Game has died, Nowhere to go

[robertthebard]

I've never said the game was doomed nor have I claimed to know what everyone else is doing. I'm simply stating that according to the stats we do have (torstatus) and my own observations, the population is most assuredly in a decline.

 

Like it or not, Fleet is the main hub of SWTOR. Maybe not for YOU, but it is...it always has been. I've played since beta and I assure you, Fleet has ALWAYS represented the health of the game. 100% without fail. I'm not basing this on one nights assessment, it's based on 4+ years of playing.

 

I wish my observations were different...but they aren't.

 

...and yet, as I pointed out in a previous post, people actually being out in the world playing the game tells a different story, especially when they're out in places where the heroics, as my example listed, aren't the starter planets specifically, although I did go to DK for one. I also only listed people that I could physically see, instead of planetary populations and number of instances. So despite the "The fleet is the center of the swtor universe" that you want to hold on to so desperately, it's really not, and it hasn't been for longer than you'd care to admit, of course, since you refuse to admit that players may have moved on from what others have called Barrens Chat central, a WoW reference I believe, but I have no context for that, since I have never played WoW.

[peter_plankskull]

...and yet, as I pointed out in a previous post, people actually being out in the world playing the game tells a different story, especially when they're out in places where the heroics, as my example listed, aren't the starter planets specifically, although I did go to DK for one. I also only listed people that I could physically see, instead of planetary populations and number of instances. So despite the "The fleet is the center of the swtor universe" that you want to hold on to so desperately, it's really not, and it hasn't been for longer than you'd care to admit, of course, since you refuse to admit that players may have moved on from what others have called Barrens Chat central, a WoW reference I believe, but I have no context for that, since I have never played WoW.

 

Can... can't we just all agree that the fleet is useful for telling the population, but acknowledge that not everyone goes there and avoid it like the plague, however people still play in the open world and have more incentive to do so now?

[robertthebard]

Can... can't we just all agree that the fleet is useful for telling the population, but acknowledge that not everyone goes there and avoid it like the plague, however people still play in the open world and have more incentive to do so now?

 

How is something that's barely used now an accurate measure of what's going on in the game in general. You explain this and I'll gladly move on. If I was the only one saying "I never go there", I'd drop it, but I'm not. All the times that I've asked for that explanation, the answer was "because I said so". So no, I'm not taking that at face value.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

I've never said the game was doomed nor have I claimed to know what everyone else is doing. I'm simply stating that according to the stats we do have (torstatus) and my own observations, the population is most assuredly in a decline.

 

Like it or not, Fleet is the main hub of SWTOR. Maybe not for YOU, but it is...it always has been. I've played since beta and I assure you, Fleet has ALWAYS represented the health of the game. 100% without fail. I'm not basing this on one nights assessment, it's based on 4+ years of playing.

 

I wish my observations were different...but they aren't.

 

Whilst it's anecdotal evidence those are some of the best anecdotal evidence we have available to judge population and I tend to agree with your observations.

[MadCuzBad]

Whilst it's anecdotal evidence those are some of the best anecdotal evidence we have available to judge population and I tend to agree with your observations.

 

Don't care about population. If the que times get long and there is nowhere to transfer to or no server mergers, I'm done. Im pretty sure population is on a steady decline, but even if its not I don't care. Que times die, I'm out of here.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Don't care about population. If the que times get long and there is nowhere to transfer to or no server mergers, I'm done. Im pretty sure population is on a steady decline, but even if its not I don't care. Que times die, I'm out of here.

 

Pretty sure I'm agreeing with that part of a declining population yet I still feel it's much better than this time last year.

[MadCuzBad]

Pretty sure I'm agreeing with that part of a declining population yet I still feel it's much better than this time last year.

 

Last year this time Harbringer was heavy at peak times. Now it hits standard quickly during peak and then goes back to light for the rest of the time.

 

No its not even close to last years numbers.

[MadCuzBad]

For the first time in the history of SWTOR there is no place left to run to. If Harbringer dies off (and it has been in steady decline for the past 30 days) there is no other place to run for refuge to escape the steady decline of playable servers.

 

I have noticed a pretty big difference in the past 30 days in que times on Harbringer PVP. I have PVPed daily on this server for 2 years now. This is the slowest I have ever seen it since I moved here from the ghost town called POT5.

 

I have been thru 3 server mergers and moved all my toons to Harbringer back when it used to cost 1800 CC per toon. I know what a server feels like when it starts its decent into slow que pops and low population. Harbringer has reached its decent. It is not dead or a ghost town, but it is un deniable that it has started its decent.

 

Problem for me is that I have nowhere to run to escape these slow que times that have plagued this game since launch. And I am not bashing this game. I would not play it if I didn't enjoy it. I do enjoy it, but I PVP 24/7 so if the que times drop off like they have on several other servers I have played on I am out of here. That will be the end of the rope for me.

 

I believe Shadowlands in the second most populated server and the que times there are not even remotely close to anything I will tolerate. I have 2 fully geared PVP toons there and the que pops for me are horrible and I wont play a game like that. The only time you can play decently is only during peak times. And I don't play this game ONLY at peak times.

 

I have been happy with Harbringers que times for 2 years now, but I can see and feel the recent change. And it is getting towards that point where I don't like. And sitting and waiting for que pops for any longer than 10 minutes and I'm gone. I absolutely will not play this or any game that I have to wait 10 minutes to PVP. No way.

[peter_plankskull]

Another one now? Edited March 15, 2016 by peter_plankskull

[Max_Killjoy]

Sorry about your queue issues, OP. Probably didn't need another dudebromadthread.

 

Meanwhile, my server is absolutely playable.

[MadCuzBad]

Anther one now?

 

Yeah, the last one got wayyyyyyy off topic.

[RangerPCW]

Wait for 4.3. They will do megaservers (server merge): 2-3 for US (West and East), 3 for EU (Eng, German and French).

[Inspirator]

As I was reading, I was wondering if you were talking something like hour long queues. Then I got to the end and saw it was only 10 minutes...LOL

 

wtfc

[TUXs]

It scares me too. I like this game, but this is NOT a good sign...I've noticed the decline as well. It's not just PvP either...less Ops being run and some nights I can't even get a tactical FP to pop...

[OranoQuanteras]

~snippy~

I believe Shadowlands in the second most populated server and the que times there are not even remotely close to anything I will tolerate.

I play on SL...and I have no issues with queue times, and I play at various times depending on weekday evening or weekend.

OFC...

.....bunch of stuffs about PvP....

may actually be the reason for your dilemma. The Shadowlands has NEVER been a PvP server, even though some have attempted to make it one. #sorrynotsorry

Edited March 15, 2016 by OranoQuanteras

[TUXs]

I play on SL...and I have no issues with queue times, and I play at various times depending on weekday evening or weekend. So not sure where you are seeing this.

You should read his post again - he clearly stated where he sees this.

[AlienEyeTX]

For the first time in the history of SWTOR there is no place left to run to. If Harbringer dies off (and it has been in steady decline for the past 30 days) there is no other place to run for refuge to escape the steady decline of playable servers.

 

I have noticed a pretty big difference in the past 30 days in que times on Harbringer PVP. I have PVPed daily on this server for 2 years now. This is the slowest I have ever seen it since I moved here from the ghost town called POT5.

 

I have been thru 3 server mergers and moved all my toons to Harbringer back when it used to cost 1800 CC per toon. I know what a server feels like when it starts its decent into slow que pops and low population. Harbringer has reached its decent. It is not dead or a ghost town, but it is un deniable that it has started its decent.

 

Problem for me is that I have nowhere to run to escape these slow que times that have plagued this game since launch. And I am not bashing this game. I would not play it if I didn't enjoy it. I do enjoy it, but I PVP 24/7 so if the que times drop off like they have on several other servers I have played on I am out of here. That will be the end of the rope for me.

 

I believe Shadowlands in the second most populated server and the que times there are not even remotely close to anything I will tolerate. I have 2 fully geared PVP toons there and the que pops for me are horrible and I wont play a game like that. The only time you can play decently is only during peak times. And I don't play this game ONLY at peak times.

 

I have been happy with Harbringers que times for 2 years now, but I can see and feel the recent change. And it is getting towards that point where I don't like. And sitting and waiting for que pops for any longer than 10 minutes and I'm gone. I absolutely will not play this or any game that I have to wait 10 minutes to PVP. No way.

 

Queue usually pops almost instantly for me. Sometimes I have to wait like 2 minutes. It was always rare, but still been a long time since I had to wait anything like 10 minutes.

 

So... maybe you just play at a down time? I didn't think Harby really had a downtime, though.

[TUXs]

Queue usually pops almost instantly for me. Sometimes I have to wait like 2 minutes. It was always rare, but still been a long time since I had to wait anything like 10 minutes.

 

So... maybe you just play at a down time? I didn't think Harby really had a downtime, though.

Harby never really did, but it's getting them lately. That's what has some of us concerned.

[Alssaran]

You should read his post again - he clearly stated where he sees this.

 

She directly quoted what part of his post she was answering. The OP was assuming that he knows the queue times on a server. Someone who is actually playing on that server answered, and then told him that she cannot support his subjective perception of long queue times on the server in question.

 

The same way people from Harbinger have posted in his last thread, stating that they do not see too long queue times, and that 6-8 minutes of queue do hardly mean "queue is declining/dead!"

 

The OP is simply trying too hard at this point.

[OranoQuanteras]

You should read his post again - he clearly stated where he sees this.

I did read it, that's why I added the 2nd part about PvP. Forgot to edit out that sentence. Fixed...good catch, thank you.

[OranoQuanteras]

She directly quoted what part of his post she was answering. The OP was assuming that he knows the queue times on a server. Someone who is actually playing on that server answered, and then told him that she cannot support his subjective perception of long queue times on the server in question.

 

The same way people from Harbinger have posted in his last thread, stating that they do not see too long queue times, and that 6-8 minutes of queue do hardly mean "queue is declining/dead!"

 

The OP is simply trying too hard at this point.

No worries, TUX was right that last sentence made my post seem like I didn't actually read the OP. I corrected it, but thank you.

[Alssaran]

Last year this time Harbringer was heavy at peak times. Now it hits standard quickly during peak and then goes back to light for the rest of the time.

 

And seeing that they increased the server capacities with the launch of KotFE, you have absolutely no numbers to support that the decline is as drastic as an old "Heavy" to new "Light" might suggest.

 

Do you have any data on what kind of server they used before, and to what kind of server technology they upgraded? Without any number about the previous capacity vs. the new actual capacity, we cannot say anything, or even relate this issue.

 

The indicator is about how much capacity of the server is used at any given time in percent, not about counting any single player and changing status when the next player joins. If the old server technology was rather outdated and old, with a capacity of ~25,000, it might reach the "Heavy" indicator by using 75% of it's capacity. That would be somewhere around ~20k. If they upgraded to a server with 50k capacity and still retain 18-20k active players on said server, then the capacity in percent is less than 50%. It's at 40%. That means the same server would only show "Light" or "Medium".

 

I do not deny that some people have left the game, and I do not deny that the game is moving to a peak time thing. The servers are full for a few days a month, then they become less crowded again. But this server argument, at least from an IT point of view, has to be backed up ever since it was first made when 4.0 was out for a month.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Alssaran

[xordevoreaux]

My mains are on Shadowlands and we're fine over there. Two guilds, Imp and Pub, anywhere from 5 to 15 people on after 3pm EST (it's an east coast server), and we're not collectively feeling like the game is draining away to nothing. We're on our voice chat, asking each other to hey want to do some heroics or search out datacrons or whatever, and we're fine.

 

Oh. Wait. We're all PVE types. Decorating my strongholds is an aspect of the game. I like doing it.

 

And running through the countryside and enjoying the scenery on Alderaan, just going through the world. Anyone remember doing that? Just enjoying the worlds for what they were, a diversion, an escape? Time was, back in 1999 when EQ came out, it was fun just to walk around and see things, even with the crappy cardboard cut-out graphics.

 

Oh! And then of course people asking in guild chat to do things, and we do.

 

And oh yeah, and for more content choices, one of our members is having a grand old time now getting his faction up on various planets so he can buy the armor/schematics on them. He's motivating me to do some of that, too. My faction's only legendary on three planets. I'm such a slacker in that regard.

 

And crafting is fun, I like getting my six crafters up, getting artifact recipes. I'll drop a few color crystals on the GTN every now and then for 35-50K each depending on the day. Prices do fluctuate, after all.

 

Stopping what I'm doing because a newbie needs help getting through a quest, or answering questions about how the game works is enjoyable too, sharing is fun, and it's rewarding to know I'm helping increase someone else's enjoyment in the game by showing them more content.

 

Star fortresses. Hard mode ops. Flashpoints. Story lines. Side quests. Unlocking crates and putting ridiculous-looking outfits on my companions (what's the deal with the red helmet with the wings? Perfect for Aric!).

 

So much to do! So many different aspects of the game to enjoy, and enjoy with others, without PVP. Fascinating concept, isn't it?

 

Game dead?

No.

 

Game dead in six months?

No.

 

Anyone twisting your arm behind your back to play?

No.

[Max_Killjoy]

And seeing that they increased the server capacities with the launch of KotFE, you have absolutely no numbers to support that the decline is as drastic as an old "Heavy" to new "Light" might suggest.

 

Do you have any data on what kind of server they used before, and to what kind of server technology they upgraded? Without any number about the previous capacity vs. the new actual capacity, we cannot say anything, or even relate this issue.

 

The indicator is about how much capacity of the server is used at any given time in percent, not about counting any single player and changing status when the next player joins. If the old server technology was rather outdated and old, with a capacity of ~25,000, it might reach the "Heavy" indicator by using 75% of it's capacity. That would be somewhere around ~20k. If they upgraded to a server with 50k capacity and still retain 18-20k active players on said server, then the capacity in percent is less than 50%. It's at 40%. That means the same server would only show "Light" or "Medium".

 

I do not deny that some people have left the game, and I do not deny that the game is moving to a peak time thing. The servers are full for a few days a month, then they become less crowded again. But this server argument, at least from an IT point of view, has to be backed up ever since it was first made when 4.0 was out for a month.

 

On the flip side, the defenders of KotFE and 4.0 were pointing to the heavy server loads in the months right after KotFE came out as "proof" of how the game was "saved".

[Alssaran]

On the flip side, the defenders of KotFE and 4.0 were pointing to the heavy server loads in the months right after KotFE came out as "proof" of how the game was "saved".

 

Seeing that I am not defending the expansion in any way, but rather debunk the argument that is still floating around as a half-truth saying, I have no issue with that. And I was not the one claiming that.

 

The heavy status of two-three servers during the expansion release was a mix of Star Wars hype, a new shiny expansion, and a fancy CGI trailer. That growth was never any indication of a long-lasting subscriber increase, and I believe that this is the way forward. We will see another spike in August-September when the summer draws to an end and the whole story with all the new features is out (EC, alerts, and the new warzone), as well as when the hype for a new SW movie is strongest early 2017.

 

What I am saying is this: We cannot clearly state that the population on the main servers has heavily declined since early January just by the server capacity. It might be roughly the same amount of long-term veterans playing the game, but they do not task the new server as much as they did the old one.

 

I don't believe that we saw an increase in long-term subscription as compared to 2-3 months in a year subscribers, but the argument that we reach Standard instead of Heavy to be an indication of impending doom is not true.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Alssaran