Yet another game reports that Raiders and PVP players are a vast minority.....

[DomiSotto]

Hmm...why aren't you doing dailies and level 50 fps for classic comms? Or are you? those will bet you gear for makeb.

 

'Cause = grouping. Firstly, I play solo alts before work, from around 3:30-4 am to 4:45 am. Could run out of time, seeing I am a DPS between queuing wait and the FP itself that will not be in any way shortened by a bumbling newb. The H's on the planets are kind of not happening as I rarely see more than 20 people per planet lately. Secondly, I have a persistent problem with crashing game while trying to type something in a chat during the FPs, so until I ID the key bind that does it, I do not want to impose with a potential problem like that. Finally, I simply, how to put it? Don't have the guts? Yes, that's the expression.

[errant_knight]

It sounds like you need a good guild. You might want to consider that. What server are you on? I'll help you out if I can. If I can't, someone else probably can.

[Rafaman]

While I don't disagree with LA's initial point, that in general Raiders and PvP'ers are proportionately in the minority. I think that such assertions also are vastly impacted by the specific game referenced. If you were to poll Wildstar you would get a very different results. And I think the same is true here. Where as if you polled ArcheAge (alpha) an overwhelming majority would be anything but Raiders.

 

MMO's go after niche markets these days. Gone are the days of the swiss army knife MMO. There is too much involved in terms of dev time and money to make a game that caters to all equally.

 

Personally, I look forward to the day when MMOs drop all pretense and cater to just one group with very small vestiges of other types of game play. It may result in a smaller but much more loyal player base as the focus and development will allow for much improved PvE or PvP or Sandbox experience.

Edited July 4, 2014 by Rafaman

[TravelersWay]

While I don't disagree with LA's initial point, that in general Raiders and PvP'ers are proportionately in the minority. I think that such assertions also are vastly impacted by the specific game referenced. If you were to poll Wildstar you would get a very different results. And I think the same is true here. Where as if you polled ArcheAge (alpha) an overwhelming majority would not be anything but Raiders.

 

MMO's go after niche markets these days. Gone are the days of the swiss army knife MMO. There is too much involved in terms of dev time and money to make a game that caters to all equally.

 

Personally, I look forward to the day when MMOs drop all pretense and cater to just one group with very small vestiges of other types of game play. It may result in a smaller but much more loyal player base as the focus and development will allow for much improved PvE or PvP or Sandbox experience.

 

The problem is that the typical MMO player cannot get the numbers out of their head. Regardless of the target audience, all the MMO player wants to see is that "their" game has more players than any other. I don't necessarily see the MMO going back into niche status - the profits from the casual gaming community are far too lucrative for that, but we will have what we see now - the locusts swarming from game to game and after a year or two, the dedicated player remains and the game soldiers on. The only difference is that the initial budgets will not be as huge - the devs and pubs will get out the door the base stuff they want in their game, and once things settle down, they'll begin to add to the development over time instead of trying to cram everything in at launch.

Edited July 4, 2014 by TravelersWay

[DomiSotto]

It sounds like you need a good guild. You might want to consider that. What server are you on? I'll help you out if I can. If I can't, someone else probably can.

 

Thank you, you are very nice. I added the character to a Guild yesterday, actually (on Harbinger). Will see how it works out. In all honesty, I am glad I have read this thread (and responses in the other threads). It makes it far less confusing now the game is about to get off the planetary rails of L1 through 50; I am over-reacting. The paramount is to not want it all at once, of course - the game is mature now, with a rich pool of content. Doesn't mean it is all has to be done at one. Anyway, again, gotta try to whine less

[Vhaegrant]

'Cause = grouping. Firstly, I play solo alts before work, from around 3:30-4 am to 4:45 am. Could run out of time, seeing I am a DPS between queuing wait and the FP itself that will not be in any way shortened by a bumbling newb.

I think this is where my solo play tendencies originate from as well. Long time nightshift worker meant my play times clashed with pretty much every guild I was in and I just got used to solo play over all other aspects.

 

The H's on the planets are kind of not happening as I rarely see more than 20 people per planet lately.

Most PvE servers have a healthy population across all planets. Again this is largely dependant on play time, if you are on at antisocial hours expect to see less. One thing worth mentioning is to check and see if you are on a different planetary instance.

Go into 'Who' panel and do a quick search for that planet, it will tell you how many players to a maximum of 100. Compare that to the number of players on your instance, if it is higher you'll have multiple instances.

Goto the Map pane and down the bottom right hand corner you'll see the world map, if there are multiple instances there should be a selection bar above it. Be warned though the colour indicators (red-heavy pop, yellow-medium pop, white-low pop) are not always accurate, you may lose your target bar on entering the new instance and you can only do it once every couple of hours.

That said Planet chat extends across all instances and if you join a group it prompts for the transfer.

 

Secondly, I have a persistent problem with crashing game while trying to type something in a chat during the FPs, so until I ID the key bind that does it, I do not want to impose with a potential problem like that.

Have you tried playing with the game in windowed [Fullscreen] mode? I know this helps if you tend to use the windows key to flick between apps (I'm poor I don't have multiple screens )

 

Finally, I simply, how to put it? Don't have the guts? Yes, that's the expression.

It's certainly a learning experience. Probably better finding a guild and easing your way into it. DPS don't have too many demands on them in a FP. The 5 basic rules of DPS in groups are:

1) Don't break Crowd Control (so no Area of Effect attacks)

2) Work your way up from weakest opponents through to strongest (red -> silver -> gold -> silver/gold) leaving those CC'd mobs till last.

3) Don't stand in red circles.

4) Let the tank make the pull.

5) If you don't know Boss tactics, ask for the big things to watch out for. Although in most cases it's don't stand near edges, don't stand in red circles.

[DomiSotto]

Thank you. Well, I do get to meet a lot of Australians

 

That's actually one thing I was wondering about, the windowed mode. I do not have 2 screens, but there is a couple of things I wanted to try (recording the battle log is one), and dropping the game window down to the bar initiates a load screen for me. Which is a task and a half for my XP relic of the past that was a real good rig c. 2006 (yes, I am replacing asap).

 

Yes, I am aware of the not standing in a red circle rule, also extending to the pale purple circles, as well as any other shape in an alarming color, stationary or moving. Along with the epiphany that running head on towards a sniper opponent is not recommended unless one is aiming at a quick teleport to a Medcentre (one unforgettable moment with Moff Kilran). I am still patently inept when it comes to keeping the adds off the healer, and need to acquire a skill of easily recognizing & remembering the roles (yes, there are flags; I know. But by some reason it is hard for me).

 

The least intuitive rule, I find, is the weakest to strongest. It goes against the grain and requires discipline and cool head.

 

I want to emphasize that I am saying it all to express that I understand and respect the skill that goes into playing well. Everything in this game is a matter of skill, adapting to the server, cornering the markets, mastering a class, etc. I do not wish to cheapen it by saying it is easy. But I also really hate to come across as a whiner.

[errant_knight]

Thank you. Well, I do get to meet a lot of Australians

 

That's actually one thing I was wondering about, the windowed mode. I do not have 2 screens, but there is a couple of things I wanted to try (recording the battle log is one), and dropping the game window down to the bar initiates a load screen for me. Which is a task and a half for my XP relic of the past that was a real good rig c. 2006 (yes, I am replacing asap).

 

Yes, I am aware of the not standing in a red circle rule, also extending to the pale purple circles, as well as any other shape in an alarming color, stationary or moving. Along with the epiphany that running head on towards a sniper opponent is not recommended unless one is aiming at a quick teleport to a Medcentre (one unforgettable moment with Moff Kilran). I am still patently inept when it comes to keeping the adds off the healer, and need to acquire a skill of easily recognizing & remembering the roles (yes, there are flags; I know. But by some reason it is hard for me).

 

The least intuitive rule, I find, is the weakest to strongest. It goes against the grain and requires discipline and cool head.

 

I want to emphasize that I am saying it all to express that I understand and respect the skill that goes into playing well. Everything in this game is a matter of skill, adapting to the server, cornering the markets, mastering a class, etc. I do not wish to cheapen it by saying it is easy. But I also really hate to come across as a whiner.

 

You don't come across as a whiner at all, just as a person who missed getting the guidance from which I benefitted. That's easy to fix. Also, if you're guild doesn't turn out to be very helpful or friendly, don't be afraid to leave and try another one. Like any social group, some will be a better fit than others.

[Savej]

Now, note....though 14 games and counting now have reported the same thing at different times over the last 10 years, that does not mean this game is typical...it is still possible that this game breaks the mold, so to speak, and has a majority PVP and/or Raid playerbase.

 

There are a few things that stand out that might point to this possibility....first, this game does not have a typical cash flow setup with respect to F2P/Sub players and who pays the most, and also the fact that this game now has casual friendly raids and has had bolster for PVP for a while now.

 

But as time passes, more studies are released and more games go public with playerbase information, IMO it becomes less and less likely.

 

A few points that Turbine reported with respect to LotRO....

1) Raiders make up a very small portion of the playerbase.

2) PvMP (their version of PVP) is a slightly larger group of players, but combined they still represent less than 10 percent of the base.

3) The vase majority of forum posters are Raiders and/or PvMP players.

 

That is the 14th public source I have provided from the MMO market so far, as I promised to do long ago when I was challenged to prove that Raiders and PVP players are a minority of the playerbase, generally speaking, in MMOs (unless they are PVP focused). I would once again call to those that asked me to provide this info....here is your next bit.

 

Source

 

I will continue to post more information, as well as links to two new studies that are being released shortly for the 2013/2014 market in December. I expect the results will be typical.

 

LOTRO's pvp is not pvp. It is junk. I don't say that lightly or often. Turbine's stats regarding pvp in LOTRO are irrelevant. Most that cared about pvp at all didn't play it. If you want to look at pvp stats, add up the ppl that join pvp servers in a new game and add a fraction of those that join other servers and pvp a lot. The number comes out to way more than 10%.

Edited July 12, 2014 by Savej

[ScarletBlaze]

yes, I am talking H4+ on the low level planets (mine is Balmorra). It's still 3 comms for H4+, so you might harvest 12-15 comms per planet, if H4+ pay back comms.

 

My brush with Voss-Kaa showed that we cannot play H4+ on level 48 with the equipment we have (we passed two H4+ on L45 and 47, but could not do the third, L48). Which is indicative that the GF FPs are undoable for my character if she gets thrown in the L50+ pot.

 

And nothing in this game terrifies me more than the prospect of another level cap increase tbh if it as poorly supported in terms of crafting gear and comm gearing as the L50-55 are. Does L50+ gear for comms even exist?

 

 

Once you complete the storyline on Makeb there is a weekly that awards you basic and elite comms that will also help gear your characters. It may take a bit in doing this as I know it does me, if you don't do the weekly on Oricon and the hard mode weekly or the cz weekly but it can help.

 

Basic comms are pretty easy and you can do the dailies solo, yes they can get boring but they can be soloed. Basic comms will give you a chance to get better gear (162) and no you don't have to wear that gear. You can rip the mods out but it will cost you credits.

 

Basic comms are easier to get as there are more places to get them:

 

Section X

CZ

Oricon

Makeb

 

 

Elite comms give you (168) and those are normally given by weekies-Makeb, Orcion, CZ, hard mode flashpoints so if you are limited in time or you don't like to do some things I would suggest Makeb.

 

Its not really hard for the basic comms even for a player that doesn''t play a lot. All my 55 are in 162 gear and so are some of my companions and my time is very limited.

[jorill]

LOTRO's pvp is not pvp. It is junk. I don't say that lightly or often. Turbine's stats regarding pvp in LOTRO are irrelevant. Most that cared about pvp at all didn't play it. If you want to look at pvp stats, add up the ppl that join pvp servers in a new game and multiply that by a fraction of those that join other servers and pvp a lot. The number comes out to way more than 10%.

 

i think that is why la has gone through multiple games according to his thread. If i had to guess i would say the pvp number would be in the 30 percent range in terms of dedicated players at least for mmo's.

[Savej]

i think that is why la has gone through multiple games according to his thread. If i had to guess i would say the pvp number would be in the 30 percent range in terms of dedicated players at least for mmo's.

 

Yes but he has no source or data for those other games. I have played a lot of games also. 30% is probably closer. I remember a BW rep saying that almost half of its players at least occasionally pvp'd and that BW was surprised how many were doing that. I've heard similar "surprised at how many pvp" declarations from EQ1 and Wow reps. Note that pvp development and support in this game is way less than "30% of its resources" and that pvpers have been leaving faster than other players lately.

Edited July 4, 2014 by Savej

[DomiSotto]

Basic comms are pretty easy and you can do the dailies solo, yes they can get boring but they can be soloed. Basic comms will give you a chance to get better gear (162) and no you don't have to wear that gear. You can rip the mods out but it will cost you credits.

 

Basic comms are easier to get as there are more places to get them:

 

Section X

CZ

Oricon

Makeb

 

So, out of sheer curiosity, why does nobody ever mention Ilum? Doesn't it go Corellia-Ilum-Makeb?

[ScarletBlaze]

So, out of sheer curiosity, why does nobody ever mention Ilum? Doesn't it go Corellia-Ilum-Makeb?

 

Ilum only gives classic comms so usually by the time you are level 55 basic comms are better. Same with the black hole.

 

The only time I do the black hole is for the weekly since it will give some basic but the weekly includes a heroic though if you and your companion are geared it can be soloed. The only other time I do it is for the credits.

 

Oh btw the way there is another weekly you can do that only requires one heroic (and the one in Alderaan is normally easily soloed with your companion) and that is the GCI weekly. It requires you getting more missions (the macro bincolars and the seeker droids) to get the macro bincolars and the seeker droids and then you can do the weekly on it.

 

You can pick those up at Alderaan, Tattoine, Hoth and Makeb and for the most part pretty simple except the mobs getting there and the heroic is the only one that requires fighting.

Edited July 4, 2014 by ScarletBlaze

[DomiSotto]

Ty.

[Kalfear]

 

Source

 

I will continue to post more information, as well as links to two new studies that are being released shortly for the 2013/2014 market in December. I expect the results will be typical.

 

Truth is LA, hardcore PVPers (and I was once a hard core PVPer back in day) and hard core Raiders have always been the very vocal minority in MMORPGs.

 

(I say hard core because most players do abit of everything so they dont fall into the all ops (or all pvp) or bust mentality you see from the ops/pvpers claiming to be the largest play style base)

 

Their loud vocal presence has always caused the impression of them being much larger then they really are.

 

Don't even need actual sources (though the numbers are always out there if folks wanna really search it out) honestly, just have to look at the games themselves priorities.

 

UO released all PVP. UO took an insane loss of subscribers when EQ opened. UO almost instantly mirrored their lands and created non pvp landmass. PVP land mass basically emptied out to nothing over night. Not hard to figure out that the majority of people playing UO were not interested in PVP.

 

EQ releases with no pvp beyond self flaging (which almost no one did)

Eventually they give in to the endless spam of demands for pvp servers so they make 2.

Endless numbers of pve servers and 2 pvp server that for period while I was there (until DAoC released) were under populated.

 

DAoC, a game whose major draw was RVR released with 0 pvp servers.

Eventually they made 3,

1 closed down and merged less then 2 months later from no population.

with in 9 more months the 2 PVP servers merged into 1

By time SWG released there was talk of deleting the 1 pvp from lack of population

 

This same routine regarding pvp plays out in every moderately to massively successful MMORPG made.

 

And lets not forget the great successes of Shadowbane and other all PVP MMORPGs.

Havent heard of Shadowbane?

Dont worry, most didn't because it closed down fairly quickly realizing 100% pvp doesn't fly in MMORPGs for the mass majority of players.

 

As for Raids/Ops. Its good content but its even smaller pond of players (as you pointed out yourself).

 

These are nitch play styles on the level of Crafting, Role Playing, even mini games.

They all have their place in MMORPGs but they are NOT the most important aspect as you so often read on forums (from the same people re posting over and over and over)

 

PVE (leveling, questing, dailies, dungeons/flashpoints, exploration) has always been the major draw to MMORPGs and probably always will be.

 

Developers that fail to understand that truth usually end up paying a heavy price for it in the end.

[Vhaegrant]

So, out of sheer curiosity, why does nobody ever mention Ilum? Doesn't it go Corellia-Ilum-Makeb?

 

Many PvE players are in the headlong rush to get to max level so they can start on the Operations and end game gear grind, Ilum is no longer part of that path, if you are levelling well you should hit 50 on Voss and go straight to Makeb. I know, I can't understand players that don't do all the story

Many PvP players remember Ilum as the Open PvP World that failed at launch, you can still see their tears when the Gree event rolls around

Some solo players like myself see Ilum as a quick source of credits (about 90k for 15-20mins), I use it to remember rotations on alts if I haven't played them in a while. I much prefer the Imperial dailies than the Republic ones, [Poisonous Strategy] is a personal favourite, for no other reason than it offers a little variation, you never know the combination of 2 jedi you will face. And the skybox is one of the best there is

[Savej]

Truth is LA, hardcore PVPers (and I was once a hard core PVPer back in day) and hard core Raiders have always been the very vocal minority in MMORPGs.

 

(I say hard core because most players do abit of everything so they dont fall into the all ops (or all pvp) or bust mentality you see from the ops/pvpers claiming to be the largest play style base)

 

Their loud vocal presence has always caused the impression of them being much larger then they really are.

 

Don't even need actual sources (though the numbers are always out there if folks wanna really search it out) honestly, just have to look at the games themselves priorities.

 

UO released all PVP. UO took an insane loss of subscribers when EQ opened. UO almost instantly mirrored their lands and created non pvp landmass. PVP land mass basically emptied out to nothing over night. Not hard to figure out that the majority of people playing UO were not interested in PVP.

 

EQ releases with no pvp beyond self flaging (which almost no one did)

Eventually they give in to the endless spam of demands for pvp servers so they make 2.

Endless numbers of pve servers and 2 pvp server that for period while I was there (until DAoC released) were under populated.

 

DAoC, a game whose major draw was RVR released with 0 pvp servers.

Eventually they made 3,

1 closed down and merged less then 2 months later from no population.

with in 9 more months the 2 PVP servers merged into 1

By time SWG released there was talk of deleting the 1 pvp from lack of population

 

This same routine regarding pvp plays out in every moderately to massively successful MMORPG made.

 

And lets not forget the great successes of Shadowbane and other all PVP MMORPGs.

Havent heard of Shadowbane?

Dont worry, most didn't because it closed down fairly quickly realizing 100% pvp doesn't fly in MMORPGs for the mass majority of players.

 

As for Raids/Ops. Its good content but its even smaller pond of players (as you pointed out yourself).

 

These are nitch play styles on the level of Crafting, Role Playing, even mini games.

They all have their place in MMORPGs but they are NOT the most important aspect as you so often read on forums (from the same people re posting over and over and over)

 

PVE (leveling, questing, dailies, dungeons/flashpoints, exploration) has always been the major draw to MMORPGs and probably always will be.

 

Developers that fail to understand that truth usually end up paying a heavy price for it in the end.

 

I played Shadowbane. It was a click-to-move game (no wasd movement - you clicked on a spot on your screen to move there - this was after EQ1 and AC1 and maybe even CoH). And it was very very buggy made by a small developer with a small budget. The only reason it lasted as long as it did was because of its pvp. I can easily point out games that released that were PVE-only and largely failed anyways.

 

And just because the PVP server format didn't work for a couple games does not mean that many players in those games did not PVP.

 

If you want to say "only a small minority of players are hardcore <anything>" I would hope that is true but that doesn't mean anything.

[Vhaegrant]

I think this illustrates the nature of MMOs and the divisive nature of attaching labels such as PvE, PvP, RP.

 

The vast majority of players in an MMO will try a little bit of everything as they level, especially if they are new to the genre.

 

Experienced MMO players are more likely to hit the scene of a new MMO in a prebuilt guild with their intentions already set. Tear through the levelling content as fast as possible (a mindset learnt from other MMOs where levelling was a grind), hit end game content, clear it, get fed up running the same content week after week and then leave to the next big MMO on the scene. Rinse repeat. You only have to look at retention rates after a launch to get a sense of the scale (although that's not limited to MMOs the number of games I was still playing two years after launch is not a large number.)

 

This means there is an established group of players with all the best gear expecting the newcomers to fill their ranks or provide them with a challenge. And are then surprised when the majority of new comers to end game go... Hmmm not really my cup of tea, think I'll go level a new character or try a different game.

[errant_knight]

There's a lot of truth to that. Thing is, I was as new a newcomer as it's possible to be. First mmo ever. I love ops. I couln't figure out how to chat for days. I didn't want to group with people for heroics because it was intimidating. Fps were even scarier. I knew noting about gear at all and didn't know what a rotation was of why I'd want to use one. You can get from there to hm DF/DP and have a really good time along the way. Don't go straight to DF, start with sm EV, for one thing.

 

I'm sure pvp is just as fun for those who enjoy it, but I can't handle the way pvpers talk to and about each other. That's just not fun for me. Those with thicker skin prob love it as much as I love ops, lol.

Edited July 4, 2014 by errant_knight

[MaximusRex]

LordArtemis, Have you seen the Blizzard post (I have been looking for it, but they post so much I can't find it) on their LFR program and how they measured the success of it? Blizzard was built to be a raiding game, but they also found that while they were spending the majority of their resources developing raid content, only a minority of their player base was using it. It's been a while, but I want to say they indicated only about 5% were raiding before LFR and it went up to about 50% after.

 

I think WoW is a good game to have in the conversation, because it was built from the beginning by EQ raiders to be a better Raiding game. Their dedication to raiding meant they were willing to keep trying to bring the raiding population in line with the effort of making raids. It seems like games like LOTRO (which also added a group finder that never took off) and SWTOR, who seems to be trying to adjust Group Finder and Rewards to get more people to do OPS, might not try as hard as Blizzard has to save content that takes a lot of time and resources to make for little use.

 

It seems to me if the SWTOR raiding community is serious about SWTOR having a strong OPS game, they need to do more to reach out to those who aren't raiding and try to make it more accessible for them.

[Vradic]

Endgame content raiders and hardcore Pvpers have never been the backbone of an mmo since late '04, nor will they be again. Sure they are the loudest, most entitled bunch out there, no denying that. Hell, I used to be one of them.

 

You wanna know who the true backbone is? Go to some mid level planet, and watch mr unknown average joe questing guy. Out there, on his 9th alt, gathering, watching the story lines, doing the sides quests, subbing. Not the knob sitting in fleet at the gtn all day, spamming exp boosts, tank queuing flash points. Rushing to that endgame weekly op, completing it, then ************ about a lack of content, and how casuals and the Cm are ruining his game, even though those casuals are dumping money into it. Instead he bought all the unlocks he needed to cancel his sub, so he can leech off those casuals.

 

See we all already know how that vocal minority operates. They are a plague. They move from new mmo to new mmo, hitting endgame, posting about it on the forums, on how they should be catered to hand and foot, then they move to the next new shiny thing. They don't care about the product they voice on, they just care about what that product can do for them and how fast it's done.

[Kalfear]

See we all already know how that vocal minority operates. They are a plague. They move from new mmo to new mmo, hitting endgame, posting about it on the forums, on how they should be catered to hand and foot, then they move to the next new shiny thing. They don't care about the product they voice on, they just care about what that product can do for them and how fast it's done.

 

Disagree with that

 

They are not plagues (as you put it) but they are also not the priority (as they like to believe)

 

Good solid PVP (which SW:TOR does NOT HAVE FTR) can add amazing depth to a game.

DAoC had the right blend when they launched going end game focus of RVR but in a way that promoted realm unity and interaction. Sadly they themselves didnt understand that and started to ignore their PVE side and focus only on RVR making it less and less a sociable experience and more and more an elitist experience till they crashed and burned. But early on they had the almost perfect mixure and template for PVP/RVR and the game was amazing for it.

 

That's the trick with PVP, you gotta get away from elitist/uber gear score mentalities and make it more a social experience where the weak are not preyed on by the over powered (like it is in SW:TOR with expertise eliminating skill)

 

Good well planed out PVP can add a ton of dimensions to a game.

 

Ops/Raids same thing. If you dont create a special class of elitists through ops but focus more on none power level changing rewards you acheive to things. 1) The ops become more social friendly allowing for people who are not hardcore to be involved, and 2) you dont give the elitists the means in game to be anti social and well elitists who think they better then others (which so often turns out untrue anyways when level balance achieved)

 

I remember MMORPGs before Raids/Ops, it was a much more social and friendly place/enviroment in MMORPG timeline.

 

Developers need to get through their heads to reward skill. Not by making a skilled player a alpha character (their skill should allow for that anyways) but by rewarding them with rewards that make them stand out (for lack of better words, ego boost items)

 

But both Ops/Raids and PVP, when done right, enrich and enhance games and give all players that extra option of activity to do.

 

I firmly beleive that development in percentages should be split in this manner

 

80% PVE (thats leveling, dungeons/flashpoints/dailies/quests, cosmetic)

 

10% should be focused on REAL PVP (not this warzone junk that SW:TOR has but large open pvp zone that has defensible/claimable buildings and outposts with objectives that reward entire factions rather then individuals or small groups)

 

The remaining 10% should be split up evenly on Raids/Ops, Crafting, Housing, Minigames (such as Pazzaak, swoop bike racing, ect), Events (like Rakghoul, Bounty, ect)

 

Everything is important in its own right but its gotta be prioritized to make sense.

[Vhaegrant]

I firmly beleive that development in percentages should be split in this manner

 

80% PVE (thats leveling, dungeons/flashpoints/dailies/quests, cosmetic)

 

10% should be focused on REAL PVP (not this warzone junk that SW:TOR has but large open pvp zone that has defensible/claimable buildings and outposts with objectives that reward entire factions rather then individuals or small groups)

 

The remaining 10% should be split up evenly on Raids/Ops, Crafting, Housing, Minigames (such as Pazzaak, swoop bike racing, ect), Events (like Rakghoul, Bounty, ect)

 

Everything is important in its own right but its gotta be prioritized to make sense.

 

As long as it's prioritised to favour your preferred playstyle

 

Personally, I think Open World PvP in a Class and Level based system with a focus on gear (and additional PvP boost stat) is a terrible waste of resources. There's zero game balance, which I thought was supposed to be at the heart of PvP. Or, is it more that what players really want is to be able to set up 'Real world' encounters where fairness is the last thing to be considered. Attacking in overwhelming numbers and then fading away as soon as any decent challenge is mounted?

 

It's a nice idea to have every game style under one roof. I just don't think it's achievable.

 

The demands of group PvE (and to a certain extent group PvP) favour discreet character roles where specialisation is a must and the best gear (usually a singular build) is required to progress.

 

Solo PvE and PvP favours a more generic character build (well I say that, really solo PvP favours stealth and burst damage, oh and ganking lower level characters), and when I say generic I mean DPS. When was the last time you came across a quest that was for tanks or healers? it's not even there as bonus content in the class quests.

 

There are many reasons the transition from casual content to hard content is seldom worth the effort. Not least is the time requirement. Getting 8 players together can be like herding cats and in a less focused guild no-shows and long waiting periods beyond the agreed start time are common events. This can demoralise most, not to mention when players start to feel like they are making headway there is a temptation to leave to a more 'Hardcore' guild, good for them as their skill improves, but they strip the ability away from the original guild too.

 

Then look at how most 'hardcore' players go through content they've cleared a hundred times before. It's stun and stealth past mobs, jump over obstacles to bypass mobs, seriously I honestly think if you left the FP design to 'Hardcore' element it would be a corridor of hurdles and a single Boss fight. After all its about getting it done as quickly as possible to get the drops. Never mind about actually wanting to see the cutscenes as a newcomer

[Jandi]

Even though I've been raiding since the days of Anarchy Online (merc raids... ugh) I never thought myself as important or anything. I only voice my concerns about raiding when the encounters themselves have problems, not about the lack thereof because no amount of crying will ever make a developer rush out a raid, only publisher pressure does that (hello EV). The amount of generalizations in this thread is asinine, grow the hell up.