Game has died, Nowhere to go

[MuskyBoy]

To paraphrase Ivan Drago,

If it dies it dies.

[Slowpokeking]

I love the story sure. But I just think the game can't just rely on it, you can only play it for once per character and there is no achievement/replay value. It should have new content keep coming out rather than rely on the mega old contents.

 

The problem actually happened since 3.0. the whole 3.0 cycle was so bad because lack of content. Tons of stuff that should be fixed was left there untouched. I agree with one of the posters in this thread. 2.0 was the healthiest cycle by far.

[Slowpokeking]

It's on a very tricky road now. People are getting tired of themed park MMO because it's too time consuming to build up characters and do group content. SWTOR is trying with a new road but it's still not attracting most of the players to stick with it.

[Andryah]

It's on a very tricky road now. People are getting tired of themed park MMO because it's too time consuming to build up characters and do group content. SWTOR is trying with a new road but it's still not attracting most of the players to stick with it.

 

Personally, I think they have realized that MMO players have become largely nomadic and hop from game to game, no matter what a studio does.

 

Their current efforts, IMO, are designed to address this... and leverage the transient nature of the broader player base. It's a gamble with the MMO crowd.... but it may in the end payoff well for the studio, even though it upends the classic aspect of MMOs (ie: persistent dedication by players to stick with a game no matter what).

[Slowpokeking]

Personally, I think they have realized that MMO players have become largely nomadic and hop from game to game, no matter what a studio does.

 

Their current efforts, IMO, are designed to address this... and leverage the transient nature of the broader player base. It's a gamble with the MMO crowd.... but it may in the end payoff well for the studio, even though it upends the classic aspect of MMOs (ie: persistent dedication by players to stick with a game no matter what).

 

I would still prefer to have new contents beside the story. Also make the old content a bit easier when the new ones come out.

[MadCuzBad]

To paraphrase Ivan Drago,

If it dies it dies.

 

Yeah, but it did not have to if built correctly

[MadCuzBad]

Yeah, but it did not have to if built correctly

 

As in server to server ques

[ShieldProtection]

Its excuses, coz Division, coz WOW new expansion, coz B&S, coz BDO, coz TESO new expansion, coz GW2 release and so on, so on.

 

GW2 release? People still playing that grind fest? Guild Wars 2 is heavily focuses on pvp, as developer keep nerfing possible income sources (no exploit, there was "trains" that allows people get some nice coins by killing bosses in dungeons/caves) as a result, most people playing that MMO only for pvp. Basically they forcing users to buy Gems or play pvp instead.

 

Thats why I love SWTOR, yes pvp can be pain in the neck however at least we have a good storyline to play.

And no grind at all.

Edited March 12, 2016 by ShieldProtection

[MadCuzBad]

GW2 release? People still playing that grind fest? Guild Wars 2 is heavily focuses on pvp, as developer keep nerfing possible income sources (no exploit, there was "trains" that allows people get some nice coins by killing bosses in dungeons/caves) as a result, most people playing that MMO only for pvp. Basically they forcing users to buy Gems or play pvp instead.

 

Thats why I love SWTOR, yes pvp can be pain in the neck however at least we have a good storyline to play.

And no grind at all.

 

I don't play GW2. Tried it and didn't like it. But truth is that like it or not it is always ranked at the very top of the MMORPG list. Always.

 

Whether or not you or I play it doesn't change a thing. Just like whether you or I play this game makes no difference. This game is in serious trouble whether you or I play it or not. And server to server ques would have stitched up that gushing wound that has hemorrhaged off a massive amount of players. And I speak from personal experience of gameplay of this game since launch.

[robertthebard]

Explain. I would love to hear this one.

 

Allow me to tackle this:

 

The nature of MMO players in general is that we're nomadic. What this means in our context is that we tend to hop from game to game, usually at or around new content releases. This isn't something new or unheard of, and it's not limited to MMOs, but can be observed in online games as well. I know from running, or being in the inner circle of NWN servers that this was happening way back then, especially on servers that had their own forums.

 

Another "problem" we have is burn out brought on by playing the same things over and over. I know that this, more than anything else, is what pushes me out from game to game, and even to actual SP games like Inquisition from time to time. Another thing that has a nasty habit of interfering with people's gaming is having a life, which sometimes demands that our attention be focused elsewhere, instead of on making sure that some random guy in an MMO can get into a queue whenever he thinks he should be able to.

 

What's ironic is that all of these, or none of these may apply to what you're experiencing with the game. I know I don't have this issue, I don't use GF, I did GSF for the first few days of early access and never looked back, and I have never set foot in a WZ. Playing on Shadowlands, my guild's second in command never seems to have a problem with inordinately long queue times, and he'd be complaining if he did. I remember an incident with a HM FP queue we had a long while back, where we both hit the queue as DPS, and 45 minutes later, we swapped toons and hit as a tank and heals, and the queue popped almost literally immediately.

 

So there are a lot of factors at work, including PvP not being all that in this game, no matter how much people try to convince us otherwise. If it were truly as popular as the PvP crowd would have us believe, they'd have busier servers. Another possibility may be that the actual PvP players have indeed moved on to games with "actual" PvP. I know when I get the itch to PvP, I play Aion. I rolled Asmodian on Elyos dominated servers, I don't have any problems finding it when I go looking.

[Theeko]

Everyones playing The Division right now, its actually rather insane just how many people I know that are seriously hooked on that game...

 

They could also be playing Black desert as well

[Slowpokeking]

I don't play GW2. Tried it and didn't like it. But truth is that like it or not it is always ranked at the very top of the MMORPG list. Always.

 

Whether or not you or I play it doesn't change a thing. Just like whether you or I play this game makes no difference. This game is in serious trouble whether you or I play it or not. And server to server ques would have stitched up that gushing wound that has hemorrhaged off a massive amount of players. And I speak from personal experience of gameplay of this game since launch.

 

So what is the solution? Should this game go back to traditional MMO track or improve the story route?

[Max_Killjoy]

They could also be playing Black desert as well

 

You mean Shaky Cam, the MMO?

[ShadessaWayland]

most mmorpg cant do it anymore

 

colin left arenanet after 11 years pll are not all that happy with the HOT update

 

everquest next is no more

 

wild star lost 40 pll ad the companie

 

blade and soul have very big problems with botters and spammers also the lagg way to much

 

WOW lost more and more players

 

but i stile dunno what to think of the mmorpg market today but as for now its in bad shape

[Celise]

i was around during early access of this game, i will be around up to when the servers have gone out.

 

sure things are not looking grand, but i can still see swtor making a big comeback.

[Slowpokeking]

most mmorpg cant do it anymore

 

colin left arenanet after 11 years pll are not all that happy with the HOT update

 

Anet made a huge mistake in HoT, GW2 is mostly a casual player game, but they tried to make the new content way too challenging to force ppl to either group or pay a lot of attention to most of the trash mobs. And now they are focusing their effort on raids.

[ThnderHorse]

So what is the solution? Should this game go back to traditional MMO track or improve the story route?

The game feels more dead after KOTFE...

[Slowpokeking]

The game feels more dead after KOTFE...

 

To be fair, it's much better than the 3.0 Cycle. The lack of new content between 3.0-4.0 was what really brought this game down. KotFE just wasn't good enough to bring people back.

[Andryah]

Allow me to tackle this:

 

The nature of MMO players in general is that we're nomadic. What this means in our context is that we tend to hop from game to game, usually at or around new content releases. This isn't something new or unheard of, and it's not limited to MMOs, but can be observed in online games as well. I know from running, or being in the inner circle of NWN servers that this was happening way back then, especially on servers that had their own forums.

 

Another "problem" we have is burn out brought on by playing the same things over and over. I know that this, more than anything else, is what pushes me out from game to game, and even to actual SP games like Inquisition from time to time. Another thing that has a nasty habit of interfering with people's gaming is having a life, which sometimes demands that our attention be focused elsewhere, instead of on making sure that some random guy in an MMO can get into a queue whenever he thinks he should be able to.

 

What's ironic is that all of these, or none of these may apply to what you're experiencing with the game. I know I don't have this issue, I don't use GF, I did GSF for the first few days of early access and never looked back, and I have never set foot in a WZ. Playing on Shadowlands, my guild's second in command never seems to have a problem with inordinately long queue times, and he'd be complaining if he did. I remember an incident with a HM FP queue we had a long while back, where we both hit the queue as DPS, and 45 minutes later, we swapped toons and hit as a tank and heals, and the queue popped almost literally immediately.

 

So there are a lot of factors at work, including PvP not being all that in this game, no matter how much people try to convince us otherwise. If it were truly as popular as the PvP crowd would have us believe, they'd have busier servers. Another possibility may be that the actual PvP players have indeed moved on to games with "actual" PvP. I know when I get the itch to PvP, I play Aion. I rolled Asmodian on Elyos dominated servers, I don't have any problems finding it when I go looking.

 

Outstanding thread post, and worthy of complete requote for emphasis.

 

Of course ingrained confirmation bias in some people will not permit them to read it objectively. No surprise though, this is a gaming forum.

Edited March 12, 2016 by Andryah

[Andryah]

The game feels more dead after KOTFE...

 

The thing about KotFE is that it has a lot of solo story content. And a lot players love it. Hence, less time spent looking for groups and actually grouping.

 

Just looking at historical activity levels on the US servers (can't comment on EU servers as I don't monitor them), we are right about where we usually are 6 months after an expac releases.

 

So.. the "dead" appearance is more situational, and affects people who like to group to play (PvE or PvP) much more then players who are not so heavily focused on group play.

 

Now.. as for the OPs premise... yeah.. well PvP is not ever going to be what some people want it to be in this MMO. There are better MMOs for serving avid PvPers IMO. Cross server queues will not solve this either.... no matter how much some players insist that it will.

Edited March 12, 2016 by Andryah

[Slowpokeking]

The thing about KotFE is that it has a lot of solo story content. And a lot players love it. Hence, less time spent looking for groups and actually grouping.

 

Just looking at historical activity levels on the US servers (can't comment on EU servers as I don't monitor them), we are right about where we usually are 6 months after an expac releases.

 

So.. the "dead" appearance is more situational, and affects people who like to group to play (PvE or PvP) much more then players who are not so heavily focused on group play.

 

Now.. as for the OPs premise... yeah.. well PvP is not ever going to be what some people want it to be in this MMO. There are better MMOs for serving avid PvPers IMO. Cross server queues will not solve this either.... no matter how much some players insist that it will.

 

They should make the story repeatable and give some achievement to do.

[Slowpokeking]

Why not make all the ops easy rather than brought the level up?

[MadCuzBad]

The game feels more dead after KOTFE...

 

It is more dead. Que pops have been getting worse and worse.

 

If and when Harbringer dies, its lights out for me. Harbringer is whats keeping this dead corpse alive for me at this point.

[Max_Killjoy]

Queue pops != dead.

 

Queue pops != not dead.

 

I know this is hard to swallow, but the number of people doing X in a game ( other than "X = paying money" or "X = logging in to do anything at all" ), is a purely subjective indicator.

 

The speed of your PvP or group finder queues is not an objective measure of the game's health.

 

The number of people you personally know, who share your personal taste in what they want from a game, who have stayed or quit, is not an objective measure of the game's health.

 

What you are doing here is claiming that an entire city's economy is in the dumps because no one shops at YOUR favorite store any more.

[MadCuzBad]

Queue pops != dead.

 

Queue pops != not dead.

 

I know this is hard to swallow, but the number of people doing X in a game ( other than "X = paying money" or "X = logging in to do anything at all" ), is a purely subjective indicator.

 

The speed of your PvP or group finder queues is not an objective measure of the game's health.

 

The number of people you personally know, who share your personal taste in what they want from a game, who have stayed or quit, is not an objective measure of the game's health.

 

What you are doing here is claiming that an entire city's economy is in the dumps because no one shops at YOUR favorite store any more.

 

If people have to wait for que pops, IE just about ever US server other than Harbs they leave. Nobody who PVPs or does PVE using que pops are gonna waste any time on POT5, Bastion, Jung, Ebon, etc etc etc. They have spoken and what they said is that they are not gonna wait. They either left those servers or just left the game entirely.

 

Harbringer is the end of the rope. We are on borrowed time and this could have been prevented by server to server que.

 

Like it or not, what I am saying is true is this type of game. They built an entire game with a que system and limited it to just the server that you are on. A HUGE mistake and now they are paying the price.