Solo Players punished with Operations?

[LudhaninRolgge]

I don't see how raiders wouldn't see that as a benefit. You'd get slightly more competent people joining your groups that will have a little more confidence and awareness of the Op, instead of subjecting them (and yourselves) to constant facepalming and frustration of newbs/noobs messing up your Op runs.

 

Because raiding is the accomplishment of all our work. We do FP over and over again just for a single enhancement(that's why you have people asking for spacebar after they've waited for the 25th time in the same cutscene), we spend nights wiping on the same boss . And yeah, most raiders don't care about story, but for the one who does, it's nice to feel that all the work you've done for gearing, all the wipes on the bosses have finally paid off. It's our little thing. And you just want BW to make a faceroll soloable ops with a GSI god droid ? How would that be beneficial for raiders ? I can go afk when doing boss fights in forged alliance. You have that GSI droid saving you all the time. You were an idiot, stood in an aoe for 2' and you're nearly dead ? Take that 50k heal. You don't know where to position yourself so you end up in front of the boss and take a cleave in the face ? Let me guard you the second before so that you take almost no damage. I'm sorry to tell you that, but the GSI droid did more harm that good. You probably haven't run HM FP or a minimal amount of them. I can assure you that the number of people who don't know what they're doing even if they claimed to know the FP because they finished it in solo in huge. The droid is not the only reason for that, 12x XP has a part of responsability, but 12x XP can't made responsible for people not doing the mechanics.

 

And since you want to play all alone by yourself, why the **** do you play an MMO ?! And most importantly, why do you complain when the game do something as it's supposed to do ?! You wouldn't complain because you can't see your character in a FPS, would you ?

Edited July 27, 2015 by LudhaninRolgge

[aerockyul]

Because raiding is the accomplishment of all our work. We do FP over and over again just for a single enhancement(that's why you have people asking for spacebar after they've waited for the 25th time in the same cutscene), we spend nights wiping on the same boss . And yeah, most raiders don't care about story, but for the one who does, it's nice to feel that all the work you've done for gearing, all the wipes on the bosses have finally paid off. It's our little thing. And you just want BW to make a faceroll soloable ops with a GSI god droid ? How would that be beneficial for raiders ? I can go afk when doing boss fights in forged alliance. You have that GSI droid saving you all the time. You were an idiot, stood in an aoe for 2' and you're nearly dead ? Take that 50k heal. You don't know where to position yourself so you end up in front of the boss and take a cleave in the face ? Let me guard you the second before so that you take almost no damage. I'm sorry to tell you that, but the GSI droid did more harm that good. You probably haven't run HM FP or a minimal amount of them. I can assure you that the number of people who don't know what they're doing even if they claimed to know the FP because they finished it in solo in huge. The droid is not the only reason for that, 12x XP has a part of responsability, but 12x XP can't made responsible for people not doing the mechanics.

 

And since you want to play all alone by yourself, why the **** do you play an MMO ?! And most importantly, why do you complain when the game do something as it's supposed to do ?! You wouldn't complain because you can't see your character in a FPS, would you ?

 

I'm not constantly running the FPs with the droid--I run it once for the story, then run it in real groups to get gear, coms, credits, etc. etc. Still being social, still participating in the MMO aspect of the game (I pvp occasionally, too, through bouts of frustration at the many problems pvp has). I would just like to be anti-social that one time, just like with the droid (which I find annoying, too). You can take every reward away from it, I'm fine with that. Don't even need to run the actual Op, many raiders in this thread who understand how solo players feel about gated content have posited an alternate route to the ending of story arcs, instead of having to force solo players through your gated community

[GRIM_REAPER_Xdc]

This seems to be a common issue with Group Finder operations, no body does them, My highest recommendations can be categorized as follows

 

1. Find a guild to run these with. It will make the greed factor much lower if you know the people you are running with

2. Bring along someone who knows these operations and has run them several times, it will help things along

3.

 

More of a question for 3. Which Server are you on?? I'd be willing to help pull you though SM operations free of charge. If you were on the same server though

[LudhaninRolgge]

I would just like to be anti-social that one time

 

See, that's the point I don't understand. First of all, the cutscenes you see in ops are just bosses bragging about them killing us and how we we're going to die, no interaction whatsoever. The only interaction you get is through the story quest you can give back by yourself after you're finished. What on earth stops you from taking the quest, enjoying the story, pugging the ops then turning the quest back by yourself ? I don't get that point. I mean, I play on a kinda low populated server, but I could run every ops I want when it's its day on the GF. There's always people wanting to do those ops for comms or even for conquest points. But what mostly irritates me is that you're complainig about an aspect of the game you knew when you started playing. You can only blame yourself. As I said earlier, would you complain on the forums of a FPS because you can't see your character ? Even if you were stupid enough to do it, people would laugh at you and tell you to play something else if you don't like this type of games.

[Shayddow]

All current content for story is solo friendly[/unquote]

 

Not altogether. I too mainly play solo, being as I like to take my time and see the story content in things. I also like to get all the "lore" entries for planets, content as you go.

 

If you do the "depths of manaan" solo-mode, it never lets you get the LORE entry for "Kolto." This isn't like a group drop thing, its a Lore thing - and as such should show up in solo mode - but doesn't.

You also can't get all the Lore entries for Rishi without doing the ops "the ravagers".

 

So, its not just a question of loot. Its lore as well that is behind that iron curtain of "operations only".

[Kulyok]

I want a solo op with a god boss droid! Yesterday, ten or fifteen wipes on the Underlurker, got him to 1%, still no go. Folks, this is a story mode op, I want to finish it once - equipment-wise, yes, I certainly wouldn't mind one more token for my set, but just _finishing it once_, hearing the lines and seeing the scenes would be enough for me.

 

But I can't. Even though I've done the "normal" steps of gearing to 192 augmented, joining a guild, buying mic+phones for TS. I've followed the tactics to the letter(crest, stone, falling rocks, adds, burning boss) and I was doing my rotation to the best of my ability, but we still couldn't beat the Underlurker with five people decently geared and two people geared a bit worse than me(186+bolster). I've spent six hours there - I don't regret it, but it was hard.

 

Maybe I'm just not good enough. Maybe if I was doing my rotation better and had six set pieces and the rest 198's and the rest were geared as well, I'd have done better, but I didn't. But this is a story mode op, and this wasn't solo, and I've gone to significant length to get geared, including buying a 192 barrel/getting a 198 offhand.

 

I think there's seriously something wrong with some story mode ops now, and, yeah, they either need to be a faceroll for new users or we need a solo mode with no rewards.

[AlrikFassbauer]

I think there's seriously something wrong with some story mode ops now,

 

I fear there isn't. I fear that these OPs are made for those who are beating them right now - exactly THAT target group.

 

Bioware just doesn't want the majority of people to beat these OPs (which is what I'm thinking right now).

[Nieyko]

I want a solo op with a god boss droid! Yesterday, ten or fifteen wipes on the Underlurker, got him to 1%, still no go. Folks, this is a story mode op, I want to finish it once - equipment-wise, yes, I certainly wouldn't mind one more token for my set, but just _finishing it once_, hearing the lines and seeing the scenes would be enough for me.

 

But I can't. Even though I've done the "normal" steps of gearing to 192 augmented, joining a guild, buying mic+phones for TS. I've followed the tactics to the letter(crest, stone, falling rocks, adds, burning boss) and I was doing my rotation to the best of my ability, but we still couldn't beat the Underlurker with five people decently geared and two people geared a bit worse than me(186+bolster). I've spent six hours there - I don't regret it, but it was hard.

 

Maybe I'm just not good enough. Maybe if I was doing my rotation better and had six set pieces and the rest 198's and the rest were geared as well, I'd have done better, but I didn't. But this is a story mode op, and this wasn't solo, and I've gone to significant length to get geared, including buying a 192 barrel/getting a 198 offhand.

 

I think there's seriously something wrong with some story mode ops now, and, yeah, they either need to be a faceroll for new users or we need a solo mode with no rewards.

 

Take this as constructive criticism, as I mean no disrespect. I'm not trying to be rude, but if people are still having trouble with this boss this late into the expansion, there's nothing Bioware can or should do about it. These people need to play better.

 

I don't want to just leave you with that, as that doesn't really offer you a clear solution. So here is the solution to your problem. Work on your rotation on the raid target dummy. Get a parse application (Parsec/Torparse/etc.) so you can track what you are doing right and what you are doing wrong. Look up guides (some of the class forums have decent ones, Dulfy has good ones too). Talk to players who you think might be better than you. Pick their brains for tips and tricks. Run with a group, preferably a guild run, that has competent players who, like you, also actually want to contribute to the downing of the boss (A lot of times in group finder, half the team just wants to be carried).

 

This boss was very difficult when the expansion first came out. I fully admit that. There were a lot of people complaining on the forums and I couldn't really blame them. But with the gear we have access to now (not to mention the nerfs to this boss fight in particular) there is no reason for a full raid team to wipe.

 

To put it into perspective, here's a group that is 4-manning this supposedly too hard boss:

[Kragorogark]

I want a solo op with a god boss droid! Yesterday, ten or fifteen wipes on the Underlurker, got him to 1%, still no go. Folks, this is a story mode op, I want to finish it once - equipment-wise, yes, I certainly wouldn't mind one more token for my set, but just _finishing it once_, hearing the lines and seeing the scenes would be enough for me.

 

But I can't. Even though I've done the "normal" steps of gearing to 192 augmented, joining a guild, buying mic+phones for TS. I've followed the tactics to the letter(crest, stone, falling rocks, adds, burning boss) and I was doing my rotation to the best of my ability, but we still couldn't beat the Underlurker with five people decently geared and two people geared a bit worse than me(186+bolster). I've spent six hours there - I don't regret it, but it was hard.

 

Maybe I'm just not good enough. Maybe if I was doing my rotation better and had six set pieces and the rest 198's and the rest were geared as well, I'd have done better, but I didn't. But this is a story mode op, and this wasn't solo, and I've gone to significant length to get geared, including buying a 192 barrel/getting a 198 offhand.

 

I think there's seriously something wrong with some story mode ops now, and, yeah, they either need to be a faceroll for new users or we need a solo mode with no rewards.

 

If this was a guild run, after about the 4th try you should all take a break and actually talk about what is going on and why you might be struggling. It's usually one or more of the following:

1. Mechanics not being implemented correctly, this included people standing in stuff they are not suppose to, thus stressing the healers.

2. Class mechanics, tanks not using defensive cooldowns, dps and healers not using their buffs, etc.

3. Class rotation not correct.

4. Miscommunication.

5. And gear. For my guild, we didn't even enter that raid until our tanks and healers had at least 4 piece set bonuses from ravagers. Our dps all had a minimum of 192. And it should go without saying, every piece was augmented.

 

No clue what your group's problems was, but really, no one who wants to do that raid should have 186 gear. (Though I am sure there have been hard core raiders who have...) Why didn't they have at least Ziost level gear? Was their gear augmented? Was their accuracy capped? (That's huge for dps).

 

Some things in a game SHOULD require strategy, challenge, co-ordination, and skill. And there should be nothing wrong with rewarding those efforts.

Not to sound like a jerk, but it really sounds like a lot of people in this thread want the reward for doing challenging content without the challenge. To me, if you take away the challenge, the reward (be it gear, mounts, cut scenes, titles, lore, etc.) becomes meaningless.

[LudhaninRolgge]

I want a solo op with a god boss droid! Yesterday, ten or fifteen wipes on the Underlurker, got him to 1%, still no go. Folks, this is a story mode op, I want to finish it once - equipment-wise, yes, I certainly wouldn't mind one more token for my set, but just _finishing it once_, hearing the lines and seeing the scenes would be enough for me.

 

But I can't. Even though I've done the "normal" steps of gearing to 192 augmented, joining a guild, buying mic+phones for TS. I've followed the tactics to the letter(crest, stone, falling rocks, adds, burning boss) and I was doing my rotation to the best of my ability, but we still couldn't beat the Underlurker with five people decently geared and two people geared a bit worse than me(186+bolster). I've spent six hours there - I don't regret it, but it was hard.

 

Maybe I'm just not good enough. Maybe if I was doing my rotation better and had six set pieces and the rest 198's and the rest were geared as well, I'd have done better, but I didn't. But this is a story mode op, and this wasn't solo, and I've gone to significant length to get geared, including buying a 192 barrel/getting a 198 offhand.

 

I think there's seriously something wrong with some story mode ops now, and, yeah, they either need to be a faceroll for new users or we need a solo mode with no rewards.

 

Progression raiding doesn't come in one night. You have to practice the boss AND the group you're playing with. If it was a guild run, you need to communicate and know each other. You can't hope to down a boss on the 1st encounter (it happens sometimes, but is more often due to luck than anything else). Keep practicing, wiping is good, you'll know the boss more and more.

[Sudo]

Progression raiding doesn't come in one night. You have to practice the boss AND the group you're playing with. If it was a guild run, you need to communicate and know each other. You can't hope to down a boss on the 1st encounter (it happens sometimes, but is more often due to luck than anything else). Keep practicing, wiping is good, you'll know the boss more and more.

 

And keep in mind the term 'progression' varies on the people/group/guild. Don't let the elitist mentality say otherwise.

 

But he's got it right, and key.....the group you're playing with. If you're swapping people out from week to week, your team's progression most likely takes a step back due to the fact you're not familiar with them, and they with you.

 

Typically better raiders are those who understand class mechanics outside of their own, can do their rotations with relative ease (meaning not thinking or looking at things), so then can stay aware of the mechanics, because that's typically what PVE is, a scripted mechanic you need to dance to.

 

But not everyone is gifted at dancing, and requires a lot of practice...even if it's not bleeding edge content, and that's perfectly ok.. just keep at it.

[Darth_Advent]

I'm really only interested in running ops to finish the story arc and see my characters in the cutscenes and hear all of the possible dialogue choices. The dedicated raiders can keep their gear treadmill autism.

[FerkWork]

I'm really only interested in running ops to finish the story arc and see my characters in the cutscenes and hear all of the possible dialogue choices. The dedicated raiders can keep their gear treadmill autism.

 

Wow what a nice person you are. Go watch it on YouTube if you want to see the story.

Edited July 31, 2015 by FerkWork

[DNGDangerous]

I would love it if they had a solo story version that had no loot drops. Maybe daily com rewards would be ok (but nothing is fine too). But I think it would be nice to sit back and play the OP for story; going at your own speed. Sometimes you just want to emerse your self in the story, without having to worry about the rest of the groups expected rate of speed.

[Darth_Advent]

Wow what a nice person you are.

Meh, you'll live. I've certainly had to deal with folk who use terms like "bad" without irony treating me with less than the bog standard for courtesy, so I'm sure you can learn to deal with as good as you give.

Go watch it on YouTube if you want to see the story.

No. First of all you don't get to tell me what to do. Secondly, not good enough. I pay the same sub as the rest in a game that hawks story as its strongest pillar, and I want to see how my characters look in all of the possible dialogue branches. Not always possible or efficient with YouTube.

[thewitchdoctor]

... so I'm sure you can learn to deal with as good as you give.

 

So you attribute all the hurt feelings you've accumulated onto someone who chances are has never played with you in this or any other MMO? Or was this your excuse to flex your interweb muscle?

Edited July 31, 2015 by thewitchdoctor

[LudhaninRolgge]

No. First of all you don't get to tell me what to do. Secondly, not good enough. I pay the same sub as the rest in a game that hawks story as its strongest pillar, and I want to see how my characters look in all of the possible dialogue branches. Not always possible or efficient with YouTube.

 

Jeez ! How many time should people have to say the same thing over and over again in order for other people to understand ? You don't have dialogue options in an op. The best you have is a boss bragging about how he'll kill you or your character turning a switch on.

[Kulyok]

Jeez ! How many time should people have to say the same thing over and over again in order for other people to understand ? You don't have dialogue options in an op. The best you have is a boss bragging about how he'll kill you or your character turning a switch on.

 

Story doesn't necessarily mean dialogue options. It's the mood, the look, the voices in the background, the feel of it all.

 

I haven't played a single warzone in two years, because there's absolutely no story component there. Not so in the Dread Fortress. Not so when hunting Soa or trying to get to Revan. Sure, it's not as heavily story-ridden as, say, Maelstorm prison, but it's there.

[DomiSotto]

I agree with Kulyok - Ops are incredibly atmospheric. Some landscapes are not to be missed, and the fight subplots are enjoyable. How the enemies are named, the abilities they cast, and sometimes a masterful short dialogue on the background are certainly a part of the ops, and showcase Bio's sense of humor much better than most levelling fights.

 

The dialogue and characters in the Ravagers makes for one makes for an amusing short story. I can see that the team was having a lot of fun with the setting and it shines. Tbh, Ravagers is my favorite bit of the whole Rishi-Yavin-Ziost expansion.

 

I make myself to go and pug an op because I want to see it. Overall, I always feel like I am being judged, and since I am very self-conscious about my lack of gaming talent, it is not pleasant in terms of playing with other people. But the content itself is fun!

[LudhaninRolgge]

I've got that question coming to my minde over and over again. Why do you play an MMO if you don't like group content ?

[ScarletBlaze]

I've got that question coming to my minde over and over again. Why do you play an MMO if you don't like group content ?

 

Maybe it is not group content they don't like but the ones they have to group with. There are some people that can make an operation or even a flashpoint very unenjoyable because of various things

(1) Racing through

(2) Yelling that you didn't do something right-When you actually told them it is your first time

[FerkWork]

I agree with Kulyok - Ops are incredibly atmospheric. Some landscapes are not to be missed, and the fight subplots are enjoyable. How the enemies are named, the abilities they cast, and sometimes a masterful short dialogue on the background are certainly a part of the ops, and showcase Bio's sense of humor much better than most levelling fights.

 

The dialogue and characters in the Ravagers makes for one makes for an amusing short story. I can see that the team was having a lot of fun with the setting and it shines. Tbh, Ravagers is my favorite bit of the whole Rishi-Yavin-Ziost expansion.

 

I make myself to go and pug an op because I want to see it. Overall, I always feel like I am being judged, and since I am very self-conscious about my lack of gaming talent, it is not pleasant in terms of playing with other people. But the content itself is fun!

 

Just like real life, most people are focusing on themselves and their ability to perform well. Ironically, I think it's more so the further skilled the players are the more self conscious they become as the margin of acceptable mistakes becomes much shorter due. I consider myself a good player, but as a self conscious person as well I'm try my best not to think about these things. On a side note: I only consider players bad if they are not actively trying, blaming others all the time, not listening to any advice, come very ill equipped and are just general hypoctitical aholes to others. Those who try and are good team players I will stick it out especially if it's guilds new to harder content. I've had time better times wiping on bosses with a fun group and teaching the strats if asked than farming a boss with aholes.

 

Also, I love the scenery of the Ops, and MB is hilarious.

[FerkWork]

Maybe it is not group content they don't like but the ones they have to group with. There are some people that can make an operation or even a flashpoint very unenjoyable because of various things

(1) Racing through

(2) Yelling that you didn't do something right-When you actually told them it is your first time

 

1) If they want to race they can get reckt by some trash *cough* ToS aka Trash takes longer than bosses to kill

 

2) If it's someone first time I usually explain all the mechanics relevant to them and try not to overload. As for the yelling and they are new, I will tell the teller to be quiet and it's fine. At that point they can be quiet or pick a fight with a person who has more chievios, better gear than them and knows the fights much better in all modes. Usually they remain quiet

Edited August 1, 2015 by FerkWork

[AlrikFassbauer]

Maybe it is not group content they don't like but the ones they have to group with. There are some people that can make an operation or even a flashpoint very unenjoyable because of various things

(1) Racing through

(2) Yelling that you didn't do something right-When you actually told them it is your first time

 

I had the first case once. Totally ruined my Oricon story for me, because to THEM it was just merely dailies they were doing - but for ME it was the very first time there !

 

I mean - I'm a story-player at heart. And THEN I group together with people who were forcefully rushing through everything so that I just couldn't enjoy the story ??? Well, it was my own mistake, I must admit. The only redeeming thing was that a very good friend was in the same group. I think at least she noticed how bad this experience was for me. The friendship suffered a tiny bit, but months later it was back at normal again.

Edited August 1, 2015 by AlrikFassbauer

[DomiSotto]

Ah, you level to 60, Alrick, and maybe we can manage to put together a slow run for a L50, before the meta changes. I think EV/KP can be easily handled with 4 folks right now, even if we are in 190 or PvP bonus sets.