How does our feedback work

[menofhorror]

Yeah, completely agree with this! Now people also always compare current content with vanilla as they expect it to be just as big or want it to be!

Current content doesn't have to be as big as vanilla but the quality can always be better or at least on par when it comes to story and choices.

 

True but it's only natural. People will always compare the current story's quality and class diversity to the vanilla. It's only normal and it's the unfortunate hole the current writers are dropped. In my opinion they shouldn't try. They won't and will never be able to match the vanilla quality.

 

HOWEVER: They don't have to. Stop trying to make an epic plot because people will compare it to the vanilla. Instead have filler stories or simply story lines where we focus on our current companions (perhaps like loyalty quests in Mass Effect) I don't need a grand epic stories. Instead use the little budget you have to flesh out current companions that aren't THeron and Lana. Give us a story update where we can can have more dialogue/romance options with Quinn and Elara, Koth etc.

 

More followup character-driven stories instead of new grand plots.

 

Agreed. I also think that people are starting to get a bit bitter too. All this talk of companion returns, yet none of the returned compaions take part in cutscenes. I can have Gault as my companion, but when a cutscene is triggered it's Lana in the scene. That's what's getting some people riled up over companions. As long as it's Lana and Theron in the cutscenes and not our companion of choice, companion return stories are pointless. I mean, sure, we all have Lana and Theron as available companions, but who actually uses them?

 

Yea that's a problem too. This also comes to the problem they created with launch. Too many companion characters for too many classes and often their story arcs ended abrutply. It did seem they intended to continue those but I think they were unrealistic (of course in hindsight it's always easy to say that. I would probably be unrealistic too). The larger the development and development team, the more problems can arise due to organization or not clear thinking of the entire project. It can happen to the best.

 

But yea right now this is a problem.

Edited June 26, 2017 by menofhorror

[Estelindis]

I mean, sure, we all have Lana and Theron as available companions, but who actually uses them?

I use Theron. He was my main's active companion on the very first Star Fortress, but he disappeared because he's supposed to stay on the shuttle. So I just assumed that Star Fortresses were supposed to be completed without companions... They got a lot easier once I realised the truth!

[Xo-Lara]

I use Theron. He was my main's active companion on the very first Star Fortress, but he disappeared because he's supposed to stay on the shuttle. So I just assumed that Star Fortresses were supposed to be completed without companions... They got a lot easier once I realised the truth!

 

You know, I've never used Theron on my star fortress runs but I've been wondering about that. Now I know.

[Icykill_]

I use Theron. He was my main's active companion on the very first Star Fortress, but he disappeared because he's supposed to stay on the shuttle. So I just assumed that Star Fortresses were supposed to be completed without companions... They got a lot easier once I realised the truth!

 

Yeah, but I'm guessing they might be a bit too easy for you now. Especially if you were able to do them without a companion

[docbenwayddo]

Another part of the story that died with 5.0:

No longer will an "inscrutable reputation" (neutral) ruthless pragmatist result in Darth Occlus;

 

It will now result from ruthless micromanagement of a UI toggle.

Edited June 26, 2017 by docbenwayddo

[JakRoanin]

I just hope that with the new story direction entails a lot more callbacks to each Outlander's previous class story, so your Class matters! That, and we need MORE DECORATIONS!

[casirabit]

Stronghold information?

 

This is the last week of June and July is just around the corner and since the new stronghold is supposed to be released in July?

[dinowoman]

I mean, sure, we all have Lana and Theron as available companions, but who actually uses them?

I use Theron. He's the love interest of one of my characters. (I would also have used Lana too, but the game forced my womanising sniper to choose between her and Kaliyo after Kaliyo returned, so I had him go back to Kaliyo.)

 

But that's not why I wanted to post. Many people have been complaining bitterly about KOTFE and KOTET. I happen to love that storyline, though I think the implementation left a lot to be desired (far too linear for a start, and KOTET might as well have been a single player RPG, since the whole thing took place in personal instances, with no open-world side quests at all), but I always felt the story only really made sense if you were playing a relatively lightside character who was happy to work with the opposing side. There's no logical reason for anyone to follow a very darkside character who's likely to be just as oppressive as Arcann, and a character who is strongly loyal to their own faction, and despises the other, is hardly likely to want to lead an alliance of the two, or win the trust of opposite-faction members of that alliance. I also accept that for many people the story simply isn't 'Star Wars' enough.

 

I also recognise that with the staff and budget levels that Bioware has, it's difficult or impossible to bring out multiple class stories fast enough to keep the game going, so a one-story-fits-all approach is understandable, but not long ago they brought out some reworked opening scenes for the class stories, and various other retrospective changes, which they'd clearly been working on in the background alongside the new content. So I was wondering how feasible it might be to have some devs working in the background on a parallel story, to be released at some unspecified point in the future, that would allow players to choose at the start of KOTFE whether to play as the Outlander against Zakuul, or continue fighting for their own faction against the other, with the war against Zakuul going on in the background (since, currently, the war between the Empire and the Republic is still going on in the background while you're fighting Zakuul). Eventually the two parallel stories would merge again and continue into whatever the devs have in store for the future.

 

I realise this would entail far more work than simply redoing class story cutscenes, but it wouldn't need a specific time scale and it would mean that the many players who hate KOTFE could eventually have the chance to reach future, hopefully good, content without having to either play through a detested story or skip a chunk of the game (which Iokath allows, but leaves new players without a background to the events).

[JakRoanin]

Honestly, I think that the Vanilla games Foreshadowed KOTEE and KOTET beautifully! If you play as an Imperial it's clear that the Emperor is MIA. If you play as a Republic player, it's clear that the Empire's Strategy, while effective, is a mass of chaos. All that is explained by KOTEE and KOTET.

[DuchessKristania]

Companion returns had to be put on the backburner to achieve these changes, and my original plan to do entire chapters for each of them just aren't feasible at this point, so we're currently working on plans to get them back as expediently as possible. (If I sound a little sad about that part in particular, I am, but I think it's perfectly reasonable that folks are out of patience on that one )

 

Overall, story is one of the most difficult areas to implement feedback, since we've usually constructed the next several beats by the time players see any of it and provide feedback. But hopefully this post helps to demonstrate that we still try very hard to implement feedback-driven changes into story regardless of the challenges.

 

Keep the great posts and thoughts - and especially feedback! - coming

 

I've been looking for anything mentioning the next companion returns. I freely admit I could be misremembering, but I thought somewhere it was said that you intended to bring back companions with each actual update. Is that the case, and if so, who is coming back in 5.3? Again, I freely admit I could be wrong on this.

 

I'm actually a published fantasy author, so I understand how difficult writing can be and that you can't make everyone happy. To be honest, I enjoyed the story, but the lack of companion return, or even a sense of urgency to get their love interest back felt very unrealistic to me. With all the craziness going on and five years having passed, I think there are very few people who wouldn't make finding a loved one a huge priority. I realize they can't all come back in a mass migration, but I think it would make the situation more believable if there were occasional in-story updates concerning the search for our missing loved ones. Maybe an npc with interesting hints as to where our missing love interests are. Those are my suggestions anyway.

 

Speaking for my personal preference, if a love interest returns via Alliance Alert, I'd find it much more enjoyable if the alert had a little story to it, and please, please have love interest returns fully voiced. I've waited a long time for my characters to get their spouses back. It would make me very sad if my character is reunited with her spouse and doesn't get a fully voiced interaction, and one heck of a smooch, lol.

Edited July 4, 2017 by DuchessKristania

[Typhaos]

OK.

If you have little staff, make smaller steps.

Why would you think you will be able to deliver such vast project like "KOTET/KOTFE+deleted part of storyline" +companion chapters within reasonable time?

And it probably wouldn't be a problem if the "KOTET/KOTFE+deleted storyline" expansion was released in several parts IF it also didn't mean that automatically the player is cut off everything he had earlier!!

You did this:

we will take away temporarly your galaxy, your companions and make you wait until expansion ends but it will take few YEARS.

And guess what it's even worse because expansion ended and I STILL DON'T HAVE MY COMPANIONS!

But like many people, at this point I want you to give them back with proper story, proper explanation why they did not come back earlier and a lot of emotions!

For the future just don't plan massive blocks of closed content. Content that once opened prevents the player to do anything else. You don't have resources to manage such projects. Make frequent, but smaller additions.

Edited July 5, 2017 by Typhaos

[JattaGin]

This is a great chance to talk about story, and how folks' feedback on story is integrated. Let's use KOTFE, the monthly chapters, and KOTET as the example.

 

A) The original plan was that we would have a trilogy of "Knights of" expansions focused on dealing with Valkorion and his Eternal Empire, with episodic chapters between them. The major story beats would occur in the expansions, while the episodic chapters would be just that: episodic, mostly stand-alone beats focused on returning companions and side stories.

 

B) The most common issues that we saw from the community feedback after KOTFE and the first few monthly chapters were:

1. The story felt dragged out (monthly chapters in particular)
   
2. At least partly due to #1, the companion-focused chapters were not as well-received as the KOTFE ones (although desire to get companions back remained high).
   
3. Many players felt that there weren't enough choices in the storyline with big enough impacts/consequences, or that those impacts/consequences were delayed so far that they didn't feel meaningful or connected.
   
4. Some folks simply didn't like the core premise. Introducing a new empire, expanding on Vitiate/Valkorion, players frozen in carbonite for five years, missing companions, etc.
   

 

C) Changes that were made as a result of that feedback:

1. We compressed the story such that it would be completed in Knights of the Eternal Throne.
   
2. Later monthly chapters were modified to focus more on the core storyline, and less on companion returns.
   
3. The writers constructed the storyline of KOTET specifically to offer bigger choices that would pay off in visible and interesting ways.
   
4. This was the core creative vision of the entire thing, so there wasn't much changed here - it wouldn't really be feasible. That's not to say that we ignored this feedback or don't take it seriously; it's just that any creative endeavor has some core concept at its heart that can't be changed without scrapping everything. This was the story direction that excited us as creators and fans, so it's the one we pursued even as we made the above changes along the way.
   

 

D) The end result: the overall storyline was cut down by more than a third so that it would play out more quickly, while simultaneously introducing more choices and consequences. Companion returns had to be put on the backburner to achieve these changes, and my original plan to do entire chapters for each of them just aren't feasible at this point, so we're currently working on plans to get them back as expediently as possible. (If I sound a little sad about that part in particular, I am, but I think it's perfectly reasonable that folks are out of patience on that one )

 

Overall, story is one of the most difficult areas to implement feedback, since we've usually constructed the next several beats by the time players see any of it and provide feedback. But hopefully this post helps to demonstrate that we still try very hard to implement feedback-driven changes into story regardless of the challenges.

 

Keep the great posts and thoughts - and especially feedback! - coming

 

Re-reading that today makes me feel sad again that they couldn't get their original plan done. I would have loved it.

[Eshvara]

Re-reading that today makes me feel sad again that they couldn't get their original plan done. I would have loved it.

 

Me too, but I guess they did what the people wanted and it sucked. 😥

[DarthSpuds]

Re-reading that today makes me feel sad again that they couldn't get their original plan done. I would have loved it.

 

I don't think there's anything like enough info in Charles; post to assume it would have been good, bad or indifferent.

 

What we do know is that they were working to this plan at least up to the moment the first half of KotFE went live as a seven (or was it 8) chapter bulk release.

 

And some of those chapters are the very worst in the entire KotFE/ET debacle; all of them demonstrate an abject lack of creativity with story, pacing, combat mechanics, and originality.

 

By the time you are done with Chapter 4 you have seen the combat and level design cadence for everything released since then - and it is boring.

 

Corridor > Three Skytroopers > Corridor > Three Skiytroopers > Corridor > Four Skytroopers > Corridor > Three Skytroopers > Corridor > Wave Of Skytroopers > Corridor > Boss > Corridor > Three Skytroopers > Corridor > Three Skiytroopers > Corridor > Four Skytroopers > Corridor > Three Skytroopers > Corridor > Wave Of Skytroopers > Corridor > Boss > Corridor > Three Skytroopers > Corridor > Three Skiytroopers > Corridor > Four Skytroopers > Corridor > Three Skytroopers > Corridor > Wave Of Skytroopers > Corridor > Boss > Corridor > Three Skytroopers > Corridor > Three Skiytroopers > Corridor > Four Skytroopers > Corridor > Three Skytroopers > Corridor > Wave Of Skytroopers > Corridor > Boss > Corridor > Three Skytroopers > Corridor > Three Skiytroopers > Corridor > Four Skytroopers > Corridor > Three Skytroopers > Corridor > Wave Of Skytroopers > Corridor > Boss.

 

Cutting that rubbish down from Three Expacs to Two was the biggest bonus of them having to shorten it all.

 

All The Best

[kodrac]

Re-reading that today makes me feel sad again that they couldn't get their original plan done. I would have loved it.

 

Trouble is, reading through it was better than playing through it. They took their fun sounding concept and made it tedious and nonsensical one size fits all..

[Estelindis]

Re-reading that today makes me feel sad again that they couldn't get their original plan done. I would have loved it.

I feel the same way. Combat in KotFE wasn't always fun, but the character-focused stuff was good. Even a chapter that I didn't otherwise like, Anarchy in Paradise, was vastly improved when I played it with an agent who'd romanced Kaliyo. Everything felt like it fit better and was more meaningful. But because of the complaining, those of us still waiting for companions may not get to enjoy that sort of experience.

 

I really hope that the wait is properly rewarded rather than us getting haphazard returns like poor fans of Dorne and Quinn. Even though the full three-act plan was scrapped, it's still possible to write good, substantial companion returns. I really think it's better to take more time with them and make them solid. A bad return is bad forever. A good return is good forever.

Edited September 12, 2017 by Estelindis

[HKtheindomitable]

I feel the same way. Combat in KotFE wasn't always fun, but the character-focused stuff was good. Even a chapter that I didn't otherwise like, Anarchy in Paradise, was vastly improved when I played it with an agent who'd romanced Kaliyo. Everything felt like it fit better and was more meaningful. But because of the complaining, those of us still waiting for companions may not get to enjoy that sort of experience.

 

I really hope that the wait is properly rewarded rather than us getting haphazard returns like poor fans of Dorne and Quinn. Even though the full three-act plan was scrapped, it's still possible to write good, substantial companion returns. I really think it's better to take more time with them and make them solid. A bad return is bad forever. A good return is good forever.

 

Agreed. I love KotFE and KotET. Unfortunately this is what the complaining has given us. One can definitely see how impatience is bad, and patience is good. And most of the complaints about it being "tedious" were from those that would rather spacebar through the dialogue. Don't get me wrong, Chapter 9 was tedious to me too, but only because you would be engaged in combat when the enemy NPCs were really far away and your companion wouldn't go attack them because they were attacking you with an effect, not actual damage dealing attacks. Someone with power in the company (E.A. more likely than BioWare) gave in to the complaining rather than sticking with the original plan.

 

Isn't player impatience grand? /s

 

If E.A. would fund this game better, we could have had the original plan, as well as whatever faster paced story not long after (along with any multiplayer content). It's like E.A. is willing to take our money through SWTOR, but secretly hopes the game will just go away so they don't have to spend money anymore. That could also be the result of the Disney marketing department trying so hard to push new movie story stuff that they're trampling what already exists.

 

Isn't greed and selfishness just the most wonderful thing ever? /s

[kodrac]

And most of the complaints about it being "tedious" were from those that would rather spacebar through the dialogue.

 

You know what they say about assume, right?

[Decidion]

Wow, this thread is still going?

 

If you're naive to think that our feedback truly does matter, its time to wake up. If it did, this Galactic Command debacle would have been scrapped months ago. I have never seen so many people complain (and leave the game) about this single decision, which they have refused to truly address, than any other issue in any other game I have played (going back to 1992).

[bdatt]

The fully instanced chapter presentation (single player game in an MMO engine) needed to go. And I've never been shy about my disdain for all my characters being railroaded into the Outlander. But I've really enjoyed the lore around Zakuul and Iokath and didn't mind the new enemy and threat per se. And the dialog and such was really good in KOTXX. The cinematics that were "off screen" were overdone though, but that's minor.

 

I guess we'll see but I hope there are some big explorable areas that elaborate on the lore for these new worlds.

Edited September 12, 2017 by bdatt

[Costello]

According to this, player companions should have come back quicker yet it seems all the issues that people have had with the pacing and what was happening has resulted in less content, less meaningful story or choices and less companions returning. As we would have had monthly story and companion quests and be looking to the final installment. Instead there has been almost no advancement of the story, minimal return of companions (I can only think of 2 and that was poorly done) and very very little added to keep people in game.

 

In all honesty it seems like everyone at BW knows the game is being left to die while any revenue it does generate is being moved into other game development. Not as this would have us believe responding to player feedback to bring back companions faster and allow for more meaningful dynamic content where choices really mattered.

[IoNonSoEVero]

Re-reading that today makes me feel sad again that they couldn't get their original plan done. I would have loved it.

 

I agree. I would have loved to see the plan as it was originally intended to play out. Especially those side and companion stories; that's what many have asked for. IMHO they should have just kept going with monthly chapters. I mean, at this point, we'd all be falling over ourselves if they brought back story with that frequency.

 

It seems like with the companions they can't win...people apparently complained about the entire chapters but the way Quinn and Elara Dorne were brought back didn't work for many people either.

Edited September 12, 2017 by IoNonSoEVero

[kodrac]

I agree. I would have loved to see the plan as it was originally intended to play out. Especially those side and companion stories; that's what many have asked for. IMHO they should have just kept going with monthly chapters. I mean, at this point, we'd all be falling over ourselves if they brought back story with that frequency.

 

It seems like with the companions they can't win...people apparently complained about the entire chapters but the way Quinn and Elara Dorne were brought back didn't work for many people either.

 

Having companions return through their own stories/chapters would be great. I think most people would be happy with that. That's essentially what chapters 10-14 in KOTFE were. However, they were within a yet to be resolved story so it made said story (KOTFE) feel drawn out. If they were to now make content updates for companion returns irrespective of what's going on in the greater story line, I think they'd be welcomed by many, if not all as new content to do.

[Renata_Roselli]

Our feedback gets tossed in the trash. If it didn't, the game wouldn't be dead right now.

[orangenee]

I believe the process is as follows:

 

1) Request feedback

 

2) Read through innumerable requests

 

3) Post requests in break room

 

4) Eric, Keith and the remaining coder take turns in throwing darts at the printed list of feedback whilst laughing maniacally (think Dr. Evil)