Emperor's Wrath vs Darth Nox, who is more powerful lore-wise?

[jovianus]

And especially considering Darth Marr still respects Wath versus him actually seething at Nox due to Nox having his friend Thanaton killed (since Marr made it clear that he was tired of the infighting and thus wasn't pursuing revenge) I don't think it's hard to surmise that as far as strength in the Force and power tends tog o more towards the warrior. Just because sith lightning isn't being thrown about doesn't mean they aren't strong in the Force after all.

 

I think that's a bit of a stretch. The difference in Marr's behavior toward the two is a matter of position. Nox is basically just another ordinary member of the Council, Marr can maneuver around and deal with him just like he can with anyone else. The Wrath is obviously different, he sits on the Council directly by the will of the Emperor, and is the enforcer of the Emperors will. The caveat is of course, that that is the only reason he sits on the Council, and the Sith Warrior's entire storyline acts as an object lesson in what happens if you decide to abuse the Emperor's name to advance personal agendas.

 

Marr respects the Wrath as the Emperor's personal attack dog. His treatment of Nox doesn't necessarily mean anything about their relative power, but simply that he doesn't have to take the Emperor into consideration when dealing with him.

[Silverspar]

I think that's a bit of a stretch. The difference in Marr's behavior toward the two is a matter of position. Nox is basically just another ordinary member of the Council, Marr can maneuver around and deal with him just like he can with anyone else. The Wrath is obviously different, he sits on the Council directly by the will of the Emperor, and is the enforcer of the Emperors will. The caveat is of course, that that is the only reason he sits on the Council, and the Sith Warrior's entire storyline acts as an object lesson in what happens if you decide to abuse the Emperor's name to advance personal agendas.

 

Marr respects the Wrath as the Emperor's personal attack dog. His treatment of Nox doesn't necessarily mean anything about their relative power, but simply that he doesn't have to take the Emperor into consideration when dealing with him.

 

It's not a stretch at all since Marr actually says he would have destroyed Nox if he wasn't tired of the infighting. Again, the entire Inquisitor story just comes off as a little kid who is upset he didn't get his cookie, and forces their way to respect and power and in the end still doesn't have the respect they demanded. Basically, them being manipulated into doing specific things and still coming out as a bottom feeder in the end.

[LordCJK]

By feats( the only way we can judge ) Wrath is much stronger. He's beaten Voice of the Emperor and Sel Makor combined( although It's hard to determine how powerful this creqture was, but I doubt it was much weaker than standart Voice ). I think that should suffice to conclude that Wrath is more powerful. Of course, there is more: Darth Baras and Darth Vengean( who seemingly were stronger than Thanaton ). Though I doubt Nomen Karr is more powerful than Thanaton.

I understand that Sith Inquisitor has more impressive abilities but that's not an arguement at all. Dread Masters with all their immense Sorcery( mind attacks, something with space-time( not sure what it was Calphayus used in operation ), force drain and change in size } were beaten by master-duelist and squad of republic soldiers, Mace Windu( pure lightsaber dueslist ) held his own against Sorcerer Darth Sidious and, probably( not confirmed ), even outmatched him in combat.

[FlameYOL]

It's not a stretch at all since Marr actually says he would have destroyed Nox if he wasn't tired of the infighting. Again, the entire Inquisitor story just comes off as a little kid who is upset he didn't get his cookie, and forces their way to respect and power and in the end still doesn't have the respect they demanded. Basically, them being manipulated into doing specific things and still coming out as a bottom feeder in the end.

 

Even Though Darth Marr Said That He's Still Respectful To Nox(With Me At Least)I Would Actually Love To Be At A Battle With Darth Marr For The Sith Emperor's Throne,And If The Inquisitor Is The Kid Wanting The Cookie,The Warrior Is The Kid WIth Too Much Cookies.

[dcaleb]

I don't recall Marr saying anything remotely along the lines of 'I'm only abstaining from attacking you because I'm sick of infighting' to my character. Perhaps it was because I was playing an Imperius path Inquisitor who had repeatedly made it clear he wasn't interested in fighting Thanaton and was only doing so in self defense against his stupid obsessive grudge against me. I guess it would make sense for him to be less happy to see a Nox style Inquisitor that was happy to have been given the chance to crush Thanaton and increase his own power.

[Ghisallo]

In the end power, in the context of the OP, comes down to who will kick whose butt. In this I think it really depends on who picks the ground. Its very akin to the Knight/Consular argument. The Knight/Wrath is certainly the greater "warrior" in the traditional sense. If the Inquis was to be either forced, or chose to simply get into a light saber duel... He/she is TOAST.

 

However the Inquis has a greater mastery of the Force itself. So if he manages to make this more of a test of will/the force then he wins. He could even tilt the field more in his favor by using his far more extensive network of allies.

 

So like many powerful people, its not a question of who is more powerful in the end, its a question of who first takes the initiative, then who plays it smarter.

[Alkuzar]

Also Don't forget that now with 3.0,

 

Both the DC and Wrath turn against the emperor, so Nox still has his powerbase. But Wrath only had his connection to the emperor, which is useless now.

 

[dcaleb]

Also Don't forget that now with 3.0,

 

Both the DC and Wrath turn against the emperor, so Nox still has his powerbase. But Wrath only had his connection to the emperor, which is useless now.

 

I wouldn't say the Wrath is entirely without political clout, they are still a Darth (maybe, possibly, but at the very least they are a Sith Lord since Baras explicitly promotes him in story instead of you just getting a title for your character to use) with all of the power that delegates at the baseline of the title and they have the ear of Darth Marr, the current 'first amongst equals' on the Dark Council. Still not as impressive as being one of the more influential members of the Dark Council like Kallig is, but they aren't powerless in politics.

[Alkuzar]

I wouldn't say the Wrath is entirely without political clout, they are still a Darth (maybe, possibly, but at the very least they are a Sith Lord since Baras explicitly promotes him in story instead of you just getting a title for your character to use) with all of the power that delegates at the baseline of the title and they have the ear of Darth Marr, the current 'first amongst equals' on the Dark Council. Still not as impressive as being one of the more influential members of the Dark Council like Kallig is, but they aren't powerless in politics.

 

Technically he is not a Darth. BW gave him the Darth title, because alot of players complained about the warrior not becoming a Darth. But storywise he never became one. Even though gets a Lord title, he doesn't have a group thats loyal too him, besides his companions. Like the inquisitor gets even certain moffs turn to him. (As far i know, haven't finished the warrior storyline)

[Morrolan]

However, Thanaton was a low level thug, basically; strong yes, but not the strongest of the Dark Council. Darth Baras on the other hand, had the entire council practically convinced, except for Vowran, that he was indeed the new Voice of the Emperor.

 

Considering how the fight goes for the warrior against Baras, who is quite powerful on his own, and there was no help in that fight for the warrior, Wrath has the upper hand against Nox quite easily, sorcery or not since Wrath can deflect sith sorcery.

 

I never got the impression that Thanaton was a low level thug. And Baras mainly got where he did from politicking not from displays of power, and once the sith entity had been neutralised.....................

[Gymnotiformes]

I guess it depends on how they fight - they're based off of Darth Vader and the Emperor, after all. Presumably the Wrath would be able to beat Nox in a plain old stand up brawl in the same way Vader killed the emperor, but with time to get his ghosts ready, or really just plan at all, presumably Nox would win.

[Silverspar]

I wouldn't say the Wrath is entirely without political clout, they are still a Darth (maybe, possibly, but at the very least they are a Sith Lord since Baras explicitly promotes him in story instead of you just getting a title for your character to use) with all of the power that delegates at the baseline of the title and they have the ear of Darth Marr, the current 'first amongst equals' on the Dark Council. Still not as impressive as being one of the more influential members of the Dark Council like Kallig is, but they aren't powerless in politics.

 

Warrior can collect a power base to, it will depend strongly on your choices you make, if you actually use the Sith Code to your advantage. However, that being said, Nox's power base isn't exactly what I call reliable, mostly being inept acolytes and zealots on Nar Shadaa; both of which have proven to be easily ousted by practically anyone with any sense of ambition, which pretty much means the warrior would have a field day with Nox's power base.

 

And as far as power of Thanaton versus Baras, Baras might have done more politcal maneuvering to get his position, but there is no way he would have gotten said position without having a massive power base, something Thanaton doesn't even display. Baras power base was to the point he had spies on the Republic and in the Council itself, and considering he was able to sway most of the Dark Council's (exclusing Darth Vowron) opinion to believe that Baras was the new Voice of the Emperor, speaks a lot of his power.

 

And this speaks nothing of the simple fact that Wrath defeats an empowered Emperor on Voss.

 

And on the final note, Wrath becomes Wrath of the Empire instead of the Emperor, so the Wrath's power base remains strong.

 

Nox has sith sorcery, but Wrath is demonstrated as being quite capable of resisting said sorcery, and in fact barely flinching since through Baras bravado he even admits he was only giving a show as to not bore the Council while Wrath did not flinch to Baras onslaught of lightning.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Silverspar

[FlameYOL]

And this speaks nothing of the simple fact that Wrath defeats an empowered Emperor on Voss.

 

/QUOTE]

 

LOL He Defeated Sel Makor Wich Was Fighting For The Control Of The Body Weakning Both The Emperor And Sel Makor WIch Made The Fight Far Easier That It Would Have If The Emperor/Sel Makor been in control.

[BrianDavion]

regarding thanaton's level of power and influance on the DC, I think it's worth remembering he was basicly a nobody (indeed a political inconveniance the DC likely hoped would due) he only ended up on the DC after BASICLY blackmailing the rest of the council

[Silverspar]

 

LOL He Defeated Sel Makor Wich Was Fighting For The Control Of The Body Weakning Both The Emperor And Sel Makor WIch Made The Fight Far Easier That It Would Have If The Emperor/Sel Makor been in control.

 

Actually no, Sel Makor had full control of the Emperor's powers and abilities, why Sel Makor was actually shocked when you defeat him.

Edited December 15, 2014 by Silverspar

[FlameYOL]

Actually no, Sel Makor had full control of the Emperor's powers and abilities, why Sel Makor was actually shocked when you defeat him.

 

They Were Battleing For Control Of The Body Weakning Both If Sel Makor Had Full Control The FIght Would Have Been Probaly Imposible For Anyone But Vitiate Himself Since Sel Makor Is Kind Like Abeloth.

[gblXsw]

Actually no, Sel Makor had full control of the Emperor's powers and abilities

 

And where do you get that from? Not from the game. We don't even know if the Emperor himself would have had "full control of his powers and abilities" in that body. He certainly uses much more varied and powerful abilities when he fights the JK.

[BrianDavion]

And where do you get that from? Not from the game. We don't even know if the Emperor himself would have had "full control of his powers and abilities" in that body. He certainly uses much more varied and powerful abilities when he fights the JK.

 

in fairness his fight with the JK he didn't use a whole lot of power, he used AOE lightning effects, hit with his sword, and basicly used a force version of the ole D&D mirror image spell. the emperor's big tier powers don't seem to nesscarily be straight up combat ones. rather he seems to posess an Amazingly strong ability to bend people to his will.

 

In other words if you're actively fighting him, he's already proably spent his best shot

Edited December 15, 2014 by BrianDavion

[Galdos]

Personal opinion. I dont actually consider the Emperor's Wrath to be all that powerful. I enjoyed my lightside version of him a lot, but I got the impression while playing that the Inqusitior (Occulus), The Sage, and the Knight were all stronger than the Wrath.

 

Hell even my Trooper (to be fair, my trooper is my main) seems better considering the number of Sith Masters I burn through during the Corellian planetary arc including a Dark Council Member. Though again, this is my little canon universe. Obviously everyone is different.

 

 

Even so the Wrath doesn't seem all the impressive compared to any of the other force users

[KorbanShepard]

Personal opinion. I dont actually consider the Emperor's Wrath to be all that powerful. I enjoyed my lightside version of him a lot, but I got the impression while playing that the Inqusitior (Occulus), The Sage, and the Knight were all stronger than the Wrath.

 

Hell even my Trooper (to be fair, my trooper is my main) seems better considering the number of Sith Masters I burn through during the Corellian planetary arc including a Dark Council Member. Though again, this is my little canon universe. Obviously everyone is different.

 

 

Even so the Wrath doesn't seem all the impressive compared to any of the other force users

 

What's the basis for this?

[Terminator_L]

First of all this analysis may contain spoilers, but I'll try my best to non-spoil

 

I have played both chars, and I just can't see Wrath beating Nox

 

First the Wrath is heavily overrated, I get it, is story is more fun to play to most people because on the chap 1 you already got one slave and 1 apprentice, while the sith story is mostly sith-like and not everybody enjoys the comp of the Khen (ancient best of one powerful sith lord, actually more loyal and brave than I thought, I don't even know how someone can dislike him after some time spent with him)

 

The Wrath like some people already said on this thread (or was in another) looks like a bodyguard, a paid-killer, the whole story you feel like you're just a weapon for someone else, the Inquisitor of course have masters too, but he looks how to get more powerful at each moment to outmatch his enemies,you feel like a true sith, not just someone ''strong in the force'' but also capable of thinking by yourself

 

Back to powers, I don't know how these people can point a argument about how Thanaton is weak, when the warrior master is Baras who is a fat mediocre sith, who can't even kill his worst enemy and basically always mess up something at his plan, so you need to clean his mess

 

The sith inquisitor deal with ghosts and introspection with the force on a frequency that is remarkable, if you read the ''Book of Sith'' for example on one note Luke said that was necessary the whole jedi academy to defeat one ghost alone, this shows up that ghosts are some of the big dogs on the star wars world, and the way the sith not only deal with them, but also absorb their powers make me respect him even more

 

The Wrath you kill jedi masters and sith lords, some really powerful ones,but I still can't see him overcoming Darth Nox, also because

 

Force >>>> Lightsaber

 

Of course the lightsaber mastery is necessary, but who that can dominate ghosts and go deep on the darkside of the force have a huge advantage, also on the ''real world'' wouldn't there be the game restrictions

 

Wrath could use 1 lightsaber or 2 when he feels like it, and dominate every single saber instance, but on another hand, Nox would not only master the dark side of the force, but he also would could use it with his Double-bladed lightsaber charging it, or using stealth to surprise attack, and recovering power if necessary

 

Basically Nox is not only more powerful by his deep knowledge on the force, but also because he is more complete, even if he would face someone theoretically more powerful than him, he would find a way to outmatch his opponent, the whole Inquisitor story is about getting more powerful and finding ways to defeat your opponent

 

Well, also every time I see a thread like this, most people defending Wrath just hide on obscure comparisons on rank

 

''Wrath is the emperor assasin, his rank is above Dark Concil, so he can beat anyone''

''But Thanaton wasn't so strong, I think baras is way more powerful than him''

''Nox got 2 apprentices, one beast of one of the most remarkable sith lord the old rep time, and ghosts powers on him? lol weak, the Wrath got Jaesa and Scourge, also Vette''

 

Also being immortal actually means nothing, you can still be defeated,banished or destroyed

[Galdos]

What's the basis for this?

 

Again, personal opinion, but It is from the dialogue and the actual visual look of the class.

 

The Consular, everyone and their mother are commenting how much potentional you have based off how strong your connection is to the force. I mean the Sage is throwing out Dragon Ball Z levels of Balls of Force around. An impressive feat.

 

The Knight is something similar. As a mere padawan you were beating Jedi trainers in lightsaber combat easily BEFORE even arriving on Tython. They comment that they havnt seen a Padawan with so much potential in combat in ages.

 

The Inquisitior gains a massive boost in powers from using the Force Ghost and he comes from a highly impressive and powerful Sith Lord heritage.

 

 

 

The Warrior on the other hand is just a random guy who is either pure blooded Sith or mixed pure blood and Human that the overseer sees potentional in. Where the 2 Jedi glass are oozing so much with ability every Jedi can see it, no one even bats an eyelash at the Sith Warrior. Also the graphics of the Sith Warrior add a lot to it. The Sith Warrior is a HORRIBLE FIGHTER. From the way he holds his lightsaber so far away from his body to the very slow and heavy handed attack he does, an even remotely skilled opponent could easily dodge and counter a Sith Warriors abilities. He doesn't win his battles by being skilled, he wins his battles by brute force it looks like, something a great sword fighter could use against him.

 

 

So between the dialogue and the visual design of the moves, I dont find the Sith Warrior very impressive.

[Rhyltran]

Again, personal opinion, but It is from the dialogue and the actual visual look of the class.

 

The Consular, everyone and their mother are commenting how much potentional you have based off how strong your connection is to the force. I mean the Sage is throwing out Dragon Ball Z levels of Balls of Force around. An impressive feat.

 

The Knight is something similar. As a mere padawan you were beating Jedi trainers in lightsaber combat easily BEFORE even arriving on Tython. They comment that they havnt seen a Padawan with so much potential in combat in ages.

 

The Inquisitior gains a massive boost in powers from using the Force Ghost and he comes from a highly impressive and powerful Sith Lord heritage.

 

 

 

The Warrior on the other hand is just a random guy who is either pure blooded Sith or mixed pure blood and Human that the overseer sees potentional in. Where the 2 Jedi glass are oozing so much with ability every Jedi can see it, no one even bats an eyelash at the Sith Warrior. Also the graphics of the Sith Warrior add a lot to it. The Sith Warrior is a HORRIBLE FIGHTER. From the way he holds his lightsaber so far away from his body to the very slow and heavy handed attack he does, an even remotely skilled opponent could easily dodge and counter a Sith Warriors abilities. He doesn't win his battles by being skilled, he wins his battles by brute force it looks like, something a great sword fighter could use against him.

 

 

So between the dialogue and the visual design of the moves, I dont find the Sith Warrior very impressive.

 

First off you're judging the warrior by game mechanics. (How he holds his lightsaber and the attack animations.) Second right out of the bat overseer Tremmel tells you that he's never seen a force user with as much potential as you and even says he thinks you might be the second coming of Exar Kun. This is high praise. Exar Kun is one of the most powerful Sith to ever exist. Possibly even rivaling Emperor Vitiate. You then kill the beast of Marka Ragnos which creates such a powerful ripple Baras comes early in order to investigate. The ripple is that massive that it's felt before he even arrives.

 

You defeat Noman Karr at the end of Chapter 1 who's a Jedi Master that has taken down Dark Council members in the past. In fact, you defeat several council members through the story. Defeat the Emperor's Voice. Defeat Baras. Etc. The warrior also does something no Jedi or Sith has displayed in the past.. reflect Force Lightning back at his attacker using his lightsaber. We've seen Sith/Jedi deflect force lightning but never "fling it back" at them.

 

Game mechanics? The warrior can now release blasts of dark side energy. Something Exar Kun could do.. with an amulet. The warrior doesn't need it. The warrior in his storyline NEVER loses a duel. He defeats everyone and anyone who comes his way and has a perfect track record. Am I saying he'd defeat Nox? No but I don't get how the warrior comes off as weak. Right out of the gate you're made aware that you are the real deal.

[Galdos]

Snipl.

 

Again, just personal opinion. I get what you are saying and I can see why people think so highly of him. It just doesnt work for me personally.

[LordCJK]

when the warrior master is Baras who is a fat mediocre sith

So what if he's fat? You can't judge person's powers by his looks.

''Mediocre'' sounds pretty funny in context. The guy was on par with Satele Shan and Angral.

Luke said that was necessary the whole jedi academy to defeat one ghost alone

Have you just compared 4 no-names with Exar Kun after he performed force ritual on Yavin 4?

Force >>>> Lightsaber

Yeah, I can understand you position, but authors of Star Wars doesn't seem to share this opinion.

Just a few names: Anakin, Luke, Mace Windu, Hero of Tython( the first ones came up in my minds ). All of them are strong in the force( as is Wrath ), but they are lightsaber duelists and not sorcerers/sages. Even Wrath himself( lightsaber opponent ) defeated Emperor's voice possessed by Sel Makor.

Don't mistake relying on lightsaber for being weak in the force. Well, even Darth Sidious usually used his lightsaber first when fighting worthy opponents.

Also being immortal actually means nothing, you can still be defeated,banished or destroyed

Same goes for Nox.

Edited December 17, 2014 by LordCJK