Yet another game reports that Raiders and PVP players are a vast minority.....

[LordArtemis]

Now, note....though 14 games and counting now have reported the same thing at different times over the last 10 years, that does not mean this game is typical...it is still possible that this game breaks the mold, so to speak, and has a majority PVP and/or Raid playerbase.

 

There are a few things that stand out that might point to this possibility....first, this game does not have a typical cash flow setup with respect to F2P/Sub players and who pays the most, and also the fact that this game now has casual friendly raids and has had bolster for PVP for a while now.

 

But as time passes, more studies are released and more games go public with playerbase information, IMO it becomes less and less likely.

 

A few points that Turbine reported with respect to LotRO....

1) Raiders make up a very small portion of the playerbase.

2) PvMP (their version of PVP) is a slightly larger group of players, but combined they still represent less than 10 percent of the base.

3) The vase majority of forum posters are Raiders and/or PvMP players.

 

That is the 14th public source I have provided from the MMO market so far, as I promised to do long ago when I was challenged to prove that Raiders and PVP players are a minority of the playerbase, generally speaking, in MMOs (unless they are PVP focused). I would once again call to those that asked me to provide this info....here is your next bit.

 

Source

 

I will continue to post more information, as well as links to two new studies that are being released shortly for the 2013/2014 market in December. I expect the results will be typical. I will also try to find those prior links I posted if needed.

Edited July 5, 2014 by LordArtemis

[OddballEasyEight]

Feel free to make a consolidated thread with links to those 14 sourses as it would help stifen alot of the "PvP players are in the majority" type threads

[TX_Angel]

It seems perfectly reasonable to me that people who run ops and people who play PvP are the minority.

 

Are they the "vast minority"? I have no idea, but it would be interesting to see the numbers.

 

I suspect a majority (as in, over 50%) of the players in this game mostly play the solo game and group for a few FP and random open world +2 and +4 heroics. I rarely have trouble finding people to do the +2 & +4 missions in the daily areas such as BH, Sec X, Oricon, etc...

 

HM 55 doesn't seem to pop that often however, I can sometimes stay in it for an hour during prime time and it doesn't pop. If I add tactical FP to the GF queue however, it often pops in minutes...

 

I also have noticed in the past few months the quality of players in HM FP has been going down. I've been playing since 2 months post launch, it has become a repeating pattern recently of badly geared players in HM FP. Just tonight I was in HM CZ Labs, our tank had lvl 40-45 green and blue armor and implants install, and had 120 and 124 purples in a few things. Nothing was over 140 and only 2 or 3 parts of his armor were even at 140.

 

When we pointed out that he wasn't geared for it, he got all upset. I tried to explain what armor ratings were but he rage quit without further comment. We would have wiped and wiped trying to do that with him, something had to be said, but he didn't want to hear it.

 

This game does seem to have drawn more and more casual players... the recent introduction of bolster to SM ops via GF is evidence of this. I have done exactly one of those so far, with similar results (multiple wipes) and several of the players said, "but why does my gear matter, we have bolster!". Yea, it does matter, if your gear is so bad that bolster doesn't even get you over 25k health and you can't tank, yes, it matters because it means you don't understand the game and how it all works, so you shouldn't be doing content that requires skill.

[demotivator]

I also have noticed in the past few months the quality of players in HM FP has been going down. I've been playing since 2 months post launch, it has become a repeating pattern recently of badly geared players in HM FP. Just tonight I was in HM CZ Labs, our tank had lvl 40-45 green and blue armor and implants install, and had 120 and 124 purples in a few things. Nothing was over 140 and only 2 or 3 parts of his armor were even at 140.

 

When we pointed out that he wasn't geared for it, he got all upset. I tried to explain what armor ratings were but he rage quit without further comment. We would have wiped and wiped trying to do that with him, something had to be said, but he didn't want to hear it.

 

I have noticed the same trend. And honestly I also blame the double xp periods for this. People became used to jump into HM fp the minute they hit 55 to get gear, hoping to be carried.

 

I also have seen these tanks with 20-25k hp who get one or two shots and don't understand what is going on. Or this DPS who was still in lvl 45 greens in Czerka Corporate Labs and got mad when I carefully told him he was the reason why the Eradicator droid enraged at 25% (on top of not killing the adds and staying away from my heals).

 

It seems pretty obvious to me that there is now a very larger part of casual players in this game. PUGing never has been such a nightmare.

[ThorgrimLutgen]

PVP seems to be in a worse state than usual this week, clearly down to the double comms event. Queues almost instant most of the time, but full of people who normally would not be there.

 

Now, as annoying as it might be, I am biting my lip and holding my tongue and actually trying to encourage these PVErs (for want of a better word) in the hope they might over time expand the PVP pool a little away from this event.

 

However, many of these people are totally "know it alls" about PVP, they don't want advice, don't listen, don't contribute, just run around aimlessly, like we all did back when it launched of course.

 

I can fully understand the issues with Flashpoints etc. I never PVE other than class story, but have lately ran the Kuat thing just to get the speeder. I am fully aware, that although I am an accomplished PVP healer and PVP tank on multiple toons, I am merely scratching the surface of the PVE world, whilst these tactical things are a piece of cake, throw into some hardmode type thing using I am certain I would be cause of group wipes.

 

Why everyone assumes they are an expert baffles me.

 

The Lotro thing surprises me regarding the PVP. I played Lotro from launch until SWTORs launch and the Etten Moors were nothing more than a side game. To see that a large % of players play it than endgame raiding surprises me (in Lotro I used to PVE raid).

Edited July 4, 2014 by ThorgrimLutgen

[LanceCorporalDan]

I think this game caters to a more casual player base. And there is nothing wrong with that, it appeals to more people in my opinion.

 

It would be interesting to look at the numbers. Of course you would have to determine what defines a raider or PvPer.

 

Is a raider someone who does story mode ops? Is a PvPer anyone who jumps into warzones? I think most can agree that both of those describe a casual player. Story mode ops and reg warzones were designed for the more casual players in my opinion. While HM/NiM ops and ranked classify more of the hardcore raider or pvp group. Once again, just my opinion.

[Vhaegrant]

I don't think this break down of player base is any surprise. Nor is it a surprise that players with a vested interest in a game (Hardcore/Progression) are more likely to contribute on a forum. And, that forums are usually a place to voice dissent over developer decisions or the state of the game in general.

 

Personally I think the general flow of population and gear gated content is partly to blame for this division of player base.

In the early stages of any new content there is a flood of players so groups are easy to get into and content is cleared. These early adopters get through that content, get the good gear and then get bored and come to the forums to bemoan the fact that those who have yet to complete content are undergeared.

 

I've always seen the harder content there for guild activity not for PUGs in general. But even guild activity is a struggle when members only turn up on progression raid nights because everything else is beneath them.

 

Once you have this separation of population you find there is less incentive to struggle through the Hard content as a new comer. PUGs become a very hit and miss affair, my own personal experience tends to show undergeared tanks and healers and overgeared DPS, after a few wipes the repair bill is starting to overshadow any gear gains... if the content can be completed at all.

 

A similar state of affairs in PvP, even with bolster I've seen large differences in players stats and the smaller arena matches do not favour new comers to the experience. Then start to queue pre-made teams in against randoms and it start to becomes very demoralising to continue.

 

I don't think this situation is unique to SWTOR. Just as MMOs age and the hardcore players start to consolidate their hold of the end game it becomes less and less of a goal to try and compete with them.

 

Not to mention, the appeal of putting yourself through that struggle of gearing up, starts to fade once you realise that as soon as the level cap is raised you start on the treadmill once again.

 

So, as any MMO ages the player base will stratify into the casuals who pop in play for a few hours a week with mates or because they like the setting and the hardcore who only turn up for progression events/ ranked matches and spend the long queue times tabbed out to the forums to whine about Noobs in pugs and class balance

 

Hopefully though the developers can see the metrics and how players consume their game and set their priorities accordingly

[well]

PVP seems to be in a worse state than usual this week, clearly down to the double comms event. Queues almost instant most of the time, but full of people who normally would not be there.

 

Now, as annoying as it might be, I am biting my lip and holding my tongue and actually trying to encourage these PVErs (for want of a better word) in the hope they might over time expand the PVP pool a little away from this event.

 

However, many of these people are totally "know it alls" about PVP, they don't want advice, don't listen, don't contribute, just run around aimlessly, like we all did back when it launched of course.

 

I can fully understand the issues with Flashpoints etc. I never PVE other than class story, but have lately ran the Kuat thing just to get the speeder. I am fully aware, that although I am an accomplished PVP healer and PVP tank on multiple toons, I am merely scratching the surface of the PVE world, whilst these tactical things are a piece of cake, throw into some hardmode type thing using I am certain I would be cause of group wipes.

 

Why everyone assumes they are an expert baffles me.

 

The Lotro thing surprises me regarding the PVP. I played Lotro from launch until SWTORs launch and the Etten Moors were nothing more than a side game. To see that a large % of players play it than endgame raiding surprises me (in Lotro I used to PVE raid).

 

I don't see it. It is the same as it has always been. I been pvping since Ilum days. Still have some old centurion armor in my inventory. I still consider myself a PVE player even though I do a lot of pvp. It is no different than before as far as I can tell. Same as usual. People leave pylons unguarded..charge away from group in 4X4s (Leroy Jenkins time)and get into death matches in Huttball.

[jstankaroslo]

I also have noticed in the past few months the quality of players in HM FP has been going down. I've been playing since 2 months post launch, it has become a repeating pattern recently of badly geared players in HM FP. Just tonight I was in HM CZ Labs, our tank had lvl 40-45 green and blue armor and implants install, and had 120 and 124 purples in a few things. Nothing was over 140 and only 2 or 3 parts of his armor were even at 140.

 

When we pointed out that he wasn't geared for it, he got all upset. I tried to explain what armor ratings were but he rage quit without further comment. We would have wiped and wiped trying to do that with him, something had to be said, but he didn't want to hear it.

 

This game does seem to have drawn more and more casual players... the recent introduction of bolster to SM ops via GF is evidence of this. I have done exactly one of those so far, with similar results (multiple wipes) and several of the players said, "but why does my gear matter, we have bolster!". Yea, it does matter, if your gear is so bad that bolster doesn't even get you over 25k health and you can't tank, yes, it matters because it means you don't understand the game and how it all works, so you shouldn't be doing content that requires skill.

 

attitude like yours is exactly the reason why I'll never try an operation. Although my gear is around 140 or more on several characters, I don't want to feel rejected because I'll make mistakes. The player you mentioned made a mistake on gear, somebody else might aggro something by mistake etc.

Point is, when having a good time playing a game nobody wants to hear from group of people they're useless and should go away.

Don't you think it might be a reason for low number of raiders, long queues and such?

Endgame seems to be dominated with people dismissing others on bad gear, bad gameplay etc and it discourages the masses to try these aspects of the game.

[LanceCorporalDan]

attitude like yours is exactly the reason why I'll never try an operation. Although my gear is around 140 or more on several characters, I don't want to feel rejected because I'll make mistakes. The player you mentioned made a mistake on gear, somebody else might aggro something by mistake etc.

Point is, when having a good time playing a game nobody wants to hear from group of people they're useless and should go away.

Don't you think it might be a reason for low number of raiders, long queues and such?

Endgame seems to be dominated with people dismissing others on bad gear, bad gameplay etc and it discourages the masses to try these aspects of the game.

 

I disagree. With the gear you can obtain through your first run of Oricon you are now able to do story mode ops. As such, there is no longer a strog gear gate for those ops. This in turn allows you to acquire better gear through those story modes to be able to progress in HM ops.

 

In short, it is very easy to walk into SM ops (oricon gear) just as it is reg WZs (bolster) due in thanks to the casual nature of this game. If anything, it is MUCH easier to get into PvE or PvP as a solo player today than it was at launch.

Edited July 4, 2014 by LanceCorporalDan

[jorill]

attitude like yours is exactly the reason why I'll never try an operation. Although my gear is around 140 or more on several characters, I don't want to feel rejected because I'll make mistakes. The player you mentioned made a mistake on gear, somebody else might aggro something by mistake etc.

Point is, when having a good time playing a game nobody wants to hear from group of people they're useless and should go away.

Don't you think it might be a reason for low number of raiders, long queues and such?

Endgame seems to be dominated with people dismissing others on bad gear, bad gameplay etc and it discourages the masses to try these aspects of the game.

 

I dont really see an attitude here. You can probably get away with being undergeared as a dps and maybe a healer but not as a tank in the hm fp. He tried telling the guy but he didnt want to hear it and became combative. You need to follow a progression to get to 140 although its not hard and some people are skipping it.

 

Ive tried to play with someone geared like that in a hm fp as a tank and its just not doable and alot of it has to do with not having enough mitigation and as a healer i couldnt keep them up although they were a poor player and could keep aggro from the boss either. For better or worse this is gear based game and you need at least a certain level of gear.

 

Also if you want to do an OP and not get yelled at, thats probably best with a guild. Most guilds are pretty forgiving with mistakes especially when you are new. Ops are very very difficult in a pug unless you are overgeared or everyone knows the fights very well

[jorill]

I disagree. With the gear you can obtain through your first run of Oricon you are now able to do story mode ops. As such, there is no longer a strog gear gate for those ops. This in turn allows you to acquire better gear through those story modes to be able to progress in HM ops.

 

In short, it is very easy to walk into SM ops (oricon gear) just as it is reg WZs (bolster) due in thanks to the casual nature of this game. If anything, it is MUCH easier to get into PvE or PvP as a solo player today than it was at launch.

 

i agree. It was brutal at launch for those that remember in terms of gating. Flashpoints were even worse. From what i remember you really had to do dailies for coms. Its very easy now compared to back then

[Kulyok]

I disagree. With the gear you can obtain through your first run of Oricon you are now able to do story mode ops. As such, there is no longer a strog gear gate for those ops. This in turn allows you to acquire better gear through those story modes to be able to progress in HM ops.

 

I'm not sure gear is the problem. I am not an ops player, but I've been in a few sm DF/DP guild runs(my gear's augmented 168 gear with 180 hilts, if it matters) with mandatory TeamSpeak, people explaining tactics and so on, minimum gear standards, 30k hp for everyone, etc, and we still never even tried the Council. The ops leader usually said - no, people, we won't even attempt it, I can see we'll wipe. And he probably was right.

 

Which means - to me - that the ops, even so-called "story mode", are not meant for casual players like me. I have all classes and nearly all advanced classes on level 55, I've seen all the stories, done the sm FPs and heroics(though macrobinocular/seeker droid H4 missions nearly killed me), but I can't get to watch the last DP cutscene. Or most of other ops cutscenes, for that matter. Because you need to know tactics or be wiped, and knowing tactics doesn't mean reading it at dulfy's - just like with Mandalorian raiders, you need four or five runs of the op to remember everything well.

 

So... I really think we either need a casual mode for these operation, or a solo mode, or a better bolster, or something that would allow casual players to get off seasoned raiders' backs, get our cutscenes, and leave you experienced players alone to do your sm/hm/nim runs.

 

(Because I honestly can't stand to do another ten runs of DP (which includes an hour of standing around and waiting for people, and then some waiting inside the op), just for a tiiiny chance the op won't disband after weekly, or wipe multiple times, or I don't get kicked because I don't have ultimate gear - just to see one small cutscene).

[DomiSotto]

Honestly, even getting the character fitted out into Level 50 Makeb gear takes a lot of time and many-many milk runs for a solo player. Because there is a companion you need to equip as a solo. It takes (roughly) 300 comms to equip two chars through comms, meaning 100 Heroic 4+ missions. Of course, there are FPs, but repair bills if you are underlevelled are steep, and if you are underequipped you will die a lot. So, it feels hopeless.

 

And, after you do that, apparently you are horridly undergeared anyway. I just do not understand the point of making story-mode things that hard? Is there a point?

Edited July 4, 2014 by DomiSotto

[demotivator]

attitude like yours is exactly the reason why I'll never try an operation. Although my gear is around 140 or more on several characters, I don't want to feel rejected because I'll make mistakes. The player you mentioned made a mistake on gear, somebody else might aggro something by mistake etc.

Point is, when having a good time playing a game nobody wants to hear from group of people they're useless and should go away.

Don't you think it might be a reason for low number of raiders, long queues and such?

Endgame seems to be dominated with people dismissing others on bad gear, bad gameplay etc and it discourages the masses to try these aspects of the game.

 

And what about the attitude of those who are undergeared?

 

Entering a HM flashpoint while undergeared is wasting time for everyone (a few messages above I talked about this DPS who was so undergeared - lvl 45 greens - that the Eradicator Droid in CZ Corporate Labs enraged at 25% - 25%! - on top of being unable to follow my constant request which was helping to kill the adds, we kicked him, got a replacement and everything went flawlessly so there is no doubt he was the one giving us a hard time).

 

Hoping to be carried is rude behaviour. More than being kicked especially when you are given an explanation for the kick and advices to avoid this in the future. It's fine to ask your guild to help you get some gear but you can't expect strangers to carry you. If you queue for a HM fp you are expected to contribute and not get a free ride.

 

Also being undergeared is one thing. Being completely clueless about the fight mechanics is another thing. A couple weeks ago, I had this 25K hp tank queueing for Mando Raiders in lvl 50 blue DPS gear who had absolutely no idea what was going on, not taunting the boss while we were fighting the hounds so we constantly had him in the middle though we asked him to keep the boss away, refusing to LOS the boarding party to gather them and counter the knockback, attacking Varad in the lass fight and pushing him to the next phase. And these people get mad when you nicely explain them the mechanics.

 

That's the actual trend, rude people queueing for group content, undergeared and refusing to follow advices. These are the ones with a bad attitude.

Edited July 4, 2014 by demotivator

[jstankaroslo]

I disagree. With the gear you can obtain through your first run of Oricon you are now able to do story mode ops. As such, there is no longer a strog gear gate for those ops. This in turn allows you to acquire better gear through those story modes to be able to progress in HM ops.

 

In short, it is very easy to walk into SM ops (oricon gear) just as it is reg WZs (bolster) due in thanks to the casual nature of this game. If anything, it is MUCH easier to get into PvE or PvP as a solo player today than it was at launch.

 

I wasn't writing about gear exactly. You can buy gear on GTN (I did). The problem is the attitude. I fear, and I bet lots of casual players too, that I'll get lot of s**** from others for the slightest mistake, and then go on to become the forum example of "this guy that doesn't have a clue".

It was HM Czerka in the original post, and I think if the game allows green gear, people should not throw others out.

I don't play ops or HM flashpoints, so this is only my guess: when I see an under geared group member I know I'll have to play better to win the scenario. But it seems normal to make people quit rather then try harder.

Anyway, I don't do no war on ops players (I don't plan to join no ops group and spoil your fun), just pointing out why I think so few players do this kind of stuff, as OP stated.

[jstankaroslo]

 

Also if you want to do an OP and not get yelled at, thats probably best with a guild. Most guilds are pretty forgiving with mistakes especially when you are new. Ops are very very difficult in a pug unless you are overgeared or everyone knows the fights very well

 

well it should be the other way around: people who cant stand newbees should be playing inside their guilds. They wouldn't need to cope with incompetent players, and new player would feel safe from abuse

 

Seriously though -if you want more people playing ops and HMs be more tolerant, some positive examples could encourage them to try it

[DomiSotto]

Hoping to be carried is rude behaviour. More than being kicked. It's fine to ask your guild to help you get some gear but you can't expect strangers to carry you. If you queue for a HM fp you are expected to contribute and not get a free ride.

 

Exactly why there should be an alternative where a casual player can still get the story, but doesn't have to go through the whole humiliating experience and be forced to beg or give up. SM should be easily doable in the gear that comes from the planet after the quest is initiated. Why it should be something rare and virtually unobtainable for an SM?

Edited July 4, 2014 by DomiSotto

[LanceCorporalDan]

I'm not sure gear is the problem. I am not an ops player, but I've been in a few sm DF/DP guild runs(my gear's augmented 168 gear with 180 hilts, if it matters) with mandatory TeamSpeak, people explaining tactics and so on, minimum gear standards, 30k hp for everyone, etc, and we still never even tried the Council. The ops leader usually said - no, people, we won't even attempt it, I can see we'll wipe. And he probably was right.

 

Which means - to me - that the ops, even so-called "story mode", are not meant for casual players like me. I have all classes and nearly all advanced classes on level 55, I've seen all the stories, done the sm FPs and heroics(though macrobinocular/seeker droid H4 missions nearly killed me), but I can't get to watch the last DP cutscene. Or most of other ops cutscenes, for that matter. Because you need to know tactics or be wiped, and knowing tactics doesn't mean reading it at dulfy's - just like with Mandalorian raiders, you need four or five runs of the op to remember everything well.

 

So... I really think we either need a casual mode for these operation, or a solo mode, or a better bolster, or something that would allow casual players to get off seasoned raiders' backs, get our cutscenes, and leave you experienced players alone to do your sm/hm/nim runs.

 

(Because I honestly can't stand to do another ten runs of DP (which includes an hour of standing around and waiting for people, and then some waiting inside the op), just for a tiiiny chance the op won't disband after weekly, or wipe multiple times, or I don't get kicked because I don't have ultimate gear - just to see one small cutscene).

 

Hmm I tend to disagree still. The ops are part of the story and BW wants everyone to enjoy the story. As such operations ARE difficult, and DP is the more difficult in my opinion. Still, your raid leader should at least attempt it. My guild is RP-PvP in design. But we still do PvE on the side for a break from our usual gameplay. It is quite refreshing! Anyways we downed DF in one night and made it to the council right afterwards in the same night. We couldn't down the council and had to attempt it three more times another week.

 

My point is that yes DP is hard for casual players to complete. Wipes will happen, but they are designed to happen in these ops (and FPs). Not saying I wish your guild to wipe on your next run! But these are meant to take time instead of being one shot, even if the group is made of the casual player enjoying the story.

 

I do like the idea of a player being able to witness te story without need of a full ops team though

[demotivator]

Exactly why there should be an alternative where a casual player can still get the story, but doesn't have to go through the whole humiliating experience and be forced to beg or give up. SM should be easily doable in the gear that comes from the planet after the quest is initiated. Why it should be something rare and virtually unobtainable for an SM?

 

CZ flashpoints have a Group 2 version that can be easily soloed like any Group 2 heroics although a recent update gave the boss more hp making the fights not really more difficult but longer.

 

All the other flashpoints have a sm version that you can solo when you are a few levels higher (Esseles and Black Talon being Group 2 can even be soloed at the level you get them).

 

Tactical flashpoints are a bit different since you need to have decent gear to solo them.

Edited July 4, 2014 by demotivator

[TheNahash]

I think the news here is that LotrO has PVP.

[LanceCorporalDan]

I wasn't writing about gear exactly. You can buy gear on GTN (I did). The problem is the attitude. I fear, and I bet lots of casual players too, that I'll get lot of s**** from others for the slightest mistake, and then go on to become the forum example of "this guy that doesn't have a clue".

It was HM Czerka in the original post, and I think if the game allows green gear, people should not throw others out.

I don't play ops or HM flashpoints, so this is only my guess: when I see an under geared group member I know I'll have to play better to win the scenario. But it seems normal to make people quit rather then try harder.

Anyway, I don't do no war on ops players (I don't plan to join no ops group and spoil your fun), just pointing out why I think so few players do this kind of stuff, as OP stated.

 

Running into those players is simply part of the MMO experience, it is even worse in pvp lol. Most of these encounters have a recommended gear level to avoid under geared players from biting off more than they can chew. Truth is, if a player were to want to get in on ops, pugging it isn't what I'd advise. It's a real wildcard as you've pointed out. Hitting them up with like minded friends/players/guildies is the best bet for an enjoyable experience. Same can be applied to pvp.

 

I do agree that certain players' attitudes can hurt a newcomer instead of reaching out to help them. Yes this leaves a bad taste in the mouth. But again, I find it to be bad luck. Running them with friends is sure to remedy most of the issues that may discourage a newcomer.

[DomiSotto]

Esseles and Black Talon, sure. But not the content in Chapter 3 and after, because once your are level 55, and you managed to get L50 gear for comms, what then? You become automatically 'on the level' and undergeared. And that's it. The end of the road. Why it has to be so? What's the logic behind making the basic content that difficult, providing there is already Hard and Nightmare modes? Sorry, I just don't understand. I am sure there are plenty of players like me who do not have any need for proving themselves through challenge in a computer game... just want to get through the story and play a little of new content with a fav character. Edited July 4, 2014 by DomiSotto

[jorill]

well it should be the other way around: people who cant stand newbees should be playing inside their guilds. They wouldn't need to cope with incompetent players, and new player would feel safe from abuse

 

Seriously though -if you want more people playing ops and HMs be more tolerant, some positive examples could encourage them to try it

 

I dont ever do pug ops anymore, its almost a waste of time to be honest. Also i dont yell at anyone but the problem is you need coordination or everyone needs to know the fights and some fights you really need voice communication.

 

Also guilds are lot more lenient because they are familiar with you and the want you to stick around so yelling at you wont accomplish anything. Also if you act poorly in a guild run and continue that behavior they will most likely boot you.

 

If you want to do ops and dont want to join a guild that can help walk you through then i dont know what to tell you.

At least for hm fp if you tell them up front you dont know the fight they will explaing the boss mechanics. As a tank though you probably need to go through it a few times to get the hang of it

Edited July 4, 2014 by jorill

[thewitchdoctor]

Esseles and Black Talon, sure. But not the content in Chapter 3 and after, because once your are level 55, and you managed to get L50 gear for comms, what then? You become automatically 'on the level' and undergeared. And that's it. The end of the road. Why it has to be so? What's the logic behind making the basic content that difficult, providing there is already Hard and Nightmare modes? Sorry, I just don't understand. I am sure there are plenty of players like me who do not have any need for proving themselves through challenge in a computer game... just want to get through the story and play a little of new content with a fav character.

 

If you are level 55 and are at the 'end of the road,' then you have done the story line at Oricon. And if so, you have nearly a full set of level 53, item level 66, armours. That is more than sufficient to get you doing the dailies to get your basic and elite comms that will flesh out the last bits (relics with basic comms, for example). Or you can buy it off the GTN. That gear is more than sufficient for HMFPs at 55. If you know what your class is meant to do and are generally cognizant of general procedure: if you are tank - don't tunnel vision; if you are DPS - kill smallest to largest and protect your healer; if you are the healer - hit all the buttons.

 

Seriously, just leveling 1-50 should have gotten you enough planetary comms to buy a full set of Makeb armours, mods, and enhancements for when you dinged 50. The matrix cube relic will suffice til 55 for one slot there. There are awesome crafted level 53 Artifact earpieces and implants to buy off the GTN. If you truly have 'hit the end of the road,' then you have been provided the basic gear needed to start the next treadmill.

 

And finally, just because you read a bad story on the forums should not put you off from grouping. I PUG all the time just because my play times vary so much from my guild. I really only get to group with them on weekends for our ops. And I have rarely seen someone vote-kicked. And when I have, it was for seriously dumb stuff. As in the player was seriously acting dumb. I have rarely seen smart-*** comments about someone's gear. And if you do get a bad group with an idiot: so what? Does what some nitwit say in an MMO have that much power over you? Water to a duck's back. Put the idiot on your ignore list and queue again.

 

The barrier to entry for HMFPs and SM Ops is seriously low in SWTOR right now. Get on it now because it may be a bit higher when we get to 3.0 (though it will naturally fall again).