If not Raiding/PvP, then what?

[PlasmaJohn]

In general I do believe that hardcore raiders are generally well organized and work as a team and want more and more. I have yet to see an MMO that was able to sustain them completely between expacs.

 

Good raid teams in todays market are best served by being a bit more nomadic and progressing from one MMO to another once they have finished progression in whatever the current MMO is. And, this is what many of them do.. sometimes as an intact team... especially if they have played together for years and are part of a long established guild that does support it's members playing across more then one MMO.

For Mythic level raiders this is probably true but that's such a small sub niche.

 

The HM guild I was in here eventually migrated to WoW where they've been happily raiding at the Heroic level. The release cadence between WoD's raids and Legion's raids seems to be spot on. They've also known well in advance when they were coming.

 

Some have poked their heads back here or Wildstar occasionally but not seriously.

[Damask_Rose]

It's not about understanding what others want, it's about the simple fact that group content hasn't been updated for two years in a game that's called an MMO. If that doesn't make people wonder, then that's ok, but it does raise the question why people are willing to pay monthly for something that you normally just pay 40-50 bucks for and that's it.

 

Not adding new operations is not the same thing as not updating group content. 4.0 was less than a year ago and it included a lot of changes for group content.

 

Level-sync so everyone can group with everyone else regardless of level. Low level players aren't penalized for grouping with their higher leveled friends. World bosses can no longer be solo'd as an added benefit.

 

Flashpoint and ops bolsters so more people can play together. Levels raised so the gear is still relevant for all. New set gear.

 

Story mode flashpoints changed to tactical so it's easier to get groups.

 

Class balance changes.

 

HM Starforges & TEC can be done in groups. HM Red Reaper added. 2 new pvp maps added.

 

Personal loot so ninjas don't ruin pugs.

[Andryah]

Not adding new operations is not the same thing as not updating group content. 4.0 was less than a year ago and it included a lot of changes for group content.

 

Level-sync so everyone can group with everyone else regardless of level. Low level players aren't penalized for grouping with their higher leveled friends. World bosses can no longer be solo'd as an added benefit.

 

Flashpoint and ops bolsters so more people can play together. Levels raised so the gear is still relevant for all. New set gear.

 

Story mode flashpoints changed to tactical so it's easier to get groups.

 

Class balance changes.

 

HM Starforges & TEC can be done in groups. HM Red Reaper added. 2 new pvp maps added.

 

Personal loot so ninjas don't ruin pugs.

 

I agree.

[PlasmaJohn]

Not adding new operations is not the same thing as not updating group content. 4.0 was less than a year ago and it included a lot of changes for group content.

 

Level-sync so everyone can group with everyone else regardless of level. ...

Yes that was a big change and in some respects a necessary one. With some caveats it's a huge improvement to queue population potential. But it does nothing to help those that are utterly bored with those instances. The information collected by torstatus is very telling in that regard.

 

Unfortunately there's only so much you can do with stale bread. Two years is a really long time to be replaying the same thing again. If the rumors about a level bump and new gear tiers are true that's just going to cause people to burn out even harder.

[LyraineAlei]

... If the rumors about a level bump and new gear tiers are true that's just going to cause people to burn out even harder.

 

"Metrics from the DvL event show up that players really like playing story! Look at all these numbers of players starting their class stories on Tython/Ord Mantell/Korriban/Hutta and Coruscant/Dromund Kaas, and all these characters playing through KotFE! We don't need to update the other things, people aren't playing them!"

 

"Uh, sir, all those numbers also show people doing PvP, GSF, and group stuff, as well as Story and KotFE. You made the requirements for achievements include group stuff."

 

"Shushushushushush! Players want more story! Oh, and for the rest, uh... I guess, make another arena map themed like Odessen, and then, uh, add an Alliance Championship, like the Eternal Championship, but with Alliance people!"

[Tsillah]

Not adding new operations is not the same thing as not updating group content. 4.0 was less than a year ago and it included a lot of changes for group content.

 

Level-sync so everyone can group with everyone else regardless of level. Low level players aren't penalized for grouping with their higher leveled friends. World bosses can no longer be solo'd as an added benefit.

 

Flashpoint and ops bolsters so more people can play together. Levels raised so the gear is still relevant for all. New set gear.

 

Story mode flashpoints changed to tactical so it's easier to get groups.

 

Class balance changes.

 

HM Starforges & TEC can be done in groups. HM Red Reaper added. 2 new pvp maps added.

 

Personal loot so ninjas don't ruin pugs.

 

Sigh, changes to existing content is not new content.

 

Do you really think that a person who played the same operations and FPs for years is interested in easy mode versions of the same content? Do you really think that long time raiders were waiting for SM ops as of level 50 with bolster?

 

The few bits of group content that you mentioned are barely worth mentioning. PvP has been suffering for longer than 2 years and a new warzone and an 4v4 arena are a pittance at best after so much time. SF as group content...lol. Yeh you can do it with multiple people but that's where that comparison ends. Also that is but a pittance, a minuscule addition to a much larger concept. Honestly, it's barely worth mentioning and so I prefer not to. There is no challenge there unless you solo it. That's the irony of SF.

 

People who are asking for group content generally don't just mean stuff you can do with other players, but stuff that requires other players or you can't complete it, something that is at least remotely challenging and satisfying to complete. Currently SWTOR fails on all of that.

 

If they'd just been honest and said challenging content is in the past, people could just be at peace with that and move on. This is the reality though and KotET is sort of the last time that BW can decide whether this oversimplification of all content is a trend or if it was a momentary reset. If it's a trend then I'll be sure to stay away from the game as an MMO. I'll just come back for a couple of weeks to play through the story once the season is done and then leave again. As an MMO this game no longer has what it takes for MMO players. If it works for the remaining SWTOR players that's fine but I'm not paying for an MMO that doesn't offer new content on all fronts on at least a somewhat regular basis. Once every 2-3 years won't do that for me.

 

So hey, enjoy it. Apparently it's good enough for you, but serious group content is just something that hasn't been part of this game for a while now and it's all just too easy, including the leveling.

[gabigool]

Not adding new operations is not the same thing as not updating group content. 4.0 was less than a year ago and it included a lot of changes for group content.

 

Level-sync so everyone can group with everyone else regardless of level. Low level players aren't penalized for grouping with their higher leveled friends. World bosses can no longer be solo'd as an added benefit.

 

Flashpoint and ops bolsters so more people can play together. Levels raised so the gear is still relevant for all. New set gear.

 

Story mode flashpoints changed to tactical so it's easier to get groups.

 

Class balance changes.

 

HM Starforges & TEC can be done in groups. HM Red Reaper added. 2 new pvp maps added.

 

Personal loot so ninjas don't ruin pugs.

 

*****IMO*****

 

Without new Operations, the other stuff does not matter. (Not to mention some those changes are for the worse)

[Damask_Rose]

Sigh, changes to existing content is not new content.

 

Do you really think that a person who played the same operations and FPs for years is interested in easy mode versions of the same content? Do you really think that long time raiders were waiting for SM ops as of level 50 with bolster?

 

The few bits of group content that you mentioned are barely worth mentioning. PvP has been suffering for longer than 2 years and a new warzone and an 4v4 arena are a pittance at best after so much time. SF as group content...lol. Yeh you can do it with multiple people but that's where that comparison ends. Also that is but a pittance, a minuscule addition to a much larger concept. Honestly, it's barely worth mentioning and so I prefer not to. There is no challenge there unless you solo it. That's the irony of SF.

 

People who are asking for group content generally don't just mean stuff you can do with other players, but stuff that requires other players or you can't complete it, something that is at least remotely challenging and satisfying to complete. Currently SWTOR fails on all of that.

 

If they'd just been honest and said challenging content is in the past, people could just be at peace with that and move on. This is the reality though and KotET is sort of the last time that BW can decide whether this oversimplification of all content is a trend or if it was a momentary reset. If it's a trend then I'll be sure to stay away from the game as an MMO. I'll just come back for a couple of weeks to play through the story once the season is done and then leave again. As an MMO this game no longer has what it takes for MMO players. If it works for the remaining SWTOR players that's fine but I'm not paying for an MMO that doesn't offer new content on all fronts on at least a somewhat regular basis. Once every 2-3 years won't do that for me.

 

So hey, enjoy it. Apparently it's good enough for you, but serious group content is just something that hasn't been part of this game for a while now and it's all just too easy, including the leveling.

 

Then you should say what you mean. I'm going to re-quote the part I was responding to because you seem to have totally missed the point of my response. "it's about the simple fact that group content hasn't been updated for two years". Your simple fact is wrong and I was simply showing that yes, indeed, group content has been updated within the past year. Updated means any change, not just adding new things.

 

"Do you really think that a person who played the same operations and FPs for years is interested in easy mode versions of the same content?" No I don't and I didn't say they are, nor did the post I quoted say anything about players' interests. Any change to to ops & flashpoints, wanted or not, is still an update.

 

"Do you really think that long time raiders were waiting for SM ops as of level 50 with bolster?" Again, no I don't and I didn't say they were, nor did the passage I quoted say anything about what long term raiders were waiting for. Bolster, wanted or not, is still an update.

 

"People who are asking for group content generally don't just mean stuff you can do with other players, but stuff that requires other players or you can't complete it, something that is at least remotely challenging and satisfying to complete." I never discussed what people have been asking for. Easy small group content is still group content, whether people wanted it or not.

 

"If they'd just been honest and said challenging content is in the past, people could just be at peace with that and move on." And this is why I refuted your statement that there have been no updates to group content. Bioware plays a semantics game and sloppy use of terms feeds right into their hands. If the new, undisclosed, group content is challenging to new or bad players, Bioware can honestly say they will be adding in challenging new group content. What they probably can't honestly say is that they are adding in large group content that a seasoned raider will find challenging. Don't give them the wiggle room.

 

"So hey, enjoy it. Apparently it's good enough for you" Nowhere in my post did I say I thought it was fine for Bioware to go so long without new ops., and I am infuriated with the way Bioware has dodged the issue. I fully agree that we are long over-due for NEW ops and flashpoints. I also think pvp is sadly under-served and has been since the beginning. Not to mention the poor, poor GSF folks. I am also fully on the "game is too easy now" band-wagon. My thoughts and feelings about the direction of the game are immaterial to my post. I am actually on your side, but that doesn't change the fact that your "fact" wasn't factual.

[Khevar]

Then you should say what you mean. I'm going to re-quote the part I was responding to because you seem to have totally missed the point of my response. "it's about the simple fact that group content hasn't been updated for two years". Your simple fact is wrong and I was simply showing that yes, indeed, group content has been updated within the past year.

Updated means any change, not just adding new things.

I feel like you actually knew what Tsillah meant, and are purposefully arguing semantics for no reason.

 

Yes. The word "updated" does apply to 4.0, as all flashpoints and all operations were rescaled to level 65.

 

But when I read the post you quoted, here, it's patently obvious to me that the complaint was about NEW content. And not just operations. There have been no new flashpoints since Rishii (almost two years ago). There has only been one new Heroic since Oricon (almost three years ago).

 

Almost every single "update" that happened in 4.0 outside of the KotFE story utilized old content.

 

Surely you're aware of this fact?

Edited September 22, 2016 by Khevar

[Tsillah]

Then you should say what you mean. I'm going to re-quote the part I was responding to because you seem to have totally missed the point of my response. "it's about the simple fact that group content hasn't been updated for two years". Your simple fact is wrong and I was simply showing that yes, indeed, group content has been updated within the past year. Updated means any change, not just adding new things.

 

If you want to fight over imprecision that's fine.

 

My simple fact was not stated as precise as you wanted but what I meant is no mystery and you know it.

 

So let's be more precise so that you can get over this.

 

The truth is still that there has been no group content for the last two years in PvE. You count SF as group content but I don't. To me it's solo content because doing it as a group makes it laughable. You can call it social content if you want but it doesn't fit what I would call group content for the reasons I mentioned. For me group content is content that requires a group of players to complete and has some tactical requirements so that it's not automatically steam rolled by a group of players that has at least a bit of clue about their classes. SF is none of that. Same goes for EC, that's also solo content to me. They only give the group option in those two places because they know there are a lot of fail players in this game so they had to find a way to keep it somewhat challenging but still make it possible for almost everyone to complete it by getting help. Hence the 2+. That's just like heroics incidentally. Since 4.0 people group up for those because it means more credits drop, not because it's group content.

 

I hope that makes it easier for you to understand.

 

PvP is the only thing where something was added, I acknowledged that, but PvP has been waiting for much longer and it's a part of the game that has suffered greatly from it. Just look at all the threads about queues not popping and premades in non ranked and you see the problems. BW as usual has done nothing for years to do anything about that.

 

Now, I will agree with you that a pittance is not the same as nothing, so sure, I wasn't exact. But if a couple of warzones and some social content at best is all it takes to please you in over two years, then you're probably the right type of customer for this game in its current pitiful state and I'm not. This is why I unsubbed. Now KotET could theoretically give me cause to resub, but I'll wait till October 7th to determine that.

 

But I hope you are not suggesting that group content has had a big enough share in the development of the game in the last 2 years because then I'll just laugh at you. It's been a drought and a couple of drops of water won't fix that.

 

And as I said, QoL updates are not new content. That's where you were wrong so as fierce as you are about my imprecision, you are guilty just the same.

[Damask_Rose]

But I hope you are not suggesting that group content has had a big enough share in the development of the game in the last 2 years because then I'll just laugh at you. It's been a drought and a couple of drops of water won't fix that.

 

And as I said, QoL updates are not new content. That's where you were wrong so as fierce as you are about my imprecision, you are guilty just the same.

 

You keep reading things into my posts that simply are not there. I was not responding to the whole thread, or even to your whole post. I thought I made it abundantly clear exactly which passage of your post I was responding to. You made a statement of fact that was wrong. It was A binary statement that had no qualifiers about quantity or quality. The entirety of my response to that very specific passage was that your statement of fact was wrong and I listed why.

 

I was not suggesting that group content has had enough development resources devoted to it. I didn't suggest anything. (In my rebuttal I very clearly stated that I don't think raiding, pvp or GSF have gotten enough attention). I also did not say anything about QoL updates being new content. I have no idea how you got that idea. I listed all of the group content updates since last November that I could think of. Full stop. I didn't judge the quantity, quality or type of update. I just listed their existence since you declared they didn't exist.

 

As a sidebar - you and most players might not consider HM Star Forges to be group content, but Bioware has repeatedly referred to them that way which is why I listed them as group content additions. I have also read several posts by people who couldn't solo those and felt they need a group. I have also seen general chat spam from people needing help.

[Tsillah]

You keep reading things into my posts that simply are not there. I was not responding to the whole thread, or even to your whole post. I thought I made it abundantly clear exactly which passage of your post I was responding to. You made a statement of fact that was wrong. It was A binary statement that had no qualifiers about quantity or quality. The entirety of my response to that very specific passage was that your statement of fact was wrong and I listed why.

 

I am not reading that into it. That's why I said "I HOPE you are not suggesting", because it's a possible interpretation but not the only one and I really hoped that wasn't where you were going with it. So no, I wasn't reading that into it, I was wondering if that's what you were suggesting. You now say it isn't what you're suggesting so now I know. That's how a discussion works.

 

As a sidebar - you and most players might not consider HM Star Forges to be group content, but Bioware has repeatedly referred to them that way which is why I listed them as group content additions. I have also read several posts by people who couldn't solo those and felt they need a group. I have also seen general chat spam from people needing help.

 

Well Bioware can tell us that red is actually blue, doesn't actually make it blue. They do decide what goes into the game or not but they don't get to make definitions for me.

 

Oh and some people also need help with story bosses, doesn't make that group content either.

 

You know let's call things like EC, SF and such social content. Meaning content that you can solo but can also group up for, but isn't necessarily challenging as a group.

 

Because I think BW is trying to make more of this social content and trying to sell it as group content. Apples and pears are both fruit yes, but they're not the same if you get my meaning.

[Rion_Starkiller]

holy circle jerk batman

[Tsetso]

 

You know let's call things like EC, SF and such social content. Meaning content that you can solo but can also group up for, but isn't necessarily challenging as a group.

 

Because I think BW is trying to make more of this social content and trying to sell it as group content. Apples and pears are both fruit yes, but they're not the same if you get my meaning.

 

No. Content like SF, EC and TFPs is everything but social if pugged. Most times the only interaction you have with the other players is the "hello" and "tx for group, bb" if even that.

[Tsillah]

No. Content like SF, EC and TFPs is everything but social if pugged. Most times the only interaction you have with the other players is the "hello" and "tx for group, bb" if even that.

 

Well, I just call it social because it's not about challenge in any shape or form but that you just happen to have the option to do this together with someone else....so what would you call it?

[Tsetso]

Well, I just call it social because it's not about challenge in any shape or form but that you just happen to have the option to do this together with someone else....so what would you call it?

 

That's a hard question. Maybe semigroup

[IanArgent]

Well, I just call it social because it's not about challenge in any shape or form but that you just happen to have the option to do this together with someone else....so what would you call it?

 

I'd call it social content. Admittedly, I'd also call group content a subset of soical content (so defined); all group content is social content, but not all social content is group content. If you can group for it, it's social. If you ought to group for it, it's group.

[Tsillah]

I'd call it social content. Admittedly, I'd also call group content a subset of soical content (so defined); all group content is social content, but not all social content is group content. If you can group for it, it's social. If you ought to group for it, it's group.

 

I know what you mean, but considering what BW are doing recently and what people here are asking, the difference between the two has become rather relevant. No matter what name you give it. To me it's about that difference, regardless of what anyone wants to call it.

 

In the end I just wish they were clear about where they were going with this game and not hide behind a wall of silence or semantics. In the end they know very well that something like SF is not equal to Operations and normal Flash Points. If they would just say, listen, we're not doing that anymore and we're going in a new direction and that's our plan then I would know I don't have to waste my and your time here anymore and I can seriously look for another game to replace this one.

 

In the end all I want is for them to give their vision to the game so I can decide what to do. I could just say screw it now, but I've played this game for almost 5 years and I want to give it a fair chance before saying goodbye to it entirely. Currently the game isn't good enough for me anymore so I unsubbed and for the rest it's just silence from them. I'd prefer to come back to the game but it's just beyond annoying that they've not really made any clear statements about how they view group content or however you want to call it in SWTOR looking ahead. It just feels sneaky that they don't just tell us where they are going with the game. With 4.0 we saw big changes but it's not clear what that meant for the future and now a year later we still don't really know.

 

I think that's really just not cool. They are pushing the information flow to the last possible moment and that just feels like they know they're gonna lose a bunch of people again with 5.0 but just want to keep us subbed till the last possible moment before people like myself leave. Maybe that's not true, but that's how it feels. Do they even have a vision for where they're going? Who knows? That's just what makes discussions about content so frustrating at the moment.

[GrandLordMenace]

Good group content, like Operations, creates a social atmosphere because in order to DO IT, you HAVE to be social to a degree. You get in voice, you might not talk, but you get to know the people you're raiding with. You simply just will by virtue of doing the content, the difficulty is at the point where synergy is required.

 

Eternal Championship isn't social content because it's easily doable. It's so easy that even if you do it with another person, you wouldn't have to talk to each other, by chat or otherwise, you might as well be alone with a companion that doesn't necessarily take directions.

 

Bioware needs to make content that rewards you accordingly for grouping. I'm fine with solo content, but there needs to be a REASON to group, a "carrot" to group for, in future content, that's meaningful. I don't mean like a "gear" carrot, but an enjoyable experience that you get from grouping up.

 

You might say, "If you want to be social, just hang out ingame! You don't need group content to be social!"

 

You're correct! Bioware doesn't need to make content for groups, people can just group on their own! Except the flip side is that there's then nothing specifically tying down a player to TOR! They can group up and play any other MMORPG that rewards grouping, and that therein is the issue: There's nothing tying any player down in TOR if they are interested in social / group content, nothing. There's no real enjoyable reward to grouping to do something, at least for new content. Almost everything now can be done solo, and you'll probably have more fun doing the chapters alone than with a friend, and therein lies the problem: There's no reason to group.

 

Infact, what's even worse is that it actively hurts you to group for a lot of the game. You can't progress your story in KOTFE by helping a friend, it's buggy, etc. I miss the days when running a new flashpoint was an experience you did with other people, where everyone felt like they were participating, etc. The multiplayer conversation system in TOR is MAGICAL, why can't we feel that again?

Edited September 22, 2016 by GrandLordMenace

[IanArgent]

I know what you mean, but considering what BW are doing recently and what people here are asking, the difference between the two has become rather relevant. No matter what name you give it. To me it's about that difference, regardless of what anyone wants to call it.

 

In the end I just wish they were clear about where they were going with this game and not hide behind a wall of silence or semantics. In the end they know very well that something like SF is not equal to Operations and normal Flash Points. If they would just say, listen, we're not doing that anymore and we're going in a new direction and that's our plan then I would know I don't have to waste my and your time here anymore and I can seriously look for another game to replace this one.

 

In the end all I want is for them to give their vision to the game so I can decide what to do. I could just say screw it now, but I've played this game for almost 5 years and I want to give it a fair chance before saying goodbye to it entirely. Currently the game isn't good enough for me anymore so I unsubbed and for the rest it's just silence from them. I'd prefer to come back to the game but it's just beyond annoying that they've not really made any clear statements about how they view group content or however you want to call it in SWTOR looking ahead. It just feels sneaky that they don't just tell us where they are going with the game. With 4.0 we saw big changes but it's not clear what that meant for the future and now a year later we still don't really know.

 

I think that's really just not cool. They are pushing the information flow to the last possible moment and that just feels like they know they're gonna lose a bunch of people again with 5.0 but just want to keep us subbed till the last possible moment before people like myself leave. Maybe that's not true, but that's how it feels. Do they even have a vision for where they're going? Who knows? That's just what makes discussions about content so frustrating at the moment.

 

I think BW needs to (I'd even go so far as say "must") produce not only new group content, but new "large" group content, in the 5.x cycle; where "large" means "needs 6+ people to complete." I don't think it needs to be (or will be) classic trinity-required, unbroken mulit-hour-commitment, formatted (at least not requiring trinity at the "story mode" level, the way tactical flashpoints don't require trinity (but you benefot from havingit), but hard mode does; nor that it ought to be "harder" than Rav/ToS; IE, it's not going to be Ops to progress to after "beating" Rav/ToS.

[Tsillah]

I think BW needs to (I'd even go so far as say "must") produce not only new group content, but new "large" group content, in the 5.x cycle; where "large" means "needs 6+ people to complete." I don't think it needs to be (or will be) classic trinity-required, unbroken mulit-hour-commitment, formatted (at least not requiring trinity at the "story mode" level, the way tactical flashpoints don't require trinity (but you benefot from havingit), but hard mode does; nor that it ought to be "harder" than Rav/ToS; IE, it's not going to be Ops to progress to after "beating" Rav/ToS.

 

Well, I would agree and it doesn't have to be the same as operations either, but I really hope they are going to bring some major things out that are actually exciting and fun to do. If they completely bypass the trinity in it though then the place of healers and particularly tanks will disappear. Why play a tank if you can dps? And why have a tank in your group if all he does is slow down your dps?

 

These are the things I do worry about. I play GW2 in a casual way at the moment but the lack of trinity and therefore healing, which I enjoy the most, makes it that I will not make that a main game. If SWTOR brings out group content that ignores the trinity, then the roles will become pointless and I do not know if that's a good thing. It certainly wouldn't be for me.

[Tsetso]

Well, I would agree and it doesn't have to be the same as operations either, but I really hope they are going to bring some major things out that are actually exciting and fun to do. If they completely bypass the trinity in it though then the place of healers and particularly tanks will disappear. Why play a tank if you can dps? And why have a tank in your group if all he does is slow down your dps?

 

These are the things I do worry about. I play GW2 in a casual way at the moment but the lack of trinity and therefore healing, which I enjoy the most, makes it that I will not make that a main game. If SWTOR brings out group content that ignores the trinity, then the roles will become pointless and I do not know if that's a good thing. It certainly wouldn't be for me.

 

Don't even get me started on GW2 dungeons. That was the most unenjoyable aspect of the game for me. And it seems they are starting to make raids too.

[IanArgent]

Well, I would agree and it doesn't have to be the same as operations either, but I really hope they are going to bring some major things out that are actually exciting and fun to do. If they completely bypass the trinity in it though then the place of healers and particularly tanks will disappear. Why play a tank if you can dps? And why have a tank in your group if all he does is slow down your dps?

 

These are the things I do worry about. I play GW2 in a casual way at the moment but the lack of trinity and therefore healing, which I enjoy the most, makes it that I will not make that a main game. If SWTOR brings out group content that ignores the trinity, then the roles will become pointless and I do not know if that's a good thing. It certainly wouldn't be for me.

 

I don't recall if this was said explicitly, but the conversion of story-mode flashpoints to Tactical had to have been a reaction to the imbalance of population from the 1:1:2 Tank : healer : DPS "ideal." And the answer to "well, you should go roll a tank/healer if you want quick pops" is an unacceptable one to me, as a casual group-content player dabbling in the casual-level group content. And the "story-mode" group content should be accessible to the drop-in casual player, so that they can find out how much gorram fun it is.

 

None of the other entry-level "group content" that you can queue for since 4.0 requires trinity. This causes GF to work for a "casual player." If you want "large-group" content to thrive, it needs to be accessible to the casual player, for whom SWTOR is their first MMORPG. That means role-agnosticism, so they can play whatever character their main-and-only is, and enjoy the experience enough to come back.

 

Now, that doesn't mean having an all DPS squad should be easy by any means - you should be rewarded for having a spread of roles in your group. I've suggested in the past that whatever comes next have ways for characters to "cover" the tank and/or healer roles; if less effectively than a "proper" tank or healer. Kolto tanks are one approach for the healing, though I think their introduction of "temporary abilities" would work better.

Edited September 22, 2016 by IanArgent

[ikinai]

That's a hard question. Maybe semigroup

 

I prefer semifreddo, as it's generally not as hard as full on ice cream can be.

[IanArgent]

I prefer semifreddo, as it's generally not as hard as full on ice cream can be.

 

I never would have figured you for a soft-serve girl.