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Yet another game reports that Raiders and PVP players are a vast minority.....


LordArtemis

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We must not be playing the same game... this game hands out planet comms like candy... just do all the missions on each planet and you'll be hitting that 100 comms cap all the time...

 

I did every mission that I can on every planet. By obvious reasons, I can't do Heroics solo (an odd 2+ sometimes), so every mission save for heroics. When I hit L49, I had accumulated around 100 comms, but I did not know about Makeb vendor having the purple comms. I outfitted the companion in blues, because I normally outfit every 4 levels. It is a newb mistake. Since then, I spent every comm to equip purples on the main and update weapons on the companion.

 

As for the rest of your gear, 156 purple implants and ears are running about 50K each on BC right now, spend 150K and get those for your toon, makes a big difference. Make sure you have a 156 barrel or hilt in your weapons, huge difference over even the 140 purple, and don't cost that much.

 

Except that most of my earnings on the character goes into training this character and I have at most 350 thou on the character. Which has to last me to run the crafting mission to craft for all other alts, pay death tolls, & run expensive Investigation missions to keep the Armstech crafter progressing and fitting the lower alts with the purple barrels. (And maybe selling an odd one if I am lucky). I understand that a lot of people find it easy to procure credits in this game, but I do not. Harbinger has a volatile GTN with a fairly progressed population, so very few items sell well, and at present even the raw mats markets are toast. To sell, you need to be able to craft purple because blues are available for comms; to craft purple, you need to RE blues + mats. All of which take upfront credit investments.

 

What? L50-55 are well supported in crafting, you can make 156 purples for everything in this game, other than relics of course. Basic Comms get you 162 gear at lvl 55, so I'm not sure why you think it isn't supported.

 

I am a L53 character on Corellia. Which means the only materials I find is Grade 6, and I need Grade 9 to craft L50. Which means really, really, really expensive missions. My best UWT character only got into L5 metals & have only 2 companions, and is parked for the moment, so her credits come from part-sales of the missions and drops from other alts. So, it is a slow going. Most of my alts are low level still.

 

Look, I am trying, but, again, I find it a hard going on the L50 levels, very different from the rest of the game in terms of equipping.

 

And, I have no ambition whatsoever to do anything but SM. Maybe not even that. I will review this idea once I have done Corellia, Illum, Makeb and Oricon. If I do indeed manage to accumulate ~ L53 gear, I would consider SM.

Edited by DomiSotto
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@ Domisotto - don't take this the wrong way - but you're doing something wrong. Maybe it's spending money on crafting missions, maybe spending money on mats from the AH, but at 53 you can equip 53 crafted and the purple 53 Earpieces / Implants are (at least on my server) 40k /30 (respectively) cheap. Also at 53 you should be done with Corellia.

 

At 53 you can join any SM / HM EV group and have no problems.

 

(Written by a guildy before the recent commendation change):

 

Don't wait until 55 to gear for 55. Need to think about three milestones: Level 50, 53 and 55. With most classes (DPS especially), upgrading your barrel / hilt should be priority # 1.

 

1) Here are some goals to set:

 

a) PvP comms: 1400 regular commendations, 2600 ranked. (Don't spend until 55)

 

b) Planetary comms: As close to 100 as possible for when you hit level 50

 

c) Basic Comms: 175 minimum (Do not spend until 55)

 

d) Classic Comms: If you can accumulate some - great - but not a priority (unless you like the look). Be advised there is a set bonus difference between classic gear and Arkanian.

 

2) You hit 50, now what?

 

a) Remember in 1)b) we talked about Planetary comms? Now's the time to go spend them at the Makeb planetary vendor (located on fleet)

 

b) (level 50) Flash points. You want to start doing these in order to accumulate 175 Basic comms

 

c) Any and all raids that you can join. EV (SM/HM), KP (SM/HM) Most groups will let you need to your heart's content.

 

3) You hit 53, now what?

 

a) Now you can upgrade to (66) crafted to include barrel / hilt. This will be a significant power and HP boost from your old gear. Get as much (66) as you can.

 

b) Continue to raid as per 2) c).

 

3) Check GTN for (66) Blue gear (esp. Earpiece and Implants)

 

4) You just hit 55, now what?

 

a) Take the PvP comms to the PvP vendor. You are looking (first) for Conqueror relics (700 regular comms each), then upgrade at the vendor right next door for 1 Conqueror Relic and 1300 ranked comms. (Currently these are BIS in game (12/31/2013)

 

b) Take your basic comms and purchase five (5) Isotope-5 "tubes". (They look like a test tube filled with Mt Dew). Get in on a SM TFB or SM S & V. Completing either for the first time rewards you with Mass Manipulation Generator. You will need five Isotope-5s', one MMG and some minor items for a (72) Hilt / Barrel.

 

At this point you should be in all (66) crafted (minimum) with the exception of your MH (72) and relics (78 equiv). If you have the credits, check the GTN for Ear and Implants (54-55). Often they are sold very cheap (20k)

 

Continue to raid. While it is up to you, I recommend your first purchase with Ultimates (78) is your OH. (esp Marauder and BH).

 

Good luck!

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Look, I am trying, but, again, I find it a hard going on the L50 levels ...

 

Don't stress too much. It is your first run to 55. A lot of us forget how different it is when you don't have a veritable platoon of other characters to assist your alt on stepping from being a level 54 nobody to a SM/HM op-ready 55 on the ding.

 

Your first toon is poor, underequipped, dies a lot and takes a lot of work. It is also probably going to be the one you appreciate the most.

 

But when (s)he gets her first set of gear and finishes his/her first SM op ... you'll appreciate it all the more.

 

Just enjoy the game. And my advice from earlier still stands: if some numbnuts gives you grief in a FP while you are learning the endgame or gearing: ignore and move on. The internet is full of big boys with little blasters. Don't let them turn you off the game.

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I do not do PvP (have neither time nor talent), or Flashpoints (I did a couple of them with other people and I just did KYD last Friday with new Guild). KYD netted 5 comms, and 15,000 credits repair bill - I can't afford that.

 

I also did not know about Makeb purple vendor, so that ship has sailed as I traded in my comms for 49 blues for my companion.

 

I am not done with Corellia, just started the third map. I figure ~ 2 weeks to finish Corellia. :)

 

EDIT:

Just enjoy the game. And my advice from earlier still stands: if some numbnuts gives you grief in a FP while you are learning the endgame or gearing: ignore and move on. The internet is full of big boys with little blasters. Don't let them turn you off the game.

 

Thank you :) I totally love the game, just not ready for the whole end-game concept. :)

Edited by DomiSotto
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I also did not know about Makeb purple vendor, so that ship has sailed as I traded in my comms for 49 blues for my companion.

You're 53, don't sweat the Makeb purples, but if you insist, you can solo lower level heroics (eg. Tattooine) for planetary comms. If you have a cybertech, the crafted blue 28's are better than the purple 25's (Makeb). If credits are a problem, run the Ilum dailies.

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And, finally, after reading and thinking and stuff, I think that in my situation, the best I can do is to actually level to 55 through the normal difficulty stuff, in L50 gear (since I am overlevellling), and then start grinding credits to buy L55 gear (since that's what gonna stay with me until the cap gets moved again) slowly, while working on the higher and higher non-grouped content, hopefully getting the free drops. It is not as ace as the way you have posted, but it keeps me as much in my comfort zone as possible, and therefore is doable.

 

EDIT:

You're 53, don't sweat the Makeb purples, but if you insist, you can solo lower level heroics (eg. Tattooine) for planetary comms. If you have a cybertech, the crafted blue 28's are better than the purple 25's (Makeb). If credits are a problem, run the Ilum dailies.

 

Yes, I am doing that, going for a sojourn on a lower level planet in order after every high level area. Yes, I am a Cybertech, but I do not have enough mats to get into the levels of crafting above L50, most particular the purple high level metals. Heck, I need bunch of credits just to get to blue UWT L6.... I was fumbling with the characters crafting when I started, so my initial cybertech ended up parked, and switched to gathering/missions character (as I hate her guts) and this particular character jumped to the forefront, but ended up with Investigation as her mission skill (she was an Armstech initially). It was all a part of the learning experience.

Edited by DomiSotto
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Now, note....though 14 games and counting now have reported the same thing at different times over the last 10 years, that does not mean this game is typical...it is still possible that this game breaks the mold, so to speak, and has a majority PVP and/or Raid playerbase.

.

 

A post listing all of your sources, or maybe a web site with all of the links, would be very interesting to many readers of these forums I believe.

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And, finally, after reading and thinking and stuff, I think that in my situation, the best I can do is to actually level to 55 through the normal difficulty stuff, in L50 gear (since I am overlevellling), and then start grinding credits to buy L55 gear (since that's what gonna stay with me until the cap gets moved again) slowly, while working on the higher and higher non-grouped content, hopefully getting the free drops. It is not as ace as the way you have posted, but it keeps me as much in my comfort zone as possible, and therefore is doable.

 

EDIT:

 

 

Yes, I am doing that, going for a sojourn on a lower level planet in order after every high level area. Yes, I am a Cybertech, but I do not have enough mats to get into the levels of crafting above L50, most particular the purple high level metals. Heck, I need bunch of credits just to get to blue UWT L6.... I was fumbling with the characters crafting when I started, so my initial cybertech ended up parked, and switched to gathering/missions character (as I hate her guts) and this particular character jumped to the forefront, but ended up with Investigation as her mission skill (she was an Armstech initially). It was all a part of the learning experience.

 

In my opinion, to put it bluntly, your poor because you're leveling multiple alts, plus building crafters, without a single lvl 55 toon to fund it all. You'll be rolling in credits once you have the dailies on farm, until then you'll just be fighting it.

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Heh, I remember when SWG got its speeders working

The planets suddenly felt so much smaller in size and that WOW effect was robbed from game

 

Original design for SWG has players placing shuttle pads inside player built towns/cities and the concept was a player would shuttle to which ever player city and then travel out from there. Making the placements of different cities strategically important.

 

But once Speeders went into game, everyone stopped using shuttles on planets because you could ride your speeder from one end to other in 10-15 minutes (rather then waiting upwards of 15 minutes for shuttles). Completely removed a big aspect of SWG design.

 

I often wonder how much more epic SWG would have felt if Speeders were never added

 

It definitely would have pushed players to not build remote houses way out in lala land because of danger reaching house on foot

 

I often think many people dont seriously think and rationalize what they are demanding.

 

People demand flying mounts for SW:TOR but they never stop to think for a second that this game was never designed for flying mounts and to put those in would instantly eliminate a ton of content you cant just blindly drive through.

 

Someone in this thread was saying hardcore players have something to add to development but having been playing these games since day 1 of genre, I can say very truthfully that being hardcore doesnt mean you will suggest whats best for game. In fact many hardcore players make suggestions that only help them. DAoC RVR balance was basically obliterated because Mythic listed to the wrong group of hardcore RVRers who didn't give a bleep about things like balance and fairness. They wanted god powers and that's what they suggested over and over and over till Mythic gave it a try and basically broke their own RVR content.

 

Personally I think developers should be looking for feed back from experienced players with long term knowledge but also players who can look outside their own preferences and desires and look at the whole game and how everything fits.

 

People today don't do that it seems.

As you said, they want instant gratification

I really wonder why some players even bother playing MMORPGs at all cause they want everything just handed to them with no effort what so ever.

 

But I guess that complaint can be applied to much more then just MMORPGs now a days.

 

Exactly True! I almost wish I could start a consulting business consisting of people that have been gaming since pin ball and arcades up till now, as a long time consumer of gaming we are the backbone of the gaming industry that IMO are an untapped resource, people like you and myself never really get the chance to voice ourselves to the industry because we are for the most part not a vocal bunch, or very jaded Lol! However for the few who can see the overall picture I bet we could give a ton of insight towards improvements that are unbiased, and fair to the community as a whole and be a very huge asset to giving the games we love that boost they are missing, but that's just my own opinion Lol! :cool:

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@ Domisotto - don't take this the wrong way - but you're doing something wrong. Maybe it's spending money on crafting missions, maybe spending money on mats from the AH, but at 53 you can equip 53 crafted and the purple 53 Earpieces / Implants are (at least on my server) 40k /30 (respectively) cheap. Also at 53 you should be done with Corellia.

 

At 53 you can join any SM / HM EV group and have no problems.

 

(Written by a guildy before the recent commendation change):

 

Don't wait until 55 to gear for 55. Need to think about three milestones: Level 50, 53 and 55. With most classes (DPS especially), upgrading your barrel / hilt should be priority # 1.

 

1) Here are some goals to set:

 

a) PvP comms: 1400 regular commendations, 2600 ranked. (Don't spend until 55)

 

b) Planetary comms: As close to 100 as possible for when you hit level 50

 

c) Basic Comms: 175 minimum (Do not spend until 55)

 

d) Classic Comms: If you can accumulate some - great - but not a priority (unless you like the look). Be advised there is a set bonus difference between classic gear and Arkanian.

 

2) You hit 50, now what?

 

a) Remember in 1)b) we talked about Planetary comms? Now's the time to go spend them at the Makeb planetary vendor (located on fleet)

 

b) (level 50) Flash points. You want to start doing these in order to accumulate 175 Basic comms

 

c) Any and all raids that you can join. EV (SM/HM), KP (SM/HM) Most groups will let you need to your heart's content.

 

3) You hit 53, now what?

 

a) Now you can upgrade to (66) crafted to include barrel / hilt. This will be a significant power and HP boost from your old gear. Get as much (66) as you can.

 

b) Continue to raid as per 2) c).

 

3) Check GTN for (66) Blue gear (esp. Earpiece and Implants)

 

4) You just hit 55, now what?

 

a) Take the PvP comms to the PvP vendor. You are looking (first) for Conqueror relics (700 regular comms each), then upgrade at the vendor right next door for 1 Conqueror Relic and 1300 ranked comms. (Currently these are BIS in game (12/31/2013)

 

b) Take your basic comms and purchase five (5) Isotope-5 "tubes". (They look like a test tube filled with Mt Dew). Get in on a SM TFB or SM S & V. Completing either for the first time rewards you with Mass Manipulation Generator. You will need five Isotope-5s', one MMG and some minor items for a (72) Hilt / Barrel.

 

At this point you should be in all (66) crafted (minimum) with the exception of your MH (72) and relics (78 equiv). If you have the credits, check the GTN for Ear and Implants (54-55). Often they are sold very cheap (20k)

 

Continue to raid. While it is up to you, I recommend your first purchase with Ultimates (78) is your OH. (esp Marauder and BH).

 

Good luck!

 

Excellent post.

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Exactly True! I almost wish I could start a consulting business consisting of people that have been gaming since pin ball and arcades up till now, as a long time consumer of gaming we are the backbone of the gaming industry that IMO are an untapped resource, people like you and myself never really get the chance to voice ourselves to the industry because we are for the most part not a vocal bunch, or very jaded Lol! However for the few who can see the overall picture I bet we could give a ton of insight towards improvements that are unbiased, and fair to the community as a whole and be a very huge asset to giving the games we love that boost they are missing, but that's just my own opinion Lol! :cool:

 

Its true, back in the UO/EQ days I was on a list of alpha testers to be called on for that knowledge in beta and alpha but even that's changed now with Developers basically making betas nothing more then free trial promotions by inviting randomly rather then getting knowledgeable testers in early to truly test and suggest.

 

Remember back in SW:TOR closed beta I made a list of like 20 items of things that needed to change or be put in.

 

All went ignored until original dev team was tossed out

included things like

-Housing (we getting)

-Achievements (added in last year)

-Pazaak and swoop racing (I expect soon but still in big demand)

-RVR style PVP (told them Warzones would not be respected and utilized long term and they are dieing fast and have been since release honestly. They keep tweaking the warzones but truth is its the warzone design that is the problem)

- Rift style public grouping events (still havent done and still would add huge value to game if players (of both sides) could chase republic or empire landing assault parties (IE: RIFTS made into Star Wars content)

- Guild levels and special guild content like EQ2 (with DAoC process for RVR guild content)

and more

 

You see some of it finally coming into play in SW:TOR but its way late now so very possibly could be to late because they filled up their tests with modern players screaming for things like faster speeders, flaying speeders, instant level 50 (remember this was in beta of SW:TOR), and other mindless demands that had nothing to do with making game better and more appealing.

 

Hell many of SW:TOR beta testers (closed and open) flat out bragged how they wouldn't report bugs because they were not being paid to do so.

 

Eventually this genre needs to figure out its history is where its value lays.

Pay attention to the history

take the good, learn from the bad

STOP repeating others mistakes

 

When a developer is able to do that,

Then and only then will they get their 10-15-20 million subscription base

 

But they need to surround themselves with people and players who understand the past and can separate personal wants and desires and focus on whats best for game period.

 

And yeah, I cant code a lick (Ive actually gone to Tech School for it, don't have the aptitude for it) so ill never get a developer job because companies stopped hiring idea people long time ago.

 

And it shows.

 

Before WOW, the one thing you could say about this genre is it was full of new and bright ideas and concepts.

Every game was different in some way (beyond just setting and lore)

But since WOW hit market, MMORPGs have basically been cookie cutter MMORPGs

Same failed concept (WOW was only one to make it work) over and over and over again

 

OK now im depressed and have to go kill stuff :p hehehe

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Maybe. I really did want to get her to L55 during this 2xXP, but it did not quite happen :) For now, I am just happy to be able to park Treek & play the story with Riggs again. I'll swap low level dailies with playing another character on my solo mornings. I still don't want to do any FPs - just too many things against that.

 

Anyway, I again and again feel really uncomfortable for keeping posting offtop it in this thread, because I feel it will be polite to respond when my posts are quoted. I am sorry for derailing!

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Its true, back in the UO/EQ days I was on a list of alpha testers to be called on for that knowledge in beta and alpha but even that's changed now with Developers basically making betas nothing more then free trial promotions by inviting randomly rather then getting knowledgeable testers in early to truly test and suggest.

 

Remember back in SW:TOR closed beta I made a list of like 20 items of things that needed to change or be put in.

 

All went ignored until original dev team was tossed out

included things like

-Housing (we getting)

-Achievements (added in last year)

-Pazaak and swoop racing (I expect soon but still in big demand)

-RVR style PVP (told them Warzones would not be respected and utilized long term and they are dieing fast and have been since release honestly. They keep tweaking the warzones but truth is its the warzone design that is the problem)

- Rift style public grouping events (still havent done and still would add huge value to game if players (of both sides) could chase republic or empire landing assault parties (IE: RIFTS made into Star Wars content)

- Guild levels and special guild content like EQ2 (with DAoC process for RVR guild content)

and more

 

You see some of it finally coming into play in SW:TOR but its way late now so very possibly could be to late because they filled up their tests with modern players screaming for things like faster speeders, flaying speeders, instant level 50 (remember this was in beta of SW:TOR), and other mindless demands that had nothing to do with making game better and more appealing.

 

Hell many of SW:TOR beta testers (closed and open) flat out bragged how they wouldn't report bugs because they were not being paid to do so.

 

Eventually this genre needs to figure out its history is where its value lays.

Pay attention to the history

take the good, learn from the bad

STOP repeating others mistakes

 

When a developer is able to do that,

Then and only then will they get their 10-15-20 million subscription base

 

But they need to surround themselves with people and players who understand the past and can separate personal wants and desires and focus on whats best for game period.

 

And yeah, I cant code a lick (Ive actually gone to Tech School for it, don't have the aptitude for it) so ill never get a developer job because companies stopped hiring idea people long time ago.

 

And it shows.

 

Before WOW, the one thing you could say about this genre is it was full of new and bright ideas and concepts.

Every game was different in some way (beyond just setting and lore)

But since WOW hit market, MMORPGs have basically been cookie cutter MMORPGs

Same failed concept (WOW was only one to make it work) over and over and over again

 

OK now im depressed and have to go kill stuff :p hehehe

 

Don't get too Depressed I think at some point In the future industry will be looking for long time consumers and say ok where in the hell did we go wrong! Lol!! :p

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Could be worse - you could've been in ESO Beta's I-III. Noted that the problems (you reported) in I were still around in III. Been ignored by devs, denigrated on FB for having the temerity if not the audacity to point out issues.

 

Yeah.

 

Could've been worse.

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Could be worse - you could've been in ESO Beta's I-III. Noted that the problems (you reported) in I were still around in III. Been ignored by devs, denigrated on FB for having the temerity if not the audacity to point out issues.

 

Yeah.

 

Could've been worse.

 

Lol funny it's two extremes the want to offer beta but only work on devs personal opinions, and then there is EQN where every spitting detail is so dragged out there is pretty much no point in even playing it..... :rolleyes:

Edited by CKNORTH
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Exactly True! I almost wish I could start a consulting business consisting of people that have been gaming since pin ball and arcades up till now, as a long time consumer of gaming we are the backbone of the gaming industry that IMO are an untapped resource, people like you and myself never really get the chance to voice ourselves to the industry because we are for the most part not a vocal bunch, or very jaded Lol! However for the few who can see the overall picture I bet we could give a ton of insight towards improvements that are unbiased, and fair to the community as a whole and be a very huge asset to giving the games we love that boost they are missing, but that's just my own opinion Lol! :cool:

Its true, back in the UO/EQ days I was on a list of alpha testers to be called on for that knowledge in beta and alpha but even that's changed now with Developers basically making betas nothing more then free trial promotions by inviting randomly rather then getting knowledgeable testers in early to truly test and suggest.

Eventually this genre needs to figure out its history is where its value lays.

Pay attention to the history

take the good, learn from the bad

STOP repeating others mistakes

 

When a developer is able to do that,

Then and only then will they get their 10-15-20 million subscription base

 

But they need to surround themselves with people and players who understand the past and can separate personal wants and desires and focus on whats best for game period.

 

Before WOW, the one thing you could say about this genre is it was full of new and bright ideas and concepts.

Every game was different in some way (beyond just setting and lore)

But since WOW hit market, MMORPGs have basically been cookie cutter MMORPGs

Same failed concept (WOW was only one to make it work) over and over and over again

 

OK now im depressed and have to go kill stuff :p hehehe

 

There are only a few truly original ideas in anything. Really, is it any surprise that the ideas and concepts introduced in the fledgling MMO genre were new and bright - think about it for a minute and you may realize why that is. Just about every entertainment industry can say the same.

 

To be honest, whenever a gamer says they can offer impartial and unbiased opinions on how to make the gaming industry better, and has never worked in the gaming industry or other entertainment related business, I take what they say with a grain of salt. I can't count the times a gamer said they have the greatest idea ever for a game, then proceed to regurgitate the same idea that 1000 other gamers spouted for the past 5 years. I am reminded of something an old publisher friend of mine once said: "You'll meet people that think they know what it takes to write a good book just because they've been reading for their whole lives. That just isn't the case."

 

It's always easier said then done when someone says "take the good, and learn from the bad." If it was that easy, not one business in the last 50 years would have gone out of business. There are already games that have far many more players than WoW - most of them in the Eastern Market and the types of MMOs that garner that type of playerbase would send you and other Western players running (and QQing) for the hills.

 

The genre has learned from the past. It has learned that success either means being niche with a lower playerbase (a la Eve), or be an accessible blockbuster and appeal to a larger playerbase (and thusly encompass a large amount of playstyles), a la the current theme of Western MMO releases, of which SWTOR is leading the pack in popularity and in the top 10 for F2P income.

Edited by TravelersWay
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A good read. I think this discussion has turned out to be rather healthy.

 

One thing I would say is that because there are so many types of gamers and things that can define them, I latched on to what I believe is the one constant when folks play....and that defines you.

 

If you are more concerned with reward than you are with gameplay and fluff, you are hardcore. If you are more concerned with gameplay and fluff than you are with reward, you are casual.

 

This definition seemed to make the most sense to me, and it is a clear line of definition that seems to remain a constant. The force that drives one to play a game can be the defining factor....some play for fun, others play for reward. Both are viable pursuits, but them most certainly separate the two types of players IMO.

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Thanks for the link, LA. While I don't think this surprises anyone except the cited minority, it is nice to have hard numbers. I don't see how anyone can look at numerical reality like that and scream that LotRO, at least, should cater intensively to those two subgroups.

 

It goes a long way in explaining why devs spend resources how they do.

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and then there is EQN where every spitting detail is so dragged out there is pretty much no point in even playing i

 

EQNext ? Or Landmark? Landmark is truly one-of-a-kind. It's not for me (I don't have an artistic bone in my body and I just don't "see" the way others in that Beta do), but I have two friends who are beyond enamored with Landmark. (Oh BTW did you notice they removed the "EQ" portion from the name a couple of months back?)

 

But compare the EXTENDED Landmark Beta with ESOs rush job.

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There are only a few truly original ideas in anything. Really, is it any surprise that the ideas and concepts introduced in the fledgling MMO genre were new and bright - think about it for a minute and you may realize why that is. Just about every entertainment industry can say the same.

 

To be honest, whenever a gamer says they can offer impartial and unbiased opinions on how to make the gaming industry better, and has never worked in the gaming industry or other entertainment related business, I take what they say with a grain of salt. I can't count the times a gamer said they have the greatest idea ever for a game, then proceed to regurgitate the same idea that 1000 other gamers spouted for the past 5 years. I am reminded of something an old publisher friend of mine once said: "You'll meet people that think they know what it takes to write a good book just because they've been reading for their whole lives. That just isn't the case."

 

It's always easier said then done when someone says "take the good, and learn from the bad." If it was that easy, not one business in the last 50 years would have gone out of business. There are already games that have far many more players than WoW - most of them in the Eastern Market and the types of MMOs that garner that type of playerbase would send you and other Western players running (and QQing) for the hills.

 

The genre has learned from the past. It has learned that success either means being niche with a lower playerbase (a la Eve), or be an accessible blockbuster and appeal to a larger playerbase (and thusly encompass a large amount of playstyles), a la the current theme of Western MMO releases, of which SWTOR is leading the pack in popularity and in the top 10 for F2P income.

 

Well their is a few things in which the older gamers such as myself do like and keep us here, 1) the trinity system here is clearly defined, the roles in my experience are in fact well balanced... 2) they spec system is also well done it's not cookie cutter and it is easy and well explained what you are spacing in, also the rotation of capped toons can be done with 1 hot bar except in emergency where more skills are needed such as heroic moment. The companions even though some may find them a little much are in fact very well done as well, I find that having them when questing along with the desire to unlock all class story lines in order to have max presence buff is a goal I want to attain very badly, it's kind of what keeps me striving to see All class story lines! So yes we may see things differently but most of us who have been gaming since episode IV hit theatres in 1978 understand how to adapt very well.. We don't express our ideas as vocally as some of the rest of the community but being a long time consumer since the beginning of the "Video" game lifespan we do have a ample amount of interesting "tips" that could be valuable, but that's just my point of view from my gaming experiences...

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EQNext ? Or Landmark? Landmark is truly one-of-a-kind. It's not for me (I don't have an artistic bone in my body and I just don't "see" the way others in that Beta do), but I have two friends who are beyond enamored with Landmark. (Oh BTW did you notice they removed the "EQ" portion from the name a couple of months back?)

 

But compare the EXTENDED Landmark Beta with ESOs rush job.

 

Actually now that you pointed out that they took EQ out of landmark is interesting! Yeah I really tried to get into landmark and it just isn't my type of game, it does have some things in it I always wanted though, for example the designing of items and equipment to Sell for real currency VIA their studio feature would be a very nice thing... I mean to make actual money from a game in designing armour weapons etc would be a boon here "if" it went through a very rigorous approval process in order to keep the Star Wars theme, now that I would love to sink my teeth into. As for EQN from what I did see of it I don't know it does not interest me I guess because I still have a lot to do here.. And I find it very hard to concentrate on more then one game at a time.. :)

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To be honest, whenever a gamer says they can offer impartial and unbiased opinions on how to make the gaming industry better, and has never worked in the gaming industry or other entertainment related business, I take what they say with a grain of salt.

 

Fair enough, but I would say that customer opinions about your product is not only the most important resource to build sales, it is the only resource to focus development.

 

And of course I would categorically state that the idea that "gamers" giving ideas that have been adopted has never worked in games and/or entertainment is a silly notion at best. In fact, most of the good ideas that have kept games afloat have come from players or devs that were players themselves, most of the bad ideas from upper management that were NOT gamers.

 

There are far too many examples to list. Suffice to say that it takes a bit of insight to know when the "minority" in a forum is speaking for the masses, and devs are not alien to this concept. Ideas are pruned from game forums quite often, and many successful additions to games (including this one) were born in some form from player ideas.

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If you are more concerned with reward than you are with gameplay and fluff, you are hardcore. If you are more concerned with gameplay and fluff than you are with reward, you are casual.

 

Suggestion: If you are more concerned with a measured, competitive in-game achievement than you are with gameplay, story progression and character development elements, you are a competitor style player. If you are more concerned with the later, you are casual a creative style player.

 

Just suggesting the tone that does not imply a superiority of one style over the other. 'Casual' may mean a low time investment, but that can't be further from the truth for a lot of players who play regularly, put in long hours, but rarely touch competitive aspect of the game.

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