If not Raiding/PvP, then what?

[Storm-Cutter]

Playing Grimm Eclipse on my laptop between GSF pops and the occasional banter with my friends in-game.

 

I do enough to get Conquest points over 20K most weeks, just from PvP and GSF, and that's about it.

 

Seriously considering whether it's worth my sub much longer, TBH. - Since all my guild have drifted away. I see them more IRL than online in SWTOR these days.

 

My love of this game is certainly coming to a Middle.

[Ambramotte]

I'm gonna be deliberately harsh here (as I am whenever I say this).

 

If all you have left is NiM Ops and PvP, you may be done with the game. Especially if those no longer satisfy you. Take a break, do something else with your time and money.

 

Hence why I'm asking this question

 

In all honestly, I think you may be right. I'm not saying that this is the only way to play the game, but *for me* most of the things people are talking about just don't interest me (FPs, strongholds, dailies, rep grind, etc.) because it's more of a grind than a challenge. I can see how people with a completionist-like* (emphasis on the 'like' part) can get excited about grinding - just not my cup of tea.

 

Again, thanks to everyone who has taken the time out to respond. Always interested to hear how others are liking the game.

[psandak]

As others have suggested: alts.

 

But my twist on this is that there are myriad story variations to explore with those alts. Just in the level 1-50 vanilla story (starter planet through Corellia) you have:

 

• eight distinct class stories
  
• a whole rainbow of alignment
  
• two genders and at least one romance per gender per class to engage in or not
  

 

The I way I see it is that a given player would have to create a minimum of 16 characters to explore those variations. But that assumes you are into the story.

[Shwarzchild]

There are a few weeklies I still do. I do the star fortress and eternal championship weekly missions. Sometimes knock out my pvp weekly if I'm feeling so inclined. I still raid on teams 4-5 nights a week to get my fix since there's still some bosses I haven't killed yet.

 

I'm also a bit of an achievement junky, so I have been sinking some time into the macrobinocular daily missions to grab the last few pieces of dread seed and star forager armor that I don't have as well as the GSI stuff. I did all the DvL stuff.

 

I'm working another character through Kotfe, even if I really didn't want to. I'm basically working to get the Eternal Legend title by bringing every class through the Eternal Champ. It just means I have to go play 9 chapters first which still stings.

 

Of course though, the metrics will say that I'm spending more time doing solo content so that's what I want to be playing when in reality it's not. I'm just playing it because I have to.

[LyraineAlei]

As others have suggested: alts.

 

But my twist on this is that there are myriad story variations to explore with those alts. Just in the level 1-50 vanilla story (starter planet through Corellia) you have:

 

• eight distinct class stories
  
• a whole rainbow of alignment
  
• two genders and at least one romance per gender per class to engage in or not
  

 

The I way I see it is that a given player would have to create a minimum of 16 characters to explore those variations. But that assumes you are into the story.

 

Optional as well:

 

• One alt for each spec (brings alt count to 24)
  
• Two male Agent (to romance Kaliyo, or Temple)
  
• Two Male Warriors (DS Jaesa, Vette)
  
• Two Male SMugglers (Risha or Akaavi)
  
• At least three total agents due to the sort-of multiple endings and paths
  

[Tsetso]

I'm gonna be deliberately harsh here (as I am whenever I say this).

 

If all you have left is NiM Ops and PvP, you may be done with the game. Especially if those no longer satisfy you. Take a break, do something else with your time and money.

 

PVP and HM/NIM raiding for me are the only social parts of the game(excluding role-playing but if i wanted to role play i'd do it with some friends and a tabletop game live) I play a lot of single player games so i don't need another one(with a 5 year old graphics, lame story on rails and not very challenging gameplay)

 

After a couple of months, when my raid group clears the remaining nims, I'll probably take a permanent break but for now i'm enjoying it while i can, and i must say that i find your advice offending.

[VegasTheLost]

To think about it OP you ask for challenge. NiM OPS are challenging. Get to be experienced enough to become a NiM raider is quite the challenge. Too bad you're not into raiding....

[IanArgent]

PVP and HM/NIM raiding for me are the only social parts of the game(excluding role-playing but if i wanted to role play i'd do it with some friends and a tabletop game live) I play a lot of single player games so i don't need another one(with a 5 year old graphics, lame story on rails and not very challenging gameplay)

 

After a couple of months, when my raid group clears the remaining nims, I'll probably take a permanent break but for now i'm enjoying it while i can, and i must say that i find your advice offending.

 

That's the flip side of what I challenged. IT's like asking "once you've taken the first place trophy in your Y's soccer league, what else is there to do?" You don't play hobby sports just for the trohpy, you play it for the social aspect.

[therecanonlybeon]

i like decorating strongholds but its expensive:p

[Transcendent]

Ok, honest question here:

For people who don't do advanced HM/NiM raiding, HM FPs, or PvP .... what do you do once you reach max level?

 

Sometimes I open my achievements list and pick something off there, other times I'll run Heroics / Dailies / Weeklies / Events. Stronghold redecorating, which tends to lead to GTN shopping, which then leads to me going "oooh shiny" on something else. Gearing, sorting gear out for 24 alts, crafting, selling stuff on the GTN, gathering for crafting, levelling new characters gathering skills.

 

I generally get sidetracked, or I'll mix up what I decide to do on any day that I login, or specifically only run one type of content on any given day. There is plenty of variety to what you can do. I find it far better to mix up what I do on every different day, purely to "chip away" at those little things that may seem very "grindy" if you try to do it all in one hit.

[TUXs]

Well, most of the players I once knew are off playing W0W...so...I guess that counts?! Edited September 19, 2016 by TUXs

[MadDutchman]

I'm an altoholic, so I have an infinite amount of content ahead of me.

 

I know not everyone enjoys it, but dam it's convenient for those of us who do.

 

 

I'm the kind of guy who likes to re-watch and re-read movies/shows and books over and over again over the years. It's kind of odd thinking about it. My memory is excellent, it's not like I forget parts of the content, I just like seeing it again.

 

Now make that content a game where you get to choose your responses and your path (to some extent), and it makes it really easy to do multiple times. Unless it's the Trooper story. Still can't finish that one.

Edited September 19, 2016 by MadDutchman

[Andryah]

Hence why I'm asking this question

 

In all honestly, I think you may be right. I'm not saying that this is the only way to play the game, but *for me* most of the things people are talking about just don't interest me (FPs, strongholds, dailies, rep grind, etc.) because it's more of a grind than a challenge. I can see how people with a completionist-like* (emphasis on the 'like' part) can get excited about grinding - just not my cup of tea.

 

Again, thanks to everyone who has taken the time out to respond. Always interested to hear how others are liking the game.

 

Years ago, I used to do a lot of raiding and PvP in MMOs. Now days, I only do them if my guild needs a slot filled in the team.

 

Why did I give them up for the most part? Because after a few years, it became the same cookie mill grind as anything else, regardless of the MMO, only with more dependencies on other players and more overhead to prepare and play.

 

Now days, I do some of just about everything there is in game with the exception of GSF, which I have yet to touch. I have found that doing a wide variety of things, even if they are not specifically and immediately productive to an end goal, inhibits burnout and boredom. I also set my self only broad casual goals as I play. I may plan on doing some character leveling on an alt, but then I wake up in the morning and I decide to change focus and I go out and explore, or do some crafting, and working the GTN for bargains, or working on a stronghold, or any of an number of things. If I am not passionate about anything in particular for the day, then at this point I probably will run some heroics for the Alliance faction rewards. Sometimes I simply don't feel like playing.... so I don't. Sometimes I feel like playing a different MMO for a few days... so I do.

 

Free flowing, not putting rigid goals or deadlines on myself, and just doing whatever I feel some passion to do that day, and having at least two MMOs active at all times has meant that I rarely get tired or burn out on an MMO these days. Back when I was actively raiding and PvPing, I found it to eventually cause stratification in play and hence lost enjoyment. And switching to a second MMO did not solve the issue for me, as it was not the content, but the mechanics of play that were the issue, particularly with raids. PvP, less so, but it still can get too intense and tedious after a while.

 

I learned about a decade ago that an MMO is for relaxing and enjoying and that playing only a fixed narrow set of content would quickly become a job of sorts. The more I diversified my play, the less I found myself falling into a rut and getting tired or bored or burned out.

 

TL;DR Taking it easy, free flowing to my interests of the day, and avoiding rigid fixed schedules and game play is what works for me. It's supposed to be fun, not a job, and not something where lots of other people are dependent on if I show up or not.

Edited September 19, 2016 by Andryah

[Damask_Rose]

I'm an alt player. Lots and lots of alts. Alts of all levels & classes. They are all slowly working their way through the class quests, Ilum, Makeb, Macrobinocular & Seekerdroids, Czerka, Oricon, SoR, Ziost and finally KotFE.

 

I am working on my strongholds, since I moved servers I haven't redecorated all of them. I dabble with outfits. I dabble with achievements. I still have a few datacrons to get. Sometimes I go haring off and work on titles.

 

I spend a lot of my time running heroics for gear. I'm working on filling in TorFashion's databases for mission rewards and world drops. Exile can always use the help! Keep that in mind when KotET hits. She is just one woman and she has sites for other MMOs as well. If you find something she doesn't have documented, submit it!

 

I started playing MMOs with Asheron's Call which was very grind heavy and had little if anything that would be considered "end game", so none of this feels grindy to me.

[_NovaBlast_]

You don't find that a bit grindy?

 

as I said I dont normally hunt achievements they just sort of pop up while i am playing normally. As for the alliance grind that just happens as well while i am doing the weekly planetary heroics. You get a TON of box by the time your done all the planets.

[Andryah]

I started playing MMOs with Asheron's Call which was very grind heavy and had little if anything that would be considered "end game", so none of this feels grindy to me.

 

Asheron's Call.. good times back in the day.

 

That was my first MMO as well, and yeah... that was a grind fest, but it did have a large world with lots of interesting things to see and do (in somewhat clunky graphics). And corpse runs.... never forget the corpse runs.

[Damask_Rose]

Asheron's Call.. good times back in the day.

 

That was my first MMO as well, and yeah... that was a grind fest, but it did have a large world with lots of interesting things to see and do (in somewhat clunky graphics). And corpse runs.... never forget the corpse runs.

 

/e fistbump Old Thistledown player here.

[Rion_Starkiller]

Ok, honest question here:

For people who don't do advanced HM/NiM raiding, HM FPs, or PvP .... what do you do once you reach max level?

 

I understand that some people like the story, but I can't see running in more than once or twice. Too repetitive, no challenge, etc. There's been the DVL in case you want to levels toons ad nauseam, but I wouldn't consider that end-game content.

 

So, to the folks who don't do advanced HM or NiM raids, don't run HM FPs, and don't PVP ... what do you do in the game once you reach max level?

 

You can do all of your weeklies for reputation. Getting maxed rep grants titles, and increases available legacy gear.

 

Weeklies used to be a thing, but not so much since 4.0. I think Yavin was the last planet with a weekly....?

Edited September 19, 2016 by Rion_Starkiller

[LyraineAlei]

You can do all of your weeklies for reputation. Getting maxed rep grants titles, and increases available legacy gear.

 

Weeklies used to be a thing, but not so much since 4.0. I think Yavin was the last planet with a weekly....?

 

Yes. I think people were complaining about "grinding for reputation" or something. Odessan would be a great place to have a daily zone on "scouting out the area" or "preparing the area for base expansion." Kill stuff, collect stuff, the usual.

 

EDIT: Yavin was the last with a Reputation and Weekly. Ziost was the last with a weekly.

Edited September 19, 2016 by LyraineAlei

[IanArgent]

You can do all of your weeklies for reputation. Getting maxed rep grants titles, and increases available legacy gear.

 

Weeklies used to be a thing, but not so much since 4.0. I think Yavin was the last planet with a weekly....?

 

And once you've maxed rep (as I have or nearly have)? It's why I keep saying that the Alliance Influence grind is (in some ways) better than the old rep grinds - there is no end to it, as long as you make new characters. (YMMV, of course, that could be a negative as well)

[Mahoukenshi]

Personally, I was never interested in the endgame itself. Even though I never got invested into end-game raids, doing (normal) dungeons - no matter how easy they are - have caused "negative" stress in me when doing them in a group. Maybe it's because I prefer carebear mode or maybe because I can't cope with or don't want others being dependant on how good I play . yet for some reason open world casual grouping (or co-op mode à la GW2) are alright-ish.

 

I enjoy the grind to the max. level but don't like other forms of farming. I'm the first to admit that this doesn't make that much sense! So once I have reached whatever I wanted, I either switch to an alt or lose naturally interest and stop playing (like I find something more interesting and kinda "forget" the MMO. No hard feelings). But I also don't consider myself as a member of an MMOs target group.

[Tsetso]

And once you've maxed rep (as I have or nearly have)? It's why I keep saying that the Alliance Influence grind is (in some ways) better than the old rep grinds - there is no end to it, as long as you make new characters. (YMMV, of course, that could be a negative as well)

 

{Following that logic, it's easy to come to the conclusion that the collection system is the worst thing happening to the game. People would be quite happy to grind credits to buy the outfits they want on all of their new characters}

[Andryah]

Yes. I think people were complaining about "grinding for reputation" or something. Odessan would be a great place to have a daily zone on "scouting out the area" or "preparing the area for base expansion." Kill stuff, collect stuff, the usual.

 

EDIT: Yavin was the last with a Reputation and Weekly. Ziost was the last with a weekly.

 

Some people apparently love dailies. I don't and never have. I still do some of them if they are relevant to my personal play.

 

I think there is a larger problem at foot here. The MMO formula is pretty mature, and there is not that much in the way of new innovation. We are left with either Sandbox or Themepark and each comes with it's own established framework for content and features. For Themeparks... it's an old formula of leveling, grouping, raids, PvP, crafting, the player economy, dailies, other types of faction grinds, etc. The last major innovation in the market, IMO, was TSW trying to do away with classic leveling formula. Before that it was WoW which shifted the Themepark MMO out of the perpetual grind and set a new standard for leveling in the market. There is not much new to innovate in the Themepark space.

 

Different studios will put more or less effort into specific aspects of different types of content. None of them are the best at everything, but WoW is probably closest in the Themepark space. But even for Wow, it's the same every expac, with a few adjustments to changing tastes in game play by players (ie: no more 40 mans with attunement pre-reqs as one example).

 

I think players as a broad general case, are tiring of the MMO formula, but still have that spark of passion in their memories from their first MMO. One would think that in this dynamic, Sandbox would be getting it's heyday in the market. But the problem is Sandbox is hard and unfriendly for many... and particularly if they grew up on console games and more recently mobile gaming. I personally like the Sandbox approach, but there is not much out there to grab my attention.

Edited September 19, 2016 by Andryah

[Rion_Starkiller]

What I particularly like about the Yavin weekly (when it was new) are these things:

• collect crafting mats (nodes, kills, etc)
  
• build up reputation
  
• get your companion a 192 purple legacy weapon (1st run through on each toon)
  
• make good money (including slicing nodes)
  

 

Ziost had great potential, but to this day feels unfinished.

Edited September 19, 2016 by Rion_Starkiller

[Transcendent]

What I particularly like about the Yavin weekly (when it was new) are these things:

• collect crafting mats (nodes, kills, etc)
  
• build up reputation
  
• get your companion a 192 purple legacy weapon (1st run through on each toon)
  
• make good money (including slicing nodes)
  

 

Ziost had great potential, but to this day feels unfinished.

 

Ziost had brilliant potential. However the lack of reputation grind / vendors specific to the reputation seems like an oversight. It was one of the reasons to run weeklies, to gain reputation, to gain access to legacy gear etc. Lack of gathering nodes didn't help. The token system they added wasn't anywhere near an incentive.

 

I still think BioWare could have done something more with that speeder mechanic they introduced. God I would love to see racing in this game against other players using something like that, maybe specific swoop bike tracks using that mechanic.

 

Heck, I'd rather see a "swoop bike racing" expansion than KotET right now. Just to add something as repeatable group content... as long as they didn't just abandon it like GSF.

Edited September 19, 2016 by Transcendent