Solo Players punished with Operations?

[Runarok]

I played most of the ops recently(due to the fact that level 50 ops are pretty easy right now) with a small group, and I enjoyed them a lot, both the environment and the story.

 

I think it would be great if there was a solo mode with a droid - and no loot. People would probably be doing those solo ops only once or twice, but they'd get the story, and enjoy it, and enjoy it at their own pace.

 

I enjoyed playing in a group, especially for a guild run with TS, but the challenges and multiple wipes(hello, Quartermaster Bulo!) are just not for me. I'd welcome a solo mode with a droid gladly.

 

P.S. Revan's "solo mode" is not the same, because you still lose the opportunity to see beautiful environments and meet HK-47 for one last time.

 

Actually the solo Revan fight occurs after the events in Temple of Sacrifice where the ops group just forces Revan to retreat.

And well pretty much every operation before SOR had it's own place in a HUGE post-personal-story plot that was finished on Oricon. And if BW wouldn't release a daily zone and just did 2 ops I guess people wouldn't complain about the story which started on Belsavis as a side quest (as far as i remember correctly) and then went through every ops except for EV just because they wouldn't know about it.

I don't even mind solo operations and I love SW story but for almost 4 years we can see how limited resources of BW and new expansion already hurting the way I play this game so for now I'm against it.

By the way it seems with KOTFE (starting with SOR) and outlander they are going out of the idea about plotlines hidden behind operations and the events in operations will be something happening prior to the end of storylines.

[JattaGin]

Operations are extremely boring to me and they take way too much time. And most of this time is waiting for something or someone. Disconnects. Baby is awake. Dog needs to get out. Etc. pp.

 

I play operations with my rep and imp main, if necessary. And I know how to play. That's not the issue. I just dislike this playstyle.

 

With all my many other chars, I cleared all the story contents. Except the operations. These chars are all stuck in the stories for these missions and will have these cursed OP story missions forever in their log.

 

I don't care about the loot. I only want to get the stories for these chars. I will never play an operation with my sorcerer. All I do with him is casting lightning and thunder. Nothing else. No group would ever be able to carry him through an OP. He is stupid and annoying. But in my opinion he deserves to see all the stories offered to him nonetheless.

 

I am strongly for a solo player mode for all operations which are forcedly connected to a storyline. Which is basically all pre-60 ones. I hope they add such a thing as part of the streamlineing for KofFE.

[FerkWork]

Instead of changing Ops to be solo able which would be quite resource intensive is to change how to get to the final cutscenes of Dread War.

 

Simplest solution is to make the requirement the Ops or do the Oricon Weekly. Simple and effective. Leave Ops as they are.

[Jedi_riches]

I understand that this is a MMO so obviously there should not be a solo mode for all operations as there should be some stuff that you can only get from group content.

 

That said however, I do disapprove of the use of operations to "finish off" story content (and yes I do count Oricon as story content since as an imperial you release them to begin with) and I feel anything that you can "solo" up the end of something should have a solo ending (or at least a solo option).

[DawnAskham]

I understand that this is a MMO so obviously there should not be a solo mode for all operations as there should be some stuff that you can only get from group content.

 

That said however, I do disapprove of the use of operations to "finish off" story content (and yes I do count Oricon as story content since as an imperial you release them to begin with) and I feel anything that you can "solo" up the end of something should have a solo ending (or at least a solo option).

 

Oricon / Dread Masters is old content.

 

All current content for story is solo friendly, the end of the Revan line offers the choice to play solo or play through ToS, both ending in the Revan solo fight.

 

Maybe they go back and add something to Oricon where doing the mainline provides an option to either do the Operations or do something else, and at the end results in the final cut scene.

 

But I don't expect to see solo Operations and personally feel it would be ridiculous and a waste of development effort.

[aerockyul]

The overall theme of this thread is not resonating with some people. Solo players could care less about the existence of Operations, and do not wish to take them away from those of you that do. What solo players want is to be able to finish the story arc that, up to those gated Operations and Heroic 4's, can be completely solo'd. They don't want the loot, they don't want the achievements, they don't want to ruin YOUR time. They want to run the story arc to its conclusion without being forced into an Op or Heroic (or forced PvP)

It's also not as simple as "go watch the cutscenes on YouTube". Solo players more especially are connected to their own characters and want to experience the story, dialogue, and cutscenes themselves, not some guy's in Sweden with a different character and personality.

[aerockyul]

Oricon / Dread Masters is old content.

 

All current content for story is solo friendly, the end of the Revan line offers the choice to play solo or play through ToS, both ending in the Revan solo fight.

 

Maybe they go back and add something to Oricon where doing the mainline provides an option to either do the Operations or do something else, and at the end results in the final cut scene.

 

But I don't expect to see solo Operations and personally feel it would be ridiculous and a waste of development effort.

 

I think that's a great idea. People who like Ops can do the Op, people who want to see the story can do something else that results in the same cutscenes. I'd be 100% on board with that. I think it's a better solution than pulling the rug out from underneath people who prefer to play the game solo

[Leylea]

 

I try to 'pull myself together' ... my little raider heart is allready beaten and kicked by BWs KotfE announcement ... its already lieing on the ground, bleeding and taking its last breath ...

 

 

And then U cant simple pass by. NO! instead u start jumping on it and spit on it ... finally u mashed it and still complain it didnt splatter enough.

 

:mad::mad::mad:

 

jesus ... noone wanna know what i wih u right now!

[Shwarzchild]

If you're a true solo-ist; don't care about loot; and just want to see the story then I would have no problem with adding in a solo function like the Revan fight so you could see it. My problem here is with the OP who clearly states he wants the loot, and that's his primary reason for not wanting to do an operation. Then, the OP uses the guise of "well I want to see the story" as his cover. In his case, I absolutely do not want his views to be accepted. It's a ruse plain and simple.

 

Now let's talk about Oricon for a second. When you finish the daily quest area with the heroic 2+. You are essentially:

 

SPOILERS

 

 

 

 

 

 

stopping the dread master threat by stranding them on Oricon, and stopping their invasion. Thus, you have reached the end successfully. They pose no more threat to the galaxy, and you have been victorious. So in a way, soloists have seen the conclusion of that arc. If you want to actually phyisically kill the masters then you can do the ops. So in a way, I don't agree that solo-ists are locked from that story by any means.

[aerockyul]

If you're a true solo-ist; don't care about loot; and just want to see the story then I would have no problem with adding in a solo function like the Revan fight so you could see it. My problem here is with the OP who clearly states he wants the loot, and that's his primary reason for not wanting to do an operation. Then, the OP uses the guise of "well I want to see the story" as his cover. In his case, I absolutely do not want his views to be accepted. It's a ruse plain and simple.

 

Now let's talk about Oricon for a second. When you finish the daily quest area with the heroic 2+. You are essentially:

 

Yeah, I don't care about the loot aspect, and agree if that was the OP's only gripe, it's not a very valid complaint. From the story alone perspective, though, I do agree, whether the OP means it or not.

[Curbhunter]

YouTube you get to see all cut screens for free

[Jedi_riches]

YouTube you get to see all cut screens for free

 

This does not really fly, as like walkthrough video's characters don't look like mine, don't choose the conversation options that I would or use the same companions that I do (for the little exchanges between characters you can get in some conversations and so basically IT IS NOT MY CHARACTER!!

[Leklor]

YouTube you get to see all cut screens for free

 

But it's not my character, probably not my choices and it's not me reaching that point.

So no, it's not a solution to experience story.

[Asheris]

First off - there is really not much of a story in operations. Trust me. No dialogue choices, just bosses braginning about how they will enjoy killing you (which they fail...or not ). Nothing in there that any story-driven player needs to see, it has zero impact on your character (and if you cannot imagine your toon in said situations after watching a YouTube video than you are not much of an RPer hence the point is moot).

 

Second - you decided to play an MMO. Sure, it is very solo-friendly, but it is still designed with elements that requires you to group up. There is a reason pvp needs a group (duh ) and there is a reason pve also has it. Look at it from an RP perspective - there is no way you could single-handedly defeated the armies of Kephess or the Dread Masters. It takes the Empires/Republics best to best them. Or look at it from a mechanic point of view - there needs to be a reason in an MMO for people to deated bosses while coordinating with others, it's part of the fun - if you don't enjoy it because you are intisocial and prefer story over people - don't do it (also see first paraghraph of this post).

[Darth_Dreselus]

- Gets a whole expansion focussed on single player content

- Complains about there being multilayer content in a MMO

 

notsureiftroll.jpeg

[DataBeaver]

First off - there is really not much of a story in operations. Trust me. No dialogue choices, just bosses braginning about how they will enjoy killing you (which they fail...or not ). Nothing in there that any story-driven player needs to see, it has zero impact on your character (and if you cannot imagine your toon in said situations after watching a YouTube video than you are not much of an RPer hence the point is moot).

Not in the ops themselves, no. But each operation has a one-time mission associated with it, which contains some cutscenes and conversation choices. So it stands to reason that someone might want to experience those.

 

As for the OP: if you're truly doing the ops for the story, you wouldn't care about the loot. It's easy enough to do do a successful pug run through everything but Temple of Sacrifice.

 

A solo mode for operations with no loot (except credits in amounts comparable to other solo content)? Sure, go ahead.

 

A solo mode with any ops-exclusive loot? No way. Let the ops runners have their thing too. The Cartel Market is chock full of better looking armor too.

[Kulyok]

First off - there is really not much of a story in operations. Trust me. No dialogue choices, just bosses braginning about how they will enjoy killing you (which they fail...or not ). Nothing in there that any story-driven player needs to see, it has zero impact on your character (and if you cannot imagine your toon in said situations after watching a YouTube video than you are not much of an RPer hence the point is moot).

 

I'm forced to disagree here. I thought there was quite a lot of story in Eternity Vault, not to mention the Dread Masters arc, and I enjoyed both the ending/beginning cutscenes and the bosses. I think players who never tried the Terror from Beyond missed out on great visuals, too.

 

Second - you decided to play an MMO. Sure, it is very solo-friendly, but it is still designed with elements that requires you to group up. There is a reason pvp needs a group (duh ) and there is a reason pve also has it. Look at it from an RP perspective - there is no way you could single-handedly defeated the armies of Kephess or the Dread Masters. It takes the Empires/Republics best to best them. Or look at it from a mechanic point of view - there needs to be a reason in an MMO for people to deated bosses while coordinating with others, it's part of the fun - if you don't enjoy it because you are intisocial and prefer story over people - don't do it (also see first paraghraph of this post).

 

I'm afraid social aspect isn't the only problem. The ops don't work like easy tactical flashpoints do: people really need to know tactics, and people need to be geared the way solo player may never be(ultimates, set bonuses, a good mainhand). I know I went on a Blood Hunt FP wearing full augmented 192's, and tank/healer/other dd were wearing good 192/190 stuff, too, and we weren't completely bad, and we suffered. Story mode op is actually _harder_ than HM FP's, which means it's even more prohibitive. So you need to group up AND get good gear and achievements somehow, otherwise a PUG won't take you, so it is mostly only possible with a guild, and not many guilds 1) have enough op players; 2) are willing to carry newcomers(who don't know tactics and are barely geared).

 

We either need a real faceroll storymode so anybody wearing 186 would be welcome to try it out, or we need a solo mode. Otherwise, well, yeah - too many players would miss out.

[Leklor]

I'm forced to disagree here. I thought there was quite a lot of story in Eternity Vault, not to mention the Dread Masters arc, and I enjoyed both the ending/beginning cutscenes and the bosses. I think players who never tried the Terror from Beyond missed out on great visuals, too.

 

 

 

I'm afraid social aspect isn't the only problem. The ops don't work like easy tactical flashpoints do: people really need to know tactics, and people need to be geared the way solo player may never be(ultimates, set bonuses, a good mainhand). I know I went on a Blood Hunt FP wearing full augmented 192's, and tank/healer/other dd were wearing good 192/190 stuff, too, and we weren't completely bad, and we suffered. Story mode op is actually _harder_ than HM FP's, which means it's even more prohibitive. So you need to group up AND get good gear and achievements somehow, otherwise a PUG won't take you, so it is mostly only possible with a guild, and not many guilds 1) have enough op players; 2) are willing to carry newcomers(who don't know tactics and are barely geared).

 

We either need a real faceroll storymode so anybody wearing 186 would be welcome to try it out, or we need a solo mode. Otherwise, well, yeah - too many players would miss out.

 

Quoted For Truth.

That's my real issue with story content tied to Ops, you just say it much better.

[Asheris]

I'm forced to disagree here. I thought there was quite a lot of story in Eternity Vault, not to mention the Dread Masters arc, and I enjoyed both the ending/beginning cutscenes and the bosses. I think players who never tried the Terror from Beyond missed out on great visuals, too.

There was no story in either Dread Fortress nor Dread Palace - it was a struggle to defeat the bosses - same, if not more engaging, stories are portrayed in flashpoints. Besides, like I said - no dialogues means every player sees the same - watch a movie from the encounter and you will see everything there is to see.

 

I'm afraid social aspect isn't the only problem. The ops don't work like easy tactical flashpoints do: people really need to know tactics, and people need to be geared the way solo player may never be(ultimates, set bonuses, a good mainhand). I know I went on a Blood Hunt FP wearing full augmented 192's, and tank/healer/other dd were wearing good 192/190 stuff, too, and we weren't completely bad, and we suffered. Story mode op is actually _harder_ than HM FP's, which means it's even more prohibitive. So you need to group up AND get good gear and achievements somehow, otherwise a PUG won't take you, so it is mostly only possible with a guild, and not many guilds 1) have enough op players; 2) are willing to carry newcomers(who don't know tactics and are barely geared).

 

We either need a real faceroll storymode so anybody wearing 186 would be welcome to try it out, or we need a solo mode. Otherwise, well, yeah - too many players would miss out.

Where do you think the ops crowd get their stuff? That's right! From ops. Everyone starts out with flahspoint gear (or do "solo" payers don't even do those? ), that is why storymodes exist - if you want just the story you do it, if you cannot grasp the basic tactics of storymode then you are not ment to do it at all. And no, storymode ops are not as hard as the *new* HM flashpoints.

 

And if someone doesn't bother with knowing the basic tactics before joining an ops group they have nobody to blame but themselves if they get kicked out, really.

 

But this whole conversation is moot because like I said before - there is no impactful story in any ops, it's generic and does not bear any impact on the rest of the game at all. Same stories can be had at the beginning of every warzone.

 

It's an MMO, some things (like irl) cannot be done by one person because it's not logical/not fitting the game mechanics.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Asheris

[DataBeaver]

There was no story in either Dread Fortress nor Dread Palace - it was a struggle to defeat the bosses - same, if not more engaging, stories are portrayed in flashpoints. Besides, like I said - no dialogues means every player sees the same - watch a movie from the encounter and you will see everything there is to see.

There is the conclusion to the Oricon storyline though, which you'll only get to see after doing both ops. You get a couple of lines to say, and even a LS/DS choice.

 

Republic characters get to decide the fate of Dread Master Calphayus as he stumbles into your camp. Imperial players have to choose whether to salvage the Dread Masters' fear-inducing technology or destroy it for good.

 

But this whole conversation is moot because like I said before - there is no impactful story in any ops, it's generic and does not bear any impact on the rest of the game at all. Same stories can be had at the beginning of every warzone.

There are practically no choices with long-term consequences in the entire game. They are all handwaved away with an immediate cutscene and a few LS/DS points.

 

As I said before, all ops do have a one-time mission associated with them that has conversation choices.

 

TfB in particular, where you have to deal with the Gree envoy and decide whether to try to understand what he says or be openly disrespectful to their culture.

 

Edited July 27, 2015 by DataBeaver

[masstershake]

All the solo players crying they want to be able to finish the "Story" solo are very selfish, and are trying to ruin the "story"

 

For instance for the dreadmasters story, they are big and bad, and the "story" says you will need a group of people to kill them because if 1 guy can kill them alone how big and bad are these dreadmasters to begin with?

 

I get it, solo players are too scared or don't want to bother with the MMO aspect of this game, and want to finish the "story" but your logic is flawed, because part of the "story" is it takes a group to beat the big baddies at the end of the op....

 

it no longer would be a good "story" and frankly would ruin the "story" if you could walk in and watch your droid kill everything.

[Leklor]

All the solo players crying they want to be able to finish the "Story" solo are very selfish, and are trying to ruin the "story"

 

For instance for the dreadmasters story, they are big and bad, and the "story" says you will need a group of people to kill them because if 1 guy can kill them alone how big and bad are these dreadmasters to begin with?

 

I get it, solo players are too scared or don't want to bother with the MMO aspect of this game, and want to finish the "story" but your logic is flawed, because part of the "story" is it takes a group to beat the big baddies at the end of the op....

 

it no longer would be a good "story" and frankly would ruin the "story" if you could walk in and watch your droid kill everything.

 

Yeah, and Revan was powerful too. Yet he was "soloable" with AI companions. Why shouldn't the Dreadmasters be so? Just find a way for Pub and Imps quest givers to assist the player in a fight against them.

I'm not arguing the quality or difficulty of the Revan fight (It's neither really good nor really hard) but it's still solo.

Plus honestly, when you see some of the end story bosses, you wonder how the Dread Master or anyone could stand up to them and yet you defeat them with a single companion.

So yeah, gating story content behing mandatory raid is stupid.

 

EDIT: Or maybe separate the Dread Masters? I don't even know how the Ops happen but I suppose there is at least a fight where there are more than a single Dread Master opposing the raid at a given time.

Edited July 27, 2015 by Leklor

[AnnyJuly]

I would welcome solo mode for ops or some alternate way to finish Oricon story (I think it's 2 Ops?). I know there are other ops from Dread Masters arc, but I can live with necessity to group to see them. But this two particular ops are finishing solo Oricon quest chain and I would like to see what's in there. And gsi heroics .

 

I don't care about rewards at all. I only want to be able to experience the story once per character. I think AI companions would work well story wise.

 

I can understand why some content locked behind group wall. Probably to encourage people to try that content? I know, this won't work for me, because if I can't solo content I just don't do it. However, I group for content I soloed once pretty often now

[Draqsko]

EDIT: Or maybe separate the Dread Masters? I don't even know how the Ops happen but I suppose there is at least a fight where there are more than a single Dread Master opposing the raid at a given time.

 

Maybe should actually read the Operations guides before asking for solo-modes.

 

http://dulfy.net/2013/10/04/swtor-dread-palace-operation-guide/

 

Also...

 

Scum & Vilainy and others are fine. They are mostly self-contained stories. I'm mostly ranting about the Dread War Arc inclusion of a solo quest line. It should never have. Or solo versions of majors bosses of all Dread War Ops should have been playable.

It's not about having to do all bosses or a few, my rant is strictly about imposing Ops that lock out story endings at all.

 

Karraga's Palace, Terror From Beyond, and Scum and Villany are all setting up Oricon and directly tied to the Dread Master's story. Only 2 Ops in game have a self contained story, Eternity Vault, and Ravagers. The entire Dread Masters story arc is primarily an Operations story arc, not a solo story arc. Freeing the Dread Masters on Belsavis isn't anything more than a side mission for Imperial players and there isn't really much of their story there you meet them and that's it. The story starts in KP, where everyone is first introduced to the Dread Masters in name.

 

So you are complaining about a story arc that essentially starts in an Operation, and ends in an Operation, with 2 solo-able daily areas tied to that arc that were introduced as a way to gear up for the operations in that story arc. If the only thing you cared about was the single player story, then why are you complaining about the multiplayer story that operations players get?

[aerockyul]

I love how the prelude to SoR works, and here's what I do with it

 

I do each FP solo with the droid so I can watch each cutscene on my own time.

 

When I'm done with that first run, I still queue up for the same flashpoints through GF for the rewards, achievements, and loot (meager as it is depending on the level I'm running them)--I'm still playing with other people at this point, and now I don't mind skipping the scenes (and my blood boils a little less when guys are spamming spacebar and skip messages in all their variations throughout the FP since I've already done them for my characters)

 

I want to be able to do the same thing for the Ops. First runthrough I would be happy to do without drops, credits, comms, loot, etc, but also without the nonsense from the majority of groups gating you with high-pressure requirements in order to join their group, but only if you "know fights" "link cheevos" "have max gear" (that you can only get from said Op), "prove you beat UL without a single wipe" (/sarcasm on that one, but it's the one that gets spammed the most on fleet).

 

After that first runthrough I'd be happy to try Ops on a regular basis after I've been able to do it once to experience the cutscenes/convos/LS/DS choices/etc. for myself and have at least a visual understanding of the mechanics (some people do not learn very well simply reading guides, and even more people do not like the idea of having to do homework in order to enjoy a video game)

 

I don't see how raiders wouldn't see that as a benefit. You'd get slightly more competent people joining your groups that will have a little more confidence and awareness of the Op, instead of subjecting them (and yourselves) to constant facepalming and frustration of newbs/noobs messing up your Op runs.