Yet another game reports that Raiders and PVP players are a vast minority.....

[Vincire]

..snipped for space...

 

I too would like to see more links. I've always known that this was the case but I too would like to have more proof.

[LordArtemis]

Suggestion: If you are more concerned with a measured, competitive in-game achievement than you are with gameplay, story progression and character development elements, you are a competitor style player. If you are more concerned with the later, you are casual a creative style player.

 

Just suggesting the tone that does not imply a superiority of one style over the other. 'Casual' may mean a low time investment, but that can't be further from the truth for a lot of players who play regularly, put in long hours, but rarely touch competitive aspect of the game.

 

I understand your concern, but I do not find either term pejorative. Casual and Hardcore, at least based on the most common definitions I have seen in studies of MMO behavior (links have been provided in the past and in this thread I believe) define each as I have stated....in simple terms naturally.

 

The amount of time you spend playing the game does not matter IMO. Your driving reason to play is what defines you. This is not a demeaning classification IMO. It is simply descriptive.

[Erik_T]

 

A few points that Turbine reported with respect to LotRO....

1) Raiders make up a very small portion of the playerbase.

2) PvMP (their version of PVP) is a slightly larger group of players, but combined they still represent less than 10 percent of the base.

3) The vase majority of forum posters are Raiders and/or PvMP players.

 

Without knowing who they define as a "Raider" and how they counted them that is a completely meaningless and useless statistic.

 

Is it counted over all accounts or only active accounts?

Does it count characters or accounts?

Does the term 'raider' include everybody who has ever tried running a raid, or just those people who run several raids every week?

Does it include people who never run raids as such, but which do ordinary group content on a regular basis?

 

The answers to those questions, and other like them, make a big difference to what conclusions can be drawn. (And please don't make any assumptions along the line of "Oh, obviously they must mean ....". In my experience that would be unwise.)

 

Good luck finding answers to them - despite repeated requests on their forums Turbine has never, to the best of my knowledge, gone into any details on how their statistics are derived.

 

(And for some additional context: The claims from Turbine were given as a reason behind their recent admission to not planning any new traditional group content at all for the foreseeable future. They also claim that the percentage of people they count as 'raiders' have remained fairly constant throughout LOTRO's lifetime, but in previous years that did not prevent them from making raids and group instances.)

[LordArtemis]

I too would like to see more links. I've always known that this was the case but I too would like to have more proof.

 

I can scrounge up more for folks when I have time. Probably later today. But off the top of my head I can provide some basic sources for general knowledge....

 

http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/

 

http://gamestudies.org/1302

 

http://mmoresearch.blogspot.com/

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/danieltack/2012/11/30/studying-player-commitment-to-mmorpgs/

 

http://www.cyberpsychology.eu/index.php

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/130257/addiction_and_the_structural_.php

 

Not sure if all of the links still work, but those are the ones I have in my work browser.

 

Most of the studies conducted over the last 10 years are released as PDFs...I will find the links I have posted in the past and see if they are still valid....if not I will try and repost them from my personal files. I can also check with my boss to see if he will allow me to post our own contracted studies, perhaps with some required redaction.

Edited July 8, 2014 by LordArtemis

[DomiSotto]

Compare the wording: hardcore/reward vs casual/fluff. The first implies commitment and drive, the second - laziness and non-seriousness. But your creative player invests time in the backstory, interaction, co-creating the storyline, engages into fanfcition fora etc. I dunno, I wish there was more cross-road content that would bring the styles together and where more of a middle-of-the road player may thrive, rather than polarizing the game. Hmm.

[LordArtemis]

Without knowing who they define as a "Raider" and how they counted them that is a completely meaningless and useless statistic.

 

Is it counted over all accounts or only active accounts?

Does it count characters or accounts?

Does the term 'raider' include everybody who has ever tried running a raid, or just those people who run several raids every week?

Does it include people who never run raids as such, but which do ordinary group content on a regular basis?

 

The answers to those questions, and other like them, make a big difference to what conclusions can be drawn. (And please don't make any assumptions along the line of "Oh, obviously they must mean ....". In my experience that would be unwise.)

 

Good luck finding answers to them - despite repeated requests on their forums Turbine has never, to the best of my knowledge, gone into any details on how their statistics are derived.

 

(And for some additional context: The claims from Turbine were given as a reason behind their recent admission to not planning any new traditional group content at all for the foreseeable future. They also claim that the percentage of people they count as 'raiders' have remained fairly constant throughout LOTRO's lifetime, but in previous years that did not prevent them from making raids and group instances.)

 

Turbine is known for holding exact numbers "close to the chest", so to speak. I understand that players are skeptical, and perhaps for good reason.

 

However, I disagree that it is meaningless and useless. It is certainly more meaningful and useful than a forum member indicating that "Raiders and PVPrs make up the majority of players" based on nothing but assumptions. Or better yet, a complete lack of any information at all.

 

Not to mention the fact that this generally falls in line with a number of studies on the subject that actually define the criteria used to determine the study conclusions.

 

That is not to say your point is not valid. It is only to say your dismissal of the information as equal to something that is meaningless is silly at best IMO. It is a general statement, and that stands with a general concession that no hard numbers are given, nor criteria for definition, so one must keep that in mind when drawing conclusions.

 

It was a report that another game had REPORTED that Raiders and PVP players are a minority of the playerbase...which is, in fact, what occurred. Readers are welcome to draw their own conclusions.

[LordArtemis]

Compare the wording: hardcore/reward vs casual/fluff. The first implies commitment and drive, the second - laziness and non-seriousness.

 

Again, I would state you are applying that negative connotation. I am a casual player, and I do not find that my pursuit of content, fluff if you will, is insulting or indicates laziness. It indicates a desire to be entertained. I am less concerned with reward and/or recognition, but respect those that reach those accomplishments.

 

But your creative player invests time in the backstory, interaction, co-creating the storyline, engages into fanfcition fora etc. I dunno, I wish there was more cross-road content that would bring the styles together and where more of a middle-of-the road player may thrive, rather than polarizing the game. Hmm.

 

Really a rather bleak example I admit, but I would think that tactical flashpoints could stand as an example of your point...a good point btw IMO....as something that can bring hardcores and casuals together.

 

I maxed out my weekly rep for the first time EVER in this game. That should say something. I do not raid as a general rule.

[MSchuyler]

An AMAZING thread! Thanks to the OP. He has provided source documentation, including academic studies, longitudinal surveys, company reports, etc, that prove, beyond a shadow if a doubt, his main contention: PvP players are a vocal minority, and what do we get in the way of responses?

 

"From my perspective down here in the basement I believe all these studies are invalid because I don't like their conclusions."

 

And what is their argument? Basically that some study, which they have not read, must have skewed its research because it did not take into account "X" and therefore the study is invalid.

 

Uh huh. Right. Bzzt, thanks for playing.

[CKNORTH]

An AMAZING thread! Thanks to the OP. He has provided source documentation, including academic studies, longitudinal surveys, company reports, etc, that prove, beyond a shadow if a doubt, his main contention: PvP players are a vocal minority, and what do we get in the way of responses?

 

"From my perspective down here in the basement I believe all these studies are invalid because I don't like their conclusions."

 

And what is their argument? Basically that some study, which they have not read, must have skewed its research because it did not take into account "X" and therefore the study is invalid.

 

Uh huh. Right. Bzzt, thanks for playing.

 

Basicly all study's are non conclusive because they are funded by company's to sell a product, so in other words they are bias at best...

[Tsillah]

Again, I would state you are applying that negative connotation. I am a casual player, and I do not find that my pursuit of content, fluff if you will, is insulting or indicates laziness. It indicates a desire to be entertained. I am less concerned with reward and/or recognition, but respect those that reach those accomplishments.

 

Really a rather bleak example I admit, but I would think that tactical flashpoints could stand as an example of your point...a good point btw IMO....as something that can bring hardcores and casuals together.

 

I maxed out my weekly rep for the first time EVER in this game. That should say something. I do not raid as a general rule.

 

Well, try this then. I am an altoholic in the first place. I have 20 characters of which 16 are at level 55. I love leveling characters, probably more than doing endgame. However I do also enjoy endgame. I am however not as driven to get the highest possible gear. I do have one character in full 180 gear (optimised with set bonuses so I've done actual HM content) but I will get around to 186 when I get around to it. Not in a hurry for that yet. All my level 55s except the two latest ones are fully augmented. The most recent two will follow shortly.

 

So what am I saying. I do endgame and I like my characters to have a minimum gear level which is definitely higher than the average casual player and I do like to do challenging endgame content. However it's not something that I am in a rush to get. I do it when I get around to it.

 

So on the one hand I am very much casual in my approach but at the same time I don't feel like I am really casual and I certainly am not driven enough to qualify for hardcore.

 

But you tell me where that puts me in terms of your rather more black and white division between hardcore and casual. I am interested also because I don't think I am the only one who does endgame but isn't that driven to warrant being called hardcore.

[jorill]

i think hardcore to casual is a difficult thing to define because it means different things to different people. I think in terms of the study it most likely means time involved per week since those are the easiest data points to quantify. I would say you would have to raid 2x a week a min to be considered on that level.

 

To me it starts with time played but also means someone who also strives to clear the toughest content, min/max their character. There is nothing wrong with being a hardcore player if thats how you want to play as long as you arent an *** about it to other people.

[Vincire]

If a particular type of content doesn't see enough participation to justify ROI, then the developers should either adjust the content to become more accessible to more of their players, innovate something new, or scrap it all together. It's a shame that Turbine isn't producing more raids (though I am not surprised). Instead of scrapping them, they should redesign the experience to be more inclusive so that it serves as a catalyst in bringing players together instead of forming guild microcosms.

 

I used to love the public events in games like Warhammer Online and I can see a future in "Raids" morphed into large event like encounters with queues in future mmos.

[CKNORTH]

Well, try this then. I am an altoholic in the first place. I have 20 characters of which 16 are at level 55. I love leveling characters, probably more than doing endgame. However I do also enjoy endgame. I am however not as driven to get the highest possible gear. I do have one character in full 180 gear (optimised with set bonuses so I've done actual HM content) but I will get around to 186 when I get around to it. Not in a hurry for that yet. All my level 55s except the two latest ones are fully augmented. The most recent two will follow shortly.

 

So what am I saying. I do endgame and I like my characters to have a minimum gear level which is definitely higher than the average casual player and I do like to do challenging endgame content. However it's not something that I am in a rush to get. I do it when I get around to it.

 

So on the one hand I am very much casual in my approach but at the same time I don't feel like I am really casual and I certainly am not driven enough to qualify for hardcore.

 

But you tell me where that puts me in terms of your rather more black and white division between hardcore and casual. I am interested also because I don't think I am the only one who does endgame but isn't that driven to warrant being called hardcore.

 

Well I can say that the lines of casual and hardcore have been changed over the years, most people these days don't have the hours in a day to keep the term hardcore, however even if you are in a top raiding guild with several characters with the highest gear to make all other gear trivial, it can still be done in "this" game at a casual pace. I think the wow episode of South Park was close to a satyr of what hardcore "use" to be.. "Poopsock" was pretty much how it seemed anyone who was hardcore had to have one... Long time ago in other games the top guilds had to compete in a very extreme race to down a boss before another guild could lay claim to it, the mobility and kill time was incredible, to say the least, also some of the bosses were on a week or longer spawn time, guilds had to scout zones, find the boss, then mobilize, prep, buff, and engage in a matter of minutes. And the core guilds basically had the bosses on "lockdown" meaning that when the boss spawned, it was dead seconds later.... This is still true in a specific game... But today well you can spend all day from dusk till dawn and still be considered casual...

[RVallant]

Only read the first few pages but I just wanted to catch some perceived elitism and I'll apologise if someone already tackled it.

 

Point: Just because people don't like PVP/Raid or whatever does NOT make them a casual gamer.

 

There's plenty of people who like to solo, or who just want to experience the story-side of things. Not everyone facerolls from 1-50 and spacebars through every conversation to get glibs and stick other players in the back with a sharp pointy object.

 

Also, plenty of people don't have the time to hang about and raid/PvP, plenty can't be bothered with the attitudes of some groups, others simply don't find PvPing or big wiped group content that much fun. It doesn't make them a casual gamer by any stretch of the imagination. There's plenty who can dip into both categories and choose not to.

 

Really, if the statistics about raiders/PvP is as low as the claims are, then it's not really surprising. There's been an obsession from developers and game designers for 'multiplayer' (on consoles in particular) and PvP for a while and it usually ends poorly because they give it far too much importance than it warrants.

 

Don't get me wrong now, PvP and raids and all that jazz has its place in an MMO, but it's not everyone's cup of tea and not everyone is fixated on items/gear and so on and so forth. But it always amuses me that its given the priority as end-game content, I can understand why, it's cheap and easy, but most MMO's falter at this point and it's the one particular consistent across the board. I think they (well everyone really) needs to approach the 'end-game' at a new angle and that aside, needs to have a greater focus on maintaining the PvE over the PvP rather than the other way round.

 

One last thing to note is that, TOR followed on from two very story-driven, single-player centric games. That audience has to be taken into account, though I do wonder if they're even around at this stage anymore.

[MaximusRex]

Without knowing who they define as a "Raider" and how they counted them that is a completely meaningless and useless statistic.

 

Is it counted over all accounts or only active accounts?

Does it count characters or accounts?

Does the term 'raider' include everybody who has ever tried running a raid, or just those people who run several raids every week?

Does it include people who never run raids as such, but which do ordinary group content on a regular basis?

 

The answers to those questions, and other like them, make a big difference to what conclusions can be drawn. (And please don't make any assumptions along the line of "Oh, obviously they must mean ....". In my experience that would be unwise.)

 

Good luck finding answers to them - despite repeated requests on their forums Turbine has never, to the best of my knowledge, gone into any details on how their statistics are derived.

 

(And for some additional context: The claims from Turbine were given as a reason behind their recent admission to not planning any new traditional group content at all for the foreseeable future. They also claim that the percentage of people they count as 'raiders' have remained fairly constant throughout LOTRO's lifetime, but in previous years that did not prevent them from making raids and group instances.)

 

Turbine isn't going to reveal how they derive the data because that is considered a trade secret. And while they did do raids in the past, never very many, and they had a bigger staff. The basis of Turbines argument is raids alone aren't profitable to make, and your counterargument is they're lying, and want to stop making content that is profitable for them.

 

Blizzard said before they made LFR mode for solo players to get easy epics that only about 5% of their population was raiders. That keys into about what Turbine was saying. Considering that WoW was made by EQ raiders to be primarily a more accessible raiding platform, and they only had about a 5% raiding population, why would LOTRO, a game that while having raids, has never had many, and certainly has never catered to the raiding population, have a larger % of a raiding population then the raiding focused game had?

[Daekarus]

I think one thing that people are missing about the relevance of the information from Turbine is the game company gathering the data, the people who actually matter and make the decisions, have enough faith in the criteria, definitions, and data that they are basing decisions which will determine the future of their company on them.

 

That doesn't mean that everyone will agree with every parameter and every detail, but it means the people that have the numbers and have the data believe it is representative of reality. We have a great deal less information about EVERYTHING - isn't it a bit presumptuous to think we know better?

[ekwalizer]

attitude like yours is exactly the reason why I'll never try an operation. Although my gear is around 140 or more on several characters, I don't want to feel rejected because I'll make mistakes. The player you mentioned made a mistake on gear, somebody else might aggro something by mistake etc.

Point is, when having a good time playing a game nobody wants to hear from group of people they're useless and should go away.

Don't you think it might be a reason for low number of raiders, long queues and such?

Endgame seems to be dominated with people dismissing others on bad gear, bad gameplay etc and it discourages the masses to try these aspects of the game.

 

It isn't a matter of "you are useless go away". It's a matter of some people's ego not letting them take a little constructive criticism because their mother told them they were a unique and perfect snow-flake.

 

It's a matter of you are not geared for this content. Be a responsible participant and gear up to the minimum.

 

The quest display when you select the daily/weekly tells you what the recommended gear score is for the content. There is NO excuse for someone to be hopelessly under-geared in a HARD MODE. Period, dot, end of discussion.

 

Once you are geared, be willing to LEARN. It really is that simple. Put forth a little effort to get the right gear score and then research what it is you'll be doing and how to do it. Follow that up with put on your thick skin and take orders/course corrections. It isn't personal even if it seems like it is.

Edited July 8, 2014 by ekwalizer

[DarthOvertone]

A few points that Turbine reported with respect to LotRO....

1) Raiders make up a very small portion of the playerbase.

2) PvMP (their version of PVP) is a slightly larger group of players, but combined they still represent less than 10 percent of the base.

3) The vase majority of forum posters are Raiders and/or PvMP players.

 

I played LOTRO regularly when it launched and continued to do so for 3-4 years. It should come as no surprise for a game like LOTRO that the hardcore raider and PvP player base would be small, mainly because the game rarely had any Raid or PvP content.

 

Raiding in LOTRO usually consisted of ONE endgame raid that could be done at any given time, and it had a weekly lockout. At it's peak, LOTRO had two active endgame raids, Helegrod and The Rift. Subsequent expansions usually released with minimal raid content, i.e. one raid, if any at all. The most recent expansion didn't even include any raid content.

 

PvP is even worse. PvP in LOTRO has always been focused into one sandbox open world map called the Ettenmoors. The sandbox style and raiding capability made the PvP there palatable and fun for a few years. However, poor class balancing, a pay-to-win store, and the lack of any significant changes to the map itself over a span of 6-7 years, (or however long it's been), has resulted in some of the worst PvP in any MMO.

 

Point being...if you are an MMO title that doesn't churn out any new PvP content or hardcore Raider content, like Turbine's LOTRO, it should come as no surprise that PvPers and Raiders don't play your game.

[Kackman]

Now, note....though 14 games and counting now have reported the same thing at different times over the last 10 years, that does not mean this game is typical...it is still possible that this game breaks the mold, so to speak, and has a majority PVP and/or Raid playerbase.

 

There are a few things that stand out that might point to this possibility....first, this game does not have a typical cash flow setup with respect to F2P/Sub players and who pays the most, and also the fact that this game now has casual friendly raids and has had bolster for PVP for a while now.

 

But as time passes, more studies are released and more games go public with playerbase information, IMO it becomes less and less likely.

 

A few points that Turbine reported with respect to LotRO....

1) Raiders make up a very small portion of the playerbase.

2) PvMP (their version of PVP) is a slightly larger group of players, but combined they still represent less than 10 percent of the base.

3) The vase majority of forum posters are Raiders and/or PvMP players.

 

That is the 14th public source I have provided from the MMO market so far, as I promised to do long ago when I was challenged to prove that Raiders and PVP players are a minority of the playerbase, generally speaking, in MMOs (unless they are PVP focused). I would once again call to those that asked me to provide this info....here is your next bit.

 

Source

 

I will continue to post more information, as well as links to two new studies that are being released shortly for the 2013/2014 market in December. I expect the results will be typical. I will also try to find those prior links I posted if needed.

 

I'm not going through 17 pages to see if someone has already pointed this out to you, but your "source" - the CM for LOTRO - is well known in LOTRO circles for twisting words and facts to suit his purpose. Shorter version: he lies, a lot.

 

By one measure, the "less than 10%" figure is probably correct, if one considers all the people who have ever spent at least 1 second playing LOTRO as the denominator used to figure the percentage. Tons of people never make it to level cap, meaning tons of people never even have the opportunity to raid or PVP (PVP in LOTRO is essentially level cap only).

 

By a more reasonable measure - taking the number of level cap players as the denominator - the percentage of players who raid or PvP in LOTRO is certainly higher. However, since Turbine never shares its numbers, all we have to go on is the CM's word, and the CM is quite fond of playing the "I know things that you don't know" game, even going so far as to claim that user-provided login statistics - scraped from Turbine's very own servers - are complete fabrications.

 

I'm sure that in all MMOs raiders and PvPers are a minority. I'm also sure that every other niche playstyle (RP, solo-only folks, crafting specialists) is also a minority.

 

Turbine decided in the last couple years to forgo having traditional group content, and the game has suffered for it. The population declined severely, entire kins (guilds) up and left the game, and pretty much every server is a ghost of its former self. Deciding to completely alienate an entire section of players had predictable results.

 

The oft-lying CM of LOTRO claims that raiders and PvPers are this tiny percentage of players - and yet without new group content and without any PvP development the population of the game declined by far more than a tiny percentage. Take that as you will.

[Kackman]

I think one thing that people are missing about the relevance of the information from Turbine is the game company gathering the data, the people who actually matter and make the decisions, have enough faith in the criteria, definitions, and data that they are basing decisions which will determine the future of their company on them.

 

That doesn't mean that everyone will agree with every parameter and every detail, but it means the people that have the numbers and have the data believe it is representative of reality. We have a great deal less information about EVERYTHING - isn't it a bit presumptuous to think we know better?

 

Turbine has had two sets of massive layoffs in the last two years. The game population is at an all-time low - even lower than right before it went F2P. The recent expansion went on sale less than two months after launch - previous expansions never went on sale sooner than 5-6 months after launch, if even that soon.

 

Turbine may have all the data, but it's been pretty terrible at deciding what to do with it over the last few years.

[jrwellworth]

It isn't a matter of "you are useless go away". It's a matter of some people's ego not letting them take a little constructive criticism because their mother told them they were a unique and perfect snow-flake.

 

It's a matter of you are not geared for this content. Be a responsible participant and gear up to the minimum.

 

The quest display when you select the daily/weekly tells you what the recommended gear score is for the content. There is NO excuse for someone to be hopelessly under-geared in a HARD MODE. Period, dot, end of discussion.

 

Once you are geared, be willing to LEARN. It really is that simple. Put forth a little effort to get the right gear score and then research what it is you'll be doing and how to do it. Follow that up with put on your thick skin and take orders/course corrections. It isn't personal even if it seems like it is.

 

^^This^^ A million times this. I had a read through this thread and man, a few people make it seem like we have a special weekly mission [WEEKLY] Make two noobs cry in operations this week and make one person have a nervous breakdown due to gearing problems. Another thing I saw in this thread is entitlement. I'm sorry, but if you can't do the oricon story to get your entry level gear, but want to raid, then I wouldn't want you in an op with me, cause that tells me that you are lazy, or you don't care. I don't know about all the other raiders everywhere, but let me run down to you what we do, and a lot of people I know do.

 

If you wanna raid, and we meet in a pug or a group with friends that I helped or something, and you find you like it and wanna do it, then man, by all means say something. We are not mind readers, closed mouths don't get fed. This is something we did just recently. First off we talk, get to know ya, find out where your skill level is at. We will introduce you, if you don't already know, to stuff like teamspeak 3, even for story mode ops, when were training a new person, especially if you are a tank or a healer, I wanna be in voice communication.While I wouldn't say this is mandatory, it helps a lot, and it's a free download. We introduce them to parsec, also not a mandatory thing, but something that can really help you and give you an idea of things you need to work on. After that we work on your gear. I saw a lot of talk in this thread about the gear gate and "oh my gear is 140 and I shouldn't have to do any work to be able to take part in endgame content", or some such entitled malarkey.

 

When training a new person, my guild and other groups I know will take the person and we will run em through both story mode dreads, and give them every drop. After that you have a 4 piece set bonus, full arkanian and some underworld. Bada bing, your set for gear for a minute and can worry about learning your role and the mechanics of the fights you will be doing. Thats what is awesome about voice comm. A couple weeks ago, we took a new person and ran them through the dreads, in voip we gave instructions on their part (also could just as easily have been typed) we breezed through, they learned and they now have appropriate gear and no longer have to be carried.

 

It really is a bad call to judge raiders on the quality of pickup groups. A lot of the a-holes that will kick you for gear or harass you for being new in a pug group, well....think about it, if that person is sooo good and elite, then why doesn't he belong to a guild or a team? Might be because of his attitude and the way that person treats others. I know of a few people on my server that have to pug because of the way they act and no one that knows them want to raid with them. On another hand, a lot of people pug because they have real life time restrictions and they just wanna have an over geared group steam roll the content. If these people give you a hard time, then forget them, find the real raiding community on your server and get out there and meet people. This is a social game after all. And as I said, we cannot read your mind, make friends, ask for help, ask questions, don't let yourself be pushed around. There is a community of good people out there on your server, any server, and I bet they out-weigh the as*hats.

 

Sorry for the wall of text, I just was amazed by some of the attitudes in this thread. Also yes, hardcore raiders and pvpers and the minority, but who really cares who the minority is, I think most of us can agree that we would like to see more content for everyone, not just more raids, more pvp maps or more planets.

 

tl;dr: It's not a rant, but it is long, lol.

[CKNORTH]

Turbine has had two sets of massive layoffs in the last two years. The game population is at an all-time low - even lower than right before it went F2P. The recent expansion went on sale less than two months after launch - previous expansions never went on sale sooner than 5-6 months after launch, if even that soon.

 

Turbine may have all the data, but it's been pretty terrible at deciding what to do with it over the last few years.

 

Yeah I logged in a few months ago and it seemed that every zone up to Moria was a ghost town... I bet soon they may pull the plug IMO the only server that has active people is brandywine an all reality after the movies came out for lord of the rings they whole goblin and Orc titles seem to be over played and over done to the point most people that were the primary consumers are pretty much burnt out of the whole Genre, but that's from a point of view that use to play D&D with dice paper and a pencil Lol!

[Daekarus]

Yeah I logged in a few months ago and it seemed that every zone up to Moria was a ghost town... I bet soon they may pull the plug IMO the only server that has active people is brandywine an all reality after the movies came out for lord of the rings they whole goblin and Orc titles seem to be over played and over done to the point most people that were the primary consumers are pretty much burnt out of the whole Genre, but that's from a point of view that use to play D&D with dice paper and a pencil Lol!

 

I think this has a lot to do with it. The entertainment industry tends to oscillate between fantasy and SciFi on a multi-year period, and we are experiencing a definite trend away from fantasy the moment. In another decade the trend will reverse, but at the moment swords and sorcery are old news. Even though I never played LotRO, I never thought Middle Earth lent itself particularly well to an MMO to be honest... they should have set it in the Elder Days if they wanted the freedom to really be creative.

 

I say this as a person who can recite considerable portions of The Lord of the Rings verbatim, with different character voices.

[Lotharofxev]

The entertainment industry tends to oscillate between fantasy and SciFi on a multi-year period, and we are experiencing a definite trend away from fantasy the moment

 

Are you saying the Fantasy side took an 'arrow to the knee'?

[CKNORTH]

Are you saying the Fantasy side took an 'arrow to the knee'?

 

Omg!! LOL!!