No expansion, server merges, and barely any new content announced. Is SWTOR dead?

[Transcendent]

I feel that I have a different view on how things have gone this year.

 

Enlightening. I think maybe you've missed your true calling in life.

[kodrac]

Enlightening. I think maybe you've missed your true calling in life.

 

I initially skimmed over it looking for a TL;DR but went back and that was great. Many LOLs were had.

[Aowin]

[snip]

 

I don't know the current Producer of SWTOR and I won't assume he's solely to blame for all of the game's current problems. However, this post was gold. I definitely can say I preferred the monthly chapter updates with KOTFE far more than the broken promises, delays, and barely any content over months that we have received with KOTET.

 

Not everyone may like the story, but at least we had new story content every single month with KOTFE. With KOTET, we've received barely anything and the timetable is always "to be determined."

[TUXs]

I feel that I have a different view on how things have gone this year.

 

Long long ago in a forum not so very far away, or more precisely early in 2017 a prophet came to the people of forum land and he declared that he would lead them. And so the faithful rejoiced, despite knowing next to nothing about this prophet they declared that because he was a gamer like them that he would right the wrongs and make things great. So the prophets came to the people and his first action was to delay the launch of the next update.

 

And the people rejoiced for he had used the magic words bugs and quality and the high priests of the prophet had told him that as long as he said that he would be loved for you could always delay any deadline as long as the faithful were told it was to combat the evil bugs and to ensure quality. It sure as hell didn't need to be true but as long as the prophet said it the faithful would believe him.

 

5.2 was released to the people of forum land and they were mostly disappointed. The long written about return of a favourite companion had been relegated to a cameo, a cameo identical to the other returning companion showing a lack of any effort. While the story seemed to be inconclusive, choices lacked any meaningful impact and the new daily area was ruled by the evil god rng, bugs and some daily quests costs significantly more than they reward. But the faithful would blame the evil one who came before, this could not be their prophets doing and so they rejoiced that this would be the last of the disappointments. For the prophet also spoke to them and said that while only one single op boss had been given unto them by the end of the year there would be 5 such bosses! And the people interested in raiding rejoiced though many could not understand how interested they could possibly be after no new raids for 2 years.

 

Then the prophet came to the people with promises of words of the future, however this was also delayed. His father had come to visit for 3 days so had delayed the words of the prophet by 3 weeks. However when the heretics questioned the maths they were shouted down for family should always come first over a game. The faithful had misunderstood that working on a game was still work but they would not let their faith be called into quest and they rallied behind 'family comes first.'

 

But finally the roadmap would arrive and it was rather disappointing. However the faithful would not be deterred, here was their messiah, he played the game, he cared and he would make everything great. This roadmap was only light because the next one would bring the promised return of so much good stuff.

 

And so update 5.3 was launched and no one really knows much about it as it had an op boss no one bothered with and a stronghold that was bugged and turns out not that interesting.

 

But then update 5.4 was brought to the people, and there were many unhappy people about how the story played out with calls of 'That makes no sense' and '***' and 'How can you take that companion away when you have only added one companion all year.' And so the high priests took to 'twitter' and said that God worked in mysterious ways. And work in mysterious ways he did, for he included a bug that made the grinding of CXP good and plentiful. Upon seeing this the prophet tried to stop this, but when unable to do so told the people how he was infavour of the plentiful bounty and supported it. There was also some concern over the home the prophet had led the people to as it appeared after some work to get it, it could not be used as it was over cap. But the people rejoiced over cap meant they must have had a plentiful number of homes.

 

All the while the evil ministrations of the one who came before would plague the chosen people and the servers would be beset on all sides by server issues, bugs and silence from their prophet and his high priests as they kept their heads down.

 

Until finally the prophet would come to the people of forum land again with his words, a new roadmap! And this one would appear to be even more lacking than the last. With the next update being nothing but nerfs and pvp changes. But there was a glimmer of hope as he spoke of increased CXP gain by having any character at rank 300. And the faithful rejoiced and clung to the idea that 1 x op boss, 1 x flash point and 2 x pvp style maps was vast amounts of content.

 

Then the high priests took to the stage and made some vague promises that are clearly so far out they didn't factor into the roadmap. But it allowed the faithful a year of being able to talk about how great things would be when this future content arrived! And the faithful rejoiced for there was vague hope that companions would return and class stories would be discussed.

 

But then tragedy struck, the prophets people turned on him and turned his words to lies! Not Characters at rank 300 but individual base classes at 300. And worse the plentiful bounty the prophet had allowed his people to receive from doing daily quests was taken from them and returned to 75 cxp. Worse yet the highlight of the update was 'Double XP' the only thing to get excited about in the entire update had nothing to do with the update and had been down to extended down time the last time there was double XP. And to add misery the prophet told the people of forum land that his op designer had betrayed him and there would be no completed operation by the end of the year!

 

And some of the faithtful still rejoiced because 1x op boss, 1x flashpoint, 1 x pvp map (which was being worked on back in SOR hence its set on Yavin 4, but didn't met the cut then but now is great) and 1 x gsf map (which even as a fleet admiral and 5 to 1 kill ratio I can't be bothered to play any more) was great content and showed that the prophet was great and good and would say all. And any failings were with the one who had come before who had delivered 9 chapters and monthly chapters after that along with additional alert style content. But he clearly did all the harm and the prophet was good.

Worth the read...and sadly accurate.

[Dayshadow]

Being online and receiving updates hardly means they are alive or even healthy. With the exception of WoW, all of those MMOs may as well be dead. League of Legends is a MOBA, so I'm not sure why you included that on your list.

 

Isn't that what I said? Making money, getting updates and having people on your servers playing = dead.

 

You people not so good at reading, eh?

[menofhorror]

Having been in the s'ware dev business, I take especial umbrage when I see people ranting about how devs and other employees of a company are "just out to screw them" and "don't care". This is usually so false it's not funny. This is not a glamorous business (unless you REALLY luck out) . It is long hours, devotion to the goal, frustrations and highs. Common sense should dictate that it's utterly ridiculous for a studio to conspire to screw over their customers.

 

I believe, firmly, that BW is caught between us, EA and creativity. I can only imagine how they must feel seeing some of the vile stuff that gets posted here. And by "vile" I don't mean critical, that's fine and should be heeded.

 

I hate seeing mega-corps like EA suck the soul out of things and I think EA is sucking really hard right now and has been for awhile.

 

I do agree with you. I have personally no experience on the developer business and how it works but I really think most heard about stories from developers and how it's not easiest job out there. You HAVE to be passionate about games if you want to survive as a developer.

 

But I honestly also don't want to paint EA as the devil as many do as well. Many call them "suits" but you know, leading a business like that, making tough decisions, it's not easy at all. And EA can't just give them unlimited money like the amount Bioware Austin got for launch. They also have to think about the future and the business and it's survival.

 

Without EA swtor would never exist in the first place.

[FerkWork]

I honestly hope you are right for once because your "MMO" crowd is going to have to be the ones to keep the doors open on this game. There is no reason, based on the Roadmap presented so far, for anyone who does story or RP to stay subscribed at least through the end of 2018. Paying $180 a year for recycled group content posing as story is a bit like what you complained abut regarding "no new operations" and "story cancer". I think this game will quickly lose out to other "battle arena" games that are on much more stable engines and are better designed overall than the group content in this game. The "MMO" crowd may come back for the "higher population" but they will find that the reasons they left i the first place have not changed and will leave again for greener pastures.

 

Personally, I intend to enjoy this game for free as long as the lights stay on.

 

They've have a new story with the Chiss whatever that planet was called Corporo. Maybe over dramatics but to have the full experience we can always go 2 years of monthly Ops bosses and PvP maps and nothing else for the full experience. Dramatics aside that the game isn't dying cause everyone else is getting content besides just story people and declaring doom cause it's not bowing down to it,, The game will go on better than 4.0. But have fun you will probable be back. It's all about choice.

Edited October 11, 2017 by FerkWork

[FerkWork]

snip

 

For me and for people I play with he at least delivered MMO content with the limited budget. The previous producer delivered nothing for me, lied, deceived about when if ever they would make new MMO content. An Op to me is greater value than all the worthless SP garbage 4.0 produced. If they deleted 4.0 I wouldn't be even be moved. I will forever remember 4.0 when they tried to force SP only and almost killed the game. Keith delivered everything I wanted returning Justice to the Galaxy. I pour one out for Keith.

 

 

I remember when I and others said KotFE would fail back in 2015 for forcing SP only into an MMO and told to we were wrong.. Now we are here having paid for that but back on track. Story is flavor content is substance. KOTFE nor monthly SP walking simulators wasn't content. This thread is just people wanting to go back toward what lead to this limited budget and declining subs.

Edited October 11, 2017 by FerkWork

[FerkWork]

Isn't that what I said? Making money, getting updates and having people on your servers playing = dead.

 

You people not so good at reading, eh?

 

 

To them unless the game only produces SP Story updates with zero MMO content, the game is dead. They are just upset that KotFE failed as viable alternative to real content.

[FerkWork]

This thread is funny though good laughs OP 10/10 my fries are seasoned enough now.

[Deewe]

I feel that I have a different view on how things have gone this year.

 

Long long ago in a forum not so very far away, or more precisely early in 2017 a prophet came to the people of forum land and he declared that he would lead them. And so the faithful rejoiced, despite knowing next to nothing about this prophet they declared that because he was a gamer like them that he would right the wrongs and make things great. So the prophets came to the people and his first action was to delay the launch of the next update.

 

And the people rejoiced for he had used the magic words bugs and quality and the high priests of the prophet had told him that as long as he said that he would be loved for you could always delay any deadline as long as the faithful were told it was to combat the evil bugs and to ensure quality. It sure as hell didn't need to be true but as long as the prophet said it the faithful would believe him.

 

5.2 was released to the people of forum land and they were mostly disappointed. The long written about return of a favourite companion had been relegated to a cameo, a cameo identical to the other returning companion showing a lack of any effort. While the story seemed to be inconclusive, choices lacked any meaningful impact and the new daily area was ruled by the evil god rng, bugs and some daily quests costs significantly more than they reward. But the faithful would blame the evil one who came before, this could not be their prophets doing and so they rejoiced that this would be the last of the disappointments. For the prophet also spoke to them and said that while only one single op boss had been given unto them by the end of the year there would be 5 such bosses! And the people interested in raiding rejoiced though many could not understand how interested they could possibly be after no new raids for 2 years.

 

Then the prophet came to the people with promises of words of the future, however this was also delayed. His father had come to visit for 3 days so had delayed the words of the prophet by 3 weeks. However when the heretics questioned the maths they were shouted down for family should always come first over a game. The faithful had misunderstood that working on a game was still work but they would not let their faith be called into quest and they rallied behind 'family comes first.'

 

But finally the roadmap would arrive and it was rather disappointing. However the faithful would not be deterred, here was their messiah, he played the game, he cared and he would make everything great. This roadmap was only light because the next one would bring the promised return of so much good stuff.

 

And so update 5.3 was launched and no one really knows much about it as it had an op boss no one bothered with and a stronghold that was bugged and turns out not that interesting.

 

But then update 5.4 was brought to the people, and there were many unhappy people about how the story played out with calls of 'That makes no sense' and '***' and 'How can you take that companion away when you have only added one companion all year.' And so the high priests took to 'twitter' and said that God worked in mysterious ways. And work in mysterious ways he did, for he included a bug that made the grinding of CXP good and plentiful. Upon seeing this the prophet tried to stop this, but when unable to do so told the people how he was infavour of the plentiful bounty and supported it. There was also some concern over the home the prophet had led the people to as it appeared after some work to get it, it could not be used as it was over cap. But the people rejoiced over cap meant they must have had a plentiful number of homes.

 

All the while the evil ministrations of the one who came before would plague the chosen people and the servers would be beset on all sides by server issues, bugs and silence from their prophet and his high priests as they kept their heads down.

 

Until finally the prophet would come to the people of forum land again with his words, a new roadmap! And this one would appear to be even more lacking than the last. With the next update being nothing but nerfs and pvp changes. But there was a glimmer of hope as he spoke of increased CXP gain by having any character at rank 300. And the faithful rejoiced and clung to the idea that 1 x op boss, 1 x flash point and 2 x pvp style maps was vast amounts of content.

 

Then the high priests took to the stage and made some vague promises that are clearly so far out they didn't factor into the roadmap. But it allowed the faithful a year of being able to talk about how great things would be when this future content arrived! And the faithful rejoiced for there was vague hope that companions would return and class stories would be discussed.

 

But then tragedy struck, the prophets people turned on him and turned his words to lies! Not Characters at rank 300 but individual base classes at 300. And worse the plentiful bounty the prophet had allowed his people to receive from doing daily quests was taken from them and returned to 75 cxp. Worse yet the highlight of the update was 'Double XP' the only thing to get excited about in the entire update had nothing to do with the update and had been down to extended down time the last time there was double XP. And to add misery the prophet told the people of forum land that his op designer had betrayed him and there would be no completed operation by the end of the year!

 

And some of the faithtful still rejoiced because 1x op boss, 1x flashpoint, 1 x pvp map (which was being worked on back in SOR hence its set on Yavin 4, but didn't met the cut then but now is great) and 1 x gsf map (which even as a fleet admiral and 5 to 1 kill ratio I can't be bothered to play any more) was great content and showed that the prophet was great and good and would say all. And any failings were with the one who had come before who had delivered 9 chapters and monthly chapters after that along with additional alert style content. But he clearly did all the harm and the prophet was good.

^ Post of the year.

[supertimtaf]

But I honestly also don't want to paint EA as the devil as many do as well. Many call them "suits" but you know, leading a business like that, making tough decisions, it's not easy at all. And EA can't just give them unlimited money like the amount Bioware Austin got for launch. They also have to think about the future and the business and it's survival.

 

Without EA swtor would never exist in the first place.

 

Actually, it would exist. BW has been bought by EA who wanted to bet on the studio's success to make some more money. I think BW would have survived without EA. Sure, the investment would have been more difficult to find, but still, it could be possible to do so.

 

And... Sadly, EA are known for their buying of franchise to squeeze a maximum of money out of it. They are well known for funds cuts who messed up a good part of some games, this, along with the DLC-mania, is what made them (in)famous in the current gaming world. Still, I recall that they weren't always like that... I don't say that they can throw huge amount of money into this game, but they clearly have the margin to do more, but they don't wanna cross this line. They've lost their touch with the playerbase, instead of trying to invest a little money into the game in order to bring it back, they prefer milking it with cartel market sales, sub and everything, because it is way safer to do this. Overall, they just don't want a game to backfire at them, so they don't take risk.

[DWho]

For me and for people I play with he at least delivered MMO content with the limited budget. The previous producer delivered nothing for me, lied, deceived about when if ever they would make new MMO content. An Op to me is greater value than all the worthless SP garbage 4.0 produced. If they deleted 4.0 I wouldn't be even be moved. I will forever remember 4.0 when they tried to force SP only and almost killed the game. Keith delivered everything I wanted returning Justice to the Galaxy. I pour one out for Keith.

 

 

I remember when I and others said KotFE would fail back in 2015 for forcing SP only into an MMO and told to we were wrong.. Now we aren't here having paid for that but back on track. Story is flavor content is substance. KOTFE nor monthly SP walking simulators wasn't content. This thread is just people wanting to go back toward what lead to this limited budget and declining subs.

 

The reason KOTFE failed was not that it was story content but rather that it was released in snipets so small that it only took an hour or two to complete and really had zero replayability since it was the same story no matter your class or affiliation (the vanilla story is still far superior to any of the expansions). Released all at once it would have been more like an expansion. KOTET was clearly rushed out and sub-standard quality. All they proved is that if you don't put in the effort, story content will not be engaging and non-engaging content can't keep players around. PVP and Operations expansions are cheap to produce and that is what makes me concerned about this game. Focusing on "cheap" to produce content is a sign of a game in trouble.

 

You are still wrong about story content in that this "MMO" was always about story. I guess we see thing oppositely in that after I have played an OP a couple of times I lose interest. There is no variability. There is really only one way to play an OP (once you learn the mechanic there is no longer anything interesting about it) unlike story which can have infinite variations (or at least quite a few). Good luck with the group content. My sub doesn't expire until Feb of next year so I'll be around to see this merger succeed or fail. As far as new story, I'll take your approach and be skeptical it will be delivered. The last two story expansions (KOTET and KOTFE) were both underwhelming because they were rushed. We'll see if the same thing happens again.

[Aowin]

You are still wrong about story content in that this "MMO" was always about story. I guess we see thing oppositely in that after I have played an OP a couple of times I lose interest. There is no variability. There is really only one way to play an OP (once you learn the mechanic there is no longer anything interesting about it) unlike story which can have infinite variations (or at least quite a few). Good luck with the group content. My sub doesn't expire until Feb of next year so I'll be around to see this merger succeed or fail. As far as new story, I'll take your approach and be skeptical it will be delivered. The last two story expansions (KOTET and KOTFE) were both underwhelming because they were rushed. We'll see if the same thing happens again.

 

Spot on. I've been following SWTOR since it was first revealed in October 2008. The game was always about story first. The main experience was the eight class stories. That was promoted far more than anything else. The fact that it also has other content (flashpoints, operations, warzones, dailies, etc.) was meant to supplement the main experience, which was story.

 

The promise of this MMO was to bring us BioWare storytelling that would evolve for years and years. That did not happen for several reasons. KOTFE and KOTET may have been underwhelming in terms of the story, but at least the game was returning to its roots. Now, no one is getting much of anything and communication is as sparse as ever.

 

I've played MMOs for the last 12 years. Raid content, especially as lackluster as it is in SWTOR, has no replay value. It's the same mechanics and the same boss fights. The only reason to do it is for gear progression, and then you never go back. It's bad content with little value. PvP is the only feature that legitimately has replay value, due to the dynamic nature of competitive multiplayer. Story can have decent replayability if choices and consequences are varied enough.

 

Regardless, the main selling point of this game was always BioWare storytelling. If BioWare completely abandons it going forward, then this game may as well be dead. KOTFE was a good foundation. BioWare should have continued perfecting that model instead of giving us the mess we have received this year.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Aowin

[FerkWork]

The reason KOTFE failed was not that it was story content but rather that it was released in snipets so small that it only took an hour or two to complete and really had zero replayability since it was the same story no matter your class or affiliation (the vanilla story is still far superior to any of the expansions). Released all at once it would have been more like an expansion. KOTET was clearly rushed out and sub-standard quality. All they proved is that if you don't put in the effort, story content will not be engaging and non-engaging content can't keep players around. PVP and Operations expansions are cheap to produce and that is what makes me concerned about this game. Focusing on "cheap" to produce content is a sign of a game in trouble.

 

You are still wrong about story content in that this "MMO" was always about story. I guess we see thing oppositely in that after I have played an OP a couple of times I lose interest. There is no variability. There is really only one way to play an OP (once you learn the mechanic there is no longer anything interesting about it) unlike story which can have infinite variations (or at least quite a few). Good luck with the group content. My sub doesn't expire until Feb of next year so I'll be around to see this merger succeed or fail. As far as new story, I'll take your approach and be skeptical it will be delivered. The last two story expansions (KOTET and KOTFE) were both underwhelming because they were rushed. We'll see if the same thing happens again.

 

Unfortunately you are the one wrong. Anger that they won't bow down to all story or nothing won't change the fact that story only destroyed this game. They would have failed regardless Story has zero repeatability same linear boring choice no action nothing. If you find an Op boring you need to change roles or you can play mass effect instead if MMOs aren't your thing. Story is much cheaper to make btw. We shall see a better game.

Edited October 11, 2017 by FerkWork

[FerkWork]

Spot on. I've been following SWTOR since it was first revealed in October 2008. The game was always about story first. The main experience was the eight class stories. That was promoted far more than anything else. The fact that it also has other content (flashpoints, operations, warzones, dailies, etc.) was meant to supplement the main experience, which was story.

 

The promise of this MMO was to bring us BioWare storytelling that would evolve for years and years. That did not happen for several reasons. KOTFE and KOTET may have been underwhelming in terms of the story, but at least the game was returning to its roots. Now, no one is getting much of anything and communication is as sparse as ever.

 

I've played MMOs for the last 12 years. Raid content, especially as lackluster as it is in SWTOR, has no replay value. It's the same mechanics and the same boss fights. The only reason to do it is for gear progression, and then you never go back. It's bad content with little value. PvP is the only feature that legitimately has replay value, due to the dynamic nature of competitive multiplayer. Story can have decent replayability if choices and consequences are varied enough.

 

Regardless, the main selling point of this game was always BioWare storytelling. If BioWare completely abandons it going forward, then this game may as well be dead. KOTFE was a good foundation. BioWare should have continued perfecting that model instead of giving us the mess we have received this year.

 

And I'm the Space Pope.

Edited October 11, 2017 by FerkWork

[DWho]

Unfortunately you are the one wrong. Anger that they won't bow down to all story or nothing won't change the fact that story only destroyed this game. They would have failed regardless Story has zero repeatability same linear boring choice no action nothing. If you find an Op boring you need to change roles or you can play mass effect instead if MMOs aren't your thing. Story is much cheaper to make btw. We shall see a better game.

 

I still disagree but we will see if the group content can hold onto the influx of story players from the new movie coming out. I doubt it but anything is possible. Story has a lot more re-playability than you think. You can take the same stance as you did with Operations (if you want to experience it differently try a different role/class). The stories all play out subtly different for the different roles/classes. There are 3 roles in OPS while there are a minimum of 8 different story options (at least in the vanilla part of the game). You won't get an argument from me that KOTFE and KOTET did not live up to the original stories. The game will only survive if both group and "solo" play are integrated as much as you may dislike the thought. "MMO" players are very fickle and could abandon the game in an instant. Up until now, that was not true of story players (KOTFE and KOTET aside which were disappointing to almost everyone).

 

If you find story boring maybe you could play a MOBA game instead of and MMO built around story. Glad to have you here but the knife cuts both ways. You have your time in the sun to prove your point. I hope you are right and this direction can save the game but as I said, i am skeptical.

[menofhorror]

Actually, it would exist. BW has been bought by EA who wanted to bet on the studio's success to make some more money. I think BW would have survived without EA. Sure, the investment would have been more difficult to find, but still, it could be possible to do so.

 

And... Sadly, EA are known for their buying of franchise to squeeze a maximum of money out of it. They are well known for funds cuts who messed up a good part of some games, this, along with the DLC-mania, is what made them (in)famous in the current gaming world. Still, I recall that they weren't always like that... I don't say that they can throw huge amount of money into this game, but they clearly have the margin to do more, but they don't wanna cross this line. They've lost their touch with the playerbase, instead of trying to invest a little money into the game in order to bring it back, they prefer milking it with cartel market sales, sub and everything, because it is way safer to do this. Overall, they just don't want a game to backfire at them, so they don't take risk.

 

BW themselves, rather the doctors were ok with that decision. Pretty sure Bioware wanted to reach higher as well. And of course they will milk the game. They spent a fortune on it only for it to quickly mob months after launch. Naturally they won't do the same mistake.

[Deewe]

Actually, it would exist. BW has been bought by EA who wanted to bet on the studio's success to make some more money. I think BW would have survived without EA. Sure, the investment would have been more difficult to find, but still, it could be possible to do so.

 

And... Sadly, EA are known for their buying of franchise to squeeze a maximum of money out of it. They are well known for funds cuts who messed up a good part of some games, this, along with the DLC-mania, is what made them (in)famous in the current gaming world. Still, I recall that they weren't always like that... I don't say that they can throw huge amount of money into this game, but they clearly have the margin to do more, but they don't wanna cross this line. They've lost their touch with the playerbase, instead of trying to invest a little money into the game in order to bring it back, they prefer milking it with cartel market sales, sub and everything, because it is way safer to do this. Overall, they just don't want a game to backfire at them, so they don't take risk.

Couple of things to highlight:

 

BioWare was sold to EA for a premium based on the future success of specifically SWTOR.

Soon enough EA realized the game was far from being ready and not only invested a **** load of money into the game but accepted to delay it by roundly one year.

One + year later EA realized again the game was not ready to go live but they had to push it out of the door.

In the meantime BioWare did a really bad job at managing the game development. They even admitted it was too big for them to manage and messed up. Long story short story it ended with the Death Star meetings in which developers would drop into tears...

Soon after launch BioWare realized the players burnt the content in a bit more than a month whereas they thought it would take 6 months to a year for most.

There was no end content, the game was truly lacking core content and features (like a group finder).

Top that with the fact the devs did not listen to the players and kept thinking they knew better than them what their truly needed.

 

So while we can agree EA pushed the game out of the door, without them BioWare would have sunk as lacking the cash flow to finish the game.

 

Now let's say you are an EA exec and not only see how abysmal are the subs reports but also the bad press the game is getting topped with management that certainly don't make you feel comfortable the game could become better at all: would you invest the 20+ millions required to bring this space turd to a better level?

Or would you keep milking players on reskinned assets and invest the money in new titles?

Edited October 12, 2017 by Deewe

[supertimtaf]

Now let's say you are an EA exec and not only see how abysmal are the subs reports but also the bad press the game is getting topped with management that certainly don't make you feel comfortable the game could become better at all: would you invest the 20+ millions required to bring this space turd to a better level?

Or would you keep milking players on reskinned assets and invest the money in new titles?

 

I'm clearly not saying they are wrong to do it. Being myself in the entertainment industry (more on the artistic side rather than the investment/production) I perfectly know why they don't invest more into this game. We're falling back onto what I said earlier, about this game being badly made by peoples who where not competent enough in the first place, making producers reticent.

 

Somewhere along the road, there was a mistake, where BW refused to engage more qualified peoples that have already worked on a MMO, they refused to see this game as players, instead resting on their former glory.

 

"Look, we've made games that where a total win in the past, don't worry we'll do it again we don't need your advice". Sadly, it seems that some of the peoples working at that time are still working on this game with the same mentality (I'm thinking about class balance on this case). I've once worked with a musician who released in the past a successfull album. I'll never work with him again, because he's way to full of himself due to its former glory. "You don't understand, i know how this work, I've already made it". There is no place for improvement when peoples don't want to actually improve and learn.

 

 

I still disagree but we will see if the group content can hold onto the influx of story players from the new movie coming out. I doubt it but anything is possible. Story has a lot more re-playability than you think. You can take the same stance as you did with Operations (if you want to experience it differently try a different role/class). The stories all play out subtly different for the different roles/classes. There are 3 roles in OPS while there are a minimum of 8 different story options (at least in the vanilla part of the game). You won't get an argument from me that KOTFE and KOTET did not live up to the original stories. The game will only survive if both group and "solo" play are integrated as much as you may dislike the thought. "MMO" players are very fickle and could abandon the game in an instant. Up until now, that was not true of story players (KOTFE and KOTET aside which were disappointing to almost everyone).

 

The problem with KOTFE and KOTET is that, unlike any other story released for the game until now, they have :

 

Absolutely NO replayability.

Absolutely NO real incentive to play it (except if you really want to do Star Fortress or Eternal Championship).

 

I'll just give my own opinion about these, about how I feel about them.

 

I am, since my start on this game, a big fan of the assassin gameplay. Stealth, powerfull attack, quick movement for a rapid progression while still being fragile... I liked a lot every class story (I hated Makeb though, waaaaaay to big and boring for me xD ), because you had this impression of progression with your character. You were building your crew, you had your own ship, increasing your power or your skill, you were travelling across entire planets with other peoples, grouping up for some difficult quest (RIP Heroic 4+) or enjoying the story at your own pace (Stealth is soooo great to skip thousands of unecessary trash).

 

You launch Kotfe after SoR, where your character has been granted the title of "Dark Council Elite" and survived to Ziost. You where special in a sense, because you took the time to build your own character, make your own choice. You earned everything you had, because you took the time to play the whole story. You have your own "identity".

 

At the start of KOTFE, you lose EVERYTHING.

 

Your ship, your companions, your whole history, gone. Everything vanished. Now, you're just the "Outlander", like every other player. You're stuck on a personal instance, not even planets, to work toward your solo progression, with no real break, absolutely no side quest, bugged cinematic that causes weaker pc to crash, automatic trashmob pack that aggro even when you are in stealth (biggest issue for me, who like to rush things and avoid trash as much as possible). In the end, you complete this expansion, what have you earned ? Nothing. Just Odessen, a planet that is as big as your previous ship with a character that has lost everything that made it "unique" when compared to others.

 

Honestly, this is what bother me with those two expansion. You don't actually gain anything from doing it, you just lose everything that you worked for until now.

 

They are just not worth your time, in terms of actual reward or character progression. Every other player has done the same, has lived through the exact same story, in the exact same way as you. No choice with consequence, the result is always the same in the end. They tried to fill the void with a crap load of romance option, like they did in ME : Andromeda (romance option that we didn't even asked for) along with poorly handled "side objective" like star fortress or even working toward max influence with every alliance leader (by farming again older content).

 

This is why I don't call those expansion "good", because they're just bad when you look at what the rest of the game had (and still has) to offer. I could do Oricon and have more content unlocked by doing so rather than playing the nine first chapters of those expansion.

 

 

 

Anyway, for me, those two expansion where not designed for this game. They where designed to make a new game, with the basis of the previous one. Sadly, peoples wanted and still want to play "swtor", not another game that use the same characters and assets.

 

We'll see if group content can be managed correctly in order to keep peoples busy while they are working on some real, interesting swtor-story like the one we love

Group content like Operation isn't the strong point of this game, clearly not due to how bad it is coded.

It isn't what will keep this game running forever.

Still, it keeps peoples playing for something and for some time while the devs focus on the next multiples class-based storyline. Peoples here are asking for two things : Either new group content to keep them busy, or new classic story content like the one we had at lvl 1 to 50... Guess which one can be done properly and quicly ?

[DWho]

Anyway, for me, those two expansion where not designed for this game. They where designed to make a new game, with the basis of the previous one. Sadly, peoples wanted and still want to play "swtor", not another game that use the same characters and assets.

 

I'd have to agree this is a major factor in why those expansions failed. They were not Star Wars Old Republic. It was more like Mass Effect meets Star Wars. I personally think the release schedule of KotFE was a problem too in that it created a very disjointed story. I played it both chapter by chapter and all chapters one after another when it was complete. It was much better played as a complete story arc. KotET feels unfinished and truncated and that is my biggest issue with it. When you put out bad story, even story players are not going to like it. Quality story is engaging and draws in players. It is what this game was all about. The group content was meant to keep them around until the next story arc came out. Hopefully if the next chunk of story comes out it will be more Star Wars Old Republic than the last couple. That release will make or break this game so a lot is riding on it. I only hope the game can survive that long. Maybe they can release the vanilla story as a stand alone game with the character development of 2.0 returned (skill trees).

[Aowin]

I'd have to agree this is a major factor in why those expansions failed. They were not Star Wars Old Republic. It was more like Mass Effect meets Star Wars. I personally think the release schedule of KotFE was a problem too in that it created a very disjointed story. I played it both chapter by chapter and all chapters one after another when it was complete. It was much better played as a complete story arc. KotET feels unfinished and truncated and that is my biggest issue with it. When you put out bad story, even story players are not going to like it. Quality story is engaging and draws in players. It is what this game was all about. The group content was meant to keep them around until the next story arc came out. Hopefully if the next chunk of story comes out it will be more Star Wars Old Republic than the last couple. That release will make or break this game so a lot is riding on it. I only hope the game can survive that long. Maybe they can release the vanilla story as a stand alone game with the character development of 2.0 returned (skill trees).

 

The story in KOTFE and KOTET were far better than the story we received in ROTHC and SOW. KOTFE and KOTET were supposed to serve as soft reboots for SWTOR, which is why you felt they really weren’t a continuation of the previous story. I personally want BioWare to continue on that path, but obviously more choices and more player agency would be great going forward.

 

I’d also like to see the subscriber reward program return. I preferred that as an incentive instead of having to be subscribed to level in GC; which is not fun or rewarding at all.

Edited October 12, 2017 by Aowin

[Costello]

I agree story is vital to tor. Its what tor offers that can't be found elsewhere, people often say on other forums if this wasn't star wars it would be dead. Yet the only way you know its star wars is through the story, plenty of games offer magic knights and bounty hunters, you could even be mistaken for thinking one sandy area could be tatooine. Without the star wars story or mythology then it just isn't star wars.

 

Even Kotfe wasn't that bad as premises go, rerun the opening to episode 1, it talks of twin invaders attacking the republic and empire, you then see an old man being counselled by his son and a fleet leaving orbit. The player then docks their ship with an Imperial Destroyer and has a few words with their companion.

 

Where it went down hill was when you find out the old man is a planet eating force god and built all this in his spare time because he had given up with the sith and would take up residence in your head, one planet and a fleet of ships could bring the entire galaxy to its knees and you would lose everything. Instead of your beloved companions, you would get the incompetent Lana Banana, the traitorous Koth, the destroyed HK unit, the traitorous Senya, the traitorous SCORPIO and the Traitorous Theron.

 

The writing and pacing would also take a down turn. Had it been done well those monthly updates would have been amazing but instead they seemed short, identical and often concluded with you having failed at whatever you had been tasked to do by Lana and Theron. They also lacked any depth, ESO launched a prelude mission before updates, now this prelude is free to all and about an hour long. But because you know its only an hour you can take your time to explore, sure if you wish you can rush through and get back to whatever you want to do. But they offer enough depth that if you want to stop and read the books on the way, I know books in the game you can click on to read amazing, or just explore and take in swimming (I know swimming) out to a ship on the reef. Had the monthly chapters offered such and different dialogues for different classes and choices that 40 mins of content offers so much more than 40 mins of killing static mobs on a static planet for not much of any story ready to wait for the next one.

 

Its hard to see why choices that have been made in the development were made, but I doubt this new direction of Keiths will prove to be nearly as popular as Kotfe. It seems the days of end content being group content are over as people no longer have the time or the desire to sit around for hours to get a group and then able to simply devote hours to seeing through the content. People have lives and the wonder of an MMO is being able to jump in and explore a rich amazing world whenever you want, for as long as you want and how you want. All the while having the possibility to meet other people but not being forced to group with them or lose the credit.

[AlrikFassbauer]

I'd have to agree this is a major factor in why those expansions failed. They were not Star Wars Old Republic. It was more like Mass Effect meets Star Wars.

 

They don't feel like Star Wars to me as well.

[YlliyaXor]

The story in KOTFE and KOTET were far better than the story we received in ROTHC and SOW. KOTFE and KOTET were supposed to serve as soft reboots for SWTOR, which is why you felt they really weren’t a continuation of the previous story. I personally want BioWare to continue on that path, but obviously more choices and more player agency would be great going forward.

 

I’d also like to see the subscriber reward program return. I preferred that as an incentive instead of having to be subscribed to level in GC; which is not fun or rewarding at all.

 

Less walkers, less trashmobs that ignore stealth and aggro wherever you are, more planets with daylight, less Boss fights that don't require actual gaming, less forced companions, less content locked behind other content players might not feel like doing, less telegraphed treasons that can't be avoided, less Theron, less Lana, less corridors with mobs.

 

BW seems to go out of their way to make rewards crappy, i think the only one i use is the jetpack, the lawnmower and the HK mask were particularly bad, plus after that cute stunt they pulled with the "HK" chapter, if there are more timed rewards i'll unsub immediately so i can guarantee i'm not eligible for their bait and switchy rewards.

 

BW has a special talent for making rewards feel like punishment or even insults.