive. I can watch the scene anytime. You. Are. Lying. Snoke never says anything about the Force conjuring up a fully trained Jedi. In fact he said he thought Luke would rise to meet Kylo. He specifically refers to Rey and Kylo's strength. She still would require training. It's not a matter of interpretation.

 

And beyond her raw power, Rey hasn't done anything out of the ordinary for a Jedi.

 

But she isn't a Jedi. The Chosen One, with all the midichlorians, couldn't do any of this stuff untrained. He only had Mr. Magoo powers and Rey only had a form of that at first (her ability to understand Chewie was kind of weird). But then she, out of the blue, starts doing things that require years of training. There is zero precedent for a person literally not knowing anything about Jedi one moment and being a freaking Jedi Master the next. Sorry, I refuse to believe you are this dumb so, yes, I think you're lying. Honestly, it's the most respectful opinion I can form given what you're saying.

 

The rest of her displays are just power, not mastery.

 

Do you know nothing about Star Wars? Or are you just extremely ignorant about the Force and how Jedi training works? Imagine if Tummo yogi were Jedi (look it up). What you propose is that I could just be told about Tummo and start drying wet towels in freezing weather naked by just thinking warm thoughts. It. Takes. Training. Practice. None of which she had.

 

Yes, mind tricks require training. It's not just as simple as thinking, "Do what I say". Neither is telekinesis. It. Requires. Training. If it was that easy she would have already discovered those power by mistake long before TFA occurs. Like the kid at the end. He's using the force without training. But that because Rian Johnson just pulled new rules out of his arse. It can only be discussed NOW because it was not a thing from Episodes 1-7. Or even 8 until literally the very last scene. Prior to TLJ this dumbing down of the Force was not a thing. So following TFA, prior to TLJ's last scene, you can't say Rey makes sense. Only in hindsight. Even then we don't really know if, in fact, he's the exception and can do that because he's more powerful than Rey and Kylo. It's up to Abrams who can very well shelve Johnson's ideas and go back to traditional Force lore because Kathleen Kennedy has made a complete mess of Star Wars with her utter lack of direction for the franchise. Kevin Feige she is not. I can't believe I even have to explain this to you.

Edited December 29, 2017 by Dayshadow

[AlienEyeTX]

Yes, continue throwing insults. Furthermore, you act as if someone is not allowed to not like this movie. I mean, what is the point of even replying to you?

 

Hey, pal, it's no concern of mine whether you like the movie or not. What I take exception with is your refusal to even consider any debate explaining another point of view.

 

I get it... you're mad about the old EU being gone and just can't bring yourself to view this as its own piece of work.

 

That's ok. You can go sulk in the corner with the ridiculous stories of the old EU and I'll enjoy the new story that we have unfolding before us. At least I'll have a smile on my face.

[AlienEyeTX]

That is not to say it was without flaws, by any stretch. All SW movies have their flaws, and this one is no exception. It's just that, for me, the good far, far outweighed the occasional missteps and shortcomings.

 

I'm just going to cherry-pick this statement from that entire post. This is how I feel, too.

 

The movie is not perfect and it certainly didn't go anywhere near the way that I thought it would. But I was very happy, on the whole, with what we got.

 

The worst of it was

Leia in space. I cringed when I saw it happening. I can let it go, though. As much as I don't like that scene, I won't let it ruin an otherwise good movie.

 

 

I was surprised by

Luke and his response, initially, to Rey. But, it makes sense after we see him for a while. He was down and took what he considered to be the best course of action by removing himself from the situation.

 

 

 

I want to know more about

how Snoke came into contact with Ben to begin with. I'm not concerned about where Snoke came from, but I am interested in how he connected to Ben and the lies he fed him. I imagine that they'll put this in a book that I won't read.

 

 

They should have

made the fight between Finn and Phasma last longer. That was a major let-down. There were plenty of other scenes that could have been shortened to give this fight the screen time that it deserved.

 

 

I don't mind that

they killed Luke. I thought his end was fitting. I don't know how to make it better without also weakening his character. You can't have him lose a fight to Kylo. You can't have him get shot down in an x-wing. He could pull an Obi-Wan and let Kylo kill him in front of Rey... but we've seen that before. In the end, he came through (as Luke always does, eventually), he was heroic, and he pulled the most amazing trick we've seen on-screen. What's not to like about that, other than just that he's "gone?"

 

 

Next time, I want

Hux to be ruthless, Poe to be a leader, Rey to have a struggle, and Kylo to be leading a small army of Force-users... they need to do something with the Knights of Ren!

 

 

I imagine that when Ep IX starts, several years will have passed and things will be a bit different. Can't wait to see how they bring it all together in the end.

[Leklor]

He didn't interpret anything correctly. There was nothing to interpret. JJ Abrams himself admitted that there is no plan, ala Lost. He stated this back in 2015. He left it for the next director to fill in the blanks and Rian Johnson chose to drop what Abrams set up and go nowhere with it. It could literally have gone any which way. The trilogy is just being haphazardly tossed together on the fly. Rian Johnson was free to do whatever he wanted and this is what he chose.

 

I have a question for you: How is taking elements that were in the previous movie (See Theory video) and going in that direction "Dropping everything Abrams did"? It's in the movie, denying it is pointless. It's there, it possible to see it. So how, tell me, did Johnson drop anything set up? Dropping a set-up implies outright changing the direction it was headed in. TFA did not lock any direction, it was left open. Several "roads" were possible, Johnson chose one. How. Did. He. Drop. Anything? Explain it to me.

 

That Youtuber isn't you.

 

That is relevant how? He made the same deduction as I did. If he could do it, why couldn't I? Why do I have to be a liar?

 

He's some edgelord who just wanted to go against the crowd and has to ignore all the clearly cryptic themes surrounding Rey's situation like how she is an instant Jedi master who knows abilities she was never taught and why the movie keep harping on her background and intentionally making it out to be something mysterious.

 

Again, the movie doesn't do that. It never "implied" a great hidden background for Rey, it just avoided talking about it because it was intentional.

 

There is so much mental training and discipline necessary to use the force.

 

Says who? The Clone Wars, the 2008 series supervized by Lucas, shows a BABY, a litteral BABY, lifting objects with the Force. If a BABY can use the Force why does Rey need to train? Because otherwise it goes against your vision?

 

You think that because you put forward something that I have to agree with it? Get over yourself.

 

You don't have to agree. But there is a world between disagreeing... and calling someone a liar.

You did the second thing. You didn't claim to have a different vision. You declared that I was not only wrong but doing so intentionally.

That's not disagreeing, that's what's called a personal attack.

 

If I think you're lying I'll call you out. It's not a spiteful attack.

 

It is when you have no proof.

 

It's what I honestly think and there is no way around it.

 

That's the crux of the issue from the beginning; What you think isn't the truth. It's just... what you think.

 

What am I supposed to do? Nod and smile like someone is stating something remotely valid when they say something absurd?

 

Tell me that you disagree and that you still believe you are correct? That's what educated people do when they disagree, not baselessly call their opponent a liar.

 

but to take in all the information and conclude nothing you saw on screen implies there is something up with Rey's past?

 

If I lack cognitive capacities, you have dreadful reading skills. I never said that TFA never implied there was something fishy about Rey's past. I said, pretty much word for word, that the film left it open that their COULD be something about Rey's past or not. Turns out not. That's what I said, I invite you to check.

 

That is never stated. That is a lie.

 

Supreme Leader Snoke, the Throne Room scene. "Darkness rises, and Light to meet it", and "As you grew more powerful so did your equal in the Light."

Who's lying now? Is it not in the movie?

 

Do you know nothing about Star Wars? Or are you just extremely ignorant about the Force and how Jedi training works?

 

You're basing your argument on the Legends way of the Force.

In the current Canon, several Force-Sensitive have demonstrated incredibly quick or near-instant mastery of its power.

 

In the end your argument remains: I have my vision of this and that and there is no way it can be wrong.

 

If the Force was just about training and not about destiny and ****, Chirrut wouldn't have survived his first scene in Rogue One.

But RO and TLJ have now shown that the Force is capable (And willing) to directly interfere to make sure that events happen as they should. Rey having her "mastery" of the Force is simply due to her having no master available to train her.

 

Edit: Scratch the above questions, just answer this one: Who made you an authority on Star Wars to the point where you can state "facts", no back it up with any concrete material and still allow yourself to call anyone contesting your points a moron or a liar?

Unless you are secretely Pablo Hidalgo or a contributor to the Story Group, you have zero legitimacy.

 

Also, how can you in the same paragraph claim that Abrams had no plans for Episodes VIII and IX and just after that declare that Rey's past was supposed to be a big mystery and that it proved she'd been trained before.

Kind of contradictory, isn't it? Was there a plan, or was there not? (Answer: There wasn't, Abrams admitted to it himself. So Johnson didn't "change" anything.)

 

Edit 2: Regarding training, I found this little nugget of info that will interest you: Some such abilities, such as enhanced reflexes and minor acts of precognition, could be accessed without conscious application. Others, such as telekinesis or a mind trick, required acts of will, though with training could be made to seem effortless.

(Taken from http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_power)

So the most recent info databank on Force Powers as of today regarding new canon outright states that training is not mandatory. Satisfied? Did I quote and sourced my claims enough or are you now going to accuse me of editing the Wookieepedia article just "to prove you wrong"?

Edited December 29, 2017 by Leklor

[NuSeC]

Hey, pal, it's no concern of mine whether you like the movie or not. What I take exception with is your refusal to even consider any debate explaining another point of view.

After you thrown insults, that is how you debate and share your point of view?

 

And apparently it is your concern because you jumped right in on the offensive. But yeah, that makes someone want to converse with you.

 

I get it... you're mad about the old EU being gone and just can't bring yourself to view this as its own piece of work.

 

I am mad? My issues are listed in the OP. There is nothing for you to "get". As far as it being its own piece of work... we can agree at least on that.

 

That's ok. You can go sulk in the corner with the ridiculous stories of the old EU and I'll enjoy the new story that we have unfolding before us. At least I'll have a smile on my face.

 

Yeah, you are looking for a debate when throwing insults and calling people names. Move along buddy. If you don't see why people don't want to converse with you, perhaps I can shed some light on the subject: it is because you have went on the offensive at me from the start. I am done conversing with you. Good day.

Edited December 29, 2017 by NuSeC

[AlienEyeTX]

Nevermind... Edited December 29, 2017 by AlienEyeTX

[jarjarloves]

Jar Jar was dumb, and was not given much screen-time after episode 1. Also, episode 1 is the only one that even remotely comes close this this train wreck as far as forced comedy. TLJ is swimming in non-needed comedic scenes

 

"oooohh Maxi Big da Force" - Jar Jar Binks Episode 1

 

You think EP1 is the only of the prequels with non needed comedic scenes?

 

I present C-3P0 in Episdoe 2

 

 

 

during the huge climatic battle where Jedi are dying we have C3P0 who's every line is a bad dad joke.

[NuSeC]

"oooohh Maxi Big da Force" - Jar Jar Binks Episode 1

 

You think EP1 is the only of the prequels with non needed comedic scenes?

 

I present C-3P0 in Episdoe 2

 

 

 

during the huge climatic battle where Jedi are dying we have C3P0 who's every line is a bad dad joke.

 

Correct but notice how the empire is never made fun of nor their "evilness" questioned or not taken seriously. Moff Tarken didn't take mama jokes.

[Leklor]

Correct but notice how the empire is never made fun of nor their "evilness" questioned or not taken seriously. Moff Tarken didn't take mama jokes.

 

But then Tarkin had a long and respected military career before Rogue One/A New Hope.

He wasn't the illegitimate son of an Imperial General whom he murdered out of spite and who owes most of his fame to his family name and not his strategic skill.

Comparing Tarkin and Hux is kind of unfair since they were never intended to communicate the same "message", they're not the same archetype.

[TalonVII]

But then Tarkin had a long and respected military career before Rogue One/A New Hope.

He wasn't the illegitimate son of an Imperial General whom he murdered out of spite and who owes most of his fame to his family name and not his strategic skill.

Comparing Tarkin and Hux is kind of unfair since they were never intended to communicate the same "message", they're not the same archetype.

 

Tarkin suffered from his own hubris. Hux is just an idiot who's too stupid for words.

[NuSeC]

But then Tarkin had a long and respected military career before Rogue One/A New Hope.

He wasn't the illegitimate son of an Imperial General whom he murdered out of spite and who owes most of his fame to his family name and not his strategic skill.

Comparing Tarkin and Hux is kind of unfair since they were never intended to communicate the same "message", they're not the same archetype.

 

So that infers not taking the "empire" seriously? I mean that does not change that it is not the same feelings I get when thinking about them. I mean. Just bust yo-mama jokes on them to CC them into not doing anything. I guess that is this movie's version of dirty kick.

 

I don't know this movie to me feels like it just does not fit into the SW universe.However, Disney being who they are have control of it. Lucas, the man that invented it all has no say at all.

 

On another note, I just thought of something else. While chasing the ships and shooting them out one by one, when the ships ran out of fuel, they actually slowed down in space, because that is a thing and everything you know about motion in space since the 3rd grade is thrown out the window. Example, the Voyager 1&2 have traveled across our solar system, they are moving at roughly 35,000 mph and staying at that speed because of inertia - there is no friction in space to slow your speed. Yet the republic/rebels ships somehow manage to disregard this completely because of the plot-line.

 

Bad writing. The more I think of it, the more bad writing I see.

 

Mark Hammell tried to warn us. "It must be talking about Jake Skywalker." or "this is not the Star Wars I know, this is Star Wars the next generation. Lucas said himself "I sold my children to white slavers."

 

They started a trilogy without having an endpoint in sight. They are writing it as they go with different directors and writers and it truly shows.

Edited January 2, 2018 by NuSeC

[Valceanu]

This isn't exactly my strong suit but in my mind when it comes to space flight it's a matter of acceleration (and how long you can maintain it) rather then flat out top speed or indeed slowing down as it were. So the longer you can maintain thrust the more momentum you pick up over time essentially. The lighter rebel ships would accelerate faster which is why the first order ships couldn't catch up but once they ran out of fuel they were stuck at the speed they had run out of fuel at while the first order ships would continue to accelerate even though at a slower rate until eventually catching up. At least that is the way I interpreted it... Though like I said space flight isn't exactly up my alley. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong and explain how it works. All of this assumes that you don't enter the gravitational field of a celestial body ofc or encounter other particles out there capable of causing friction... Edited January 2, 2018 by Valceanu

[gragnongoth]

Can anyone remember a Star Wars flick that didn't illicit vocal criticism?

 

For my part, I don't particularly need everything completely spelled out and I go into these things with a pretty open mind. It would have been neat to see Luke pull some amazing swordplay stunts, but I like him as a crazy hermit and I thought his finale was appropriate. I enjoyed the sub-plots as well and I really liked how the character's decisions/plans didn't always work out.

 

Idk, I think the trick to enjoying Star Wars movies is to not convince yourself that your personal vision is better than what leaves the editing room.

[DarthDymond]

Still somewhat trying to wrap my head around complaints that "they totally threw out the window what the previous movie implied" being directed at a series that made a seminal moment out of reversing what a previous movie had explicitly said:

 

Obi-Wan: “A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights. He betrayed and murdered your father.”

 

If TESB hadn't gone in a different direction -- in that case through an outright retcon -- we wouldn't even have the notion that Star Wars is about the Skywalker family in the first place.

Edited January 2, 2018 by DarthDymond

[AlienEyeTX]

Still somewhat trying to wrap my head around complaints that "they totally threw out the window what the previous movie implied" being directed at a series that made a seminal moment out of reversing what a previous movie had explicitly said:

 

Obi-Wan: “A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights. He betrayed and murdered your father.”

 

If TESB hadn't gone in a different direction -- in that case through an outright retcon -- we wouldn't even have the notion that Star Wars is about the Skywalker family in the first place.

 

You're right. There are so many inconsistencies dating back to the OT and especially in the PT.

 

Of course, it's fine if some people didn't like the direction of the movie. But to say that it ruined Star Wars or threw out existing lore is just nonsense.

[NuSeC]

Still somewhat trying to wrap my head around complaints that "they totally threw out the window what the previous movie implied" being directed at a series that made a seminal moment out of reversing what a previous movie had explicitly said:

 

Obi-Wan: “A young Jedi named Darth Vader, who was a pupil of mine until he turned to evil, helped the Empire hunt down and destroy the Jedi Knights. He betrayed and murdered your father.”

 

If TESB hadn't gone in a different direction -- in that case through an outright retcon -- we wouldn't even have the notion that Star Wars is about the Skywalker family in the first place.

 

However, you have to remember, the original SW "before it was re-subtitled "the new hope" Lucas had no idea he was even going to be able to make anymore. He had the whole thing planned out but Fox did not want a trilogy. So he had to make a single movie that would be all it was. With a possible opener into TESB but it could also live and die as a singular movie. Lucas did the original with that in mind. Which is why we started at episode 4 in place of 1 when the whole thing kicked off.

 

Also, it is explained as a certain point of view. Even in ROTS - Yoda tells Obi that "the padawan you trained gone he is- consumed by Darth Vader. One of the very reasons why TESB is regarded as the best is because of the twist of words used and how Lucas was able to leave enough making you want to know what happens in the third part of the trilogy once TESB came out. TLJ really left me not caring about any people left. They did not build up the characters and engaged instead in having a Mary Sue.

 

Now we have some people that escaped on a single ship - including Carrie Fisher (who will not be around in the next one.) But Rey and Kylo can continue force skyping each other and force ghosts can shoot lighting and force sensitives can now just be superman and fly around in outer space.

 

I mean... yeah.

[NuSeC]

This isn't exactly my strong suit but in my mind when it comes to space flight it's a matter of acceleration (and how long you can maintain it) rather then flat out top speed or indeed slowing down as it were. So the longer you can maintain thrust the more momentum you pick up over time essentially. The lighter rebel ships would accelerate faster which is why the first order ships couldn't catch up but once they ran out of fuel they were stuck at the speed they had run out of fuel at while the first order ships would continue to accelerate even though at a slower rate until eventually catching up. At least that is the way I interpreted it... Though like I said space flight isn't exactly up my alley. Please someone correct me if I'm wrong and explain how it works. All of this assumes that you don't enter the gravitational field of a celestial body ofc or encounter other particles out there capable of causing friction...

 

Space is a vacuum, as such there is no friction nor any "wind" to cause you to slow down. Like the example I used, the voyagers 1 and 2 are moving @ 35,000 MPH with no assisted help from thrusters.

 

If the movie was trying to proclaim there was a fuel shortage, then when the fuel runs out, they would still be moving as fast as they were when it did because of existing momentum. Also, the fact they said they were "faster" then the 1st order ships? I mean, you have light speed capability against someone who does not. Light speed slightly ahead of them??? I mean that whole scene is meant to put pressure and a static timeline in place where none could exist. I mean if you can speed up you would catch them and because they cant jump. Being that there is nothing keeping them from speeding up closer to lightspeed other than the plotline, it is kind of weak.