Solo Players punished with Operations?

[Monumenta]

FTFY.

Kephess is love

 

thank you

[thewitchdoctor]

FTFY.

Kephess is love

 

I want Kephess as a follower.

 

Hell, make Kephess the Outlander and I'll be his follower!

[Xedry]

It's ironic that you make this sort of hyperbolic statement when the person you quoted listed out all of the many forms of solo content that exists in this game, and only asked "Please leave Ops as they are."

 

 

I don't want them to take away OPS for group content but I would like a Solo version of OPS so I can enjoy the story at in my own way... I don't want my cake and to eat it too... I want everyone to have cake and to be able to eat it to. The People who like to group will always group but people who don't like other people... Cause I pretty much hate everyone it's how I am. Are not but we all pay so I'd like us all to get what we want. there is no reason we can have it all

[FerkWork]

I don't want them to take away OPS for group content but I would like a Solo version of OPS so I can enjoy the story at in my own way... I don't want my cake and to eat it too... I want everyone to have cake and to be able to eat it to. The People who like to group will always group but people who don't like other people... Cause I pretty much hate everyone it's how I am. Are not but we all pay so I'd like us all to get what we want. there is no reason we can have it all

 

I want Ops for leveling instead of story. And some tacos

[Xedry]

I want Ops for leveling instead of story. And some tacos

 

If OPS had zero and I mean Zero story to them I'd never want to play them so maybe what we should ask for is all ops just be mindless grouping! and reward with taco of course

Edited August 27, 2015 by Xedry

[Khevar]

I don't want them to take away OPS for group content but I would like a Solo version of OPS so I can enjoy the story at in my own way.

I can understand this desire.

 

Of course, it would require quite a bit more development time to come up with a solo version of the operations. It's not just a matter of giving you two superdroids, or three, or four. Boss encounters have a number of mechanics, all of which would need to be reworked (or the fights changed COMPLETELY) just so a player could be able to run it solo.

 

Sorry for being harsh here, but I feel like this is coming from some idea that "Every single activity in the game should be accessible to ME, dammit!" It just seems greedy, considering how this game is one of the most solo-friendly MMOs ever produced. The sheer amount of activity you can do in this game that doesn't require you to group with another player is pretty remarkable.

 

Of course it would be silly to expect everything in the game to require a group. But what's wrong with SOME things requiring a group?

Edited August 27, 2015 by Khevar

[Xedry]

I can understand this desire.

 

Of course, it would require quite a bit more development time to come up with a solo version of the operations. It's not just a matter of giving you two superdroids, or three, or four. Boss encounters have a number of mechanics, all of which would need to be reworked (or the fights changed COMPLETELY) just so a player could be able to run it solo.

 

Sorry for being harsh here, but I feel like this is coming from some idea that "Every single activity in the game should be accessible to ME, dammit!" It just seems greedy, considering how this game is one of the most solo-friendly MMOs ever produced. The sheer amount of activity you can do in this game that doesn't require you to group with another player is pretty remarkable.

 

Of course it would be silly to expect everything in the game to require a group. But what's wrong with SOME things requiring a group?

 

I have a simple solution to this that would require lest Development than a Raid. Copy and paste the cut-scenes not that hard, and then make a solo instance that doesn't even have to be big as the op! it can even be as small as some of the "Class Story instances" and a lot more of those are copy paste looking as well. add a view throw away mobs and 2 Silver's one gold and Then the boss. Bam! Story lover get the story content and OPS people get there OPS. Development time is spent on the OPS and its Quality and the only Quality that us Story people need is the Quality of Story. Make a Solo loot system keep the OPS LOOT BETTER STAT wise. That's not greedy at all in fact if you look at it Groupers are greedy without even trying! They can Group for everything if they want to including from the beginning. Groupers get to experience EVERYTHING! how is this fair how does that not seem Greedy? just cause you don't want everything it's because you already have everything. My viewpoint is reasonable You pay money for Group content. I pay money for Group content.. And I WANT my money to go to group content for you and your ilk! But I want some of our money to go to some guy who will just copy paste things over for solo content. I would even like them to take some time to develop a mechanic to turn SOLO mode stuff into our companions and get rid of our Jesus Droid. But Baby Steps

Edited August 27, 2015 by Xedry

[Khevar]

I have a simple solution to this that would require lest Development than a Raid. Copy and paste the cut-scenes not that hard, and then make a solo instance that doesn't even have to be big as the op it can ever be as small as some of the Class Story instances" and a lot more of those are copy paste looking as well. add a view throw away mobs and Silver's one gold and Then the boss. Bam! Story goes get the story contend and OPS people get there OPS. Development time is spent on the OPS and its Quality and the only Quality that us Story people need is the Qaulity of Story. Make a Solo loot system keep the OPS LOOT BETTER STAT wise.

Eh. It's not like there's much in the way of cutscenes. Most are a "reveal" -- here's what the next boss looks like. I guess some bosses do monologing.

 

Even so, you're oversimplifying this magical idea of "copy-and-paste". Heck all NM ops start with a copy-and-paste, followed by some bumped stats and some additional mechanics. And that took the devs a SUPER LONG time for each one.

 

If the ONLY thing you want is the cutscenes, some players have posted them on youtube. But if you want the package deal including environment, the ambiance, and your own character visible in the cutscene, I'm pretty sure it would require a bit more than just "copy-and-paste".

 

But you didn't address my other point. What's wrong with SOME content requiring a group?

 

Operations are but a small part of the available content in a game that is mostly completely soloable.

That's not greedy at all in fact if you look at it Groupers are greedy without even trying! They can Group for everything if they want to including from the beginning. Groupers get to experience EVERYTHING!

Funny thing you mention this. It's not actually accurate. A while back I leveled a new toon with a friend. We were unable to participate in class-quest conversations. It actually made for an awkward experience. One of us would be stuck sitting there looking at the "busy" icon floating over the other toon.

 

In instanced areas (behind green walls) one can be a spectator, but for ship conversations and open-world conversations (of which there are many), it was definitively group UNFRIENDLY.

 

And these so-called 'GROUPERS' you speak of. You need to distinguish between people that like BOTH solo / group activity, and those that ONLY like group activity. The people who like both? Guess what, they do get to see more. But otherwise? Not so much.

 

One of my old raiding partners HATED leveling. Hate hate hate hate hated it. We started raiding on the opposite faction and he found himself in the position of either leveling another toon, or not being in the raid group. That guy is missing out on about 95% of the content this game has to offer.

Edit: The point of that last anecdote is that he would have much preferred that the game required a group of 4-8 just to level. He'd have had much more fun personally. But that would be silly, no? People that only like ONE type of activity don't get at much out of the game as those that like MULTIPLE types.

 

Personally, I enjoy solo activity. I enjoy group activity. But I I'm not good at PvP, I don't enjoy GSF, I don't enjoy Seeker/Macro missions. You don't see me on the forums campaigning for those activities to be altered to suit my own personal playstyle. Why? Because it's okay with me that there are parts of the game I don't play that others enjoy

Edited August 27, 2015 by Khevar

[Xedry]

Eh. It's not like there's much in the way of cutscenes. Most are a "reveal" -- here's what the next boss looks like. I guess some bosses do monologing.

 

Even so, you're oversimplifying this magical idea of "copy-and-paste". Heck all NM ops start with a copy-and-paste, followed by some bumped stats and some additional mechanics. And that took the devs a SUPER LONG time for each one.

 

If the ONLY thing you want is the cutscenes, some players have posted them on youtube. But if you want the package deal including environment, the ambiance, and your own character visible in the cutscene, I'm pretty sure it would require a bit more than just "copy-and-paste".

 

But you didn't address my other point. What's wrong with SOME content requiring a group?

 

Operations are but a small part of the available content in a game that is mostly completely soloable.

 

Funny thing you mention this. It's not actually accurate. A while back I leveled a new toon with a friend. We were unable to participate in class-quest conversations. It actually made for an awkward experience. One of us would be stuck sitting there looking at the "busy" icon floating over the other toon.

 

In instanced areas (behind green walls) one can be a spectator, but for ship conversations and open-world conversations (of which there are many), it was definitively group UNFRIENDLY.

 

And these so-called 'GROUPERS' you speak of. You need to distinguish between people that like BOTH solo / group activity, and those that ONLY like group activity. The people who like both? Guess what, they do get to see more. But otherwise? Not so much.

 

One of my old raiding partners HATED leveling. Hate hate hate hate hated it. We started raiding on the opposite faction and he found himself in the position of either leveling another toon, or not being in the raid group. That guy is missing out on about 95% of the content this game has to offer.

Edit: The point of that last anecdote is that he would have much preferred that the game required a group of 4-8 just to level. He'd have had much more fun personally. But that would be silly, no? People that only like ONE type of activity don't get at much out of the game as those that like MULTIPLE types.

 

Personally, I enjoy solo activity. I enjoy group activity. But I I'm not good at PvP, I don't enjoy GSF, I don't enjoy Seeker/Macro missions. You don't see me on the forums campaigning for those activities to be altered to suit my own personal playstyle. Why? Because it's okay with me that there are parts of the game I don't play that others enjoy

 

I like a lot of what you said but let me put something out, 1 the Development time most of that was probably the retooling, but then again we don't know exactly when they started developing the Nightmare raid... they may have finished it play tested it and then said lets sit on this and release it later we don't know. second all DON'T EVERY SUGGEST YOUTUBE VIDEO'S TO SOMEONE WHO CARES ABOUT STORY. sorry for the caps but I need emphasis. It is that persons Story not my story. That would be like someone coming to you and asking you to develop a character and you Build a Male body 3 Sith Warrior you put him in Reaver gear and he is a Patriotic Sith who goes for the better of the Empire and Chooses Natural to Dark side Options and you name him James.... they take your idea and we whisqe away to youtube. And we a Male Mirluka bodytype 4 In Dramatic Extrovert Armor Set, they Are Staunchly Against the Empire and undermining them with as many Lightside Choices as possible His name is Jamhalialiah.... tell me who would you feel after that?

[DomiSotto]

I think that the only op that can be 4-manned by regular mortals is the EV. The rest do need 8 to solve the puzzles, and, in L55 case - to pass the fights. Again, that’s for regular players that are not normally doing Ops, not the HM/NiM ready folks!

 

I am a terribad and I went into the end-game group content for the story. As much as I want the other folks who would not want to step over whatever holds them back to have an opportunity to see the story related by the Ops, I do not think it is possible to rework them for solo, while preserving each Op’s experience.

 

The Flashpoints do often tell the story in a sort of traditional cutscene way. But the Ops… no, not really.

 

Ravagers is a NOTABLE exception, because it tells a short story.

 

The rest of the ops do not really have the kind of a cohesive story-telling that takes you from a quest to quest. They are atmospheric, the environments and creatures are like NOTHING else in this game, with the fights that are truly epic and have tons and tons of going on.

 

Your characters are talked to, or commented on, rather than interact with the bosses. A lot of story is related through fighting. The names of the adds, the special abilities the boss use, the whole use of the environment to get through the fight, the puzzles – that’s all a story.

 

Companions have no place in the Ops, neither is your AC or even your status as a Hero.

 

In short, the Ops are truly Show, not Tell parts of the game. You do not follow the Op, you gotta live through it.

 

Who comes with you, the random strangers you feel acutely uncomfortable with; players who are head and shoulders above you so you feel like an insignificant rookie; or the folks you came to know after a few weeks – that’s all part of the Ops experience.

 

Before the Ops are scaled, guys, if you ahve any opportunity at all, consider going for it. It’s as good as it ever going to get for the rest of us. It might take a few runs of the same till the fog clears, but otherwise you might never see the floors fall from under you on SoA or take that leap of faith into the hoops of the platforms hanging up in the air on the Terror.

[Khevar]

... second all DON'T EVER SUGGEST YOUTUBE VIDEO'S TO SOMEONE WHO CARES ABOUT STORY. ..

Sorry about that. I wasn't trying to push any buttons.

 

Tell you what: I'll never suggest youtube videos again, if you're willing to accept that it's okay for some content to require a group.

 

Deal?

[Xedry]

I don't like PVP Either but PVP is it's own reward to most PVPer's they get a challenge to fight people and that challenge is what they love, some love the chaos pvp, I don't like GSF but I would like a GSF PVE mode like how we had the Star ship battle (but its railroaded) Now I kind of want to reset and I feel my last post came off aggressive. What I'm advocating is that What they do is give us all what they want. They can develop the OPS first, then do a Solo Story mode version, Followed by the HM then NIM that is a very fair way to look at it. Cause the Raiders get there content first. Story runners get there content second, followed by 2 more OPS Difficulty in fact the Story runner kinda gets the Shaft but I don't care. giving the best of both worlds to both OPS and Solo's is not a bad thing. Is it? am I wrong here?

[DomiSotto]

Solo mode will leave nothing to the solo player. It is at most a snap-shot of a boss and a few lines of text in each operation. Operations story-telling method is action-based, and you will get a less than mediocre experience, like the Revan's Solo fight is right now. It has nothing to do with the op it replaces.

[Xedry]

Don't get me wrong I can put and play most of the ops and I can get through them I'm over geared for it thanks to ZIOST but the point is I hate grouping I hate it with a passion of 10,000 exploding sons, I hate PVP only slightly more. The only time I actually like to group is with me and my best friend. And when we watched each others stories we didn't feel awkward we loved it and want to play our own version where we would play our own and differently. group content will always be there giving us solo content doesn't hurt anything. but not giving everyone what they want within reason is a going to hurt the game... when the people who don't group leave or the people who get tired of the Solo Whine leave... who will then pay for our entertainment?

[Xedry]

Solo mode will leave nothing to the solo player. It is at most a snap-shot of a boss and a few lines of text in each operation. Operations story-telling method is action-based, and you will get a less than mediocre experience, like the Revan's Solo fight is right now. It has nothing to do with the op it replaces.

 

still more than we normally get

[Deluxe_]

but not giving everyone what they want within reason is a going to hurt the game... when the people who don't group leave or the people who get tired of the Solo Whine leave... who will then pay for our entertainment?

 

That's the problem here: it's pretty clear that Bioware has very limited resources, and when resources are so scarce compromises have to be made. Right now it seems that rescaling old content is such a huge and monumental endavour that they're not developing new operations or any other group content whatsoever. Asking them to create new operations and then developing a solo version of those same fights doesn't sound reasonable when you consider that, and even worse, it would require resources that could be used to continue pumping new content instead.

[Xedry]

Khevar I apologize for how aggressive I got with you, I don't like to lose my cool. I love story and Customization more than anything in games. It's one reason why I like Saints Row over Grand Theft Auto. I like KOTOR better than The Star Wars Movies. I like the movies and made me somewhat interested in Star wars, But KOTOR got me into star wars and the Expanded universe. My passions ran deep and I feel I lost my cool and I feel like I attacked you, at the very least I lashed out. I don't want to be that guy lol. I ran a few ops last week with a group they were hard mode cause they asked me to and I was in the Area. Eternity Vault, Krag's Palace and another one I can't remember. I had no fun doing it, I was with a group and that put me off, but I wanted to see what the fuss was about. The only thing I enjoyed was the tidbits of story, the very little Cut scenes. I died twice out of the 3 I was over Gear but new no tactics and honestly If I want tactics I'll go play XCOM. I'm not a social person IRL and even less so in the game. I know I sound greedy for wanting a Solo version of OPS but I don't think I am. I want there to be OPS I want there to be PVP I hate both but I know they aren't for me! But others like them. I don't want OPS gear for not doing OPS I'd like the styles (as I call them) empty or gear for solo. I will forever pass on Decorations cause I don't care, but that one person who really wants that for their stronghold will be WOOO! I'm not blind or greedy, I know others want things. But I just want my Character Xedry Satsui to be able to go through every inch of story in this game. That isn't greed that is my passion story. I do care about looks and I grind Dailes to save up for stuff I want to buy... when I got a Revan Chest peice and legs, someone was looking for them I just gave them to them, No credit exchange. my Nihlus mask I sold for 100,000 credits cause everyone should be able to afford it. I don't know if it actually went to someone who wanted it or just someone grabbed and put it back up higher. Life isn't fair, neither is this game in certain aspects, but I'd like it to be fair. I want everyone to be happy but I know it's not possible. But one thing I'll never get is that some people are absolutely P.O.ed that we are getting solo modes on things. And all I can think is why do you care? I was never going to Group with you to begin with? and I don't know your tactics and I'll never care to learn. If this keeps us segregated in a positive way should you be happy? I guess that's my 2 cents

[Xedry]

That's the problem here: it's pretty clear that Bioware has very limited resources, and when resources are so scarce compromises have to be made. Right now it seems that rescaling old content is such a huge and monumental endavour that they're not developing new operations or any other group content whatsoever. Asking them to create new operations and then developing a solo version of those same fights doesn't sound reasonable when you consider that, and even worse, it would require resources that could be used to continue pumping new content instead.

 

did you ever think that the reason they are doing this is cause they are seeing that the Majority of people are solo? So possibly the may be risking loosing us Subscribers? You know I have the founder Title right? I avoid grouping like the plague. and I'm a subscriber. If you look at my achievement I have 3 OPS achievement everything else group achievement wise i got solo

Edited August 28, 2015 by Xedry

[Xedry]

It's a balance isn't it? It should go in this order I believe. OPS get content, Followed by Story Version, Followed by PVP ground, Followed by GSF, followed by OPS... etc... Here is the thing yes they are limited yes there has to be compromise, but you can't expect them to just dish out OPS after OPS after OPS and not give other content a look. But they aren't just retooling old content... they also developing new content to go with that. I agree that honestly they shouldn't retool the OPS to make them Viable at 65. I don't group so I don't care if I can GF the ops that are dead to me I think that is a mistake, Cause if you don't group your not going to do the viable old ops now, and OPS runners already are already over it. It makes no sense to me either. I also think it'd be fun if they found a way to make certain solo stuff OPS Level that would be neat. lol I agree we need new ops even though I won't do them but we also would like SOLO versions

[Deluxe_]

did you ever think that the reason they are doing this is cause they are seeing that the Majority of people are solo? So possibly the may be risking loosing us Subscribers? You know I have the founder Title right? I avoid grouping like the plague. and I'm a subscriber. If you look at my achievement I have 3 OPS achievement everything else group achievement wise i got solo

 

I think that they're playing a balancing act, trying to please all or most of their costumers so they remain as such, as any sensible company would do.

 

With very limited resources there's only so much they can do for each type of player, and that means not putting all your eggs in the same basket. It's clear from their current approach to PVP and PVE (making it easier and more attractive to queue and rescaling old content respectively) that they're throwing everybody a bone and hope that's enough to keep a sizeable portion of that population happy. What they can't do is tip the balance way too much towards a single playstyle: that way instead of having a large population of PVPers, PVErs and solo players mildly displeased at not having everything they want, they'll only have a happier solo players costumer base, but a smaller one at that.

Edited August 28, 2015 by Deluxe_

[Xedry]

They seem to be catering a lot to SOLO play, and maybe OPS is too hard to do SOLO I would admit that, but If they could allow me to go through cut scenes with my character, and hand me an empty Set of Orange gear from the respective op that I have to mod to make viable. I would be happy enough. I want the story, and to look good lol not hard to do. look how they Prelude to Revan, but i know some people would be bored with my compromise

[Khevar]

Khevar I apologize for how aggressive I got with you, I don't like to lose my cool. I love story and Customization more than anything in games. It's one reason why I like Saints Row over Grand Theft Auto. I like KOTOR better than The Star Wars Movies. I like the movies and made me somewhat interested in Star wars, But KOTOR got me into star wars and the Expanded universe.

Hey, no worries!

 

I'd rather debate with someone passionate about this game that someone who couldn't care less.

 

[DomiSotto]

I want the story, and to look good lol not hard to do. look how they Prelude to Revan, but i know some people would be bored with my compromise

 

Right now is a very narrow window of opportunity when all but 2 Operations are neither hard to find a group for, nor hard to do. I fully understand your reluctance to try something new, but you are locking yourself out more and more by repeating 'hard'. If you truly want to see the content, it is right now open to a new player like never before and it won't be again after October 27.

 

As for Forged Alliances, each of those Flashpoints have about 4 to 6 times more cutscene time than the ops, and actually drop a better loot than the flashpoints in the HM in terms of adaptable gear.

Edited August 28, 2015 by DomiSotto

[benficakungfu]

did you ever think that the reason they are doing this is cause they are seeing that the Majority of people are solo? So possibly the may be risking loosing us Subscribers? You know I have the founder Title right? I avoid grouping like the plague. and I'm a subscriber. If you look at my achievement I have 3 OPS achievement everything else group achievement wise i got solo

 

Im sorry the only thing you demonstrate is neurotic behavior.

Edited August 28, 2015 by benficakungfu

[CaraExas]

did you ever think that the reason they are doing this is cause they are seeing that the Majority of people are solo? So possibly the may be risking loosing us Subscribers? You know I have the founder Title right? I avoid grouping like the plague. and I'm a subscriber. If you look at my achievement I have 3 OPS achievement everything else group achievement wise i got solo

 

HEY GUYS< RAIDERS/PVPERS AINT ****< YOU ARENT FOUNDERS LIKE US COOL SOLO PLAYERS HEUHEUEHEUHEUHEUEHEUEHUEHEUHE ALSO< YOU DONT SUBSRKIBE LIKE US< WE SHOULD GET THE SAME STUFFS AS YOU WITHOUT ANY OF THE EFFORT.

 

 

yeah...thats how you are coming across.

 

also, yes a majority of players are "solo players". but they are usually f2p, who dont make it past lvl 20 before they quit the game.

Edited August 28, 2015 by CaraExas