Harm in 12xXP

[Beltane]

I never really did group content while leveling even before 12x, or even xp boosts. I'm not sure what the problem is.

 

Some people like leveling solo.

 

I can understand why it would be frustrating if you're someone who prefers to level solely by group content such as flashpoints, but I'm not sure how harmful it is in the long run.

[branmakmuffin]

It's just that there is absolutely no reason why it should be 1200% more rewarding, in terms of XP given, than rest of the game.

Yes, there is a reason: it's their game and they said so. If you don't like 12x XP, turn it off. If you don't like others using 12x XP, you'll have to stick to single-player games where you won't encounter players who like to play differently from the way you play.

 

Sounds like you're just frustrated you can't find anyone to group with at lower levels.

 

It is extremely ironic how it is Premium and F2P crowd who end up with much more rich, much more varied experience.

A subscriber ends up with as "rich" and "varied' experience as they want. Since they can turn of 12x if they want.

Edited September 28, 2015 by branmakmuffin

[Eanelinea]

I never really did group content while leveling even before 12x, or even xp boosts. I'm not sure what the problem is.

 

Some people like leveling solo.

 

I can understand why it would be frustrating if you're someone who prefers to level solely by group content such as flashpoints, but I'm not sure how harmful it is in the long run.

 

I see it as it's only harmful to them because more than likely in real life they have no true friends or people they hang out with more than occasionally or ever and so they need that interaction in a game. Loser with a capital L on their forehead, but meh.

 

Those who solo HAVE social interaction at home, at work, when they go out with friends, they have family who takes up their time and so they/we can go without spending every waking moment with other people.

 

Or the ones who CRAVE social/group gaming have found that they REALLY suck alone, even with great gear, and need others to carry them.

 

That's how I see it when people almost demand social/group gaming. I'm not saying it's trufax, but I would NOT be surprised if I were right.

[ImmortalLowlife]

No op, you'll see the harm in 12xp after it ends if their "streamlined leveling" doesn't give a similar experience to leveling with 12xp. Because that solo crowd ( that I happen to be a part of btw) they managed to convince to play will start leaving. Not everyone enjoys group content. 12xp was made for players like myself. No-one is stopping you from doing group content. If you feel you can't find groups for group content, then maybe that speaks louder than anything anyone here can say about the play style of the majority of the player base.

 

I've told my story on many occasions, so I do apologize to those who are tired of seeing it.

 

I've been here since launch...I finally finished my 1st character class story after playing for over a year. I was ready to quit last year, because as much as I enjoyed the stories, I absolutely despised the grind. The ONLY reason I bought the SoR expansion was 12xp. The ONLY reason I'm still subbed now 12xp. And as excited as I am about KotFE, I know for a fact I'll spend a lot more time creating alts than I will doing ANY endgame content. I refuse to go back to the vanilla leveling experience, or even anything similar.

[LordJestR]

I've been here since launch...I finally finished my 1st character class story after playing for over a year. I was ready to quit last year, because as much as I enjoyed the stories, I absolutely despised the grind. The ONLY reason I bought the SoR expansion was 12xp. The ONLY reason I'm still subbed now 12xp. And as excited as I am about KotFE, I know for a fact I'll spend a lot more time creating alts than I will doing ANY endgame content. I refuse to go back to the vanilla leveling experience, or even anything similar.

 

Same thoughts. I quited 3 mths after launch due to lack of content. When the game went F2P, I tried again but levelling took so long I gave up.

 

With this 12xp, I resubbed right away and is enjoying the levelling process for several toons. Only sad thing I feel is I came back too late to get the Nico companion.

[XiamaraSimi]

Great thing about 12xp, I level toons quickly and easily. And I DON'T have to group with people, makes it even better.

 

I don't mind grouping with people, but this mentality of gamers thinking I should be forced to group with you, when people like you who want forced group play are usually:

 

<snip list of good points>

 

 

Agreed. Last i looked OP and OPs agreeers, I pay my sub. You have -ZERO- say on how -I-play -MY- characters.

 

Just because you want help with something doesnt mean you can demand/make me help you.

 

I pay to play this game to relax and have fun, not cater to you, or anyone else heres needs.

 

Im paying to cater to MINE. Again, im not here to schleppe you through the assorted heroics and Flashpoints you want to run, im not here to be a body to hide behind in your pvp match, im here to play the game for me. As others have said, im here for KOTOR 3-10.

 

You need others to carry you that badly, find a guild, or convince friends to play with you. Its not other peoples job to help you play a game how -you- want to play it.

 

Grouping in this game via random is terrible, pass on mouthbreathers, derpers, and Spacebar fanatics.

Edited September 28, 2015 by XiamaraSimi

[Crey]

I have to agree with lots of people here. The only reason i came back after leveling vanilla and actually engaged in endgame content was because of the 12x boost. Doing the same content over and over again is just boring. Hence why i rarely if ever level an alt.

 

Now i got more less every class at max and keep coming back for more.

[Onerats]

To be honest, I stopped reading when I hit "the average player spends most of his time driving from one instance to another". This simply isn't true. Flashpoints are normally totally avoided when leveling as is.. I don't give a damn about my character equipment when leveling. I want to finish my quests as quickly as I can. 12x or no, that's still true.

 

Also.. who drives to a flashpoint? Queue while you level and instant travel to it (and back) if you really want to do one.

[WSRB]

OP: this is like protesting a mall being built across from tour house after it's been built and they're just painting the parking lot now. We got six months of 12x this year, and you're protesting now with three weeks left. It's kind of a pointless endeavor.

 

Furthermore, your point revolves around "12x means playrs team up less while leveling". While that's sort of true, the entire leveling experience in pretty much all MMORPGs these days is built around a solo leveling experience; doesn't matter if it's WoW, Wildstar, ESO or SWTOR: group play during the leveling experience is no longer the norm. From a time to xp gained ratio, solo questing is always more productive than group content (for pve anyway); 12x changes this fact in no way, it only makes it more heavily weighted in favor of solo play.

[robertthebard]

To be honest, I stopped reading when I hit "the average player spends most of his time driving from one instance to another". This simply isn't true. Flashpoints are normally totally avoided when leveling as is.. I don't give a damn about my character equipment when leveling. I want to finish my quests as quickly as I can. 12x or no, that's still true.

 

Also.. who drives to a flashpoint? Queue while you level and instant travel to it (and back) if you really want to do one.

 

To be completely fair here, all Class missions do occur in phases, which are instanced. Of course, this leaves out Planetary Missions, which also tend to have at least one instance in the chain, usually at the end, so that Joe Schmuck can't come and ruin what you're trying to accomplish in a story mission.

[Telmyst]

After having done the 'rich and varied' content on every class to get to the end of the original story content, I'm perfectly fine with skipping the planetary/side quests as I level up alts. The stories are great, but when you've done them a minimum of 4 times each on both sides, being able to focus on seeing the class story itself is fantastic. I enjoy the occasional group, but as many other players here have said, I prefer to see my story line solo and be able to make the choices that I want affecting my character. This is why they put in the option to turn off the 12xXP - so that everyone can play the way they want to. Turn it off and enjoy your experience with those who like to play with a similar style. That's the fantastic thing about this game, it does cater to multiple styles of play. Edited September 28, 2015 by Telmyst

[Thoronmir]

So ... the OP hypothesizes that 12x XP induces more players to spend all their game time soloing than would without 12x XP, which has a chilling effect on group play, said chilling effect reducing the pool of available characters for group play, which lessens the efficacy and attractiveness of group play, which harms the community and, hence, the game? Sorry, but that hypothesis is flawed.

 

We lack the necessary metrics to determine whether 12x XP actually has the impact alleged by the OP. Granted, it makes sense, but all anyone has posted is anecdotal "data" concerning whether/how 12x XP has affected players' desire for group play. To add to the pile of irrelevant story-telling, allow me to submit my personal experience: 12x XP has had ZERO effect on my patterns of group play. I play no more nor any less in groups now than I did before the advent of 12x XP. When I want group play, I turn to my Guild or my friends. I gave up on Group Finder PUGs long, long ago.

 

Also, one must consider that the OP's theory is limited to what I will call "Along the Journey" group play. 12x XP has no effect on group play after level 55. It can only impact earlier level FPs and OPs. Again, many of us still play in groups with our Guilds. Others may still queue, if for no other reason than habit. If the "harm" alleged is to the community's social structure based on 12x XP turning us all into misanthropic hermits who never interact with other players, I have to add that I RP extensively in SWTOR (which is at least as conducive to personal interactions between players as running an umpteenth FP to the refrain of "spacbrz now!").

 

Another flaw in the OP's theory is the assumption that group play is, in fact, interactive. I concede that group play is, by definition, a collective activity. But actual communication during a PUG is always a dicey proposition. I don't expect conversation during a FP ... I've no interest in how Aunt Katie's prize sow performed at the State Fair ... but my PUG experience includes a significant percentage of FPs that lacked any useful communication at all (I do not count "spacbrz now!" as communication).

 

Finally, the gravest flaw in the OP's theory of "harm" caused by 12x XP is that he presupposes we all share his subjective view of the game. I do not doubt that the OP believes that 12x XP harms his ideal of the game. While I am quite certain that 12x XP enhances mine.

 

TLDR: The OP is truculent because no one wants to play with him.

Edited September 28, 2015 by Thoronmir

[Lexhorn]

I am a day1 player, and without x12 I will never got back to this game ... Last two weeks I leveled two char to 55 only with the class quest, and that was exactly why I subbed back ... I enjoy now the game again because I didn't had to do this never ending tedious leveling that I already made 2 years ago and before.

[LadyVix]

You see me ride by on my mount and say that 12x EXP killed the game because I'm not participating in lowbie flashpoints, etc.

 

The truth is that if we didn't have 12x EXP, I wouldn't be on that planet at all, either to level or to help new players with things they're struggling on. You're not losing anything. You're gaining experienced players to answer questions, and to populate worlds that would otherwise have been barren and underpopulated.

[sojhill]

I always love to grind my character with every part of game. Fighting and playing trough all content also is a respect to developers who made it but; I'm a guy with standard work-home-friends circle. I don't have time to play same content for hours. You know, real fun is at the end game. Friends, instances, pvp mayhem.... I have couple of both Rep and Imp toons at max. While i wait for the FE, i'd like to get in action with a bit of boost with mirror classes or unused classes. Thats why i defend the 12X boost at this rate. You can use FP and PVP regularly to hone your skills on the way. This is a game, not a quantum math to handle. Just use rotations and read skill descriptions. I always helped players who can't understand its role and they adapt quickly and contributed team. You can use a couple of hints rather than hate speech if you have good experience about classes. Don't be a complainer and help. Don't poke the problems that you can fix them. There is alot of "real" problems game has like killing performance etc...

[Bomyne]

The problem is that this game has two components. The single player game, and the multiiplayer game.

 

Not all of us playing this game care about interacting with other players. I didn't need to interact with other players in Mass Effect, Dragon Age, or KOTOR. Nor do I want to be interacting with players here.

 

I hope the 12x XP stays because it means I don't have to do world quests to level. I'm fine with that.

[Codedrago]

There's also a load of people who still wouldn't partake in those activities even if the 12XP didn't exsist, I never did any WZ until I was bored and I tended to only do FP's that were story centred (Esseles, Black Talon, Foundry, ect), though I should mention that even before 12XP you would be waitin a while before getting a group. 12XP doesn't really harm it, 12XP just increases the chance that at high level you mihgt come across more inexperienced players.

[Heat-Wave]

Q: Aha! But you can buy an item that disables it! You, Vasflam, don't have to use 12xXp if you don't like! So it looks like your point is moot!

A: It isn't important how quickly or slowly or through which activity I, or any one single player gets his xp. I certainly personally don't care of MY xp. It's just that community is made of collective pile of people. and HUGE portion of this pile will never want to nerf their experience.

 

So... what I read was that you want everyone to lose 12x XP so that you have someone to play with while leveling?

 

Remind me why other paying customers owe you that experience?

[MSchuyler]

For a typical Subscriber, 12xXP causes a great deal of harm to any and all meaningful group&social content between 1 and 55. For typical player, it can remove other players from the picture almost entirely. Average player spends most of his 1-55 by driving from one instance to another while occasionally listening to Jennifer Hale say nice things.

 

You say that like it's a bad thing. 12XP is a choice. Choose it or don't. Players have never been required to engage in "group & social content." And why should they? One or two interactions in "group & social content" where you are vote-kicked for the wrong dye pack or sworn at and harassed if some special snowflake says you did something wrong is enough to cure you of "group & social content" forever.

 

Some players (No, I don't know how many, but I suspect a substantial number) don't need the grief and prefer to play without any "Group & social content" whether or not there is such a thing as 12XP. And I'm guessing they do not feel "harmed" by this choice, but would feel "harmed" if they were forced to do it.

 

Your claim that this is "harmful" is subjective. And your implied suggestion that this should not be allowed is really none of your business. My subscription is just as valid as yours. This is my game, too, and I like it like it is. To put this as mildly as I can, I do not care to engage in "group & social content" with you or others like you. If I choose to do so it will be voluntary at my own behest and not forced upon me. And if that were to change (and I do not expect it to), then I would not be subscribed.

[Heat-Wave]

Honesly, I'd prefer a general 2x XP to everything rather than 12x XP to just class missions.

 

It allows you to spread around your leveling without feelling like you have to ONLY do class missions.

 

Yes, I know that with 2x XP some people just KDY to 55, but I never did. I have leveled several toons during the 2x weeks and used all sorts of in game features while doing so, from WZ/GF/FP, to planet quests and of course class missions.

[Bomyne]

Honesly, I'd prefer a general 2x XP to everything rather than 12x XP to just class missions.

 

It allows you to spread around your leveling without feelling like you have to ONLY do class missions.

 

Yes, I know that with 2x XP some people just KDY to 55, but I never did. I have leveled several toons during the 2x weeks and used all sorts of in game features while doing so, from WZ/GF/FP, to planet quests and of course class missions.

You don't have to only do class missions My girlfriend is leveling by doing all but the heroic quests on everyplanet, even with the 12x. I'm doing only class missions.

 

I want to only do class missions, nothing else. Its a choice.

[Thoronmir]

You don't have to only do class missions My girlfriend is leveling by doing all but the heroic quests on everyplanet, even with the 12x. I'm doing only class missions.

 

I want to only do class missions, nothing else. Its a choice.

My plan was to just do Class and Planetary (not Side) Missions. My plan failed. I find myself doing everything ... including filling my map. SWTOR routine > self-control.

[Codedrago]

You don't have to only do class missions My girlfriend is leveling by doing all but the heroic quests on everyplanet, even with the 12x. I'm doing only class missions.

 

I want to only do class missions, nothing else. Its a choice.

 

I play both my Class Quests and planetary storylines I love (I get to do Tatooine and avoid Alderaan, BECAUSE **** ALDERAAN!). I also do some specific FP's that I love

[Bomyne]

I play both my Class Quests and planetary storylines I love (I get to do Tatooine and avoid Alderaan, BECAUSE **** ALDERAAN!). I also do some specific FP's that I love

 

I would say **** tatooine and do Alderaan, personally but... Hey, choice

[RaiderMid]

I love the 12x for the fact that the story can flow very. But I do find myself a little weaker than I should be, since im skipping a lot of quest rewards.

 

You still have to mod up you and your companion at some point. Don't want to waste the comms? GTN is your friend.

It isn't expensive to gear yourself and companion that way if you're buying greens, which is all you really need just running the story. Get to SOR and they are basically throwing gear at you at that point and weekly Yavin sets your companion up, even though that won't matter much longer.

Edited September 28, 2015 by RaiderMid