Game has died, Nowhere to go

[TUXs]

I thought the server load status would be pretty objective.

If it measured the heat produced by the server, that would be "objective"...but this statistic actually only changes based on population levels as set by Bioware. When XX number of people log in, it changes to reflect that numerical value. That's not at all objective - it measures exactly what we're discussing.

[DanNV]

If it measured the heat produced by the server, that would be "objective"...but this statistic actually only changes based on population levels as set by Bioware. When XX number of people log in, it changes to reflect that numerical value. That's not at all objective - it measures exactly what we're discussing.

 

To quote Google: Objective "not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts."

 

The server load info is objective. It is based purely on the number of people logged on at any given time. There is no feeling or opinion involved.

 

I have noticed the decline in all servers, most evenings most are low most of the time. Shadowlands and Harbinger are usually Standard. Neither has been Heavy in weeks. Give a look at Tor Status http://www.torstatus.net/the-harbinger/history/7d#!/the-harbinger/history/30d for the last 30 days on Harbinger. No peaks over standard. I don't consider that a good sign by any measurement I can think of other than being a designer of a competing product.

[TUXs]

To quote Google: Objective "not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts."

 

The server load info is objective. It is based purely on the number of people logged on at any given time. There is no feeling or opinion involved.

 

I have noticed the decline in all servers, most evenings most are low most of the time. Shadowlands and Harbinger are usually Standard. Neither has been Heavy in weeks. Give a look at Tor Status http://www.torstatus.net/the-harbinger/history/7d#!/the-harbinger/history/30d for the last 30 days on Harbinger. No peaks over standard. I don't consider that a good sign by any measurement I can think of other than being a designer of a competing product.

Thank you

[Max_Killjoy]

If the que times slow up and there is no other server to run to for quicker que times, I am out of here. Plain and simple and end of story.

 

That's your choice. It doesn't mean the game is dying, or that the game isn't dying. It means you can't get the queue times you want at the times you want on your on your server. That is all.

[Max_Killjoy]

To quote Google: Objective "not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts."

 

The server load info is objective. It is based purely on the number of people logged on at any given time. There is no feeling or opinion involved.

 

That's what I was thinking, at least.

[Andryah]

To quote Google: Objective "not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts."

 

The server load info is objective. It is based purely on the number of people logged on at any given time. There is no feeling or opinion involved.

 

I have noticed the decline in all servers, most evenings most are low most of the time. Shadowlands and Harbinger are usually Standard. Neither has been Heavy in weeks. Give a look at Tor Status http://www.torstatus.net/the-harbinger/history/7d#!/the-harbinger/history/30d for the last 30 days on Harbinger. No peaks over standard. I don't consider that a good sign by any measurement I can think of other than being a designer of a competing product.

 

I agree that torstatus is an objective measure, even though it lacks a lot of granularity and it lacks what some people want (an exact count of logged in characters).

 

I don't agree that the recent torstatus data shows the end of the world is coming, or that there are serious troubles on the non PvP servers. If you keep any kind of track of torstatus, population levels on the servers are right about where they were last August, before the lead up surge began ahead of and through the 4.0 release. The PvP servers are largely dead, and likely will stay that way as PvPers proved since early after launch that they will collectively decide where the most action is and will roll or transfer to wherever that is at the moment. This has been true since the mass consolidation to The Fatman back in the months after launch and before server consolidation to what we have today. The 90cc server transfer fee was frankly the best thing ever for PvPers as it allowed them freedom of choice where they wanted to play, without putting the hurt on their pocketbooks.

 

These peaks and valleys of population loading on torstatus is pretty normal for this game over time. We see a large ramp spike ahead of and for a few months after an expac drops. And when we are 4-6 months after an expac drops, we reach out typical low point in server loading. Again.. normal, not surprising to anyone who actually watches and logs trends on what is recorded on torstatus. [You can actually pick a view on torstatus where you can see, and slide a view window anywhere along the full timeline of the server farms and see the natural flow of peaks and valleys over time. You cannot do it by server, but you can do it across the server farm views.]

 

I don't really think the move to PvP and PvE instancing within all servers coming in the next patch is really going to change any of the ongoing angst from PvPers. It should alleviate complaints from PvE players who chase objectives on their server that are hidden behind open PvP areas... but frankly I always saw that complaint by some as weak sauce anyway.

 

And before someone does a "drive by" about moving to "megaservers" or cross server queues ...... megaservers or cross server may or may come in the future for this MMO. What I do know is that they WILL NOT stop the ongoing complaints from PvPers. No matter what is done for them.. no matter which MMO it is (even PvP centric MMOs) they ALWAYS come to the relevant gaming forum and complain about their own special agenda. And there are many agendas within the PvP player base, just like there is in the PvE player base.

 

Now.. the OP is all about PvP and he is complaining that queue times are increasing for PvP. 1) there can be several reasons for this, including him being on a lot of ignore lists for all we know. 2) Given there has been no updates to PvP for a long time in this actually PvE centric game... all I can say is.... DUH!. Maybe we see some short term pickup in PvP after the next patch since there will be a new WZ. Or.. maybe not. PvP players are notoriously fickle and complaint/demand oriented for the content that they crave. Which is fine, but when you do so in the context of an MMO where the core of the game always has been centered around PvE (not PvP)... this is to be expected. If a player is an avid or exclusive PvP player... they really need to find MMOs that are more PvP centered, or spread their PvP time across multiple MMOs so they can take advantage of the peaks in the player activity around PvP.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Andryah

[DanNV]

Now.. the OP is all about PvP and he is complaining that queue times are increasing for PvP. 1) there can be several reasons for this, including him being on a lot of ignore lists for all we know. 2) Given there has been no updates to PvP for a long time in this actually PvE centric game... all I can say is.... DUH!. Maybe we see some short term pickup in PvP after the next patch since there will be a new WZ. Or.. maybe not. PvP players are notoriously fickle and complaint/demand oriented for the content that they crave. Which is fine, but when you do so in the context of an MMO where the core of the game always has been centered around PvE (not PvP)... this is to be expected. If a player is an avid or exclusive PvP player... they really need to find MMOs that are more PvP centered, or spread their PvP time across multiple MMOs so they can take advantage of the peaks in the player activity around PvP.

 

1) Ignore lists don't affect PvP queues, just PVE GF queues.

 

2) Maybe. A lot of the PVP community is gone and I don't have a clue if they will come back for a new WZ and a new arena or not. Honestly, the cross faction in the new WZ is interesting, but all that will save those queues is cross-server or a major server merge.

 

My personal experience is more with the PVE queues on Shadowlands. They have gotten to be really slow unless you are a tank, then they go pretty quick. If you are a solo DPS, you may wait a LONG time. I have been in the queue for HM FPs and not gotten a queue to pop at all as a solo DPS even though I was on and playing for 3+ hours. Tacticals go better, but have slowed down. Ops just don't tend to happen at all unless you put a group together and then queue.

 

Two instances of fleet with a total of 140 people is way down from two with a total of 250+ which used to be normal.

 

So, does it say the game is dying, no. We don't have the data to look at to tell. Does it say the group content is in trouble, yes. Does it imply that BW made some serious errors in the last year when they decided to not provide new group content, I'd say yes. Can they recover if they get off the stick and get the group content out, maybe.

[Andryah]

Two instances of fleet with a total of 140 people is way down from two with a total of 250+ which used to be normal.

 

On this part, fleet population observations has ALWAYS been the most subjective of indicators about server activity. And as exemplified in earlier thread replies by others.... this is more so over time as players have more places they can camp (guild ships, personal ships, strongholds, Oddessen base, etc. etc.)

 

Point being, other then completely empty fleets coupled with nobody else anywhere in the server... fleet population is very subjective as a measure.

 

... does it say the game is dying, no. We don't have the data to look at to tell. Does it say the group content is in trouble, yes. Does it imply that BW made some serious errors in the last year when they decided to not provide new group content, I'd say yes. Can they recover if they get off the stick and get the group content out, maybe.

 

No disagreement, AND, no surprise. They drop an expac that focuses very hard on personal story play arcs and acheivements without brand new shinning group content... and guess what... people spend most of their time either doing group content within their guild or not doing much at all. PuGs suffer the worst in this, but honestly I little to no sympathy for people who only get their group content play by PuG via queues. It's NOT what MMOs are really about IMO, but I acknowledge that more then a decade of WoW feeding of players has moved a good segment of the player base to queue based PuGs.... and not for the betterment of the genre IMO.

 

Point being, queue pops are not a good indicator of game or server health... but they do indicate faltering health in group encounters. For some people, who only like group play in the end game, yeah.. the current direction is unfulfilling for them. Just like story was for story cravers for a very long time in this game when there were no new story arcs.

 

Any player, playing any MMO, who focuses almost exclusively on one facet of the total content offered is doomed to be disappointed. This is true for all MMOs, even WoW. Players who play a lot and play only particular niches of content need to diversify their play or play multiple MMOs as no MMO can ever meet everyones needs and wants.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Andryah

[TUXs]

Two instances of fleet with a total of 140 people is way down from two with a total of 250+ which used to be normal.

 

So, does it say the game is dying, no. We don't have the data to look at to tell. Does it say the group content is in trouble, yes. Does it imply that BW made some serious errors in the last year when they decided to not provide new group content, I'd say yes. Can they recover if they get off the stick and get the group content out, maybe.

 

Exactly how I feel Dan. The game may not be dying, but I think it's indisputable that it's faltering lately.

 

Despite what other people say, Fleet has been a good barometer of server health since launch. I've been here since beta and I've seen 2 merges and a dead server I had to transfer from - Fleet has always reflected what was happening.

[PainOfDemise]

Despite what other people say, Fleet has been a good barometer of server health since launch. I've been here since beta and I've seen 2 merges and a dead server I had to transfer from - Fleet has always reflected what was happening.

 

It used to always reflect, but now with the guild ships, Oddessen, and the fleet for viable options, I don't see people always being at the fleet anymore. I'm rarely at the fleet myself anymore. If I'm not questing, I'm hanging out at Odessen or the guild ship. I only ever go to the fleet when I absolutely need to.

[Warrgames]

It used to always reflect, but now with the guild ships, Oddessen, and the fleet for viable options, I don't see people always being at the fleet anymore. I'm rarely at the fleet myself anymore. If I'm not questing, I'm hanging out at Odessen or the guild ship. I only ever go to the fleet when I absolutely need to.

 

Been a month since I set feet on fleet.

[TUXs]

It used to always reflect, but now with the guild ships, Oddessen, and the fleet for viable options, I don't see people always being at the fleet anymore. I'm rarely at the fleet myself anymore. If I'm not questing, I'm hanging out at Odessen or the guild ship. I only ever go to the fleet when I absolutely need to.

 

Odessen has been out since October, guild ships/strongholds longer than that...Fleet still reflects a server health well.

[robertthebard]

Odessen has been out since October, guild ships/strongholds longer than that...Fleet still reflects a server health well.

 

I've asked several times, and been summarily ignored, but are you monitoring it 12 hours a day, for at least a week, or is this a "hey, I logged in, it must be prime time for the server, and there aren't 600 people on fleet" no matter what time of day, or what day it actually is. I seem to recall another guy that used to make this claim, a few years back, that posted a screenshot of only 3 people on fleet, without providing any information about how many instances there were. It doesn't matter how many times you state it, if you can't support it, it's meaningless.

[TUXs]

I've asked several times, and been summarily ignored, but are you monitoring it 12 hours a day, for at least a week, or is this a "hey, I logged in, it must be prime time for the server, and there aren't 600 people on fleet" no matter what time of day, or what day it actually is. I seem to recall another guy that used to make this claim, a few years back, that posted a screenshot of only 3 people on fleet, without providing any information about how many instances there were. It doesn't matter how many times you state it, if you can't support it, it's meaningless.

You can ask me a million times Bob - my observation doesn't change. I'm not claiming I know numbers, I just know there's a very obvious decline. Deny it if you like...log on an play 12 hours a day for at least a week if you want - you'll see what I see.

[robertthebard]

You can ask me a million times Bob - my observation doesn't change. I'm not claiming I know numbers, I just know there's a very obvious decline. Deny it if you like...log on an play 12 hours a day for at least a week if you want - you'll see what I see.

 

Yep. 15 people running the same heroic I am, which means there are 16 people there that aren't on fleet at all. Swapping to another planet results in 10 people waiting for the boss to spawn in the Temple for one of the DK heroics, meaning that there are 11 people there that aren't on fleet. I could go on, but I won't bore you with the 3 maps of Odessan, being on #3 with 45 people. So none of those people are on fleet. What's the message here? Your "metric" is failing to provide you any useable data. The only thing that your numbers prove is that there's few people on fleet. They don't provide you with any numbers as to who else is playing where, or hanging out where, or busily doing heroics where. Just how many people are on fleet.

[TX_Angel]

Yep. 15 people running the same heroic I am, which means there are 16 people there that aren't on fleet at all.

 

And why exactly are you playing a MMO to run solo heroics?

 

Are those people doing anything with anyone else?

 

If one billion people were playing this game, all solo, would that make it a better game to you?

[TUXs]

Yep. 15 people running the same heroic I am, which means there are 16 people there that aren't on fleet at all. Swapping to another planet results in 10 people waiting for the boss to spawn in the Temple for one of the DK heroics, meaning that there are 11 people there that aren't on fleet. I could go on, but I won't bore you with the 3 maps of Odessan, being on #3 with 45 people. So none of those people are on fleet. What's the message here? Your "metric" is failing to provide you any useable data. The only thing that your numbers prove is that there's few people on fleet. They don't provide you with any numbers as to who else is playing where, or hanging out where, or busily doing heroics where. Just how many people are on fleet.

Fine. You disagree. You're welcome to be wrong.

 

I know what I've seen and am experiencing. I don't need to justify it to you and you can pretend it's due to some odd coincidence that everyone just happens to be elsewhere...they aren't though. Fleet is a very good gauge of health and right now it's in a decline. It doesn't matter the time of day, my play time is very consistent and spans hours multiple times a week.

[robertthebard]

And why exactly are you playing a MMO to run solo heroics?

 

Are those people doing anything with anyone else?

 

If one billion people were playing this game, all solo, would that make it a better game to you?

 

Some of them were in groups, I was in a duo, so nice assumption? If 1 billion people were playing the game, then the population on fleet would, proportionately be higher, and so we wouldn't be having the debate about how irrelevant how many people on fleet is. But here, let's flip the script, since hyperbole seems to be more important than details:

 

Why exactly are you playing an MMO to stand on the fleet?

 

Are you doing anything with anyone else?

 

If 1 billion people were standing on fleet with you, would you then find the game to be a roaring success?

[peter_plankskull]

If 1 billion people were standing on fleet with you, would you then find the game to be a roaring success?

 

I realize you're trying to take a stab at the hyperbole and TUX here, but to be fair, that's roughly 1/7th of the Earths population, so yeah.. I... it kind of would. However if the Earths population was a few trillion people ....

[robertthebard]

Fine. You disagree. You're welcome to be wrong.

 

I know what I've seen and am experiencing. I don't need to justify it to you and you can pretend it's due to some odd coincidence that everyone just happens to be elsewhere...they aren't though. Fleet is a very good gauge of health and right now it's in a decline. It doesn't matter the time of day, my play time is very consistent and spans hours multiple times a week.

 

How exactly is it that you can say I'm wrong, with nothing to support it but "because I said so"?

 

It's not an "odd coincidence", it's called "playing the game", which sometimes requires that you not be standing on the fleet to be part of someone's "headcount". Contrary to days gone by, one can do a lot of the things they want to do, like Heroics, or FPs w/out having to camp out on Fleet for 5 hours to make sure they make that headcount. If I'm on DK with 3 instances, and there are 40 people in my instance, that's a lot of people either hanging out in their SHs or actually playing the game, that aren't on fleet. Thereby making the number of people on fleet at that point in time meaningless for overall game health or population considerations.

[robertthebard]

I realize you're trying to take a stab at the hyperbole and TUX here, but to be fair, that's roughly 1/7th of the Earths population, so yeah.. I... it kind of would. However if the Earths population was a few trillion people ....

 

I'm thinking with that many people nobody's doing anything but standing there going "Laaaaaaaggggggg". However, the figure wasn't my own, but from the post that I quoted, so it's hyperbolic, but the hyperbole doesn't actually belong to me.

[TX_Angel]

Some of them were in groups, I was in a duo, so nice assumption?

 

So the only group content being done is heroics?

 

HM FP/ SM OPs/ GSF/ WZ are not popping much. Everything else kinda doesn't matter from a MMO point of view.

 

Why exactly are you playing an MMO to stand on the fleet?

 

To form ops groups, since that is where they are formed and where the entrances to the ops are, which you have to walk into to do HM/NiM ops.

[robertthebard]

So the only group content being done is heroics?

 

HM FP/ SM OPs/ GSF/ WZ are not popping much. Everything else kinda doesn't matter from a MMO point of view.

 

 

 

To form ops groups, since that is where they are formed and where the entrances to the ops are, which you have to walk into to do HM/NiM ops.

 

Again with the assumptions? However, for the record, unlike people that believe that fleet is the primary hub of the game, and if that population is down then the game is doomed, I don't presume to know what everyone else is doing. I could speak to the people I saw during heroics and myself, but frankly, I don't have access to every instance of every op that may or may not be running at a specific time, which would, btw, further my argument that people are constantly on the fleet, but might actually be playing the game instead. So thanks for an additional metric, I guess.

 

No, I can form an Ops group in guild and private channel, and only hit fleet when the group's ready to run. Oh, I know, we're not supposed to have access to that kind of information on the forums, it makes it hard to argue with anything but hyperbole. I don't PuG, so I have no use for fleet, and therefore I don't go.

[TUXs]

Again with the assumptions? However, for the record, unlike people that believe that fleet is the primary hub of the game, and if that population is down then the game is doomed, I don't presume to know what everyone else is doing.

I've never said the game was doomed nor have I claimed to know what everyone else is doing. I'm simply stating that according to the stats we do have (torstatus) and my own observations, the population is most assuredly in a decline.

 

Like it or not, Fleet is the main hub of SWTOR. Maybe not for YOU, but it is...it always has been. I've played since beta and I assure you, Fleet has ALWAYS represented the health of the game. 100% without fail. I'm not basing this on one nights assessment, it's based on 4+ years of playing.

 

I wish my observations were different...but they aren't.

Edited March 14, 2016 by TUXs

[MadCuzBad]

I've never said the game was doomed nor have I claimed to know what everyone else is doing. I'm simply stating that according to the stats we do have (torstatus) and my own observations, the population is most assuredly in a decline.

 

Like it or not, Fleet is the main hub of SWTOR. Maybe not for YOU, but it is...it always has been. I've played since beta and I assure you, Fleet has ALWAYS represented the health of the game. 100% without fail. I'm not basing this on one nights assessment, it's based on 4+ years of playing.

 

I wish my observations were different...but they aren't.

 

^^^^^^^^EXACTLY^^^^^^^^^^^

Thank you!