LordArtemis Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) That's a given, taking either side of the argument couldn't possibly have a completely positive outcome. I also think it's redundant to discuss semantics (both of the issue and Eric's response) at this point because he stated that it's not possible to do the radical changes the vocal "victims" of this seem to want. Whether the GTN UI has room for improvement is another matter, but one that would have minimal impact on this issue IMO. The behavior of inattentive people is likely to stay the same unless they learn from mistakes, and no tweaks to the game will change that. Good post. I agree. With the stipulation that the "vocal victims" in this back and forth are both buyers AND sellers. Both desire protections, as evident by the ridiculous argument. Edited November 10, 2014 by LordArtemis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gomla Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Scammers find weaknesses and exploit them. The poor GTN UI is exploitable. Player stupidity is exploitable. I haven't lost millions by not paying attention, have you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pquadro Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Wow they exist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adovir Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I would accept people saying that they've been "scammed" if they had to sign a contract like in EVE. Honestly EVE is the only game out there that I know you can get legitimately scammed in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daxy Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 http://injury.findlaw.com/product-liability/the-mcdonald-s-coffee-cup-case-separating-mcfacts-from-mcfiction.html Liebeck v. McDonald's Restaurants Curious how the people didn't go into mcdonalds get a giant bucket of ice and pour it over the old lady's lap I remember the days when mcdonalds coffee was hot and so did everyone else who bought coffee back then except, apparently the old lady and kid; and everyone knew never to open the top immediately after purchase unless you were at the service counter - you certainly wouldn't try it inside a car The bottom line is common sense is not encouraged because there are hundreds of billions of dollars to be pilfered (Realize that mcdonalds passes on the costs of the lawsuit to its customers and we now are paying for this debacle) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psandak Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Exactly this!!! You go online and order a pizza, they're listed for: $5.00 and $499...you mistakenly purchase the one for $499 thinking it was $4.99. Sure...stupid mistake, but a mistake no less and one that was set-up with the intention of tricking you...hence a "scam". It's exploiting the UI shortcomings. But you are missing the step of the system prompting you "are you sure you want to spend $499 for a pizza?" And the buyer simply clicking yes without bothering to read. In the past two days alone, I have rethought my GTN purchases five times when that "are you sure" message popped up. Never because I misread the price, but the premise is the same: slow down and read the "are you sure" and chances are you won't get "scammed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximusRex Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Yeh, right. I lose 50 million (3 months of work!) to scammers, cs puts me on hold for a week and then, at the end, i get threats about getting banned if I will persist asking for help in this issue. Please, Eric. :l As Eric mentioned, buying things off the GTN is not a scam, and harassing CS over it should result in a ban. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximusRex Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Mockery, while fun at times, speaks more for you than it does those getting scammed. The population of which is Zero according to BioWare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Curious how the people didn't go into mcdonalds get a giant bucket of ice and pour it over the old lady's lap I remember the days when mcdonalds coffee was hot and so did everyone else who bought coffee back then except, apparently the old lady and kid; and everyone knew never to open the top immediately after purchase unless you were at the service counter - you certainly wouldn't try it inside a car The bottom line is common sense is not encouraged because there are hundreds of billions of dollars to be pilfered (Realize that mcdonalds passes on the costs of the lawsuit to its customers and we now are paying for this debacle) The temperature was SO hot back then you couldnt drink it right away. It was ridiculous IMO, so ridiculous that this was a common statement in the office.... Did you get that coffee from McDs? Yea Ok, someone get the ice cubes.... If you have to put an ice cube in a cup of coffee to drink it, something is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Whether the GTN UI has room for improvement is another matter, but one that would have minimal impact on this issue IMO. The behavior of inattentive people is likely to stay the same unless they learn from mistakes, and no tweaks to the game will change that. In the overall sense that people will continue to be inattentive we agree. However, I would disagree that changes to the UI would have little impact on the issue. I think one of the greatest reasons that these tactics works is because of how the information is displayed. Even a careless fool would have a hard time mistaking $123,456.00 and ___ $123.45 or $123,456 and ___ $123 Not so true for $123,456 and $123.45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chosonman Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) Link: Can anyone tell me which line is longer? This is kind of what happens when a) you've been looking at a computer screen for 8 hours and b) decimals and commas look identical. And one of the best numbers I found to replicate this effect is 210,008 .... The zeros and circles around the eight tend to confuse the eye. The person who might glance at this number may see 210.08 Edited November 10, 2014 by chosonman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 As Eric mentioned, buying things off the GTN is not a scam, and harassing CS over it should result in a ban. I don't believe he mentioned either of those statements. I do believe he generally stated that the pricing is an allowed practice, but did not directly state whether or not they consider it a scam. He most certainly said nothing about harassing CS to my knowledge. I think you might be exaggerating a bit...or perhaps paraphrasing too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 The population of which is Zero according to BioWare. BioWare has stated no such thing. Reread the post more carefully. They take no sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumperPenn Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 You should also pass on the possibility of doing something about me being in a rush or having a malfunctioning keyboard that ends up with me selling an item at a price that is significantly lower than it is currently selling on the GTN. If it isn't currently selling on the GTN then you should look into developing a database to track the prices of all items and make sure I don't sell it for less than the historical price of said item. Thank you for looking into protecting myself from making mistakes by not using the tools at my disposal and or taking my time to do the due diligence when selling an item. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jstankaroslo Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Haven't seen anyone applauding or even defending the people putting stuff up on sale on the GTN. Just people who keep saying "buyers beware" and that people need to start paying attention to what they are doing. I'm not saying it was you, but pay more attention and you'll find those posts. People speaking of "weeding out the stupid" were even in this small thread. On other threads there haven't been a page or two without some folks having high fives at this. Point is: legal or not, legitimate or not, against the rules or not -this is the wrong thing to do. Being happy about it, or about the fact that some people fall for this is just plain stupid. I usually avoid strong words, but seeing as this hurts the community, this games community -it is beyond me why someone can have joy of this. And I'm talking also about the people that "enjoy the thread". It is really obvious this is a serious problem for a fraction of players. And looking at the GTN one can clearly see it is a profit for suspect individuals, that prey on the weaker, inexperienced etc players. This is a practice that should not be possible in SWTOR. Everyone that cares for this game should be against it, not finding another excuses to justify/preserve the current state of things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 In the overall sense that people will continue to be inattentive we agree. However, I would disagree that changes to the UI would have little impact on the issue. I think one of the greatest reasons that these tactics works is because of how the information is displayed. Even a careless fool would have a hard time mistaking $123,456.00 and ___ $123.45 or $123,456 and ___ $123 Not so true for $123,456 and $123.45 I don't know. It could solve the issue for some folks, like price sorting did, but just like price sorting people came up with new issues. And I expect new ones will avail themselves if more changes are made. One of the reasons I do not campaign for changes that protect buyers or sellers. I have learned there is no conclusive way to do so with respect to the GTN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaximusRex Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Scammers find weaknesses and exploit them. The poor GTN UI is exploitable. Numbers are numbers are numbers, not being able to read numbers at the third grade level is not an exploit, at least not in a game rated T for Teen. GTN is a free market, where a seller is free to list at any price they want, this has always been the case, and as BioWare has confirmed, is not a "scam". The price is clearly listed in standard number formats that the entire 7 billion + population of the Earth manages to use on a daily basis, excepting for a few people who play this game it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howieloader Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Common sense prevails! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimG Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 There is no cure to prevent people from doing stupid things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grayseven Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 To be fair, I had my card info stolen after I activated it and before I used it for my first purchase. Thankfully my bank caught it as fraud as they noticed that it was a POS transaction in London which would be pretty hard for me to accomplish since I made purchases a couple hours later that day stateside. Yeah, the banks are pretty good about fixing those issues but it can take time. Instead, I use a separate bank account debit card and only transfer enough money into that account to cover the purchase I make. They may get the information, but they won't be able to do anything with it since I have the card set up with zero overdraft and I will get a notification if their is activity on the account not covered. It's just a more complicated "Are you sure?" button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gomla Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 There is no cure to prevent people from doing stupid things. Quoting because it needs repeating. People blaming other people for their own stupidity is getting old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunafox Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 If they can't tell, if someone is scamming or intentionally pricing their things for millions of credits over the regular price, then they are either blind or don't play their own game. I see this everytime I'm on the market looking for crafting items. Even an ordinary person like me can tell, when some doofus is hoping to part some poor tired or drunk schmuck from all their money by accident. It happens to the best of people, and something should be done to stop it. Typcial answer from the powers that be...just enough to placate people who are upset, but not enough to solve the problem. They should run for politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlthBounteHuntah Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Thank you for putting scam in quotes. Indeed. That made my day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverspar Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Ugh. [begin Rant] I really hate it when people use this example as if the famous lawsuit was somehow frivolous. The coffee in question was way, WAY, WAAAAAY too hot. The person it spilled on received third-degree burns and had to have skin grafts applied to her mutilated genitals. Please use a different example, because in this particular case the lawsuit was completely justified. [End Rant] Bzzzt, wrong. If you actually do look into the court case, which most people don't, the coffee was at the recommended FDA regulations. Most sane lawyers agree it was a frivolous lawsuit, and the only reason it won the case was on a technicality, not because the coffee was too hot. People who say the coffee was too hot are bleeding ignorant of the actual reality of the case. She won the case because evidently the technicality was because the coffee did not have warning labels on it and the lady was not "warned" by the employee that the coffee was hot, supposedly, not because the coffee was too hot. You would have to be a major dimwit to believe that coffee wouldn't be hot after just pouring it from a brewer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suromir Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Yes, you intended to buy the item, but you did not intend to spend hundreds of thousands of credits when you only intended to spend a few thousand. I love how you skipped over the part where he pointed out losing credits for forgetting a 0..and asked if the "buyer" scammed them? funny that. This thing is NOT a scam. And BioWare absolutely shouldn't bother with any kind of response..because they've responded before about such things....they're not getting involved. If you're too STUPID to pay attention and end up buying an item posted for some absurd amount..after having to CONFIRM IT AGAIN...then that's on YOU and absolutely NOT the fault of BioWare or even the seller. Take some responsibility for your own stupid actions for once and stop labeling everything YOU make a mistake on an "exploit" or "scam" or whatever. And no I've never listed an item like this. I ALWAYS look at the lowest like-item and undercut when I sell stuff on the GTN...so no I'm not saying this because I take advantage of it. Again...it's the buyers fault for not paying attention even after having multiple sorting options and having to CONFIRM it before it's finalized. Blame yourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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