No expansion, server merges, and barely any new content announced. Is SWTOR dead?

[Aowin]

I told you this before it was news earlier in the thread and you discredited me.

That was only my own thought and not that I was a insider.

 

I discredited you regarding what, exactly? If you are referring to Visceral's game, we don't know how that's going to turn out. It's too early to tell and that game has been indefinitely pushed back from being released.

 

Even if though, Visceral's game getting major restructure only further delays it, it's not an easy and quick thing to turn it into GAAS title. It's likely not coming out for another 3 years at this stage

 

That's true, although it won't necessarily protect SWTOR from an untimely fate. Especially if Anthem ends up being a huge success next year, EA might just pull the plug on SWTOR and expect most to either play Star Wars: Battlefront II or Anthem until potentially the Visceral game is released. This is of course assuming the Visceral game is going to be the kind of experience that could, in theory, replace SWTOR.

[GalacticKegger]

Exactly.

 

I have a distinct feeling that we're going to have too change the definition of "dead" sooner or later.

 

Though if im perfectly honest I wouldn't be suprised if "daed" becomes an actual word to describe something that isnt dead but is because drama thread lol.

 

I mean yeah this isn't a "drama" thread but you get my point

Go with only mostly dead. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive. Edited October 19, 2017 by GalacticKegger

[DWho]

Go with only mostly dead. There's a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive.

 

That reminds me of a skit from Monty Python and the Holy Grail:

[SuperJoule]

SWTOR is the fourth biggest MMO out there, problem is that the genre isnt doing well.

 

I also think that if they really wanted to increase the playerbase, they should all together remove subscription and subscription perks.

 

This would let a lot of casuals play the game from time to time, without having to resub everytime. The subscription feature is a huge part of the reason why the game is dying, why would anyone who did not already put so much money into SWTOR, care to play it anymore? The game, is honestly not that good compared to other games out there.

Full F2P would let the game get A LOT of players who wants to enjoy an MMO, and Star Wars, without having to worry about throwing away their money.

 

Now, how would they make money?

More people playing, more people buying customization options, might even be bigger profit then what they have right now. I couldnt swear to this, but given that in the last years, microtransactions has tripled the gaming industries income, it would not surprise me. Companies like EA even have them in AAA games. Which is absolutely appaling, but I just boicot those games.

 

In my opinion, the subscription idea is just outdated, people dont want to invest, when the reality is that MMO's arent that popular anymore.

 

Obviously, EA would never do this.

They would rather profit as long as possible from a sinking ship, then try to save it longterm.

This is EA in a nutshell.

 

I mean, look at EA as a company:

 

FIFA, MADDEN, NHL gets a new AAA game EVERY YEAR.

They still impliment pay2win options and microtransactions in every single one of them in the later years.

In a AAA game, that you already can purchase for up to 90$

 

Look at how quick they were to dismiss Andromida. "It's a failure, no lets not save it. Scrap it all together"

Look at how little interest EA actually has for the little guy, you need to think about that before you're gonna make your point.

 

To summarize, if your ideas here on this forum does not consist with EA getting profit.

You might save yourself the trouble and the whine, because it's going in the "thats a load of crap pile" down at EA.

Edited October 19, 2017 by SuperJoule

[TUXs]

SWTOR is the fourth biggest MMO out there

This is the second time I've seen someone claim that this week...what are you guys using for your source? Are you comparing just "MMOs" that claim to be MMOs in their names, or are you factoring in what MMOs are morphing into as well (Destiny style)?

[Sargrith]

This is the second time I've seen someone claim that this week...what are you guys using for your source? Are you comparing just "MMOs" that claim to be MMOs in their names, or are you factoring in what MMOs are morphing into as well (Destiny style)?

 

I don’t know either, maybe if you define MMO in such a way as to eliminate those ahead of it you could get it to 4. I gave a quick look around it seems to rank either 9 or 10 depending on the cite, either way not 4.

[Rion_Starkiller]

I hope the destiny-style FPS MMO model doesn't last. FPS has been around a long time. I have never been a fan.

 

I don't think game companies realize how many people love 3rd person view (and arcade style) games, as evidenced by successes of the indie game market.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Rion_Starkiller

[Transcendent]

The game is dead when I can stop playing / logging in and having fun.

 

I am currently playing and (well, in 5 seconds) about to login. And, I'm going to do so because I find logging in and playing (wait for it) -- fun.

 

Ergo. It is not dead.

 

Four years ago (roughly), I found the game boring. I stopped logging in.

 

Ergo, it was dead to me.

 

It's just not that complicated.

 

Dasty

 

Bingo! We have a winner!

 

Essentially we'll all be able to take away (hopefully) some good memories from this game, long after we've stopped having fun. You know I hate the posters that say "if you don't like it then leave", however taking a break from something that as a player you may have found less enjoyable for any particular personal reasoning is the most sensible course of action. There is nothing to say that some point down the line you may decide to come back when something attracts.

 

It really is that simple.

[DanNV]

This is the second time I've seen someone claim that this week...what are you guys using for your source? Are you comparing just "MMOs" that claim to be MMOs in their names, or are you factoring in what MMOs are morphing into as well (Destiny style)?

 

They are using a very narrow definition. With some googling, I can find articles that show it as the 4th or 5th largest pay-to-play MMO. However, the same articles (for 2016 and 2017) show 6 or 7 of the top 10 as free-to-play and SWTOR doesn't make the top 10 in any of those articles' combined lists of top grossing mmos.

[DarthDymond]

This is the second time I've seen someone claim that this week...what are you guys using for your source? Are you comparing just "MMOs" that claim to be MMOs in their names, or are you factoring in what MMOs are morphing into as well (Destiny style)?

I think they're just still relying on the now 2- or 3-year-old SuperData reports.

[kodrac]

I think they're just still relying on the now 2- or 3-year-old SuperData reports.

 

I'm guessing it's along the lines of WoW >> FF14 >> ESO >> SWTOR as those are the most referenced on these forums.

[GalacticKegger]

This is the second time I've seen someone claim that this week...what are you guys using for your source? Are you comparing just "MMOs" that claim to be MMOs in their names, or are you factoring in what MMOs are morphing into as well (Destiny style)?

I'm not sure what being the nth biggest MMO means anyway. Number of subscribers? Can't be because that's a stat Bioware does not make public so no one but them knows. Revenues? Can't be because BW doesn't specify the game's revenue in their earnings calls either. Full explorable worlds? Incomplete grade as we haven't had a new one in almost 3 years. Number of full dungeons (FPs) ... or full raids (Ops) ... or full battlegrounds & arenas (WZs and GSF)? Ditto. Amount of massively multiplayer content? Ditto again. Story? It's gone from 10 group and solo tracks (8 classes plus Imp & Rep planet tracks) down to 2 group and solo tracks (Imp & Rep planet tracks) then down to essentially 1 solo-only track. Size of the cash shop? Well, we all know that size doesn't matter ...

 

Anyway, it's not about where the game is compared to other games unless weighing other options is being considered. What it IS about though is where the game is compared to where it was because retaining what works (as well as getting rid of what doesn't work) is what retains players. They need to look at the periods 3 months then 6 months after launch, and 3 months then 6 months after each new expansion was released, and compare those subscription and revenue numbers. Those reports will remove the "new release honeymoon" factor from their analytics, and reveal not only when the game was successful, but how and why.

 

This all assumes of course that genuine retention and growth are even on corporate's radar.

Edited October 19, 2017 by GalacticKegger

[Costello]

Dead and dying are just used on the forum to illicit a response hopefully before they get that far.

 

Since none of us know what the minimum number of subscribers or players is required to keep the gaming going we think the worse. What we can be sure is that when no one is logging on the game is dead but it will never get that far before the plug is pulled. Likewise you can be sure that there will at most be a months warning before the plug is pulled.

 

How many direct sale items do you think they will sell after the announcement the servers are being shut down, probably very few. How many subscriptions will they sell if there is no point in grinding CXP cause it will all be deleted before long.

 

The hope that new servers mean faith in the game is likewise a little premature. After all Anthem will need servers, probably newer servers than SWTOR is currently running on. So get them in, get them up and running check them out on tor before using them for Anthem is no bad strategy.

 

The level of new content coming to the game is far more telling than possibly new servers possibly just a line in the roadmap, who knows what that means and if they are intended for continued use by Anthem as tor is phased out with a couple of flashpoints and an op boss.

[DieAlteHexe]

Dead and dying are just used on the forum to illicit a response hopefully before they get that far.

 

Since none of us know what the minimum number of subscribers or players is required to keep the gaming going we think the worse. What we can be sure is that when no one is logging on the game is dead but it will never get that far before the plug is pulled. Likewise you can be sure that there will at most be a months warning before the plug is pulled.

 

How many direct sale items do you think they will sell after the announcement the servers are being shut down, probably very few. How many subscriptions will they sell if there is no point in grinding CXP cause it will all be deleted before long.

 

The hope that new servers mean faith in the game is likewise a little premature. After all Anthem will need servers, probably newer servers than SWTOR is currently running on. So get them in, get them up and running check them out on tor before using them for Anthem is no bad strategy.

 

The level of new content coming to the game is far more telling than possibly new servers possibly just a line in the roadmap, who knows what that means and if they are intended for continued use by Anthem as tor is phased out with a couple of flashpoints and an op boss.

 

As it was in the beginning, so shall it be in the end.

 

IOW, people (amusingly some of the same people too) have been claiming the game is dead or dying for nigh unto six years now. Six. Years.

 

It *is* aging, slowing down but, unlike some, it's not in maint. mode yet which is indicative of life remaining in the old thing.

 

I would swear off reading the "game is dying" threads but I sometimes am amused and bemused by the thinking that some folks come up with; pro and con the issue.

 

It's not dead yet.

[Aowin]

I see that quite a few posters are getting hung up on semantics of defining "death" for this game, so I'll make it very simple.

 

MMOs are a living, breathing service. In order for an MMO to continue to thrive and progress, it must continue to be updated and receive content. An MMO that stagnates content-wise, even if it is not shut down, is as good as "dead" from a development standpoint in most cases. No, I'm not counting updates with re-used assets on the Cartel Market as "content."

 

The reason this thread was created, and the questions I was posing, is whether this game has a legitimate future regarding content updates. Next to nothing has been confirmed for early 2018, and there is no official confirmation of an expansion.

 

This is rather troubling, as we've had an expansion on an annual basis since 2012. Until we actually know that a "6.0" really exists, this does look like a "dead" MMO in terms of development.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Aowin

[Qouivandes]

-=snip because quoting long quotes to say a few sentences is irksome to me=-

this is actually post number 120 in this thread and on page 3 for some who knows for others

im not sure what to say other than paradigm shift occurred this day. i am not sure if i just wanted to ignore or just flatly refused to accept, but, this is right. and its also most likely the underlying reason why i have been doing everything i could in order to NOT start the last two expansions on any other character than my Knight. I dont even give companions who I wont get back gifts anymore; or even use them doing whatever.

 

edit: Im probably old school (and by the reading, i am) but i prefer subscription over outright free to play. My kids, though, like to jump from game to game to game. My son, at times, will play four or five titles at a time. Me, just this one....and the occasional fallout. Honestly, I will most likely stay here for a long while, but i feel like a freeloader when i play FtP titles and feel as if they could do more if they had a sub. I also loath first person shooters, but did have an education when i figured out that Anthem will be doing the same thing that GW2(?) was/is doing on their "open world" format. (i forge the actual name given to an environment thats MMO like until you leave hubs and then it becomes limited instanced. I like seeing other people

 

edit2: didnt realize the post i quoted wasnt this far into the conversation...it was post 120.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Qouivandes

[DarthDymond]

I see that quite a few posters are getting hung up on semantics of defining "death" for this game, so I'll make it very simple.

 

MMOs are a living, breathing service. In order for an MMO to continue to thrive and progress, it must continue to be updated and receive content. An MMO that stagnates content-wise, even if it is not shut down, is as good as "dead" from a development standpoint in most cases. No, I'm not counting updates with re-used assets on the Cartel Market as "content."

 

The reason this thread was created, and the questions I was posing, is whether this game has a legitimate future regarding content updates. Next to nothing has been confirmed for early 2018, and there is no official confirmation of an expansion.

 

This is rather troubling, as we've had an expansion on an annual basis since 2012. Until we actually know that a "6.0" really exists, this does look like a "dead" MMO in terms of development.

Two new Flashpoints, new Warzone, new Galactic Starfighter map, continuing production on the Operation. Content has slowed, it does not look dead in terms of development.

[DieAlteHexe]

Two new Flashpoints, new Warzone, new Galactic Starfighter map, continuing production on the Operation. Content has slowed, it does not look dead in terms of development.

 

Was just typing out this list. I think he's on about *expansions* though.

[Aowin]

Two new Flashpoints, new Warzone, new Galactic Starfighter map, continuing production on the Operation. Content has slowed, it does not look dead in terms of development.

 

Most of that is for this year. The scraps are for "early 2018," as I already pointed out. I'm talking about beyond what the road map obviously already illustrated. We don't know anything, other than empty promises that BioWare has made. Again, until we actually know more than what's coming in the next few months, this game looks "dead" from a development standpoint.

[DarthDymond]

Most of that is for this year. The scraps are for "early 2018," as I already pointed out. I'm talking about beyond what the road map obviously already illustrated. We don't know anything, other than empty promises that BioWare has made. Again, until we actually know more than what's coming in the next few months, this game looks "dead" from a development standpoint.

BW is doing Roadmaps roughly by quarter, therefore the game looks dead?

[DanNV]

BW is doing Roadmaps roughly by quarter, therefore the game looks dead?

 

For him, maybe. I'd say it's more based on population, content cadence, etc.

 

However, as to raod maps, BW should be able to put one out for a year or more at any point with only enough notice to remove confidential info and the caveat that the farther out things are the more subject to change they are. If BW doesn't have such a roadmap up on the wall where everyone can see it, they have no long term plans and everyone is off doing their own thing instead of having everyone going the same direction.

[cagthehack]

Most of that is for this year. The scraps are for "early 2018," as I already pointed out. I'm talking about beyond what the road map obviously already illustrated. We don't know anything, other than empty promises that BioWare has made. Again, until we actually know more than what's coming in the next few months, this game looks "dead" from a development standpoint.

 

It's pretty obvious EA is stringing us along. For what.. I don't know. I can sure speculate though.. maybe a new SW MMO or Anthem? Or maybe it's just as simple are license requirements. Maybe EA committed to a time table? Who knows?

 

But what I do know, compared to other games (WOW, ESO, Eve, even LOTRO) SWTOR's development is moving at a snail's pace.

Edited October 19, 2017 by cagthehack

[Tsillah]

Most of that is for this year. The scraps are for "early 2018," as I already pointed out. I'm talking about beyond what the road map obviously already illustrated. We don't know anything, other than empty promises that BioWare has made. Again, until we actually know more than what's coming in the next few months, this game looks "dead" from a development standpoint.

And how is this different from the last 6 years?

[Aowin]

It's pretty obvious EA is stringing us along. For what.. I don't know. I can sure speculate though.. maybe a new SW MMO or Anthem? Or maybe it's just as simple are license requirements. Maybe EA committed to a time table? Who knows?

 

But what I do know, compared to other games (WOW, ESO, Eve, even LOTRO) SWTOR's development is moving at a snail's pace.

 

Yep. Something has definitely changed, and we are purposely being left in the dark.

 

And how is this different from the last 6 years?

 

Quite a lot, actually. As I've stated several times already, we've had an expansion release on an annual basis since 2012. We also knew many months ahead of time before a new expansion released. This is why it's unlikely that a new expansion is coming Spring 2018, as some are hopelessly praying for. There just doesn't seem to be any cohesive plan for this game, and we've never had this kind of drought in the six years this game has been online. Something is definitely different.

[DragonLadyK]

. The game will be fine. I rather have continually updates than a flashy expac till the content cycle is done. MM Gods still will be realized. As a raider I'm Super pumped for the new bosses.

 

 

Also, UCs from MM is lit.

 

Anything that supports being an altoholic is lit.

 

I actually really like this format. You have some quests (Iokath) then an op. Then you have some conversation s, flashpoint with cutscenes, conversation, flashpoint. It reminds me a LOT of the Prologue to SOR. That was four flashpoints, so we have at least two more to stay to form, I think. The story itself is tons better than KOTFE. It was great seeing Saganu again, for example.

 

I am actually hopeful. The game is headed in a good direction.