No expansion, server merges, and barely any new content announced. Is SWTOR dead?

[FerkWork]

To be honest a lot of the few complaints I see are those that want story only cancer again not realizing how massively it failed and almost killed the game. People just mad that this game is moving back towards an MMO. That was a disaster the Devs admitted it was. If they don't like that they are making MMO content in an MMO again then they are free to leave anytime although they are still getting story. The game will be fine. I rather have continually updates than a flashy expac till the content cycle is done. MM Gods still will be realized. As a raider I'm Super pumped for the new bosses.

 

 

Also, UCs from MM is lit.

Edited October 11, 2017 by FerkWork

[Sargrith]

To be honest most of the complaints are those that want story only cancer again. If you don't like that they are making MMO content in an MMO then you can leave. The game will be fine.

 

The game is not fine, server mergers scream otherwise. They are adding any content at a snails pace if they are adding it at all. Right now we have only their word they are going to do so. They have made other statements that ended up untrue, or misleading. Why should we assume they are speaking clearly now?

 

CXP buff per character at 300....well that wasn’t the truth of it now was it? Operation one boss at a time so we can get it all built by end of year....just not this year apparently.

 

At this point how much new content are you really sure you will get by end of year, and how much by early next year? Can you be certain of any of it?

 

I don’t know why they seem to always end up doing less or different from what they state but there is an element of RNG in their developement that seems unfortunate and unpredictable.

 

And its not at all about wanting more solo content, it about wanting good content and in a timely fashion. This one operation over two years is not working.

[kodrac]

I think MMOs in general are dead. Which leaves the producers/developers of MMOs still in operation, including this one, with a conundrum of what to do and where to go in the future. Since there really is no immediate outlook, the future could be anything or nothing which leaves them guessing. They brainstorm an idea and run with it just to see where it goes. If it fails it fails and move on to the next idea. MMOs seem to have just enough of a following due to their IPs (Star Wars, Elder Scrolls, Warcraft, etc) and not necessarily their game play, to continue on in this holding pattern indefinitely. Edited October 11, 2017 by kodrac

[Mubrak]

Well... https://i.imgur.com/SOaSN9O.png

Remember what happened to the last EA studio that couldn't fix weird eyes in a timely manner?

[TUXs]

I'm a bit confused, the other day you seemed really happy with what they are doing, now it's the opposite again. Not that you can't be unhappy, but I think I often enough see posts by you on the same day that contradict each other.

 

But maybe it's just me misunderstanding what you really mean.🤔

The outright lie we were told about the CXP boost did me in. We were told it would be 25% PER 300 we had...it's not. We were lied to. I believed Keith was going to be a man of his word - he's not. I'm extremely disappointed with Bioware. I don't mind delays, I don't care if they need extra time...but lying to me is not okay.

[Aowin]

The game is not fine, server mergers scream otherwise. They are adding any content at a snails pace if they are adding it at all. Right now we have only their word they are going to do so. They have made other statements that ended up untrue, or misleading. Why should we assume they are speaking clearly now?

 

CXP buff per character at 300....well that wasn’t the truth of it now was it? Operation one boss at a time so we can get it all built by end of year....just not this year apparently.

 

At this point how much new content are you really sure you will get by end of year, and how much by early next year? Can you be certain of any of it?

 

I don’t know why they seem to always end up doing less or different from what they state but there is an element of RNG in their developement that seems unfortunate and unpredictable.

 

And its not at all about wanting more solo content, it about wanting good content and in a timely fashion. This one operation over two years is not working.

 

Spot on. What we are getting is not adequate and arguably not of a high quality. This pivot back to “group content” has been broken promises more than a positive redirection of the game.

 

It’s obvious nobody will agree entirely on the direction this game should take. However, I doubt many would argue the game is doing well and satisfying the majority of players.

 

No demographic of the player base is getting a lot of content. The jack of all trades, master of none, approach to development is not a way to sustain this game. The only thing being accomplished is turning players away.

[YlliyaXor]

I think it will be alright when disintegration brings UCs to the general non-PvP public

 

Doubt it, instead of just junking the old gear when you get new, you have to exchange the old gear for the new, not too complicated but not exactly practical.

 

The only point of this system is preventing players from jumping stages, you can't start grinding for the best gear right away you have to get three full sets that you know you will discard.

[Vhaegrant]

The outright lie we were told about the CXP boost did me in. We were told it would be 25% PER 300 we had...it's not. We were lied to. I believed Keith was going to be a man of his word - he's not. I'm extremely disappointed with Bioware. I don't mind delays, I don't care if they need extra time...but lying to me is not okay.

 

It's a shame that when they release information early they get crucified for not giving the specifics.

I suspect this is a huge part of the previous Dev induced silence on all matters until the content hit the servers.

If you want more open frequent communication you have to be willing to take some gaps in detail.

[YlliyaXor]

Agree to disagree. All of KOTET, since its initial launch, has been dedicated to "group content." That's why we have received uprisings, a new flashpoint, a new daily area, and a new raid. Based on the fact that this game seems to be more dead than its ever been before, I don't think the focus on group content is actually working. I think many who actually were advocates of group content left years ago when KOTFE launched. Truth be told, adding a couple raid bosses here and there or a few new flashpoints is not going to fix what is wrong with this game..

 

Actually that's exactly my opinion too, the skepticism is about the mass appeal of group content, if group content was that popular they wouldn't use companions as lure for grouping, they know the players preferences they just won't/can't cater to them.

[Quraswren]

swtor is not dead but it is not in a good place and doesn't look to be going anywhere good.

 

This article was posted long ago. Throw in swtor when lotro is used and you will have what is happening to swtor.

 

https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2014/10/lord-of-the-rings-online-and-maintenance-mode.html

 

This being a more pertantent quote:

 

"As the game more clearly enters a holding pattern, something which is clearly not healthy but doesn’t put it in danger of actually dying, the attempts to get you into the shop get more and more brazen. Which just makes the community double down on their jaded, weary anger. They’re angry at each other and they’re angry at Turbine (insert SWTOR here), all overlain with a constant nostalgia for the good days, the old days, when the level cap was 50, group content existed, and there was no cash shop."

 

Dead? Nope. swtor isn't going anywhere but it's not good behind the scenes at bioware nor is it good for the gamer overall. SW fans will hang on hoping for better but in reality, just like what we keep getting. It will be substandard, manipulation and at time, blatant lies they are caught in (just like the CXP bonus) as well as other important information that conveniently gets left out (aka umbara and how we got the SH. OR hoving to buy into iokath dailies).

 

Don't look for things to really change around here. Not to really benefit the game anyway. Like someone else said, there will always be that "but" shortly after bioware says something. Gamers just wont know it till it's too late.

 

SNIP...

Truth be told, adding a couple raid bosses here and there or a few new flashpoints is not going to fix what is wrong with this game.

 

SNIP....

 

Truth be told, adding story alone isn't going to help either.

 

Reliance on story and not enough group content is what drove the game to F2P faster than another game I know of save one and back then we had better story and more of it than we do know. (AKA class stories)

Read ohlens words on how that went down with no end game content and back then no GF to do what little tey did have.

 

http://www.pcgamer.com/bioware-gdc-panel-star-wars-the-old-republic/

 

All of Kotet/kotfe & iokath did nothing to revitalize swtor and never will. Same reason it couldn't sustain the game when it launch. once and done in most cases and not worth doing repetitively. Too easily consumed. No reward.

 

Content has to come in all areas and it has to be worth repeating. Occasionally it also has to be new as relying on old stale content or rehashed content will always fail to satisfy the gamer as well.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Quraswren

[kodrac]

It's a shame that when they release information early they get crucified for not giving the specifics.

I suspect this is a huge part of the previous Dev induced silence on all matters until the content hit the servers.

If you want more open frequent communication you have to be willing to take some gaps in detail.

 

Yup, that's why I said they can't speak generally and expect us to understand when the specifics come out later. It's just not good communication. They communicate half-assed and don't get it when people feel lied to. So then they take the silent route to avoid being crucified and never seem to figure it out. It's not rocket science. Say what you mean and mean what you say.

[Vhaegrant]

I think MMOs in general are dead. Which leaves the producers/developers of MMOs still in operation, including this one, with a conundrum of what to do and where to go in the future. Since there really is no immediate outlook, the future could be anything or nothing which leaves them guessing. They brainstorm an idea and run with it just to see where it goes. If it fails it fails and move on to the next idea. MMOs seem to have just enough of a following due to their IPs (Star Wars, Elder Scrolls, Warcraft, etc) and not necessarily their game play, to continue on in this holding pattern indefinitely.

 

I think the biggest failing of SWTOR is that it railroaded the player too much.

While I enjoy Bioware storytelling, and there are some elements of the vanilla game that contained some of my favourite Star Wars moments (prior to Rogue One), it still had a high handed approach to player input.

 

Just remember when the game first launched the end tier sets had fixed stats so all ACs were running around in the same gear. Remnants of that mindset still linger with the refusal to allow characters to equip (or unequip and still be able to use abilities) weapons.

 

A wider race selection, nope sorry 'You'd get bored of hearing a Wookie in conversations and romances options would be wierd' um, Devs seriously let me be the judge of that. I can level a character from 1 to 70 and barely touch a cutscene now we have level sync on worlds. Not to mention the instant level 60/65 tokens. Maybe it's not a big draw for everyone, but the diversity and ability to actually play as a Rodian, Wookiee, Trandoshan, Nautolan core Star Wars races... but you do get to play as a blind or green humans. Wow, pushing the boat out there.

 

If you want player retention you need to get the players to buy into your product long term and nothing helps that more than giving them a greater feeling of ownership over their characters.

[DieAlteHexe]

To be honest a lot of the few complaints I see are those that want story only cancer again not realizing how massively it failed and almost killed the game. People just mad that this game is moving back towards an MMO. That was a disaster the Devs admitted it was. If they don't like that they are making MMO content in an MMO again then they are free to leave anytime although they are still getting story. The game will be fine. I rather have continually updates than a flashy expac till the content cycle is done. MM Gods still will be realized. As a raider I'm Super pumped for the new bosses.

 

 

Also, UCs from MM is lit.

 

Interesting viewpoint considering that the game, as released, was heavily story oriented (eight of them to be exact) which were also woven in and amongst content. Story is a mainstay in this game, especially with the SW franchise. This was, then as now, as much MMO content as raiding/grouping etc.

 

The funneling from eight "paths" down to the KoTFE etc. was not well received, understandably so as we were spoilt by having our own journeys which were different enough to satisfy most. The game has been an MMO from day one since MMO really is only indicative of the ability to have "massively multiplayers" online simultaneously and not, necessarily, as many would try to assert, group/raid/OP oriented etc. It can, of course, include those but the definition does not restrict to group content. Some MMOs tried that and found out to their detriment that defining an MMO as such lost them a lot of players. Wise ones try to address the different playstyles.

 

That said, I don't think the game is dying. I think it caught a rotten case of "crap! now what do we do" and started flailing about trying to satisfy everyone. Rarely works. That they appear to be settling down and focusing on one aspect at a time tells me that they realise that there are areas for improvement. Good.

 

I wish them luck both for selfish reasons and because, despite what some will try to put forth, they don't delight in thwarting players' desires. This is their livelihood and they aren't likely to be mucking about with that for grins and *****.

[xordevoreaux]

Interesting viewpoint considering that the game, as released, was heavily story oriented (eight of them to be exact) which were also woven in and amongst content. Story is a mainstay in this game, especially with the SW franchise. This was, then as now, as much MMO content as raiding/grouping etc.

 

The funneling from eight "paths" down to the KoTFE etc. was not well received, understandably so as we were spoilt by having our own journeys which were different enough to satisfy most. The game has been an MMO from day one since MMO really is only indicative of the ability to have "massively multiplayers" online simultaneously and not, necessarily, as many would try to assert, group/raid/OP oriented etc. It can, of course, include those but the definition does not restrict to group content. Some MMOs tried that and found out to their detriment that defining an MMO as such lost them a lot of players. Wise ones try to address the different playstyles.

 

That said, I don't think the game is dying. I think it caught a rotten case of "crap! now what do we do" and started flailing about trying to satisfy everyone. Rarely works. That they appear to be settling down and focusing on one aspect at a time tells me that they realise that there are areas for improvement. Good.

 

I wish them luck both for selfish reasons and because, despite what some will try to put forth, they don't delight in thwarting players' desires. This is their livelihood and they aren't likely to be mucking about with that for grins and *****.

I agree with all of this and would add that saying a game is dead doesn't spur the devs to make it otherwise.

Saying what one likes about the game helps more.

[ExarSun]

Aowin is spot on. Kudos for the post.

This one guy that cries for the devs to foucs only on puny bit of group content and urges the others that don't like it to leave, may soon find himself with very few ppl to play that group content. MMO's in the sense they were in the previous decade are gone. Studios who failed to realise this...well many examples out there.

Edited October 11, 2017 by ExarSun

[Sargrith]

Yup, that's why I said they can't speak generally and expect us to understand when the specifics come out later. It's just not good communication. They communicate half-assed and don't get it when people feel lied to. So then they take the silent route to avoid being crucified and never seem to figure it out. It's not rocket science. Say what you mean and mean what you say.

 

Agreed, and I would add.....they communicated the coming change only a week or so ago....its not like a promise from months ago that they had to adjust along the way, no they said it a week ago and left out some very important information. There is no real excuse for it, they rightly should be held accountable for this failure to communicate.

[damonskye]

Please, any clarification would be greatly appreciated. I just don't understand where this game is going anymore. Are we going to have to wait until the following November in 2018 for a new expansion?

 

The sad fact is, the development team in this game is a skeleton crew who breathe their own vapors. The only reason -- the ONLY reason -- why people log into this game anymore is the name Star Wars. Without that cachet, the game would indeed be dead.

 

It's not dead yet but it's on severe life support. I defy anyone to give me an example of meaningful content released to the subscriber base in the past six months, beyond one throwaway flashpoint and one operation boss.

[TUXs]

It's a shame that when they release information early they get crucified for not giving the specifics.

I suspect this is a huge part of the previous Dev induced silence on all matters until the content hit the servers.

If you want more open frequent communication you have to be willing to take some gaps in detail.

There was no gap - it was just a lie. They are getting what they give.

[Costello]

Lets not also forget the multitude of other lies about more communication, responding to feedback or even taking on board what the customers/players are saying.

 

There is a thread about server mergers and its constantly said we aren't ready to discuss and then there is a blog saying how its all going to go down. Wait the last thing you said not ready to discuss and then the next your saying this is how it is. That wasn't engaging the customer.

 

While the road map thread got a few pointless answers that really don't make any difference and completely missed the glaring question of, 'so No content in 5.5 and then incredibly little through to March 2018 what the hell is going on?' Aside from the few white knights that cling to the future always being better and now defending the game based on some stuff said in the live stream which is so far out and so undecided it didn't make it into the road map. Seriously new companions coming back, when how and how much interaction will we have. Has the VO or script been done yet?

 

It seems the devs are unware how bad the game is since 5.2 and that nothing in that road map makes it seem like there is much to get excited about so nothing much till Mid 2018. It can't be lost on them that they are now going down to 5 servers due to a lack of population and there might just be a correlation between that and how little content they have released this year. And the solution to keep offering almost nothing and thinking people are suddenly going to resub so they can be owned in a new PvP map.

[Amantionus]

I lived on a submarine for years... I was forced to socialize with some people I utterly detested... Gaming is a release for me. I like being able to go through a game solo or with a friend or two. Not a bunch of random people that group up to blaze through everything to the final level. (I admit it, I am an introvert, and frankly, I just don't like most people either, I prefer cats and dogs for company). One of the reasons I started playing long ago (yes, I went on a very long break) was the story-line. I like having a story for each character, the (limited) feeling of immersion in a world that lets me create a unique plot line for a character. Seeing the multiple lines dropped in favor of a single line and the changes to the old abilities system (I liked making fully unique builds, even if by most standards they were weak, they did the job for me and I liked them, which is what matters) is why I left for a while (over a year I am sure, maybe more like two).

 

I have not found any games that satisfied me in the long run. They seem overly focused on forced socialization with others (I had enough of that in the Navy, you share a bed with another man that you hate for 9 months and see how you feel). I missed having a good story. So I came back and started over.

 

I don't think SWTOR is dead. But it does seem to have gotten a long way from its' roots. I personally think that while group content is needed, it is the individual story lines that drive most players. The evidence I have in anecdotal, but Star Wars fans in general seem more interested in content and story than just flashy special effects. I suspect that carries over to many that play SWTOR.

[Transcendent]

Is BioWare that constrained now when it comes to money invested in this game?

 

I'm not convinced that they have the development team in place to support an MMO title. I get the impression most of BioWare's resources are directed towards other projects in the pipeline to meet publisher deadlines. SWTOR feels very much like they're in some form of holding pattern, where they have some resources available, but not enough to produce the amount of content an MMO title really needs to keep things fresh for all types of players.

 

That and they've wasted development resources on the (subjectively) awful Command Crates etc, and development resources fixing bugs that didn't require fixing (leaving age old ones still prevailing years later...).

 

Priorities seem to be misplaced in some areas, if they stopped fannying around with half measures on GC and just fixed it properly from the offset (in other words listened to the feedback players gave and acted upon it) then that would have been put to bed a very long time ago. Like literally one month after it was released, yet here we are still providing feedback on how to improve it - which generally remains the same as it was when it was announced. All those months of wasted developer time due to them doubling down on being obstinate.

 

We've seen some improvements in other areas of the game, however every single easy win for BioWare still gets ignored, or messed up by them. So, nothing has changed in your absence Aowin.

[Tsillah]

It's worth pointing out he was referring to "only content that is notable for early 2018." He's not referring to what is coming for the rest of this year. From what BioWare has stated, only a story FP and two new raid bosses are planned for early 2018 at this time. There could be more as we get closer to 2018, but that's all we know at this time.

Ahh you're right. I misread that. I thought he was talking about Umbara for some reason.

 

To expand on the bits about next year take this into consideration also:

More multiplayer gameplay experiences for both PvP and PvE

 

I wonder what their definition is of experiences. My guess is that they will announce 5.7 somewhere in december/january to come out in march/april and then the next expansion is up for June or something like that. I also don't expect much more in the ways of actual content before the next expansion.

 

Mind you there is a lot of QoL stuff they're doing and that's cool, but sadly a lot of it is either long overdue or has been wasted on fixing GC and it's also not new content. So I definitely agree with the overall sentiment.

 

I've felt from RotHC that expansions were not robust enough and I'd rather have paid 40 bucks for expansions than get these mini-expansions for free as it were.

[xordevoreaux]

 

I've felt from RotHC that expansions were not robust enough and I'd rather have paid 40 bucks for expansions than get these mini-expansions for free as it were.

 

I'd be 3 expansions behind then, I can barely afford the subscription.

[ivanhedgehog]

It's a shame that when they release information early they get crucified for not giving the specifics.

I suspect this is a huge part of the previous Dev induced silence on all matters until the content hit the servers.

If you want more open frequent communication you have to be willing to take some gaps in detail.

 

1 week and you are trying to tell us he didnt know what would be in the patch that he had to sign off on? Then hiding the patch notes and trying to pass that off? Either he is in charge or he is not. He outright lied to his customers and there is no real way to sugarcoat it.

[Tsillah]

I'd be 3 expansions behind then, I can barely afford the subscription.

I appreciate that not everybody has a lot of money but it's not strange to ask 40 bucks for an expansion. BW never did cause they probably figured their expansions weren't going to be accepted at that price considering how small they are compared to other games. This was probably triggered by a lack of resources and investment. I get it, but it's not what I wanted as a customer.

 

I also don't mind that at some point older expansions go for cheap or free with a sub when the next expansion comes in. Hell, they can keep the content as part of the sub and sell some collector's package with goodies to blow my cash on just to support the game so that others can have it for cheap.

 

What I don't like is spending 150 bucks a month on cartel packs to support the game and see BW not investing into the game. Interestingly since I stopped over a year ago and the new expansion really hurt the game, I've seen BW invest more into it than they have in years.

 

I guess it shows that if people leave they will invest but if you invest into the game they just take your money and don't care about keeping the game fresh and healthy. This game stands on the edge of sword constantly because they've kept it there.

 

If my spending makes it cheaper for others to play the game, that's great....as long as they invest into the game. They haven't taken my commitment seriously. I'm just asking them to do so anyway. I have money to burn on this game, but I have to feel like they take me seriously as a customer. They haven't so I stopped spending that cash. I do the occasional direct sale now. I don't mind those. But for the rest I spend the minimum possible because I feel they haven't appreciated spending on this game.