Pay for subscription with credits

[teclado]

Yeah, I'm surprised that SWTOR is not already doing this. My only other experience with this type of thing is PLEX in Eve. It has worked pretty well for a long time. Maybe the fact that SWTOR has F2P and Eve does not is somehow a factor.

 

For those of you who are confused:

For every subscription that gets sold, that is one subscription that was purchased with somebody's real money. If literally everybody decided to stop paying their sub and simply pay with credits, there would be literally everybody doing F2P because there would be exactly zero subs available for purchase with credits on the market. Some people can't be bothered to grind credits, so they would rather effectively pay somebody else to do it (buy sub, sell for creds). It also would help defeat the credit sellers - why buy credits from a shady source that will probably give you a keylogger when you can do it through a legitimate channel? The credits farmers would have to get super cheap, which very well may put them out of business.

 

P.S. Eve PLEX are currently going for around 1 billion isk. If I had to try and convert that to SWTOR credits, I would guess somewhere around 6 million credits. I was guessing that it takes around 30 hours of grinding for a typical eve player to earn 1b, and I assumed 30 hours x 200k per hour grinding dailies = 6 million creds. If my 200k per hour estimate is low, well then maybe we are looking at 10-15 million. Regardless, we can all argue what we think is a reasonable rate, but the market will tell the real story.

Edited October 1, 2015 by teclado

[CaptRogue]

I

Under this the game token model, player X subs and pays essentially for player Ys sub and as such no longer needs to buy CCs to make extra credits off having desirable items in game to sell. So they go from 2 subs and some extra now and again to only 2 subs.

 

If the one player was buying CCs for CM items, that person will continue to do that regardless of his choice of sub payment. If anything he might buy more CCs because now he has the monthly budget from his sub fee he can throw at CCs.

 

If the market does it's job then the sellers will find a price point at which this thing reliably sells.

Some people might want to charge more, heck, some people might buy up a bunch that are at a lower price than they like and try to re-sell them, but at some point a "fair" price should be found.

 

Fair is in the eyes of the beholder. So no, fair wouldn't ever happen. Take for instance Warzone & Operation passes. I don't think they should be sold much higher than the credit cap of the users, because after all the only people who can use them can't afford much higher without spending even more credits. But yet if you look on the GTN, almost all the time, the Warzone passes are going for over 350k, and the Operation passes are going for 450k+. That is sheer ridiculous. They used to go for a reasonable amount, but in the past months reason has gone out the window.

 

More than you would want to pay? Then don't pay it. Get a regular sub like you have been.

 

Except this might actually encourage those who are not sure a sub is worth the money, check it out. Or for those can't afford to pay real money at the time to get a sub, which then will raise the queues of FP's, Warzones, Ranked, etc... I don't see it as a bad thing at all, but instead a help to the game.

 

This is no different than a cartel pack or an unlock or whatever else to me.

I think it would be hard to defend that I can only make X many credits off of a $20 game time token but I can make XXX many credits if I spent that $20 on cartel packs or unlocks or whatever else and then re-sell those.

 

Apples to oranges.

You're thinking that this token is to make massive credits though. That's not what is intended. Yes you can make a certain amount of profit off of it, but if you want XXX credits your best bet is to still get a Hypercrate & take your chances with good items in it.

 

Why is that not feasible? If that's the price people want to charge for it, then that's the price they charge. You then have the option of buying or not buying.

 

Because it's a rip off in actuality. Just because you can charge that doesn't mean you should. You're wanting to encourage players to come try this game out, or come back & sub. Charging 50mil, which is an extreme amount for most who can't play more than 2hrs/day, will do nothing but drive them away & defeat the purpose.

So no, this is one item that I think BW should set a price on if they added this feature to the game. They could add a separate area in the CM just for items of the like. 30 day, 60 day, 90 day, plus add all the free to play unlocks in it. Anything purchased out of that area would have a set vendor/GTN price.

 

If the price is that high, it will either encourage more people to buy it so they can get more ingame money, or else they won't sell which means people will start lowering their prices. It's the most basic form of the free market.

 

The basic form of free market doesn't even apply to this game. You have Joe Blow over here who plays 18hrs of the day sitting on 300mil credits constantly making more. Then you have John Smith who can only play 2hrs a day sitting on 10mil, which he's accrued over many months of playing.

Joe sets the price so high, that few can afford it. Leaving John & all the others like him, who could actually use said item, struggling to get the credits together. Then IF they actually get the credits together, they're broke & are struggling again to get the credits again for future purchases.

Joe won't lower the price if said item doesn't sell either, because he doesn't need the credits. He can afford to sit on that item for months at the same price.

Which throwing that into play on the servers is pretty much how it goes. When higher tier items don't sell, most people just keep continuing to put them up for the same price. They rarely lower the price & when they do it's not that much lower to make a difference.

 

The prices of stuff on the GTN and this player base has nothing to do with it. On Wildstar the price fluctuates week to week and from server to server.

 

Except this thread was not comparing it to Wildstar, but WoW. Separate games with two separate success rates.

[Rafaman]

Not everyone wants to do this though, i think in the long run they will lose a lot of money, and so many people will try to buy it to sell it, and it won't be worth crap in the end.

 

Well in practice that is not how it turned out in other games. Some players will remain subbed as they are, others will use these sub tokens and buy them from GTN. While still others will buy them to sell on GTN for credits. What ends up happening is BW makes more money because they sell sub tokens on top of their established normal sub count. BW is not losing any money because tokens bought for credits were already paid for in real money.

[Aeristash]

This, in the end with so many people trying to sell it, it wont be worth jack, maybe 900k credits at most. I don't approve, it think bioware will lose money, and they obviously think it too or it would already be in the game.

 

900k? Who in their right mind is going to sell you a month of sub time for less than the equivalent of a days worth of daily grinds? Lmao! The lowest I'd ever go with something like this is 15 mill,1 mill per rl dollar.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Aeristash

[Juromaro]

If the market does it's job then the sellers will find a price point at which this thing reliably sells.

Some people might want to charge more, heck, some people might buy up a bunch that are at a lower price than they like and try to re-sell them, but at some point a "fair" price should be found.

 

More than you would want to pay? Then don't pay it. Get a regular sub like you have been.

 

This is no different than a cartel pack or an unlock or whatever else to me.

I think it would be hard to defend that I can only make X many credits off of a $20 game time token but I can make XXX many credits if I spent that $20 on cartel packs or unlocks or whatever else and then re-sell those.

 

 

He's talking about how WoW controls the price of the token, WoW values to token(at last check) at 30,300 something, regardless if the price drops or goes higher if you buy the token for 20$ and it's at 30,300 you get 30,300, even if the price drops to 26k. This works for WoW because they currently do not have a CC market.

 

Now for it to work for Swtor then Bioware woulld have to gauge the value 20$ would go for in CC market, I.E 2500 coins or whatever 20$ gets you. They would then have to determine how much people spend on 2500 CC worth of items, say a set of Zakuul armor, which currently is 1400 CC, that set averages around 4-5 million credits, leaving 1100 CC so about 2-4 Million credits(average), Bioware would have to value the token at 8-9 Million to equal the value of the 2500 CC, but again this is server based, By setting this price Bioware would be effectively saying 2500 CC = 9 Million credits, so now items on the CC that cost 2500 CC would be price set at 9 million instead of whatever price more or less is current by server.

 

This would be a good addition to Swtor and I would buy tokens and sell them, but it would raise the current prices of CC related items, I.E instead of satele sabers going for 900k they would now go for 3 mil.

 

All of that of course is just conjecture as each server values cartel coins at a different rate. Still I would very much like an option to buy or sell a sub for ingame credits/cc.

[Raansu]

This, in the end with so many people trying to sell it, it wont be worth jack, maybe 900k credits at most. I don't approve, it think bioware will lose money, and they obviously think it too or it would already be in the game.

 

Lose money? Unlikely. Subs don't really have much of an impact on their money. CM sales probably double it plus I'd imagine just like the other games that do this method, the time box actually costs more than an actual subscription and players will buy more than one box.

[Rankyn]

The only way I could see it happening is if you had to purchase the subscription token with real money and not Cartel Coins.

 

Pay $15 (+tax, etc) for a token and then put it on the GTN.

BioWare gets their cash, I get some credits, and someone else got a "free" 30-day subscription.

 

Of course, what would happen is that the subscription tokens would be too expensive for non-subs to purchase and/or the hardcore credit grind required to afford a new one every month would be unsustainable, thus defeating the purpose.

[Icestar]

I do not see it happen with credits but they could implement a month token purchaseable with Cartel Coins.

[SaerethDL]

900k? Who in their right mind is going to sell you a month of sub time for less than the equivalent of a days worth of daily grinds? Lmao! The lowest I'd ever go with something like this is 15 mill,1 mill per rl dollar.

 

yeah and it will never sell because they will be flooded in the gtn for about 900k im telling you, 1 real dollar doesnt = 1 mil, you can see that with CC right now, 600 cc = less than 1 mil credits in return.

[Qui_Jon]

If the one player was buying CCs for CM items, that person will continue to do that regardless of his choice of sub payment. If anything he might buy more CCs because now he has the monthly budget from his sub fee he can throw at CCs.

 

No they wouldn't. Example"

 

With my subscription I get 600 CC a month, every couple months I might buy like 20 bucks more of coins to put me over the top to buy a hypercrate. That's 24 packs I can sell for normally around 270-300k a pop. So lets just say that ends up being like 6.5-7 million a hyper crate.

 

But with this system I can now buy 1 item a token that grants a month of sub time to another player. First off to make it worth my while this other player must already be subbing or he wouldn't have enough credits in the bank to afford the token. So now rather then buying a 24 pack of crates and managing a few on the market at once over a week or two, I can buy 1 item that cost me about the same amount of money but gets me about the same amount of credits, if not more depending on the market.

 

So I do that, my expense hasn't changed I by that 20 dollar token every couple months and sell it if I feel my credits are getting low. I still pay for my sub, but now my 20 dollars is not going to buy cartel market extras, its going to pay for another players subscription. SO essentially BW is getting the same amount of spending from me, and losing the extra subscription fees from whatever subscriber buys my token that month.

 

So breaking that down into numbers I pay 15 a month and we will say 10 extra because I spend 20 dollars every 2 months for some extra coins 20/2=10. So bioware on average gains currently 25 dollars from me, and 15 dollars from a person that currently farms credits and is willing to use those for sub time rather then paying real money but currently doesn't get that option. So right now bioware from me and player Y gets 40.00 a month. So since over 2 months I buy cartel coins lets say for 2 month BW gets 80.00.

 

Under the new system you want, my spending still the same 25.00 a month but that 25 dollars a month but over that same 2 month period to average BW would only get my 50.00 (15 for sub plus 20 for cartel coins), and during that time my credit earning actions then take away a month worth of subbing for player Y. So he only spends 15.00 for one month of a sub and 0 the month he buys my token. Totally over that same 2 month period 65.00

 

So over that time of my spending to earn credits right now they make 80 dollars under the proposed system they make 65 dollars, no matter how you cut it 80>65.

 

The reason why people buy cartel coins is twofold. One to buy things they want that are either too expensive on the GTN or are not available on the GTN. And two, to buy things to resale on the GTN to earn credits. Now yes that first person is probably not going to be effected by this nor will their spending. But the second totally could end up costing BW revenue depending on how popular the tokens become. Because right now I cam that second example of a player and if I can buy one item as a catch all for earning the credits I want and be done with it, that is exactly what I would be doing.

[Faardor]

the problem isnt it making money for bioware its that its possible to earn like 1 million credits per hour in this game without even involving the GTN or crafting or selling CM items. So either its gonna cost like 100 million credits for 30 days or people like myself who have an abundance of credits are gonna scoop them all up to not only use for ourself but to also charge exhorbitant prices for them. Bioware needs to make it harder (no joke!) to make credits otherwise this wont be a great measure.

 

Also for clarity 1 cartel coin = 1000 credits if you're buying something worth 1000 cartel coins and not getting a return of 1 million you're using your cartel coins in a really bad way.

 

I saw someone say 900k for a sub token and I would laugh my *** to the bank.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Faardor

[Vasflam]

Can you really see it happening?

Credits are not just easy to get in this game - they are ridiculously easy to get in this game.

They introduce this, a quick bit of maths will tell you how many credits you need to earn a day to cover the monthly cost - this game will never get another penny in subscription from me again.

Heck, I've probably already got enough credits across my characters to give me a couple of years of subscription.

 

Uh, the point of the whole ordeal would be that - somebody - buys the token for RL cash. Then the same somebody puts it on GTN for credits.

EA gets moneys.

Dude needing credits gets those.

Dude wanting gametime for credits gets that.

 

EA doesn't care if it is you or some other guy paying for your sub.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Vasflam

[Icykill_]

900k? Who in their right mind is going to sell you a month of sub time for less than the equivalent of a days worth of daily grinds? Lmao! The lowest I'd ever go with something like this is 15 mill,1 mill per rl dollar.

 

Considering I can sell a semi rare mount or armor piece for 1-2 mil per day... I'm sure people would be asking for 5-20mil per token

[Aeristash]

yeah and it will never sell because they will be flooded in the gtn for about 900k im telling you, 1 real dollar doesnt = 1 mil, you can see that with CC right now, 600 cc = less than 1 mil credits in return.

 

Bah keep dreaming, the sky will open up before subs are sold for a days worth of daily grinds. The 500 complimentary cartel coins are easily worth half a million alone, which would leave all the other fp,pvp,xp boost & other limitation lifts at the measly value of 400k by your estimations. The dropship I just bought on gtn was 3 mill alone and you're saying a whole sub is worth a fraction of that. lol NO

[Aeristash]

Considering I can sell a semi rare mount or armor piece for 1-2 mil per day... I'm sure people would be asking for 5-20mil per token

 

I know right? Glad to see someone who actually understands how pricing on the market operates. 900k... oh that's too funny

[APhantasm]

So essentially I buy subscription time in the form of some token with real money and exchange that on the gtn for in-game gold? I have no issue if they put something like this in-game. Tho, I'd be charging exorbitant amounts of gold for actual sub time.

 

Yeah something like that would never be cheap on GTN. We're talking millions of credits easy. That price would never ever go down either. Why because your spending fifteen, thirty, sixty, etc dollars for game time and then turning around and selling it on GTN for the creds. If I personally did that I would definitely sell it for millions of credits, enough to be able to buy several of the extremely rare items from the cartel packs.

[Icykill_]

I know right? Glad to see someone who actually understands how pricing on the market operates. 900k... oh that's too funny

 

I'm a GTN trader in between pvp matches because I don't do daily pve grinds for credits... Plus I make a lot more creds buying and selling on the GTN per day than I ever could doing dailies and it's easier... I make on average 1.5mil a day... Sure some days I make nothing, but others I make a killing of 20mil...

The trick is to buy low and sell high... Some things I sit on for months till the price goes up... Of course you need to use a bit of guess work as to what to buy... I've got a whole cargo hold full of crystals... Lots of expertise ones I got for 10-20k and I'm now selling for 400k-1mil... Same with dyes, mounts and certain Armor... Next time you're on the GTN, look at how much covert gear is worth (not chest)... I've made about 200mil alone on covert gear in the last 6 months

[Icykill_]

Yeah something like that would never be cheap on GTN. We're talking millions of credits easy. That price would never ever go down either. Why because your spending fifteen, thirty, sixty, etc dollars for game time and then turning around and selling it on GTN for the creds. If I personally did that I would definitely sell it for millions of credits, enough to be able to buy several of the extremely rare items from the cartel packs.

 

This is what would diminish the credit farmers... There would be people such as yourself willing to pay to get gear they actually want... Not buy 24 cartel packets and get nothing you were actually after...

Even if it didn't get rid of the credit farmers... The credits they sold to people would eventually end up as cash for Bio... So win, win for bio regardless

[SelinaH]

The only way I could see it happening is if you had to purchase the subscription token with real money and not Cartel Coins.

 

Pay $15 (+tax, etc) for a token and then put it on the GTN.

BioWare gets their cash, I get some credits, and someone else got a "free" 30-day subscription.

 

Of course, what would happen is that the subscription tokens would be too expensive for non-subs to purchase and/or the hardcore credit grind required to afford a new one every month would be unsustainable, thus defeating the purpose.

This. I don't see them selling sub time for Cartel Coins when you get at least 500CCs per month as part of the package. Why would they sell a recurring purchase that actually helps pay for itself?

[sojhill]

Also you should add Bioware pay us because we are playing their game!

Seriously? I pretend this post as a trolling post....

[Snowfawn]

I have to admit last months my sub on WoW only has been going bcs of the in game token. In there a token costs 40k gold, lately I think it has risen to 60K or 70K but normally its like 45K, I dont see how it would be a bad thing but in order for it to work in swtor theyd have to make a cheap amount of creds bcs not everyone makes like 1k creds or idk 10k creds, same as for Wow, thats why its accessible there to have token. I am sad that swtor doesnt have tjhis system yet bcs my income situation changed and would be easier indeed to buy with creds a sub. f2p has too many restrictions specially if you used to be a subscriber

[Jerqa]

I wouldn't mind seeing this added. Both Everquest II and rift have done this successfully and it gives folks something to spend all of that I game currency on.

 

Bioware would still get real life money for every token so thy would not be losing out on any income as long as the only way tokens are introduced to the game is from a store purchase.

Edited November 1, 2015 by Jerqa

[XiamaraSimi]

For those of you who are confused:

For every subscription that gets sold, that is one subscription that was purchased with somebody's real money. .

 

Wrong. Say bob has 15 refer a friend grants a month. Bob then uses the refer a friend cc geants to buy that sub token, bob then cancels his sub and uses the token. Bob spent 0 real money for a months sub.

 

Now imagine there are 3456 bobs...

Edited November 1, 2015 by XiamaraSimi

[MoyaSP]

I would love this if it was like the wildstar one, the wow one i dont like as much

[dscount]

/signed

 

I've actually posted the same thing in a previous thread.

 

Eric Musco even brought it up during a Live Stream conversation. They have "Discussed" this internally it appears, but nothing definitive at this point is going to happen.

 

Me personally would love to see it happen. WOW was just as easy to make gold in a day to purchase token. Heck I bought 6 months of sub's for two accounts in a few weeks of effort. BW would need to control the price like WOW did in order for it to not go stir crazy on the GTN.

 

REVENUE argument - CC's are bought and used to purchase these would be the only means to purchase tokens to sell to user community. This is HOW they would get money (No CC purchase = no in game token). Just selling it directly in game from a vendor is NOT likely to happen if it happens at all (IMHO).

 

SUBS would actually INCREASE and inflate the "Number of active subs" statistics for BW at the same time. (Yea... WOW did the exact same thing)

Edited November 1, 2015 by dscount