Solo Players punished with Operations?

[Grayseven]

Ah, you level to 60, Alrick, and maybe we can manage to put together a slow run for a L50, before the meta changes. I think EV/KP can be easily handled with 4 folks right now, even if we are in 190 or PvP bonus sets.

 

You can 4 man any of the 50's in crafted 186 gear.

 

We have run 8 man groups through the classics without gear using the punch abilities...

[DomiSotto]

Oh, we do not have 8, we only have 4

[AlrikFassbauer]

My two level 60 characters are on Vanjervalis Chain.

 

You can 4 man any of the 50's in crafted 186 gear.

 

Yes, I did that as well. Eternal Chamber and KJaragga are manageable in 8man even in Nightmare Mode ( I think it was Nightmare Mode).

Edited August 2, 2015 by AlrikFassbauer

[DomiSotto]

Oh, yeah, it's doable on NiM. I did KP on NiM with 2 people from puzzle on, because other two dc'd and afk. Took us forever to do the puzzle, but otherwise, np. Granted the second person who pretended to be a tank was one of those awesome raiders.... Basically EV and KP NiM can be easily done with an incomplete group on 60, and I only did EC NiM with a group of 7, but they knew what they were doing.

[Lord_Robert]

I'm not sure if Solo Ops will ever become a thing, though judging from Bws recent refocus on story, I wouldn't be surprised.. And I would love it..

 

However, what could more easily happen is Tactical Ops, where the need for mechanical knowledge is far less than even Sm Ops.. Why? To let soloers and casuals (like myself) enjoy the story (to a certain degree) without having to change the mechanics of the fights that much..

 

My absolute dream-scenario would be something else entirely though.. A parallel series of solo-quests, where you act as the scout/spy/something of the ops group and "prepare the way", shutting out alarms and what not for them..

They could tweak the camera-angles on the cinematics some, so that you got to watch them "from your hiding place", as the "ops group" started battling the bosses. Then you would continue on your own mission, without watching the fight itself.. You could then watch the end-fight cinematic on the "security monitor" before reaching the next stage on your quest. This would tie the solo-player and the Ops-players together in a, to me, far more satisfying way than anything else.

 

This would be an interesting new take on how to let soloers experience the cutscenes, story and so on, without diminishing the Ops... Will it get implemented? Sadly, that is unlikely, as it requires resources.. But it is something I hope to one day see a game do right.

 

-----

 

As for the "Why play a MMO, if you want to solo?"-crowd, then please consider BW's current refocus on soloable story-content.. They would not go that way, unless a very significant part of their playerbase (and thus income-base) was the casual/solo player. Thus TOR is not so much a MMO (as we knew them in the 'old days') and more like an Online RPG, with interactive parts, something which I believe we'll see (even) more companies try for in the future.. (It's a way to generate continuous income and prevent piracy.)

 

Is this positive to those players, who prefer MMOs to be traditionally multiplayer-oriented? Perhaps not. But seeing as Hardcore MMOs these days do not seem to succeed as easily as they did before, if at all, I'd say that the majority of online players today are more casual or solo-oriented.. And the various ways games are changed/developed seem to support that theory...

 

I'd even go so far as to venture that just because a game is labeled MMO these days, do not necessarily make them so... It has simply become the term by which they are known. Even if the game is more like an Online RPG.

 

I do believe there is and/or should be, room for both the MMO- and MSO-player in TOR and other similar games. And I believe that any game that successfully manages to satisfy both player-groups will be the "Online Game of Tomorrow"...

 

Anyhow, that was a serious sidetrack... I apologize.

 

---

 

Oh and about loot.

 

I wholeheartedly support the idea of letting solo-players get the equipment-models of ops-gear without having to do the ops in anything but a tactical way. The models, that is, not the mods. And just like with HM/NiM gear, the color-scheme and so forth could/should be different. And solo-players should not get the Achievement/titles either..

 

This way, solo-players would not have to forego that "special piece", that would finish off their costume-design just right or have to live without the basic model of a mount or some such. Yet at the same time, they would not get the ilvl of those players, who "made the effort", nor the exact same colored versions of any given mount/gear-piece.

EDIT: Let it be something bought with tokens/comms for a high price, thus something the soloer could work towards, while the OPS-player could get the ops-version in one go, if lucky... and again, not the actual mods, just the model.

 

 

I'd say that was a compromise that would make room for everybody.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Lord_Robert

[dbears]

I've got that question coming to my minde over and over again. Why do you play an MMO if you don't like group content ?

 

Because it can be an MMO and still have content people will enjoy eventhough they would prefer to not play an MMO?

 

I love group content. I was part of 2 different sixteen man and 1 eight man raid groups. I'm not going to shove it in peoples faces and ask them stupid questions like yours though.

 

Bioware boasts this game as story driven. Like 90% of the game while leveling up is solo (FPs and H2/H4s aside). They've introduced a handful of solo FPs already. If they really want to make everyone happy, they'll expand on that and find a way to make all the Operations soloable. Whether that's feasible or not is another question though.

 

There are a lot of mechanics in the fights that's can't be done solo or even with the Jesus Droid unless they spend a fair amount of resources (which they don't have) and rework those mechanics in those fights.

 

Specific examples off the top of my head:

Minefield in EC (spawning droid/killing droid, defusing, etc.)

Pylons in EV (running back and forth? Lol)

Council in EV (killing 8 by yourself)

SOA (mind traps)

Fabricator in KP (puzzle + position for fire)

Operator in TFB (disable shields + dpsing)

 

So it'll be quite a bit of work if it's something they implement.

[bdatt]

They just need to add a "skip the fighting and advance the story" button. Like they've added recently with the SOR prelude where you can skip talking to the droid and zone directly to manaan, as one example.

 

Make it flash "spoiler, you fought some bads then defeated Brontes" or something. Then you can click the wall panel and get ready to skip DP too.

[LudhaninRolgge]

Because it can be an MMO and still have content people will enjoy eventhough they would prefer to not play an MMO?

 

I love group content. I was part of 2 different sixteen man and 1 eight man raid groups. I'm not going to shove it in peoples faces and ask them stupid questions like yours though.

 

Bioware boasts this game as story driven. Like 90% of the game while leveling up is solo (FPs and H2/H4s aside). They've introduced a handful of solo FPs already. If they really want to make everyone happy, they'll expand on that and find a way to make all the Operations soloable. Whether that's feasible or not is another question though.

 

There are a lot of mechanics in the fights that's can't be done solo or even with the Jesus Droid unless they spend a fair amount of resources (which they don't have) and rework those mechanics in those fights.

 

Specific examples off the top of my head:

Minefield in EC (spawning droid/killing droid, defusing, etc.)

Pylons in EV (running back and forth? Lol)

Council in EV (killing 8 by yourself)

SOA (mind traps)

Fabricator in KP (puzzle + position for fire)

Operator in TFB (disable shields + dpsing)

 

So it'll be quite a bit of work if it's something they implement.

 

Even if your point is right, why complain because a game is doing what's it's intended ? As I stated earlier, nobody would ever complain because you can't see your character in a FPS. Asking solo ops is kinda the same thing.

[Yickun]

Even if your point is right, why complain because a game is doing what's it's intended ?

 

To adapt. When half of the players play this game solo, it is the smart thing as a business to satisfy them. Maybe originally the game was intended to play as a MMO. But the fact is there are probably more players who play this game solo than there are MMO players (or at least a large amount). And let's be honest, one of the main reasons they made this game a MMORPG rather than KOTOR 3 is because MMO's make a lot more money. But there are clearly more people who just want to play this game solo as if it's KOTOR 3. And BioWare knows this that's why they made 95% of the content to be solo-able which makes this game more of a RPG with MMO elements rather than a pure MMORPG.

 

Just because something was intended to function a certain way does not mean it cannot change. If things stay forever as they were first intended, then new inventions would never exist. Things evolve and grow because there's a demand. Sure if today there's only 5% people wanting to see Operations having a solo mode then that's not much demand to warrant a change. BioWare can just ignore it. But looking through the forums and all the previous threads, there is a significant demand for this all the way dating back to 2012. There have been many, many threads where people ask to be able to play Operations solo. And within those threads it's always half of the people agreeing and another half arguing against it. So it's not only a small minority of people wanting it. There is a significant demand. Of course that does not mean BioWare HAS to add this feature. But I think it would be a smart move considering how many people have been asking for it for years now. It will make A LOT of their fans happy.

 

As for your FPS comment, that's because there's no demand for it. If there's a large amount of Call of Duty fans (let's say 30%) wanting to see a 3rd person mode, wouldn't you say it'd be smart for them to add this feature? Or at least consider adding it? Of course it would. It all depends on if there is a demand or not.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Yickun

[Xedry]

Even if your point is right, why complain because a game is doing what's it's intended ? As I stated earlier, nobody would ever complain because you can't see your character in a FPS. Asking solo ops is kinda the same thing.

 

Actually I complain about FPS all the time cause I can't see my character its why I hate FPS it just lazy

[Xedry]

To adapt. When half of the players play this game solo, it is the smart thing as a business to satisfy them. Maybe originally the game was intended to play as a MMO. But the fact is there are probably more players who play this game solo than there are MMO players (or at least a large amount). And let's be honest, one of the main reasons they made this game a MMORPG rather than KOTOR 3 is because MMO's make a lot more money. But there are clearly more people who just want to play this game solo as if it's KOTOR 3. And BioWare knows this that's why they made 95% of the content to be solo-able which makes this game more of a RPG with MMO elements rather than a pure MMORPG.

 

Just because something was intended to function a certain way does not mean it cannot change. If things stay forever as they were first intended, then new inventions would never exist. Things evolve and grow because there's a demand. Sure if today there's only 5% people wanting to see Operations having a solo mode then that's not much demand to warrant a change. BioWare can just ignore it. But looking through the forums and all the previous threads, there is a significant demand for this all the way dating back to 2012. There have been many, many threads where people ask to be able to play Operations solo. And within those threads it's always half of the people agreeing and another half arguing against it. So it's not only a small minority of people wanting it. There is a significant demand. Of course that does not mean BioWare HAS to add this feature. But I think it would be a smart move considering how many people have been asking for it for years now. It will make A LOT of their fans happy.

 

As for your FPS comment, that's because there's no demand for it. If there's a large amount of Call of Duty fans (let's say 30%) wanting to see a 3rd person mode, wouldn't you say it'd be smart for them to add this feature? Or at least consider adding it? Of course it would. It all depends on if there is a demand or not.

 

actually call of duty modern warfare 2 had a 3rd person mode online that used to play! I agree I would probably play COD if they would add a 3rd person in all modes

[Izrin]

Hey there,

First of all, I really love this game, but I'm not loving the fact that we need to complete story-based OPs with others, which I feel hurts Solo players like myself. Why weren't we given an option to allow combat droids to assist us like the two FPs introduced by the most recent add-on? Why didn't the OPs have a solo-only mode, less loot, but doable? A lot of soloists like myself have to give up ever having Dread Guard armor because of the need to complete the OPs with other people.

 

Why am I a solo player? Due to the lack of etiquette my groupies have had in the past regarding loot. It is unfair that we may potentially be doing a OP for ONE SPECIFIC ITEM and then someone's greed gets in the way and they snag it even if they can't use it just because they want to sell it. (It has happened before, and it sucked.)

 

And the rare times I grit my teeth and actually queue for an OP, someone always cancels, and the wait time is reset. ***?

 

So because of this, it is impossible for solo players to experience the complete story, due to the OPs having a lot of story-based content. I finished Oricon, and I was waiting to fight the Dread Masters, looking forward to it, then the quest chain abruptly ended, or so I thought. I do not like that we need to have others assist us if we are to complete the entire story.

 

I am very sorry if I seem like I am complaining about this, which I kinda/sorta am, but not because I want to complain, it's because I really enjoy this game and it sucks that it's impossible for me to complete the entire story. Due to the fact that I work two full-time jobs and go to school online, I rarely have time to play this game as it is, and I am far too busy to wait around for people to make up their minds about whether or not they want to group up for Ops. I bit the bullet and joined an OP guild, but they have yet to do any.

 

Are there others who feel similarly?

 

Am sorry to say but Asdif_Laoeg is right u can go on the fleet and find new players to run through in no time your only limiting yourself, I have a range of friends that I ran through they all left the game my most best experiences is with the guild I made my own and doing progressinal raiding.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Izrin

[Izrin]

They just need to add a "skip the fighting and advance the story" button. Like they've added recently with the SOR prelude where you can skip talking to the droid and zone directly to manaan, as one example.

 

Make it flash "spoiler, you fought some bads then defeated Brontes" or something. Then you can click the wall panel and get ready to skip DP too.

 

LOL ops for dummies

[Exiled-Phoenix]

I think each Op should also have a flashpoint version for 4 people to do... bit less mechanics, and less loot ofcourse.

[aerockyul]

I think each Op should also have a flashpoint version for 4 people to do... bit less mechanics, and less loot ofcourse.

 

I like this idea. People will have an easier time seeing the story content they want and the raiders can still get what they want in forcing people to have to group up even when they don't want to

As I've stated repeatedly before, I'm still in favor of eliminating the loot altogether in "easy" mode. I do believe if you want the cool gear/mounts/decos/pet/etc. you should have to work for it. But I don't believe following the story should be so heavily gated.

[Nekroid]

Hey there,

First of all, I really love this game, but I'm not loving the fact that we need to complete story-based OPs with others, which I feel hurts Solo players like myself. Why weren't we given an option to allow combat droids to assist us like the two FPs introduced by the most recent add-on?

 

Totally agree with you, give us the combat droid so we can do OP solo.

End of discussion, atleast do not start quest-chains that you can solo

at first only to disover you cant end it!? I mean ***....LFG, LFG, LFG

[Toraak]

This is an MMO, solo players have plenty of things they can do in this game. 1-60 is solo, dailies are solo, crafting is solo, they even gave you 6 Flashpoints you can do Solo in SoR, and are adding 8 more solo FP's in the expansion (rehashed ones true, but you don't need a group for them). The Operations don't affect any story. Revan has a solo quest that you can do to complete the story, just don't choose the Operation option for it if your a solo player. Please leave Ops as they are. Simply it is meant to be group Content, and should stay that way. Edited August 25, 2015 by Toraak

[BobFredJohn]

At first I couldn't see any problem in what you were asking, a lootless, mindless run of ops for those people who want to see the story.

 

Then you mentioned loot. If there were ever to be such a thing as solo op it certainly wouldn't offer set piece loot. Its pretty normal for the high end gear to require people to do difficult missions (whether the difficulty is due to tough enemies or having the patience to put up with some elitist knob), it shouldn't be accessible from a simplistic version.

 

As for the loot situation, only wanting 1 specific piece but never getting it. Guilds are great for that. I had my sniper in 5/6 192 set piece and my guild did a ravagers run, I said I wanted 1 of the 2 I was missing (I don't bother getting 7-piece set) and they agreed not to roll on the 1 I need.

 

By being in a guild you make sure that you run with the same people, so eventually you giving up that 1 piece the other bloke needs to complete his set will be returned when you want 1 piece to finish your set.

 

Back to the topic of story, I know theres some swtor vids on youtube, search long enough and you may find someone that has uploaded ops cutscenes, along with the lore entries from picking up the mission that should do (pick up the mission, read the lore, go to youtube, watch the culmination of the story).

Edited August 25, 2015 by BobFredJohn

[ScarletBlaze]

This is an MMO, solo players have plenty of things they can do in this game. 1-60 is solo, dailies are solo, crafting is solo, they even gave you 6 Flashpoints you can do Solo in SoR, and are adding 8 more solo FP's in the expansion (rehashed ones true, but you don't need a group for them). The Operations don't affect any story. Revan has a solo quest that you can do to complete the story, just don't choose the Operation option for it if your a solo player. Please leave Ops as they are. Simply it is meant to be group Content, and should stay that way.

 

I am going to disagree with you. There are two OP that are tied into a story, the ones on Oricion, that you can't not do, unlike the one for Revan so there are two that are still not able to be done for the story.

 

If they are tied into a story, there should be an option for them to be done solo, smaller groups 2-4.

[Warhams]

I am going to disagree with you. There are two OP that are tied into a story, the ones on Oricion, that you can't not do, unlike the one for Revan so there are two that are still not able to be done for the story.

 

If they are tied into a story, there should be an option for them to be done solo, smaller groups 2-4.

 

Thing is the operations are based on the notion that they are to be done in larger groups of 4-8, if you want them to be done solo, all you will get are Revan fights like on Yavin as they cannot chop up the mechanics of the bosses in the current ops just so a single person who can solo it.

 

For example, if they wanted to make a "Solo" fortress, all they might have is only Brontes boss alone and with knockbacks, no insta kill mechanics and at gold difficulty. For "Solo" Palace, they will only have one fight where there will be 4 gold difficulty bosses for you to kill in turn, 2 silver bosses which you have to kill at the same time, then finally you got to fight all 4 gold bosses again. No mechanics, just tank and spank. For loot, zero decoration drops and some basic comms. If they really implement stuff like that, you will get all the Solo players going 'omg this is boring, too easy, wheres the loot etc etc' but they still won't want to group up for operations.

 

Right now anyway, if people only want them for story, all the current lvl 50 operations only need 3 people tops, lvl 55 ones need only 4, Palace needs 5 just because you need more than 4 to open some gates and that's it. So if you really want the story you can do it right now just with your 2-4 people, just like you want.

 

Come expansion, it will all be raised to 65 and we aren't going to get any new operations anyway. So it will be tons of content for 'solo' players but zero for group players.

[Monumenta]

I am going to disagree with you. There are two OP that are tied into a story, the ones on Oricion, that you can't not do, unlike the one for Revan so there are two that are still not able to be done for the story.

 

If they are tied into a story, there should be an option for them to be done solo, smaller groups 2-4.

 

The Dread Master's story arc is tied directly to the first 7 ops, 8 if you want to count TC. Having said that, I don't think this is a good argument for solo ops.

[Xedry]

This is an MMO, solo players have plenty of things they can do in this game. 1-60 is solo, dailies are solo, crafting is solo, they even gave you 6 Flashpoints you can do Solo in SoR, and are adding 8 more solo FP's in the expansion (rehashed ones true, but you don't need a group for them). The Operations don't affect any story. Revan has a solo quest that you can do to complete the story, just don't choose the Operation option for it if your a solo player. Please leave Ops as they are. Simply it is meant to be group Content, and should stay that way.

 

Just so you know MMORPG does not mean Must Make Other Require Play Group... it Is Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game... Meaning that there is Many People playing the same game... it doesn't say you have to group or that you are not entitled to things if you don't group that is the flaw in your claiming it is an MMO. that means nothing other than what I said that many people play and of those people some group some don't. Now as for solo content I think that they should get Gear... NOT Raid STATED gear. But vanity stuff is fine, SOLO Gear is fine hell even ORANGE Gear with no mods would be freaking Great cause I care more about what my character looks like than how hard he hits. But Vanity stuff like decorations there are some people who make beautiful strong holds but maybe they don't enjoy raids, but they enjoy decorating so what do you suggest is they don't get to do what they like?

[Xedry]

Let me Also point out that I don't like Decorations my Strong Hold has 5 things in it GTN, Storage, Legacy Storage, Mailbox, and the shop chick. I care about story, I care about my looks and that's about it. With that said I want there to be a Solo mode for everything... but I also wish there was a Nightmare mode for everything I want BW to cater to both the Solo and the OPS runners. I don't like to group I don't like OPS because of Group but I'd love to run all my Companions through an OPS. But Let the OPS have there OPS. See what I'm saying here?

[Khevar]

Just so you know MMORPG does not mean Must Make Other Require Play Group.

It's ironic that you make this sort of hyperbolic statement when the person you quoted listed out all of the many forms of solo content that exists in this game, and only asked "Please leave Ops as they are."

 

Edited August 27, 2015 by Khevar

[FerkWork]

The Kephess story arc is tied directly to the first 7 ops, 8 if you want to count TC. Having said that, I don't think this is a good argument for solo ops.

 

FTFY.

Kephess is love