Theran Shan?

[Nefla]

Right now I just feel really blah and mildly irritated at the whole thing. Regardless of how it turns out, I'm not a fan of being jerked around for months and drip fed super short blurbs of story that seem like they're thrown together hastily and disconnected from each other. I mean it would be one thing if it were something like Makeb with no personal stakes but this? Please treat it better.

[Swingkittie]

I never said he was right. I'm just saying that he had no intention of killing the Commander. Folks seem to assume that he's just all of a sudden gone mustache twirly villain and he now hates the Commander and everything he's fought side by side with us for. But that's not the case.

 

Time and time again Theron has proven that he goes off half-cocked, taking matters into his own hands, and doesn't think things through before jumping. His plans have a tendency to go sideways.

 

Did he make a dumb decision? Yup. Is he being an idiot? Yup. It all fits his character and his past actions (throughout Annihilation and the Lost Suns and Ziost). But a traitor in the literal sense? No.

 

Also, he may have been involved with Iokath, but I'm thinking that was a giant failure on his part. Even there he was attempting to stage a show to get on the in with the Order, and he failed...which is why he had to try again (with Umbara...the creepy masked guy even said as much). I'm thinking he wasn't the one in charge, and things went sideways (as per usual with him). I'm absolutely sure he wasn't planning on his father going whackadoo (if you went Imp). He had to make a choice to back the Commander there or maintain his cover...and he chose the former because his hand was forced. And then with the throne, he saves the Commander's life (technically) by interrupting the connection before the throne turned his/her brain to apple pie. Again, wise choices on his part? Nopers. But he's looking at "the ends justify the means."

 

In the case of a romanced Theron, you have to look at it from his perspective. He's been thrown away by everybody in his life (first his mother, then Master Zho, then the Jedi, and then is father on Iokath). Now he has someone he loves. More than life itself. Literally. Abandonment issues are a ***** to deal with. It's not surprising that he would do really stupid stuff to protect that person if he felt like he/she was in danger, even if that meant losing that person's trust forever. He'd rather have his love hate him than be dead. It's not exactly a healthy way of thinking, and I love love love that BioWare has given us a storyline that isn't all rainbows and kittens, they've given us a main romance character with trust issues, fear of abandonment, and I'd venture to say codependent tendencies. Life is messy. People do stupid stuff. It would be unrealistic and boring if everything just went perfect in the romance department.

 

I get what you are saying. Look at his blunder on Ziost for example. I recall a letter from him too about having difficulty working as a team. So it has been great to learn so much about Theron. I really didn't know much of him until Shadow of Revan. I am currently reading Anniliation and so far love the book. But yes, I get he has abandonment and trust issues. I also don't want a boring story. I had enough of bland boring romance or friend characters in the game. My Jedi Counselor didn't romance Ilresso and fell for Theron - a more interesting person to me. Maybe for her I want a rainbows and kittens ending. Each of my characters has a different ideology and perspective on everything. I choose to role-play that way. Nothing is cookie cutter in my characters.

 

He did screw up though and I expect a big apology in the end. I also don't want them to put a kill option in there. I may be tempted on my warrior (). Mainly because I have seen what the kill option has done with other characters. I hope this doesn't lead into a new expansion and is resolved soon.

[BlueShiftRecall]

Do you think that "traitor" is going have a [kill] option in the future?

 

To be honest I think there will be one whether or not there's the whole double/triple agent thing going on especially if enough people are crying out for revenge (years and years of kill Quinn threads anyone?), but that's not what concerns me, what concerns me is that we all know when a character can be killed their part in the "story" dies to.

Edited August 29, 2017 by BlueShiftRecall

[Eshvara]

Do you think that "traitor" is going have a [kill] option in the future?

 

To be honest I think there will be one whether or not there's the whole double/triple agent thing going on especially if enough people are crying out for revenge (years and years of kill Quinn threads anyone?), but that's not what concerns me, what concerns me is that we all know when a character can be killed their part in the "story" dies to.

 

I doubt he will honestly. I think Theron will be around for the long ride!

Against my wishes maybe, but I do sincerely believe he won't be killable.

[Paulsutherland]

I doubt he will honestly. I think Theron will be around for the long ride!

Against my wishes maybe, but I do sincerely believe he won't be killable.

 

He better be - He shot my beloved Lana in the chest ... though if she turns out to be involved in this, ten she's going too!!!!

[Swingkittie]

He better be - He shot my beloved Lana in the chest ... though if she turns out to be involved in this, ten she's going too!!!!

 

I'm on the fence with this honestly. It should be how we play our character, which is why some of us killed Koth, Senya, etc. But I also don't want his story to die just because players can kill him. There needs to be a continued story for those who do not kill him. However, they promised these things before and look what happened. Quinn is just a decoration in my stronghold and Koth never says a word on some of my other characters. This is what I don't want to see happen to Theron.

[Lammia]

Barging a lil' here in the middle of an interesting discussion, but I have a small announcement to make

 

Theronites on TRE plan to have a "support march" or whatever you'd like to call it. So if any of you would like to join (or organise on other servers), here's some initial info:

 

We don't have date and time yet, but I think the place has been chosen: Odessen. Plus encouragement of wearing Theron's red jacket (if you didn't trash it; it works with outfit designer).

[Nefla]

Barging a lil' here in the middle of an interesting discussion, but I have a small announcement to make

 

Theronites on TRE plan to have a "support march" or whatever you'd like to call it. So if any of you would like to join (or organise on other servers), here's some initial info:

 

We don't have date and time yet, but I think the place has been chosen: Odessen. Plus encouragement of wearing Theron's red jacket (if you didn't trash it; it works with outfit designer).

 

All my characters are on Begeren Colony

[BlueShiftRecall]

I know someone already posted a situation similar but I thought I would support it with mine, I have quite a few alt accounts (some with the Theron romance). Through the FP on an alt account I chose the love/flirt lines with the traitor but at the very end chose the bounty transmission. I didn't get the mail later that says the traitor still loves me but got the DS one, on the traitor character info it still says we're in a relationship however. I'm curious to see if the options we chose in this FP effect the relationship and we break up later if we chose the bounty option. Edited August 30, 2017 by BlueShiftRecall

[Asmodesu]

All my characters are on Begeren Colony

 

Harbinger for me it's the Lana-love server. Haven't met one person who likes Theron's character yet. I'm sure they're just hiding >.>

[Nefla]

Harbinger for me it's the Lana-love server. Haven't met one person who likes Theron's character yet. I'm sure they're just hiding >.>

Really? D: That's crazy and sad T_T

[Asmodesu]

Really? D: That's crazy and sad T_T

 

I'm pretty sure it's just the vocal population there, being pvp'ers mostly (and not the nicest). I was only on the server for the amount of people, and I used to have a decent amount of acquaintances there. They left the game after KotET mostly and work for some, and since I can't take my guild ship, strongholds and decs with me I'm not transferring anywhere. Would lose too much.

 

But I'm fine in my little corner hoping Theron gets some good stuff at the end of this arc xD

[Nefla]

I'm pretty sure it's just the vocal population there, being pvp'ers mostly (and not the nicest). I was only on the server for the amount of people, and I used to have a decent amount of acquaintances there. They left the game after KotET mostly and work for some, and since I can't take my guild ship, strongholds and decs with me I'm not transferring anywhere. Would lose too much.

 

But I'm fine in my little corner hoping Theron gets some good stuff at the end of this arc xD

 

That makes sense, combat focused players are more often male and male players tend to hate male love interest characters and love female love interest characters >.<

[Diviciacus]

That makes sense, combat focused players are more often male and male players tend to hate male love interest characters and love female love interest characters >.<

 

Hey now, let's not make any sweeping generalizations.

[Tadagyt]

Harbinger for me it's the Lana-love server. Haven't met one person who likes Theron's character yet. I'm sure they're just hiding >.>

 

I'm there too. Moved from JC months ago. I'm not really into pvp, I'm more of an ops girl (pugs).

Edited August 31, 2017 by Tadagyt

[Nefla]

Hey now, let's not make any sweeping generalizations.

Sorry, I'm just salty

[AKHadeed]

Hey hey hey. I'm a BC pvper who runs a lot of places with Theron.

 

-cough-

[Swingkittie]

Harbinger for me it's the Lana-love server. Haven't met one person who likes Theron's character yet. I'm sure they're just hiding >.>

 

I am on Harbinger and love, love, love (can i say it enough times) Theron.

[BlueShiftRecall]

Hope they release the new road map soon, I really want to know how long we're going to have to wait for more story. Edited September 4, 2017 by BlueShiftRecall

[Cindlehr]

This is my response to the last chapter if anyone wants to see, SPOILERS

 

 

I think its very much a super deep infiltration plan. I spent a good 5 minutes with my jaw dropped going 'what?!' at the betrayal. But then other things kept not feeling right.

 

I hate to say it but the voice acting wasn't that great to me. Theron sounds overly hostile in a way that seems obviously exaggerated. My consular, I just had a hard time believing her reactions. I think if they had slowed the dialogue down a bit it would have helped. Let the shock sort of be able to show.

 

But yeah, lets see:

* telling you what hes doing and essentially giving you the opportunity as well as pretty much telling you without actually saying it 'jump'.

 

* chasing him to the ship seems to be him leading you off planet to me

 

* leaving the shards which even Lana is confused by

 

* I agree I think this order was watching the whole time, thus he had to make it real. I don't think Lana nor Commander know.

 

* I went with the light side options because my character loves him. 2 things caught my attention at the end.

 

after giving her speech, it ends with "I love you Theron, come home." He looks at the holo sadly and turns it off. Then says, "I love you too...(with regret in his voice)...but I can't.' Just as he says that, the holo from the order guy saying that he has proven himself comes through.

 

lots of seemingly genuine 'I love yous' in this chapter which I loved. But its also interesting, if he hates you so much, he wouldn't be saying that, especially now that hes 'free of your influence'.

 

When he sends the mail- the damn subject is 'I love you.' He then goes to explain that he really can't explain, and he hopes that the commander will understand one day, but he can't return. Also he understands if you don't forgive him either. But he's loved you from the day he met you, and always will.

 

To me this cemented he's undercover. Someone who truly hated you would be mocking your stupidity. Hes essentially saying, 'I can't come back' repeatedly. Why? Because he found something much bigger than all of what you are facing, that he is the only insider on now. He has to do everything he can do figure out what is happening.

 

He also understands his role as a spy could go either way, you could never forgive him, or you will. He just hopes that one day you'll be able to understand what hes doing and why.

 

I really hope they pull this off well. I mean the man tag-teamed with a jedi master, and brought down the most dangerous weapon the imperials had. This is equivalent to Quinns shutting down a whole fleet by sneaking on the ship and disabling it. Freaking genius. I hope we get to see him pull something equally as epic, and get him back.

 

[Asmodesu]

Interesting read! however, I wonder how much changes when one disregards every single romance specific line/reaction he gives. Does the infiltration theory still hold up so well with non-romanced Commanders?

I'm curious, I do know he apologises at the end on his ship to a Commander that puts a bounty on his head. Just "I'm sorry, Commander" *clicks off the holonet." which helps for the theory at least.

[Estelindis]

I think the infiltration theory holds up fine with non-romanced commanders. It still comes across to me that he respects the main character and is putting on an act so he can go deep undercover.

[orangenee]

Too busy arguing "RP politics" over on my server. No Lananites or Theronites to be seen.

[Asmodesu]

I think the infiltration theory holds up fine with non-romanced commanders. It still comes across to me that he respects the main character and is putting on an act so he can go deep undercover.

 

Yeah, I agree the respect is there across the board. Even for the more trigger-happy Commanders interestingly enough. I think it does hold up I just never saw anyone discuss it without requiring to throw in the romance lines. It is possible without doing so!

says the crazy romancer in the corner rofl.

A few people I talk to in a discord chat that don' t like the character, don't romance him, still signed up on the infiltration theory. I asked the question to them too today, just after posting it here, and got some awesome answers in response. So I'm all cool now, I wanted just to hear another version for it haha.

 

My personal thoughts on everything from plans, to leads up to the full 'betrayal':

 

 

He respects the Commander either way, and isn't actually wanting the Alliance gone but the Order does.

Possibly he's the same reasoning behind all in the end, whatever the Commander is like the Order may be worse in his opinion, since they are the ones that started the war on Iokath to hurt the Alliance - I didn't take the "I lured you into trap on Iokath" speech as specific wording of truth that he was the one to do so on his own or that he was the one to send the plans to everyone, I think he simply put threads together and got some info as a possible agent for them, but he only knew about parts of it and it was what started his crusade to fully infiltrate because he couldn't risk having only a small fraction of the information/plans again considering the Commander almost got as fried as the last Iokath-person to use the superweapon droid, and the opposing faction's military leader did. Both being fried deaths makes me believe that the sabotage of the terminal is what was meant to kill the Commander, but they survived, just:

if you romance Elara as trooper she brings up the medical details, I wish she did that for every Commander but oh well. Her words are "I've just reviewed your Bioscan, you're very fortunate to have survived nerve damage this severe. Standard kolto immersion treatment seems to have repaired the damage. But I'd still advise temporary implantation of polarized cranial implants to be on the safe side"

 

After I theorise that in, I can see why if romanced he'd have those two lines "I'd do anything to protect you." and the tone/emotion in how he says, before walking off on the train, "I couldn't take that risk." (after the "knew you'd try to talk me out of it" line he breaks with the risk one. Not sure if both are romance specific but they work well together. Iokath messed up on him, he almost lost the Commander entirely (death), so he's joining them properly on the hope that being a full member will let him actually manage to protect the Commander next time, romanced or not.

 

Just my thoughts on the whole matter obviously.

 

 

[Ioue]

 

 

He respects the Commander either way, and isn't actually wanting the Alliance gone but the Order does.

Possibly he's the same reasoning behind all in the end, whatever the Commander is like the Order may be worse in his opinion, since they are the ones that started the war on Iokath to hurt the Alliance - I didn't take the "I lured you into trap on Iokath" speech as specific wording of truth that he was the one to do so on his own or that he was the one to send the plans to everyone, I think he simply put threads together and got some info as a possible agent for them, but he only knew about parts of it and it was what started his crusade to fully infiltrate because he couldn't risk having only a small fraction of the information/plans again considering the Commander almost got as fried as the last Iokath-person to use the superweapon droid, and the opposing faction's military leader did. Both being fried deaths makes me believe that the sabotage of the terminal is what was meant to kill the Commander, but they survived, just:

if you romance Elara as trooper she brings up the medical details, I wish she did that for every Commander but oh well. Her words are "I've just reviewed your Bioscan, you're very fortunate to have survived nerve damage this severe. Standard kolto immersion treatment seems to have repaired the damage. But I'd still advise temporary implantation of polarized cranial implants to be on the safe side"

 

After I theorise that in, I can see why if romanced he'd have those two lines "I'd do anything to protect you." and the tone/emotion in how he says, before walking off on the train, "I couldn't take that risk." (after the "knew you'd try to talk me out of it" line he breaks with the risk one. Not sure if both are romance specific but they work well together. Iokath messed up on him, he almost lost the Commander entirely (death), so he's joining them properly on the hope that being a full member will let him actually manage to protect the Commander next time, romanced or not.

 

Just my thoughts on the whole matter obviously.

 

 

You can still respect a person/decision while disliking it/them on a personal level. Liking and respecting, as I see it, are mutually exclusive things although disliking does influence how you act against said decision if one is not careful (check yo' self before you wreck yourself ;D). But Theron has years of field experience. The game and tie-in media consistently paint him as a mature professional super spy. He may not always go with full fledged plans with contingencies, but he gets the job done despite his personal feelings. If he was so blind to the Republic propaganda hatred toward Imperials, if he wasn't a mature professional, he would never have involved himself with Lana all those years ago against Revan and Alliance. The Revan/Shan family is pictured as acting always for the "greater good of the galaxy". Well, Theron sure fits in the family tree.

 

I played Iokath and Umbara back to back recently, and I would describe Theron's words and performance as conflicted. His tone is very dubious, ambiguous, as if his feet are already at the door. It's not fully committed as Lana's (but then she's a Sith Lord *shrug*). Yeah, I found his mustache-twirling diatribe so out of character yet with some truth to how and what his character believes up to this point. Theron does believe in peace and his need to believe in a bigger cause more than himself. At heart, he is an idealist, imo, opposed to Lana the ruthlessly pragmatic Sith. And you don't want to piss off an idealist as they are a stubborn bunch (I should know, I'm an idealist and I know I'm really stubborn).

 

 

Thanks for sharing what Elara said. So far, I've only sided with Empire so I missed that bit, and didn't know just how severe using the superweapon has on the toon's body. If you do DS (be Empress/Emporer), when you choose "why didn't you talk to me before?", Theron replies with "you would have thrown me into jail or worse", and I did it with a romanced toon. So, think "I couldn't take that risk" is more of LS (peacekeeper) route. If you take in what Elara said about damage, the "I'd do anything to protect you" certainly adds more danger to the Outlander. I like

 

Now that traitor is out in the open, I'm really interested in seeing how BW will take Theron who they also have invested a lot in terms of in-game and tie-in novel content. I do love Theron as a character, not just because he is one of my favorite LIs in swtor, buuuuuuut don't want him to be a paperweight in future expansions . He's too integral to Alliance storyline along with Lana as they are the two advisors and ultimately founders.