AmericanNate Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 None, I don't PvP, and rarely group. I don't care about "fulfilling a role". I don't "pretend" at anything. I spend 95% or more of the time I'm in SWTOR solo. And the irony is, these sorts of changes come from companies listening to PvP whiners complaining about other people's characters. And the irony is, you're playing in a game that is highly focused on group-built endgame content, and expecting them to balance and combat design around a solo player. Your personal feelings about PvP and PvE engdame is irrelevent. It's the most important aspect once you hit max level, and that's what it gets balanced around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximusRex Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Hybrid builds are terrible, glad they killed them for once and for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 No, but I'm going to miss choosing my 9 extras in the 2 other trees depending on fight, I liked that you could switch it up a bit and be rewarded for different strategies, styles of thinking etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 (edited) So they pretty much WANT to alienate anyone who isn't into being spoonfed and pigeon holed? And their excuse amounts to it allows them to be lazy and save money? You're not doing a good job of defending this change, if that's your intent. You were already pigeon holed. There was only one or two "right" ways to walk the tree, everything else just meant that you were doing it wrong and performed badly as a result. If by "be lazy and save money" you mean not waste a bunch of development time balancing classes around the fact that people would take unintended paths and either become terrible or too good, just to satisfy some players' need to be "special" then yes, they are being lazy. And I congratulate them for it. No, but I'm going to miss choosing my 9 extras in the 2 other trees depending on fight, I liked that you could switch it up a bit and be rewarded for different strategies, styles of thinking etc. And you can do exactly that with the utilities skills that the'll be providing on the right side of the menu. Edited October 9, 2014 by MillionsKNives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 If by "be lazy and save money" you mean not waste a bunch of development time balancing classes around the fact that people would take unintended paths and either become terrible or too good, just to satisfy some players' need to be "special" then yes, they are being lazy. And I congratulate them for it. VERY well said!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 And the irony is, you're playing in a game that is highly focused on group-built endgame content, and expecting them to balance and combat design around a solo player. Your personal feelings about PvP and PvE engdame is irrelevent. It's the most important aspect once you hit max level, and that's what it gets balanced around. Maybe hardcore raiding is the important thing for you, if that's all there was to do at max level I'd have quit the game a long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 (edited) You were already pigeon holed. There was only one or two "right" ways to walk the tree, everything else just meant that you were doing it wrong and performed badly as a result. If by "be lazy and save money" you mean not waste a bunch of development time balancing classes around the fact that people would take unintended paths and either become terrible or too good, just to satisfy some players' need to be "special" then yes, they are being lazy. And I congratulate them for it.. Funny, I play all hybrids, and do just fine. This is more about people like you buying into "OMG Y U NO FotM U SUCK" nonsense than it is about the actual effectiveness of the hybrids. Ironically, that asinine obsession with "The One True Build" is a large part of why I avoid endgame group play like the plague. Edited October 9, 2014 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Maybe hardcore raiding is the important thing for you, if that's all there was to do at max level I'd have quit the game a long time ago. What is important to you such that losing hybrid specs will ruin your experience? Not trolling, but if you want empathy you need to elaborate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Funny, I play all hybrids, and do just fine. This is more about people like you buying into "OMG Y U NO FotM U SUCK" nonsense than it is about the actual effectiveness of the hybrids. In your opinion I'm sure you do. But this is an MMO...you play with other players, and the effectiveness of hybrids is either under powered or over powered. You'll still have choices in 3.0 that'll make you unique...you'll just be prevented from making the really dumb choices of today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 (edited) What is important to you such that losing hybrid specs will ruin your experience? Not trolling, but if you want empathy you need to elaborate. Being able to play the most self-sufficient character possible and experience as much of the content as possible without social drama or waiting around for other people or dealing with inept nonsense. Being able to play something other than the same damn character build that everyone else is playing at that moment. Edited October 9, 2014 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Being able to play the most self-sufficient character possible and experience as much of the content as possible without social drama or waiting around for other people or dealing with inept nonsense. You can do that with every pure-build... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 In your opinion I'm sure you do. But this is an MMO...you play with other players, and the effectiveness of hybrids is either under powered or over powered. You'll still have choices in 3.0 that'll make you unique...you'll just be prevented from making the really dumb choices of today. Less than 5% of my "combat" time, let alone total time, on SWTOR is spent with other players. There IS more to the game than grinding through progressive endgame content, constantly trying to get better gear so that you can play the next raid that gives you better gear so that you can play the next raid that gives you better gear that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orizuru Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 (edited) Being able to play the most self-sufficient character possible and experience as much of the content as possible without social drama or waiting around for other people or dealing with inept nonsense. Well isn't that ironic... Edited October 9, 2014 by Orizuru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Maybe hardcore raiding is the important thing for you, if that's all there was to do at max level I'd have quit the game a long time ago. It doesn't matter if it is or is not important to you or anyone else in particular, balance has to be done around endgame PVE and PVP. They're the only challenging and competitive/cooperative aspects of the game. If they're not balanced it all falls apart. If solo isn't balanced then no one cares. Funny, I play all hybrids, and do just fine. This is more about people like you buying into "OMG Y U NO FotM U SUCK" nonsense than it is about the actual effectiveness of the hybrids. Ironically, that asinine obsession with "The One True Build" is a large part of why I avoid endgame group play like the plague. You are deliberately handicapping yourself, I could do "just fine" by basic attacking my way through the story too. It doesn't mean that I'm actually being very effective. It's not an obsession with a "One True Build", it's how the class is designed. There is only one true way to spec a class and they are acknowledging that with the new system. You're just upset that you can't be special with your inferior spec anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Less than 5% of my "combat" time, let alone total time, on SWTOR is spent with other players. There IS more to the game than grinding through progressive endgame content, constantly trying to get better gear so that you can play the next raid that gives you better gear so that you can play the next raid that gives you better gear that... Well, then I really don't care what happens to you. You don't add to this games community, you can't think about what is best for the game long term and you seem stuck in your socially removed bubble, afraid to experience change. So....quit or stay....your presence in this game is unnoticed and unneeded by anyone but Bioware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Being able to play the most self-sufficient character possible and experience as much of the content as possible without social drama or waiting around for other people or dealing with inept nonsense. Being able to play something other than the same damn character build that everyone else is playing at that moment. If you don't play with anyone else then how do you know and why do you care what other people are playing compared to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 You can do that with every pure-build... I've tired it on several classes, too often feels like way too much of a 1-trick-pony to me. For example, my Sith Sorc is 24-7-15. It never holds me back in anything I want to do, and gives me a combination of healing, CC, AoE, and tricks to get through all the things I actually want to do, and isn't just another "Derp, I'm a healer!' or "Derp, I do lighting!" build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tatile Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 What is important to you such that losing hybrid specs will ruin your experience? Not trolling, but if you want empathy you need to elaborate. This^ I play "sole" tree builds because they're generally more effective at what they're supposed to (DPS, Heals, Tank) than the alternative - I like being effective because I don't enjoy failure. That's not to say that hybrid=auto fail, but in group content (which I enjoy) being the most effective I can be before player error and equipment failure (I was looking at cakes or lag) is what I think is best. Also, in solo content, I like stabbing things. Concealment is all stabby. Stabby stab. That's why I'm not "bummed" about the removal of hybrids, but just saying "group content isn't everything" doesn't really explain why a player likes hybrids, or why hybrids might preferable to "sole" trees, particularly when so much gets moved up the tree because of balance. I get that some people are angry that these changes are getting rid of hybrids, but I don't understand why people liked hybrids in the first place. How is the gameplay of them so significantly different - or personally better - than "sole" tree builds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 It doesn't matter if it is or is not important to you or anyone else in particular, balance has to be done around endgame PVE and PVP. They're the only challenging and competitive/cooperative aspects of the game. If they're not balanced it all falls apart. If solo isn't balanced then no one cares. This. The game is going to be balanced around the places where characters do interact. If a player decides to be more reclusive (aside from hopping on the forums?) to avoid drama, then they aren't part of the problem. But if the system affects group play in an MMO, you better expect it to be balanced. In fact, I'd feel the devs would be in the wrong if they didn't come up with a way to address potential imbalance with 5 new levels. Something had to be done; I'm not saying this is the perfect solution, but it seems reasonable and has actually been worked out fairly well (pending more information on dots, cleanses, etc)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gleneagle Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 Okay, so I did some sums for you; there are considerably more than that. Just out of the 3/2/2 builds, there at 15,435 possibilities. If you count all LEGAL builds -- 4/1/2, 6/0/1, etc. -- then there's 38,760.Math meets myth. Sorta takes all the mysticism outta the anguish... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 There was only one or two "right" ways to walk the tree, everything else just meant that you were doing it wrong and performed badly as a result ^this. For instance for Pyro Powertech there is only one spec. The only choice you ever really got was if you wanted to put two points in gyroscopic jets, extra endurance, or in cell proc on flamesweep, the other 44 skill points where set in stone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 If you don't play with anyone else then how do you know and why do you care what other people are playing compared to you? People talk about "best builds" and "focusing on one tree" all the time, it's easy to tell what other people are playing if you pay attention at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Killjoy Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 (edited) ^this. For instance for Pyro Powertech there is only one spec. The only choice you ever really got was if you wanted to put two points in gyroscopic jets, extra endurance, or in cell proc on flamesweep, the other 44 skill points where set in stone. I never payed any attention to any of that. I put my points where I felt like it, and if I never maxed out a tree, so be it. Edited October 9, 2014 by Max_Killjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 **** you too, ******e. I'm sorry, I don't understand...what was that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
azudelphi Posted October 9, 2014 Share Posted October 9, 2014 People talk about "best builds" and "focusing on one tree" all the time, it's easy to tell what other people are playing if you pay attention at all. It's called competition. We are either trying to win against other players or win against scripted challenges... to do so, you want to bring the best you can to the table for either of those encounters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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