Does Bioware Dislike Women?

[IoNonSoEVero]

Agreed at least now, they already did the surprise betrayal in the form of Quin -.- ( yay us women ) ok the guys never had it but still, its old and used and really taking a romance option and forcing half your player base to be angry while the other half really doesn't care...its sort of a catch 22...the guys would be incensed if you messed with lana but are ok with Theran but visa versa for us women and the same with the LGBTQ community split in the middle. We may not like one or the other being a traitor but are more ok with the one our toons are NOT involved with as opposed to the one they ARE. Making Satele ( influenced by say Marr ) would have made A Lot more sense or a different sith..Idk..Malgus or even OMG Jadus thanks to Satele being opened up to those influences something but Definitely not Theron or Lana!!!!! Damn it. Enough of Romance Companions ( Especially OURS turning on us )

 

Well, even though I'm not romancing Theron - I'm sad about it. I like him, and I think my character really did consider him to be a close friend and trusted him implicitly. From a gameplay perspective he was one of the characters I'd worked to raise to level 50 influence so he'd be effective in the chapters where he was my companion, and I used him a lot for crafting. From that perspective, I'm personally very disappointed with what they've done with him.

 

You're right, I'm not sad the way I would be if they messed with my Lana, because she's my love interest - I actually hold back my main and deliberately read spoilers before I do the new content, because I've decided that she will NOT go through any expansion that does something evil to Lana and I will NOT lose that companion. I did that with Iokath and Umbara, and I plan to do the same with the Chiss flashpoint.

 

But I DO feel very bad for women and men who have lost Theron (temporarily! I'll think positive here!) in this storyline, and I don't think it's right. I saw how much pain was on this board after the traitor was known, and I wanted to give all of you hugs.

 

The player has been betrayed SO MANY TIMES by now. From vanilla story to Umbara I think I can count more than ten betrayals. And I have to think it's a special kick in the teeth for female Sith Warriors who broke up with Quinn for Theron, and then had Theron betray them in the very next chapter. It's so old and tired and I wish they'd do something else instead of messing with love interests this way.

[Euphrates_Dul]

What about body type 4 companions!!

[Eloi_BG]

Y'all screaming about Theron when I'm pretty sure he's playing double agent (again). Well if you're LS that is. I'm pretty sure they will have two different endings with him depending if you're LS or DS.

 

If you love Theron, then you need to understand this is what he does. Wait for 5.6 and the rest of the story before saying the Devs hate women's LI. You can say treason is not original, it's legit complaint. But knowing Theron is a spy, has always been a spy and will always be a spy, there is a good chance he is doing this to protect you, learn about this organization and then come back to you. Having a big downtime between the story allows it to make it more impactful that him disappearing for a cutscene.

 

Tbh it's the only traitor that would make sense, it's not like Lana at all to do this, and any other wouldn't have enough access to us to make it work.

Edited October 6, 2017 by Eloi_BG

[Suzsi]

In terms of content, slow burn, build up and over all romance Cullen's is probably the best across all of the bioware games in how it was done. It was really an amazing romance -- I am not talking about Cullen's past which many have issues with but simply how his romance scenes where done and handled in the game and the outcome at the end.. Jaal's comes a close second.

 

He was kind, considerate, protective, caring and didn't die and for the most part that's what girls wantt out of an in game romance. They went from very very basic flirts in the beginning to slowly building up to more serious flirts over time and eventually romance / relationship.

 

He didn't betray, cheat or lie. Unlike many other romances we've had to deal with.

 

As far as actual romance content is concerned -- they need to look at Cullen's romance and use it as a base. There's a reason why it's so popular.

 

It would also help them to remember in a game like this one where the story is on going -- just because a couple is in a romance doesn't mean they have suddenly forgotten / stopped ever flirting with each other. They could do with a little more then simply a be careful kiss moments before a huge fight.

 

Something else I like in romances is a kinda bad boy who over time can turn good as he falls for the good girl. So long as everything's upfront from the start. Not stuff like Blackwall where he slept with the inquisitor and THEN she found out his huge secret -- thats so not on, he never should have slept with her until after.

Edited October 6, 2017 by Suzsi

[fire-breath]

Agent = Kaliyo, Temple Warrior = Vette, Jessa ( light OR Dark) BH = Mako , Inquisitor = Ashara, Trooper = Dorne, Knight = Kira

Consular = Nadia Finally Smuggler your choice of Risha or Akavi.

Agent = havent played this class enough to get a feeling for how the companions are

Warrior = Two girls with a serious case of needing a shrink. One of them even brainwashed

BH = again a simplistic minded person

Inquisitor = havent played this class enough to get a feeling for how the companions are

Trooper = annoying brat who only want to follow rules and can site them probably by hart. I don't see ANY reason why this sounds appealing in a relation ship. Unless you are the type who fancies that sort of stuff

Knight = really? Who know what left inside her mind. I wouldn't trust brainwashed people like that

Consular = serious case of over achievness. Nah ....

Smuggler = Okey, having the possibility to become king sounds nice but erhm. Thats kinda a romance for the money. Not sure if thats your idea of love but hey .... whatever makes you tick right? Akavi. Way to aggressive. Wouldnt want to expose my children to someone like her ever ......

 

 

 

Ohw ..... and just an FYI. Have you ever heard of the world 'lgbtqiap'? This post seems awefully narrowminded to me. (besides the point that a company by definition CAN'T like nor dislike anyone as a company isn't a living breathing organism. But I get what you were meaning to say.)

[Iceslasher]

Agent = havent played this class enough to get a feeling for how the companions are

Warrior = Two girls with a serious case of needing a shrink. One of them even brainwashed

BH = again a simplistic minded person

Inquisitor = havent played this class enough to get a feeling for how the companions are

Trooper = annoying brat who only want to follow rules and can site them probably by hart. I don't see ANY reason why this sounds appealing in a relation ship. Unless you are the type who fancies that sort of stuff

Knight = really? Who know what left inside her mind. I wouldn't trust brainwashed people like that

Consular = serious case of over achievness. Nah ....

Smuggler = Okey, having the possibility to become king sounds nice but erhm. Thats kinda a romance for the money. Not sure if thats your idea of love but hey .... whatever makes you tick right? Akavi. Way to aggressive. Wouldnt want to expose my children to someone like her ever ......

 

Ohw ..... and just an FYI. Have you ever heard of the world 'lgbtqiap'? This post seems awfully narrow minded to me. (besides the point that a company by definition CAN'T like nor dislike anyone as a company isn't a living breathing organism. But I get what you were meaning to say.)

 

You missed the point entirely..Guys have had major choices throughout the game...women have always had the short end of the stick and the poor LGBTQ community NEVER had any choices until this expansion..and when we Finally have a good romance ( for us women we had Torian which a lot of women will agree was pretty good but that was about it) And then they did the same garbage they always do..oh..lets make the woman's romance betray everyone..and now the male half of the LGBTQ community is going to have to start dealing with it because now they are being lumped right in the same " you don't exist / matter" pile as we are.

[Lunafox]

Given what they did to Theron's hair...yeah, I'd say they do.

[Johrun]

Bioware doesn't hate women.

 

Romance, as it should be, usually comes as secondary to character development.

Their primary role is as our companions along with their role in SW universe; their secondary role is as our LIs. Romance is just an option for/aspect of an already formed character. Luck would have it that male options are somewhat better (read: more normal) than female.

 

Companions treat MC the same regardless of your romance, regarding SW events. Malavai tries to kill you anyway. Theron dumps you for a sect-leader-looking dude. Vecor is an ant-man with hivemind (and your only option admittedly), etc. If you get romantically involved, it has more impact on MC, but they're the same people.

 

Though, I wish Lord Scourge was a romance option for jedi knight - would make for such a super interesting sith-jedi dynamics! He brazenly spoke of JK having offspring strong in the force, but never offered to make any. Not an omission storywise likely, as Scrouge mentioned ritual made him incapable of feeling anything (paraphrasing).

Edited October 7, 2017 by Johrun

[Iceslasher]

Y'all screaming about Theron when I'm pretty sure he's playing double agent (again). Well if you're LS that is. I'm pretty sure they will have two different endings with him depending if you're LS or DS.

 

If you love Theron, then you need to understand this is what he does. Wait for 5.6 and the rest of the story before saying the Devs hate women's LI. You can say treason is not original, it's legit complaint. But knowing Theron is a spy, has always been a spy and will always be a spy, there is a good chance he is doing this to protect you, learn about this organization and then come back to you. Having a big downtime between the story allows it to make it more impactful that him disappearing for a cutscene.

 

Tbh it's the only traitor that would make sense, it's not like Lana at all to do this, and any other wouldn't have enough access to us to make it work.

 

This what i am REALLY REALLY hoping but how many times has bioware disappointed... srsly..each time its...forgive and move on and really...as a Cipher Agent and in some cases ( Chiss Agent if the story is done right) a triple agent...Red Flame, SIS Agent and Imp Agent all rolled into one...you think her reactions wouldn't be really good at faking it?...

[Iceslasher]

Bioware doesn't hate women.

 

Romance, as it should be, usually comes as secondary to character development.

Their primary role is as our companions along with their role in SW universe; their secondary role is as our LIs. Romance is just an option for/aspect of an already formed character. Luck would have it that male options are somewhat better (read: more normal) than female.

 

Companions treat MC the same regardless of your romance, regarding SW events. Malavai tries to kill you anyway. Theron dumps you for a sect-leader-looking dude. Vecor is an ant-man with hivemind (and your only option admittedly), etc. If you get romantically involved, it has more impact on MC, but they're the same people.

 

 

Sure, not "hate" but it feels like they Dislikes us...or at least hasn't a clue what women are or that we are a different species..is it to much to as for a Li that actually has intelligence and can actually be a partner , personally that is why i like the Torian romance..same with the Theron one.. until they messed it up...i like Lana as a friend same reason...partners smart, supportive a partner..not real hard to do in a companion. Besides it the LI may not be the most important part of a story ( they are awesome regardless) but it makes it that much better or could if they were decent .

[Stncold]

Almost none of the people who wrote those characters all those years ago even work for Bioware anymore.

[Iceslasher]

Almost none of the people who wrote those characters all those years ago even work for Bioware anymore.

Problem is, Theron and Lana is part of the new content..same thing still applies, women and now male half of lgbtq are getting the short end of the stick plus someone mentioned our poor female warriors...i can also think of my poor chiss agent..how many times she has been betrayed..not just by her own pple , but intelligence, watcher x and then of course the sis using what intelligence put in place...thanks but that is Really old...what next the whole alliance is going to kick her out on her ear because she is not "good enough" oh and the pub trooper , thanks saresh uggg

[Oreget]

Male inquisitor doesn't have much better options.

Ashara-whiny jedi girl.Try to romance her with dark side inquisitor.

Only then you will know the meaning of pain.

[HanSollo]

Do you get the feeling Bioware doesn't like women? O.O or maybe never even met a woman in their lives?

I am talking about romances. Don't get me wrong the original story lines were Epic loved them. But the romances for the most part were pretty terrible for women to say the least.

Lets look at it objectively, we have

Agent = man part bug, Crawling with bugs, Warrior = Traitor Bounty hunter = Honourable Hunter ( best and only good one ) Inquisitor = insane ( brought on by torture and sith relic) psychotic pirate

Knight = Male Whore ( thank god he can cure his own V.D.'s) Consular = Holocron head ( its in his BRAIN and SITH)

Trooper = Cat ( can you say *******ITY) and finally my fav Smuggler -.- = Door nob who rides cows drunk and that is what he calls fun. Personally I don't mind the inquisitor and love the BH ones.

Male romances...i will just count them out for you Agent = Kaliyo, Temple Warrior = Vette, Jessa ( light OR Dark) BH = Mako , Inquisitor = Ashara, Trooper = Dorne, Knight = Kira

Consular = Nadia Finally Smuggler your choice of Risha or Akavi.

 

Just for interest sake Men romance-able choices = 11 ( most good other then Kaliyo but hey make up for it with Temple

Women romance-able choice = 1 great..2 ok maybe depending the rest ewwww but the grand total is 7 ( traitor Hell NO

The reason i wonder if Bioware may dislike their female player base or not want us paying sub fees or even in the game is they Finally bring out a good romance toon and we do EVERYTHING right to keep him ALL light side options on our toons choose the republic make sure we choose things he would like, everything and the story tellers still decide to take the male romance companion and make him the traitor ...really NOT LIKE THE GUYS DON`T ALREADY have a CRAP TON already .. WE WILL SCREW OVER THE WOMEN BASE EVEN MORE! THANKS !!!

 

No... Thas a pretty stupid question to ask as well.

[Oreget]

Hey girls I've got a simple solution for you:play the expansions!!

You can choose your companions even from the rep side!!

Problem solved!!

Also during main story playthrough I had an idea of exchanging companions.

For example:female sith warrior can send Price to the inquisitor party.She doesn't need him.

[JennyFlynn]

I'm of two minds on the subject. I mostly feel they don't necessarily 'hate' women but they are utterly and completely off-base in their perception of what women want. And there are certain things which can be explained in two ways.

 

Lana for instance; There is the notion that Lana is there in all her glorious precious self, at each turn, to cater to the male players. But one could also argue BW is putting a, in their eyes 'strong female' on the foreground, as a nod to female empowerment.

 

Same with the recent retro'ish Chiss poster they had; it displays a woman. One can say this is done to give the male players eye candy but you can also argue they're advertising a female 'heroine' because empowerment. Like having a Wonder Woman poster basically.

 

It's all perception and unfortunately, we'll never be certain of Bioware's actual intent.

 

Now as far as romances go though... yikes, huge imbalance. Male players get almost double the flirts, one nighters and relationship opportunities. And that imbalance becomes even more staggering once you take the LGBTQ community into consideration.

 

I don't know who wrote some of these romances but they are appalling in certain cases. I see Corso as this romance novella cliche (you know those little paperbacks you buy that has some prissy lady and a dude with a deep tan and oiled chest on the cover) who just makes my trigger finger twitch like mad. Iresso.... seriously unless someone brings him up, I tend to forget he even exists. And who the hell thought it was a good idea to write the Tharan Cedrax flirt? Andronikos is alright but I see him more as a buddy with benefits than a true romance. Doc was somewhat entertaining but there is a high creep factor to him as well. Torian is a sweetheart, no doubt, but he makes me feel like a cradle robber and though the Mando'a is nice, there's just something yawn-worthy about the romance.

 

They also missed the boat on more interesting romances and flirts imho. Lord Scourge (I know not everyone agrees) but his story has the foundations for one of the most epic romances. I love Quinn and I'd not let him go but a good alternative/second option would have been Darth Vowrawn given how 'involved' he is in the SW's 3rd Act. They created a good foundation for the Fem Trooper and Jonas Balkar, why not carry that into a full romance option? My Agent... she would have had a tough time choosing between Vector and Saganu, and it would have been wonderful. And those are just a few examples of how Bioware in my eyes missed the mark and connections they could and should have expanded on.

 

That's just my two cents right now in between chores but yeah... on the romance front especially there is a clear bias and imbalance and I (probably in vain) hope it'll improve going forward.

[fushnchips]

Do you get the feeling Bioware doesn't like women? O.O or maybe never even met a woman in their lives?

 

You do know they have a ton of women working for them right ? this thread must be one of the worst posts of 2017

[Eshvara]

You do know they have a ton of women working for them right ? this thread must be one of the worst posts of 2017

 

At least it isn't as bad as pineapple on pizza!

[AlrikFassbauer]

Do you get the feeling Bioware doesn't like women? O.O or maybe never even met a woman in their lives?

I am talking about romances. Don't get me wrong the original story lines were Epic loved them. But the romances for the most part were pretty terrible for women to say the least.

 

That can be too easily explained : The gaming industry is focused on and formed by mainly male developers. Not many women there, and if, then they get bullied like Jennifer Hepler.

 

PC games are still mostly aimed at men. And in the case of SWTOR, at very young men at that, which can be deduced by the estimated VERY young age of the player characters. (Which can often be deduced via the age and look of their female romance partners).

 

From this point of view, current PC games are more like a "hero's journey", and modelled like "coming into power" ( Dragon Age II advertising ) aka making the male player character into the most powerful person in that setting. ALL RPGs are like that : The protagonist is becoming more and more powerful - which is apparingly the ultimate wish of EVERY man, especially younger men. Just look at all the other games out there. The "coming into power" / "growing into power" theme is always there. And it is an almost exclusively male theme.

 

So, from this point of view, ALL class stories were modelled to fit into a male player's dreams. Not into female players' dreams.

 

And therefore female players were not taken seriously. Which can be seen via their romance options. The male-dominated dev team never gave a serious thought on how to develop believable female romances, I fear.

[cool-dude]

Yep. They hate women.

[sirjohnpat]

Do you get the feeling Bioware doesn't like women? O.O or maybe never even met a woman in their lives?

I am talking about romances. Don't get me wrong the original story lines were Epic loved them. But the romances for the most part were pretty terrible for women to say the least.

Lets look at it objectively, we have

Agent = man part bug, Crawling with bugs, Warrior = Traitor Bounty hunter = Honourable Hunter ( best and only good one ) Inquisitor = insane ( brought on by torture and sith relic) psychotic pirate

Knight = Male Whore ( thank god he can cure his own V.D.'s) Consular = Holocron head ( its in his BRAIN and SITH)

Trooper = Cat ( can you say *******ITY) and finally my fav Smuggler -.- = Door nob who rides cows drunk and that is what he calls fun. Personally I don't mind the inquisitor and love the BH ones.

Male romances...i will just count them out for you Agent = Kaliyo, Temple Warrior = Vette, Jessa ( light OR Dark) BH = Mako , Inquisitor = Ashara, Trooper = Dorne, Knight = Kira

Consular = Nadia Finally Smuggler your choice of Risha or Akavi.

 

Just for interest sake Men romance-able choices = 11 ( most good other then Kaliyo but hey make up for it with Temple

Women romance-able choice = 1 great..2 ok maybe depending the rest ewwww but the grand total is 7 ( traitor Hell NO

The reason i wonder if Bioware may dislike their female player base or not want us paying sub fees or even in the game is they Finally bring out a good romance toon and we do EVERYTHING right to keep him ALL light side options on our toons choose the republic make sure we choose things he would like, everything and the story tellers still decide to take the male romance companion and make him the traitor ...really NOT LIKE THE GUYS DON`T ALREADY have a CRAP TON already .. WE WILL SCREW OVER THE WOMEN BASE EVEN MORE! THANKS !!!

 

I would have to say the Romances in the game some what suck, I have played both male and female and find Romance a bit off. The harder you try it still seems the romance part is flakey they really need to revamp romance options for both sides and make it more level. For those who are LGBTQ they should be able to have their romances too. It's been a strange ride so far maybe bioware will wake up some day.

[Iceslasher]

That can be too easily explained : The gaming industry is focused on and formed by mainly male developers. Not many women there, and if, then they get bullied like Jennifer Hepler.

 

PC games are still mostly aimed at men. And in the case of SWTOR, at very young men at that, which can be deduced by the estimated VERY young age of the player characters. (Which can often be deduced via the age and look of their female romance partners).

 

From this point of view, current PC games are more like a "hero's journey", and modelled like "coming into power" ( Dragon Age II advertising ) aka making the male player character into the most powerful person in that setting. ALL RPGs are like that : The protagonist is becoming more and more powerful - which is apparingly the ultimate wish of EVERY man, especially younger men. Just look at all the other games out there. The "coming into power" / "growing into power" theme is always there. And it is an almost exclusively male theme.

 

So, from this point of view, ALL class stories were modelled to fit into a male player's dreams. Not into female players' dreams.

 

And therefore female players were not taken seriously. Which can be seen via their romance options. The male-dominated dev team never gave a serious thought on how to develop believable female romances, I fear.

 

Thanks for this, it puts the question into a much better focus...even though the player base has changed by leaps and bounds ( Alot more women and lgbtq players actually admitting what we are without care for fear of ridicule we used to get.) The actual creators / devs aren't keeping up. So thankyou again for the well thought out opinion . Two thumbs up.

[slydfox]

Given what they did to Theron's hair...yeah, I'd say they do.

 

I said the same thing, he definitely has to be mind controlled to do that to himself xD:

[Iceslasher]

I said the same thing, he definitely has to be mind controlled to do that to himself xD:

 

About Theron's hair...did you watch the cut for the new flash point...you should see what they did to his hair NOW! I am truely feeling the hate Arrrrrg talk about a mohawk gone wrong eeeeek!!!!

[AriaHimmelberg]

Do they hate women? I doubt it. I do not believe. They intentionally wanted to make those love interests make us want to cringe. However, I can believe they lacked enough female input while putting the romance storylines together though. Many of the romance options and storylines are poorly chosen. Would we like more and better choices in the future? definitely.