Yet another game reports that Raiders and PVP players are a vast minority.....

[Uruare]

The short answer is "no". Gear progression in raiding is about being ready for the next difficulty of content. There is nothing "Casuals" or "non-Raiders" to do in this game that would need even 156, let alone beyond that. Of course people get full 180 without ever raiding "because i have OCD about having the best gear". We all want the best gear. Do not use someone elses condition as an excuse.

 

There should be some type of end game progression for those who do not like to raid, but not the same gear progression as raiding unless they design some content that requires that gear level.

 

I disagree with your unstated assumption that better gear isn't 'needed' by anyone not raiding. How does one define need? Literally? In that case, raiders don't need it either - they don't have it until they clear raids and get it, which makes clearing the same content easier.

 

Perceived need? Everyone has an understandable basis for perceiving a need for better gear, because just about everything there is to do in this game is made easier (read: more efficient) by having better gear.

 

The game experience is directly tied to such things as ones ability to go out into the game world and do things.

 

Do raiders need HE gear to do NiM? They don't have NiM gear going into NiM. Is NiM gear thereby a waste of developer time to even make because all of does is diminish the challenge of that level of raid content?

 

If you believe that people concerned with little more than doing Dailies don't need such gear, then you must silt the same reasoning to raiders.

 

Else, you're merely posturing a double standard that democrats nothing so much as a critical failure on your part to grasp an incontrovertible fact - we're all players, no matter what we spend our time in game doing.

 

We have no rights as such, but when the most functional gear comes only from the activities that are the most extraneous in their requirements, at minimum demanding that people join Guilds (that have no oversight, quality assurance or even the remotest of obligation toward consistency or responsibility on any level), download and utilize third part voice programs and spend sometimes hundreds of hours on homework to do with fight choreography as well as class optimization strategies.

 

Raiding itself is a miniscule aspect of what's involved in getting to even have a chance at the good gear in most games, and I, for one, think that's garbage.

 

Here in TOR, one can at least get that gear a bit later than to end raiders do, by alternative gearing paths. It's a good and I think eminently important compromise, because nobody will ever win the 'only raiders need raid gear' position until reality itself warps and the fundamental definition of 'need' changes at the existential level.

 

Everyone benefits equally by it in all content to which better gear is an applicable performance factor. There ends the discussion.

 

They clearly want to shove as many people intro raiding add they can, of course, because it's always ones Guilds and downs that keep them in a game longer than anything else, if anything does at all.

 

Unfortunately, we're getting collectively more resistant to carrots on sticks. Fewer ands fewer is us are willing to put up with needing to join a cult, get an associates degree in class optimization and raid choreography, then do the same one or two raids repeatedly for months.

 

It's dying out, because more and more games are becoming available that place their emphasis elsewhere.

 

Me? I'll never raid again. Why? Because I can go load up guild wars 2 and, inside five minutes, be out in world pvp. There's no gear grind for functionality's sake - is all vanity grind.

 

I've made legendaries on there (plural), which is way more of a grind than anything there is to do on TOR, but is a grind I get to do my way, on my own time. I don't need a guild to do it, and honestly, I love that.

 

Anet had figured out the sweet spot for someone like me, and the hilarity is that I wind up being much more socially involved for it BECAUSE I'M NOT BEING HERDED LIKE A FARM ANIMAL INTO IT.

 

I'm in Guilds on the that I want to be in because I like them. I don't need to put up with a guild I loath or am even merely uncaring about because I need them to do raids.

 

GW2 isn't some sort of perfect game, no, but in this respect? Compared to tor, it is as a god compared to an ignorant dirt farmer.

 

No contest. Here on TOR, I'd love to see all the raid content, and I've seen enough of it to know that they're good at storytelling in their raids.

 

It's almost a shame that I simply won't neglect anything in my life to male room for someone's raid guild. I don't have time to nurture and cultivate one of my own, and most of the rest I've been in mug be able to clear raids, but that's typically the end of all discussion to be had on their merit.

 

Last one I was in, the GM was a flagrant racist and she'd vertu much like an arrogant teenaged 'bro'. The misogyny, the childishness, the racism - Is have had to put up with all of it, to raid with those clowns.

 

One before it? Mandatory attendance to all guild functions (as scheduled by some kid on summer vacation with nothing better to do than play TOR all day, every day) as well as absolute obedience to whatever stupidity the GM felt like requiring that week.

 

Guilds van be just fine ands not comprised of utterly dysfunctional drama geysers, but frankly, is day that maybe one in ten I've ever been in, or been near enough to to have a solid opinion, we're my idea of decent.

 

I'm not all that picky either. I do have scheduling issues since my job, my wife and RL always come first, and no, your Saturday night raid schedule is not ands shall never be more important than date night with my wife.

 

No shortage of Guilds that expect you to have nothing going on except showing up when they want you either.

 

I'll never raid again in the classic formats because of it. It's a gorram hassle that's only ever been worth the bother when I had fun people to raid with.

 

I am not willing to sacrifice much in my schedule in order to raid. If I can't get at least most of what I want out of a game on my teems... my playstyle will not be altered or adapted.

 

I simply won't play that game. I will play the games that I can do at least moat of what is like to do in them at my idea is reasonable effort.

 

My idea of reasonable effort will probably never include putting up with extensive and forced social involvement with Darwin's grab bag of idiots, bungholes and windowlickers ever again.

 

I hate playing with racists, misogynists, 'bros' and similar.

 

So, I don't anymore. The end.

 

Oddly, I'm clearly not alone in this manner of refusal to be forced into social involvements I didn't want. I think it's getting to be rather a popular way to be.

 

Edit: more phone-induced garbled alert. I sure hope this new phone adapts quickly, because it sure likes to stick whatever nonsense it feels like into almost everything. Grrr...

Edited July 15, 2014 by Uruare

[RandomXChance]

I disagree with your unstated assumption that better gear isn't 'needed' by anyone not raiding. How does one define need? Literally? In that case, raiders don't need it either - they don't have it until they clear raids and get it, which makes clearing the same content easier.

.

 

I do not even need to go beyond that. If you can clear Nightmare Dread Fortress in 169 gear, then I concede your point. What solo content do you need 156 or greater? Easier and faster does not equal need. Need is when it is nearly impossible to clear content when undergeared. What is this load about "they don't have it until they clear raids"". You gain it from the previous level of content. What in the world are you going on about?

 

You are welcome to GW2, I detested it. That is why there is a market for different tastes.

 

Your posts would be much more effective with some editing. You go on rants and bounce so many different directions it is a real effort to follow. I actually agree with some of your sentiments when I can sort them out.

Edited July 15, 2014 by RandomXChance

[jorill]

The short answer is "no". Gear progression in raiding is about being ready for the next difficulty of content. There is nothing "Casuals" or "non-Raiders" to do in this game that would need even 156, let alone beyond that. Of course people get full 180 without ever raiding "because i have OCD about having the best gear". We all want the best gear. Do not use someone elses condition as an excuse.

 

There should be some type of end game progression for those who do not like to raid, but not the same gear progression as raiding unless they design some content that requires that gear level.

 

That isnt what they are saying. He is saying shouldnt they have their own progression maybe having like a lvl 55 of their class story or something for example that give them some type of progression. Currently the only progression is to follow group/ op gear progression. Im not even a solo player and i think they should have some form of progression maybe some gear that has presence in it.

[Infernixx]

I'd just like to point out that TOR seems very aware of the small number of hardcore Raiders as they've spent the last 7-8 months adding in new features to the game that aren't oriented toward that crowd. Tactical Flashpoints, GSF and now GSH. PVPers got some love with their new Season rewards and all that, too.

[jorill]

I'd just like to point out that TOR seems very aware of the small number of hardcore Raiders as they've spent the last 7-8 months adding in new features to the game that aren't oriented toward that crowd. Tactical Flashpoints, GSF and now GSH. PVPers got some love with their new Season rewards and all that, too.

 

i like the smaller groups for the flashpoints but i think they need to add more regular flashpoints as i feel the tactical ones are far too easy although i dont mind doing them once in a while. Maybe add a regular one to the new tactical ones they already have like the did with the two czerka ones

[Uruare]

I do not even need to go beyond that. If you can clear Nightmare Dread Fortress in 169 gear, then I concede your point. What solo content do you need 156 or greater? Easier and faster does not equal need. Need is when it is nearly impossible to clear content when undergeared. What is this load about "they don't have it until they clear raids"". You gain it from the previous level of content. What in the world are you going on about?

 

You are welcome to GW2, I detested it. That is why there is a market for different tastes.

 

Your posts would be much more effective with some editing. You go on rants and bounce so many different directions it is a real effort to follow. I actually agree with some of your sentiments when I can sort them out.

 

The word 'need' does not have an ambiguous meaning. I see it tossed around incessantly, usually by those making declarations about what others don't 'need'.

 

I cos may as easily say that the real raiders very well cos clear DF NiM in only 168, and if you can't, you're not a real raider. It'd be equally pugnacious, equally irrelevant and equally useless, as statements go.

 

Nobody 'needs' to play this game. Nobody 'needs' to do much of anything, and I'm not being pedantic here.

 

Gear in a game like this IS the main progression. Very nearly everything there is to do is directly influenced by gear.

 

Need? Game studios need money. If they don't sell the game experience enough people are willing to pay for to keep them afloat, they don't float.

 

Need? I'm not the only player with choices galore on what games will hey my money and which shall not. I don't need to put up with being forced into play styles I don't enjoy or social involvements I don't want, and the games that still try to herd people like they're cattle into raiding aren't winning these conflicts anymore.

 

I'm not alone in not needing to 'suck it up' and put up with a dozen things I hate in order to do the one thing I actually wanted to do anymore.

 

There's a common attitude that one must work in order to get things in these games. They're the closest thing to a career some have, I suppose, and I'll say this on all of it.

 

I don't need one damn thing here. Nobody does, in fact. They want us to do X, Y and Z in order to be able to raid? I find X to be obnoxious, Y to be a pointless and tiresome waste of time and Z to be boring as watching paint dry.

 

I won't raid anymore in that model. Never again. And if they agreed that nobody else could have gear anywhere near as good as that which raiders acquire?

 

I wouldn't play. I suspect I'm not alone there either, seeing as that they keep incrementally enabling us to get top end gear by small group activities.

 

They're probably not doing that because we non-raiders 'need it'.

 

Very little had anything to do with 'need', but very much to do with want.

 

Simple truth: if you're not selling what people want. .. they won't buy it.

 

Bioware? They need money. To get money, they need players to invest money into the game.

 

Technically, a player can do Dailies and hm fp's just fine in 148 gear. Better than just fine, really.

 

That doesn't MATTER. What matters is that Joe Player in 148 sees Jim Player in full 180 and goes 'Man, I want that! I could do all my find do much easier with gear that much better! '

 

The classic non answer is 'then Joe needs to do what it takes to get it'.

 

Amd if you think like that, you'd fail in the entertainment business, 'cause you'd be dead wrong. The merchant needs to figure out how both Joe and Jim Player can get what they want while giving the merchant what the merchant needs to provide it.

 

There is no other 'need' of relevance to discuss. Raiders don't 'need' gear that's monstrously more powerful than moat of what non raiders can get. That's just an old leaveover from outdated and obsolete reward systems that leverage functionality as the only real currency.

 

Need? Players don't play these games to feel like second class citizens, or mere peasants that only exist as an audience for those that have nothing but time to live in these games.

 

There's a lot of talk about how woeful it is, to stop catering to raiders.

 

I think it's joyous. I might yet see the day when an mmo realizes it's a game, not a career choice.

[RandomXChance]

I cos may as easily say that the real raiders very well cos clear DF NiM in only 168, and if you can't, you're not a real raider. It'd be equally pugnacious, equally irrelevant and equally useless, as statements go.

.

 

Um, no. The very hard DPS checks would make clearing NiM DF in 169 impossible. You really do not raid much these days do you?

 

Of course, everyone can get 180 gear these days from the comm vendors. It takes much longer without doing the ops for the Ultimate comms, but it is there. None of that pertinent here in this thread anyway.

Edited July 16, 2014 by RandomXChance

[LordArtemis]

So you don't think "Casuals" or "non-Raiders" should have a gear progression of their own to keep them interested when they hit level cap? I'll tell ya, "mini-games" are not enough to keep me playing my max level characters.

 

Well, others have spoke to this, I will offer my opinion if allowed....

 

It is not really a yes or no question, but if I was forced to answer in general terms I would say no. Casuals, by definition, are driven by content, not reward, and generally do not participate in traditional end game content.

 

Note that is VERY GENERAL....naturally it is not that cut and dry, there are many exceptions and many shades of gray, so to speak. Yes, I think some form of advancement is needed...that is what the leveling process is for. Supplement that with armor that you can plug in stats on your own and you have a casual dream IMO....get your desired look and keep your stats moving up so leveling is pleasant.

 

But I do not think that participating in end game content is a casual's goal or motivation...experiencing content is the general goal, entertaining one's self, etc.

 

Just my slant.

[Uruare]

Um, no. The very hard DPS checks would make clearing NiM DF in 169 impossible. You really do not raid much these days do you?

 

Of course, everyone can get 180 gear these days from the comm vendors. It takes much longer without doing the ops for the Ultimate comms, but it is there. None of that pertinent here in this thread anyway.

 

My point was that I could say it with the same mistaken conviction as that many say 'you don't need this gear', and be equally wrong.

 

The very term 'need' was misapplied from the very start. You don't need NiM gear to do NiM, right? It makes it easier to farm it, and incidentally makes everything else in the game to which gear is relevant that much easier too.

 

Joe Player that doesn't raid can get very nice gear here, and that's important. Games that make second class citizens out of players that can't, won't or simply don't join a cult, drink the Kool aid and pledge to get their associates degrees in character optimization and raid choreography asap aren't doing so well with that methods anymore.

 

They're probably never going to do so again, not because raiding is bad, but because the classical approach to implementing it pretty much makes it be a matter of 90% jumping through hoops and 10% actually raiding.

 

That's fun? Maybe some think so. Me? Those like me, in whatever quantity that happens to be? Never again.

 

It seems like I'm not in a minority when it comes to aggressively avoiding such things either.

 

I think they should restructure the whole system in terms of its reward structures. Let access to even top functionality gear be rather easy, so even the laziest lalala derpmeister of a player can have their shinies and go around still struggling with Dailies because they refuse to use more than one row of buttons.

 

 

Reward raiders with things like, oh...world first statues of their characters somewhere. Only one world first in the game though, eh? Get it and your raid team will be immortalized in the game world somewhere on your home server, in statue form.

 

Server firsts? Your raid team will be immortalized in holostatue form on a hall of heroes on fleet, with a little plaque commemorating your guild's name (incentive to not name your guild stupid things) and the date of their achievement.

 

In terms of standard rewards, vanity is a wonderfully safe thing to exploit. They could really jazz up raid gear shells, make them unique. With strongholds and capital ships coming up, they could put all sorts of unique vanity stuff in raids for your house and your ship.

 

They're moving in all of those directions, too. More and more with every update, they lean increasingly in such directions.

 

I'm delighted to see it.

Edited July 16, 2014 by Uruare

[Kalfear]

Originally Posted by Rehneu View Post

I am curious, if those two things are hardly taking place, what are people doing?

 

Well, I speak for myself, but on this game I find my play time being spent on leveling alts, seeing all the class stories, playing them from different perspectives (Gender, light/dark side.) Recently I have been trying to get into end game stuff, but I keep going back to my many alts.

 

Speaking for myself I originally left game for a multitude of reasons but the main one was my right shoulder was junk and needed surgery to fix and was causing massive pain while playing (and as we all know, when your in pain, everything else gets amplified so small issues suddenly felt huge)

 

But now shoulder fixed and rehab of it half over I find my game time expanding and still I have yet to step foot in a PVP warzone (ive done flagged pvp on Oricon numerous times, just no desire to play SW:TOR PVP Warzones junk) or an ops of any type.

 

And honestly the better my shoulder feels, the more I play. And still have no desire or intention to do PVP or Ops. I might at some point help out friends when they short a healer or DPS in their ops run. But that would be about helping them, not about being interested in doing ops content.

 

I fill my time right now doing the CZ/Oricon/Makeb Weekly on 4 different characters

Running a single tactical each day on 4 characters

Trying to get a hard mode flashpoint each day on 3 characters

and playing alts up as well as unlocking achievements and titles

 

Bounty hunter week kept me pretty busy running 9 characters a day through bounties and kingpins (along with helping out people in need of aid for bounties I was close by to)

 

And generally socializing and having fun and laughter while in game

 

All that makes up for a pretty fun filled day every day

 

Only going to get busier with housing content

[thewitchdoctor]

Joe Player that doesn't raid can get very nice gear here, and that's important. Games that make second class citizens out of players that can't, won't or simply don't join a cult, drink the Kool aid and pledge to get their associates degrees in character optimization and raid choreography asap aren't doing so well with that methods anymore.

 

Wow. I think YOU have drank some of your own 'Koolaid,' there.

 

If you did in fact raid in the past, then you know fully well what point RandomXChance is trying to make. And your argument here seems to show that you have either an agenda or a chip on your shoulder (or both).

[thewitchdoctor]

So you don't think "Casuals" or "non-Raiders" should have a gear progression of their own to keep them interested when they hit level cap? I'll tell ya, "mini-games" are not enough to keep me playing my max level characters.

 

I am reaching back into time to early 2011, I think, when Turbine's LOTRO introduced 'Legendary' weapons. These may be, with some serious refinement, a good casual's progression item.

 

The gist was you could find or buy Legendary weapons all over the place. (Not particularly legendary-sounding, huh?) You then leveled them to unlock better attributes and bonuses. It was like leveling a weapon (up to 6 at a time?) all while leveling yourself.

 

Anyways, in theory, a max-level Legendary weapon would be pretty bad-arse and worthy of the time it took to level it.

 

Now, as I recall, it was just an unseen grind. You slotted it and played and ocsasionally it dinged. Then you went to the Legendary Weapon Trainer guy. So, like I said, plenty of room for refinement. BUT ... it could be a good idea. Especially, if instead of being a dime-a-dozen, a Bounty Hunter had an epic kick-butt solo quest where (s)he found the barely-functional blaster of the first winner of the Great Hunt! (Or as applicable to each class) And then proceeded to find rare bits and bobs to get it working again. And then used it to sow havoc across the galaxy!

[Damask_Rose]

Just a little aside on why non-raiders might feel the need for top end gear: There is a subset of solo players who enjoy pushing themselves by clearing harder and harder group content. Just like clearing ops, it is easier to solo HM Flashpoints and world bosses in better gear.

[thewitchdoctor]

But finding those bits and bobs would not be a rehash of the HK quests which now, after the rush, are a royal pain in the tookus. Edited July 16, 2014 by thewitchdoctor

[thewitchdoctor]

Just a little aside on why non-raiders might feel the need for top end gear: There is a subset of solo players who enjoy pushing themselves by clearing harder and harder group content. Just like clearing ops, it is easier to solo HM Flashpoints and world bosses in better gear.

 

Oh, I don't think RandomXChance would disagree. I think he has a solid point he is just not so elegantly making it.

 

But, of course, everyone can use better gear. This is a gear-progression-based MMO, after all. And, honestly, the difference between 180-comm gear and 180-token gear isn't that much. A few points more in Endurance and a few less in your role's damage/healing/mitigation stat isn't going to cripple any non-raider (or raider, for that matter, unless your block to clearing content is that close that those few points do count [excluding, obviously, the potential boon from a set bonus]). All-in-all, except for those who will not group at all, I think TOR does a pretty good job of making nearly-best gear available to almost all.

 

EDIT: Yes, yes, some of the comm pieces have stoopid stats. But each one has, typically a glove, that is median-priced and has a useful enhancement to replace the Alacrity one with. Grind is a grind!

Edited July 16, 2014 by thewitchdoctor

[Uruare]

Wow. I think YOU have drank some of your own 'Koolaid,' there.

 

If you did in fact raid in the past, then you know fully well what point RandomXChance is trying to make. And your argument here seems to show that you have either an agenda or a chip on your shoulder (or both).

 

Or it demonstrates my fondness for hyperbole, though forum psychologists tend not to really know what that actually is.

 

In any event, Herr doktor, I've been part of many raid Guilds in myriad games over my many years of gaming. I can remember those that were comprised of mostly well adjusted and my idea of sane people on two fingers.

 

Two, is how many that is for the mathematically impaired.

 

On the other hand, I could fill a book with recollections of the insanity, stupidity, immaturity and ineptitude of dozens more.

 

And competetive things bring it the best in so many, truly (sarcasm alert).

 

Like I've said elsewhere, the best ones I've been in were laid back, not trying too hard, not making drama out of scheduling problems ands generally not being toads about anything.

 

The worst? I remember one that was run by a husband and wife, and it was all about them. It was their little cult of personality, in which all the cool kids constantly praised the GM wife's amazingness no matter what she did, and awaited the coveted praise from their benevolent all-father GM overlord.

 

They seemed like very nice people at first. Good raiders.

 

Alas, the wife liked to erp, and so did her husband, just not with eachother insofar as I ever knew. An unstated rule in that guild was that you'd probably have to erp with one or the other of them eventually, depending on your gender, and if you knew what was good for you, you'd go with it.

 

they'd make your life easier if you gave them pr0n. Reject them?

 

Sure. No problem. Totally fine. Nobody had to do anything they aren't comfortable with.

 

Purely by chance, you've been bumped from this Thursdays raid. We're going to take the new guy, he's needs some gear and raid experience. You understand, right?

 

Oh, and you've been demoted while offline and can't access the gbank anymore. Yeah, There've been problems with some of the officers, and we're just looking out for the guild. You understand, right?

 

Gosh, you rolled super for this piece of gear you need. But see, the other tank asked me just yesterday if we could reserve this for her. I know you rolled it, but I gave her my word. You understand, right?

 

I understand perfectly.

 

If you don't. ..well, may your fortune hold awhile longer, because there's no shortage of bastards, crazies and psychos in these games.

 

And plenty of them run Guilds.

 

fair warning to ya there. You seem to perhaps need it.

Edited July 16, 2014 by Uruare

[Lotharofxev]

Urare, you seem quick to dispense with the "crazy, immature," etc. diagnosis. Are you a trained mental health professional?

[thewitchdoctor]

*Snipped*

 

Ah, gotchya. You had a bad experience or four and so all raiders and guilds are bad.

 

Noted and noted.

[Vincire]

I have no desire for "Raid" gear as a solo player. I want a different experience with a different loot progression as appropriate to a new kind of content.

 

I would love to see something like the following:

 

* A new "Solo Raid Mode" which is basically a retooling of the instance for solo/duo play. This satisfies the tiers of difficulty and therefore the need for gear progression.

* Loot progression is based around Presence Gear for your character AND Companion Gear.

 

There are several benefits to this. The player will be able to see and participate in content the devs have already produced, scaling down the content should be easier than creating something entirely new, and provides a source of content for players who don't like to raid or do tons of group content. Since the gear progression is entirely different, it won't infringe on the raider's ego by "handing out free welfare epics" for "no effort". The content would have a different target audience and the gear would have a different purpose.

 

In the end, we all love this game and want to continue to be entertained by it but have different preferences as to what we enjoy. Currently, solo players at level cap don't have much that is interesting or new within the confines of their playstyle and I think this idea satisfies that.

Edited July 16, 2014 by Vincire

[Prototypemind]

As someone stated previously, the contention that only a minority of players have ever touched end game or PvP content seems baseless and there have yet to be clear statistics presented here that I've seen. If I've missed them I'd be happy to retract that if I'm wrong, but it seems that in general most casuals still engaged in both on a somewhat regular basis. The assertion that Op/PvP-centric players are the most involved on the forums and care not about other things doesn't really pan out here per se, as in the poll for what players want to see next, class stories is cck of the walk.

 

Players who only focus on PvP or end game Ops may be a vast minority, further still if you push to those who participate in ranked/NiM equivalents in this and other games, but players who engage in them from time to time and take the opportunity to experience the content as is becomes available I believe encompasses a much, much larger percentage of the player base here.

 

Again, if some valid statistics here have been missed in my perusing then point me to them, but your recent threads, LA, have been based on less than valid numbers from what I've seen.

[Vincire]

As someone stated previously, the contention that only a minority of players have ever touched end game or PvP content seems baseless and there have yet to be clear statistics presented here that I've seen. If I've missed them I'd be happy to retract that if I'm wrong, but it seems that in general most casuals still engaged in both on a somewhat regular basis. The assertion that Op/PvP-centric players are the most involved on the forums and care not about other things doesn't really pan out here per se, as in the poll for what players want to see next, class stories is cck of the walk.

 

Players who only focus on PvP or end game Ops may be a vast minority, further still if you push to those who participate in ranked/NiM equivalents in this and other games, but players who engage in them from time to time and take the opportunity to experience the content as is becomes available I believe encompasses a much, much larger percentage of the player base here.

 

Again, if some valid statistics here have been missed in my perusing then point me to them, but your recent threads, LA, have been based on less than valid numbers from what I've seen.

 

In the case of LOTRO, their conclusion was based on their own numbers so they certainly weren't "baseless" or else they wouldn't have made the decision in the first place. From a business perspective, the only relevant statistic is ROI; do enough players regularly participate in the content to justify continuing to invest in it? How they come to that conclusion is up to their Business Analysts to discern.

[Clarian]

I would love to see something like the following:

 

* A new "Solo Raid Mode" which is basically a retooling of the instance for solo/duo play. This satisfies the tiers of difficulty and therefore the need for gear progression.

* Loot progression is based around Presence Gear for your character AND Companion Gear.

 

There are several benefits to this. The player will be able to see and participate in content the devs have already produced, scaling down the content should be easier than creating something entirely new, and provides a source of content for players who don't like to raid or do tons of group content.

That would be awesome.

[Uruare]

Ah, gotchya. You had a bad experience or four and so all raiders and guilds are bad.

 

Noted and noted.

 

Poo poo, yes?

 

Maybe if I'd had more than two positive experiences in roughly ten years' time, my perspective would be more effervescent.

 

Also, are words hard for you? You seem to have presumed that is said somewhere that raiders and Guilds are bad.

 

I do hate picking on the disabled, and one would have to either be mentally challenged or merely not have read much I've had to say to arrive at your snotty, dismissive, puerile and vacuous conclusion.

 

I'll help you out, since you obviously need it - raiders am ok.

 

Guildz am ok.

 

Raid gamez probably need to do it different cuz the old way sucks and, at least in my experience, either easily attracts or broadly manufactures, and absolutely enables, lousy people to play anything with. The old way gates the top game content behind whatever social contrivances any guilds care to throw out there, no matter how absurd, with almost no restriction or oversight or even requirement for qualification what. ..so...ever.

 

This would have the dramatic effect of driving more and more people away from participating in things like that, if my experiences aren't unusual. If my experiences are typical? There is no god that could save this doomed ship to nowhere.

 

-I- certainly won't put up with it anymore. I'm tired of wasting weeks of my life on people that weren't worth it. Yes, there are fine guilds and many raiders that aren't pants on head retarded.

 

They're, insofar as I can tell, outnumbered drastically by those that are pants on head retarded.

 

but I'm probably wrong, right? Every raid game in the mmo scene fleeing from pouring all their endgame eggs in the basket of such content are isolated incidents.

 

Probably weather balloons.

Edited July 16, 2014 by Uruare

[RandomXChance]

Oh, I don't think RandomXChance would disagree. I think he has a solid point he is just not so elegantly making it.

 

But, of course, everyone can use better gear. This is a gear-progression-based MMO, after all. And, honestly, the difference between 180-comm gear and 180-token gear isn't that much. A few points more in Endurance and a few less in your role's damage/healing/mitigation stat isn't going to cripple any non-raider (or raider, for that matter, unless your block to clearing content is that close that those few points do count [excluding, obviously, the potential boon from a set bonus]). All-in-all, except for those who will not group at all, I think TOR does a pretty good job of making nearly-best gear available to almost all.

 

EDIT: Yes, yes, some of the comm pieces have stoopid stats. But each one has, typically a glove, that is median-priced and has a useful enhancement to replace the Alacrity one with. Grind is a grind!

 

Exactly.

 

As to the gear, the tokens have some pretty awful pieces as well, just not as many. I also feel that the comm gear being endurance heavy is, in a way, better optimized for solo players. As a solo player with your companions you are filling 2/3 of the trinity roles. The extra HP keeps you alive alive longer to accomplish those 2 roles.

[thewitchdoctor]

*Rubble, rabble*

 

Like I said, you come off as you have a chip on your shoulder.

 

I don't know you from Adam or Eve, but, if this is any indication of what you are like outside these forums: I am not surprised you have had difficulties interacting socially in an MMO.

 

But, I think we can agree that *our* conversation has reached its end.