Sentinel Mara sucks in pvp

[scylence]

No because mara's still wouldn't have H2F.

 

or taunts or reflect or free smash or push+leap reset (important one here)

Edited May 28, 2014 by scylence

[foxmob]

mara doesn't suck, despite popular opinion. BW just nerfed the retard spec, and combat requires a lot more skill than focus. and I'm not taking shots at focus players. I play a VG. neither of those dps specs are rocket science, and assault is the simplest spec in the game to play competently. even focus isn't crap. it's just not easy cleave spec anymore. every suggestion I've seen about improving combat is geared toward making the spec's uber ability as simple to pull off as lolsmash was. that's a bad idea. if you want it to be that simple, then you need to reduce the dmg from precision slash window. cuz it's going to land almost all the time.

[L-RANDLE]

Hold on a sec, there. Lately you have been making a lot of sense but the above is not one of those times.

 

DT=Deadly Throw (Maraduer)

DST=Dual Saber Throw (Marauder)

CT=Crippling Throw (Sentinel--same as Marauder DT)

RAV=Ravage (Marauder)

FC=Force Choke

 

You stacked the CCs by 1 which makes it appear as though we have one more snare than we do--but if you really want to pick nits, there is leg slash (don't know anyone willing to waste a gcd on that) and the Watchman/Annihilation Cauterize/Rupture which acts as a snare for half the duration of Leg Slash.

 

And, Force Choke (Force Stasis) is kinda a root with a caveat: It requires the Marauder/Sentinel to be rooted for the duration as well. It's not as glorious as you make it out to be. It is useful, no doubt, but it certainly is more useful to Watchman than to the other two specs (allowing the user to hold the victim in place while the burns...burn). It lasts for 3 seconds--that's two gcds--for maybe 4k if it crits. AFAIK it is not affected by Zen from Ataru either.

 

Farther down the chain of posts you claim that Force Camouflage is 50% DR. Yeah, that's nice...except that if you're not targeted you're not hit with direct damage. It serves to mitigate burns, aoes and environmental damage, but it only lasts 4 seconds normally (six seconds in Watchman/Annihilation with Force Fade/Phantom which costs TWO skill points). Furthermore, aoes cancel the effect and it only breaks roots high in the Combat/Carnage tree with Fleet Footed/Unbound--again for Two skill points. As for movement speed, .3 x crap in combat speed = crap.3

Summary: "So my damage sucks because I can't deal damage when I'm stunned"

 

 

Yes I meant LS, and "wasting a CD" is your opinion, which we can dabate, but the context of the response is that the option is there to be utilized and how am I making it "glorious", again the context.

 

And we weren't talking about Ani/Rage.... So most of your points are moot because even IF you are trying to approach this from a whole AC, last I knew Carnie/Com is one of them, hence making Anti-CC OP for that spec.

 

 

So.. are you joining the permafull resolve-poo flinging monkey crew?

 

[Edit] BTW since you are in the red marker mood FC=Force Charge.

Edited May 28, 2014 by L-RANDLE

[Butwaldgrim]

Nice write up. I get what some of you guys are saying. "Play withing your means" which is all fine and dandy and it's exactly what I am doing, but what would be nice to see is a little less reliance on healers to get us through the day. Most of us don't join as a premade so we just have to roll with what we're given. Sometimes it works, other times it's a living hell. Especially on those days where every warzone you seem to get matched up against all ranged with no healers on your side. You just want to sit in a corner and hide.

 

Umm, excusing me but I am sure the wolf attempts to improve language skills, but in the end you get some skills, I need to have done more harm to the poor. Why not go for everyone?

[Aztian]

I know L2P yadda yadda yadda... whatever. I have 5 (going on 7) lvl 55 toons (Sniper, Guardian, Shadow, Sniper, Sentinel, Vanguard, Sage, Scoundrel) and my Sentinel by far is the most useless is PVP. It's not even a question as to which it the biggest crutch in PVP. Can't guard nodes worth a damn, can't attack without a healer, stunned, rooted, CC to death. It's a lesson in frustration to play. I do so right now for the comms, for the practice, and in the hopes that someday the class will be fixed.

 

I know comparing my Sentinel to my Guardian is like comparing Apples to Oranges, cause one is so over the top OP right now (thanks to ED and H2F) but Sentinels need to be a little more viable than 3 seconds in combat, my Guardian can last literally for minutes at a time in 3 v 1 situations. At least give her a chance to fight. As soon as I engage I'm stunned and mowed down. My favorite moments from last night was one when an Op opened from stealth on me and literally chain stunned and back stabbed me until I was dead. The second time was when I was electro stunned vs a Merc while he opened up on me with a series of shots bringing me down to almost no HP.

 

It's pretty obvious whenever someone see's Sentinel/Mara in Regs they're pretty much going for the "Free Kill" I know that's the way I feel when I play against them with my alts. It's especially fun when I can triple DoTs them with my Sniper and just watch them melt away helplessly in seconds....

 

When I'm in solo arenas I realized we pretty must lost if we have at least 2 Sentinels on our team. Seriously something needs to be done. I don't want FOM changes but just enough to be viable again. CC immunity would help a TON. And so would self cleans (on force cammo)

 

You are so right.....

 

 

I have been a Prebeta marauder for SO LONG I remember the days where Ahi spec was really good in pvp I AM NOT TALKING smash monkeys... Now that's out of the way... Yes, we die too fast.. Tanks have the same dps as we have and have 34 k heals and better shields, etc. I can keep going, but YES to The OP poster you are so right.. MY operative has yet not lost to a sel yet EASY KILLS

[Zalgred]

I am sorry but you are wrong... sentinels/marauders are wicked, always been...

 

this class is the hardest to play right... you have to be very aware of all your skill and know when to use them, otherwise you will suck...

 

Good players playing sentinel/marauder will dominate in pvp... The sad thing is that focus/rage line made playing sentinel almost to easy, with only needing to press a few skill and have big numbers... now that line is not as strong as it was.

[Zoom_VI]

Tanks have the same dps as we have

 

I want what this guy had.

[L-RANDLE]

I want what this guy had.

 

I think you got a bad trollavator unit.

[Vodrin]

Operatives and Mercs have exactly ONE four second hardstun. If you are dieing that fast I suggest some gear and augments. Assassins top out at 6 seconds of hardstun maximum.

 

And if you know what you are doing you use your CC break on the 4 second sin hard stun making it only two seconds of hard stun.

 

Mara/Sent keep being sold as bad 1v1 classes. They are not. I have my sent set up with a little lower power and hence bonus damage than most do so I can stack higher crit. I find this gives me more effective burst. When I get an OA proc with full focus and centering there is literally no class that I can't burst down in the span of one zen. It's amazing how often I will kill a jug before he can pop ED (even a tank), or an op before he can pop evasion and role. It just happens too fast.

 

That insane burst allows you to overcome health deficits that no other class can in a 1v1. Do I lose 1v1? Sure, but I am not the best player out there, merely good. Elite players beat me regularly, and even some terrible ones do when I screw up.

 

Truth is though that sent/mara in combat/carnage spec is currently one of the stronger PvP specs in the game when played to it's potential. Problem is that it is very difficult to play to that potential as both it's defensive and offensive capabilities are not passive and require activation at the right times to work well. Jugg/Guards are far more forgiving now, and so are many other classes, but the performance ceiling is still lower in many cases.

 

Buffing this spec in any way other than making it easier to play without making it stronger will kill the spec when the inevitable nerf comes. This is my main and the class I enjoy the most, so I do not want to see this.

[Cordorian]

And if you know what you are doing you use your CC break on the 4 second sin hard stun making it only two seconds of hard stun.

 

Mara/Sent keep being sold as bad 1v1 classes. They are not. I have my sent set up with a little lower power and hence bonus damage than most do so I can stack higher crit. I find this gives me more effective burst. When I get an OA proc with full focus and centering there is literally no class that I can't burst down in the span of one zen. It's amazing how often I will kill a jug before he can pop ED (even a tank), or an op before he can pop evasion and role. It just happens too fast.

 

That insane burst allows you to overcome health deficits that no other class can in a 1v1. Do I lose 1v1? Sure, but I am not the best player out there, merely good. Elite players beat me regularly, and even some terrible ones do when I screw up.

 

Truth is though that sent/mara in combat/carnage spec is currently one of the stronger PvP specs in the game when played to it's potential. Problem is that it is very difficult to play to that potential as both it's defensive and offensive capabilities are not passive and require activation at the right times to work well. Jugg/Guards are far more forgiving now, and so are many other classes, but the performance ceiling is still lower in many cases.

 

Buffing this spec in any way other than making it easier to play without making it stronger will kill the spec when the inevitable nerf comes. This is my main and the class I enjoy the most, so I do not want to see this.

 

why the hell do you alway make so much sense....

[Pekish]

I am sure someone already mentioned it they do no sucks but they are not the best class to play as "solo" player

 

what u are bringing to the table is high dps in a team/objective oriented gameplay were dps help but is really not what will make you win overall

 

i admit in hut ball their mobility is somehow interesting but overall his utility is limited especially in CV and AV.

in Void it can be good in a fix team where burning down player can help a lot capping door but at same time if ur team is not well coordinated this won't help at all

 

as sentinel you feel you cannot do much to change the match if you win you feel someone else actually did carry you and if you lose you probably couldn't do much to change it

 

Sentinel is a very very specific gameplay that shine in group fight where ur group is coordinated.

If you play solo and u don't interact much with other player of ur team you will probably feel pretty useless

but it's not because the class is bad it's just the way it play is different then other class (as it should be!)

[Marxxis]

All I want is our stun to be instant, like everyone elses. We have to get beat on while we channel it and it's vulnerable to pushback.

[foxmob]

All I want is our stun to be instant, like everyone elses. We have to get beat on while we channel it and it's vulnerable to pushback.

 

and interrupt. iunno why I interrupt it, but on my merc when I'm on the back line (not being focused) I'll just interrupt whatever. lol

[Sappharan]

Summary: "So my damage sucks because I can't deal damage when I'm stunned"

 

 

Yes I meant LS, and "wasting a CD" is your opinion, which we can dabate, but the context of the response is that the option is there to be utilized and how am I making it "glorious", again the context.

 

And we weren't talking about Ani/Rage.... So most of your points are moot because even IF you are trying to approach this from a whole AC, last I knew Carnie/Com is one of them, hence making Anti-CC OP for that spec.

 

 

So.. are you joining the permafull resolve-poo flinging monkey crew?

 

[Edit] BTW since you are in the red marker mood FC=Force Charge.

 

Perhaps I was a little over the top with the "glorious" comment.

 

I realized after I posted that you were responding to Chosonman's post regarding Combat/Carnage, but felt that editing at that point would have appeared diffident.

 

Force Charge does add a small measure of control, but it's more useful to Watchman than it is to Combat or Focus due to minimum range required to use it.

 

No, I am not going to join whatever club you think is all the rage now. Combat does not, in my opinion, need any adjustments. This does not mean I don't want improvements, but ANY improvement is usually seen as too strong, so I'd rather just settle for what we have now. The Gimped by the Force nerf should revert to what it was, but that probably won't happen. I was merely endeavoring to prevent the "Sentinels are overpowered" crowd from seizing upon what I thought (past tense) was an error.

[Sappharan]

Buffing this spec in any way other than making it easier to play without making it stronger will kill the spec when the inevitable nerf comes. This is my main and the class I enjoy the most, so I do not want to see this.

 

Precisely why *I*, you and other critical thinkers believe that Combat/Carnage needs no improvements.

[scylence]

All I want is our stun to be instant, like everyone elses. We have to get beat on while we channel it and it's vulnerable to pushback.

 

That is def something that would work.

 

Maybe the following=

 

Stagger renamed to Blademaster's Resolve: While in Ataru form, Force leap has a [50/100]% chance to grant Blademaster's Resolve which grants immunity to knockback and sleep effects for [1/2]s

 

 

Addition to Contemplation: Reduces the cooldown of Awe by [7.5 / 15] seconds. In addition, you build up to [15 / 30] Centering over the course of using Introspection. This effect cannot occur more than once every 30 seconds. Whenever you have 30 centering your force stasis no longer needs to be channeled, applying it's full effect over 3s.

[ToMyMa]

and interrupt. iunno why I interrupt it, but on my merc when I'm on the back line (not being focused) I'll just interrupt whatever. lol

 

Same here - when it actually worked with smash I had a reason, but nowadays I just do it because I'm an arse

 

Tanvir, ruining everyone's day since 2012

[Cretinus]

Combat/Carnage just needs some version of unstoppable even if its just knockback and sleep protection for a few seconds on leap and nothing else.

 

Focus/Rage seems to be in a good spot, but I never really played it for more then a game here and there even when it was the big thing.

 

Anni/Watchmen well..... doesn't really need *uncleanseable* Dots, what it really needs is something more creative/intuitive, like a talent that does damage to the target instantly for each DoT cleansed.

 

Like "Cleansed Backlash"

Each time one of your damage over time effects are cleansed the target who was cleansed receives *Cleansed backlash* for X seconds, causing X amount of damage to them every time they cast an ability.

 

or

 

Each time one of your Damage over time effects is cleansed, the cleanser and the target cleansed each take X damage instantly and have all healing received reduced by X % for X seconds

 

 

As for the class as a whole. Undying Rage/GBTF needs a rework or have the health taken as soon as you pop it and give it some sort of CC break on use.

 

The reason why juggs have unstoppable is because they're not such a high burst specc, so they need more uptime. Maras/sents have the most insane burst in game. Give them more uptime and they will be able to solo everything.

 

Concerning the dots, why not "each time one of your dots gets cleansed, the cleanser, the target cleansed and all their complete team die and the respective toons get deleted"?

Get real. Either dots get cleansed, or they don't. That's all.

 

Anyway. One thing's for sure: Maras/sents are the most self-entitled specc there is in this game.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Cretinus

[aq_swagga]

The trick with combat/carnage is to save your PS+MS/gore+ravage with zen/berserk for after your enemy has used his knock backs and stuns.

 

For example you're fighting a sorc: don't hesitate to run right at them, because odds are they'll instinctively knock back or stun you, then try and get some distance. At this point you can leap to them, start building your rage/focus up. Make sure you have 30 stacks of fury/centering. Gore+massacre/PS+BR them under zen/berserk and you'll be sure to get all your procs up, while putting a number on them as well. Also if they try and kite you use your dual saber throw to slow them, or your deadly/crippling throw to root them (must be spec'd into). At this point they should use their knockback/stun (whichever they haven't already used previously). If they knock you back just camo and run towards them (carnage/combat has a root break on camo when spec'd into) get behind them and gore+ravage /PS+MS as well as whatever other procs you have left over (execute/opportune attack and the free dispatch/vicious throw. Make sure to use your cloak of pain/rebuke as soon as you get focused, and saber ward if you feel you're getting focused by more than 2 enemies.

 

Fighting a good merc is also a pain but definitely not impossible, just use the same strategy listed above except watch for the e net, I generally break the e net so I can leap and choke/stasis them followed by pacify/obfuscate to nullify their unload/power shot/railshot. Try to delay them as much as possible to let the net run out. But it's all about saving your major burst for when they've already used their CC's and knockbacks.

 

It's definitely difficult without a healer but not impossible, just make sure you use your leap and camo effectively (it's rarely a good idea to leap in first to your target) as well as your DCDs, AoE CC, 90% melee and ranged accuracy debuff, and your roots/ranged AoE slow.

 

 

Also don't hesitate to switch to a nearby target if your initial target becomes way out of range, situational awareness is key when playing a mara/sent.

Edited May 29, 2014 by aq_swagga
Typo

[patisawesome]

You need to understand and practice the class. The class has more than enough countering cc's, Caterize, force stasis, that flashing aoe cc, crippling throw, leg slash. The class is also incredibly useful for killing healers with interrupts tag teamed with crippling throw which can be used on the protecting tanks as well. The class also has pacify, which lowers 90% of the opponents accuracy which trigger's reposit and protection, above the 4(barrier, rebuke, camouflage ,undying rage (forgot the sent's name for that)) ignoring the global cool down.

 

While running Combat, you also have precision slash which also ignores global cool down and increases armor penetration (useful for tanks). On top of ataru form damage and two global cool-down ignoring abilities is inspiration and transcendence which are incredibly beneficial to teams.

 

The rest of your arguments are invalid, an op can do that to anyone, and cc's are all a part of strategy. A bad player is a bad player, its not about if there are multiple sentinels on your team, its if they're good or bad players. If you don't know how to react in situations its you, not the class. If you've played all those other classes then you should know their strengths and weaknesses and act accordingly.

 

If you don't know your class you'll be inefficient. The class is hard, but its incredibly good.

 

The only thing you should be complaining about is cyclone slash.

[Dawginole]

Operatives and Mercs have exactly ONE four second hardstun. If you are dieing that fast I suggest some gear and augments. Assassins top out at 6 seconds of hardstun maximum.

 

 

LOL wut? An appropriately geared Sent/Mar should be in Might armorings, Deft Mods, Adept/Initiative enhancements, power augs, and power/surge implants/ear.

 

This is ALL low endurance equipments maximizing dmg and bonus dmg. If you are suggesting other gear then you have no idea what you're talking about. If one is suggesting appropriate Sent/Mar gear then they are suggesting gear that hinders hit points in exchange for dmg. Gearing to maximize hit points in exchange for dmg does two things wrong: It reduces Sent/Mar output and provides roughly 3k additional health which realistically adds no survivability and reduces viability of the class over a slightly lower dps class with high survivability.

[Treblt]

http://www.swtor.com/leaderboards/character/4611686932529706495

 

/5char

[Zoom_VI]

LOL wut? An appropriately geared Sent/Mar should be in Might armorings, Deft Mods, Adept/Initiative enhancements, power augs, and power/surge implants/ear.

 

This is ALL low endurance equipments maximizing dmg and bonus dmg. If you are suggesting other gear then you have no idea what you're talking about. If one is suggesting appropriate Sent/Mar gear then they are suggesting gear that hinders hit points in exchange for dmg. Gearing to maximize hit points in exchange for dmg does two things wrong: It reduces Sent/Mar output and provides roughly 3k additional health which realistically adds no survivability and reduces viability of the class over a slightly lower dps class with high survivability.

 

Did I say anywhere in that post that sentinels should be maxing endurance? No I did not. A properly min/maxed sentinel is still going to have over 30k HP, and there is no way a single attacker is going to kill a 30k max expertise player in four seconds. That was the point.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Zoom_VI

[Cretinus]

Marauders are fine and need to l2p urgently. Stop facetanking the complete zerg and you will live longer.

[Dawginole]

Did I say anywhere in that post that sentinels should be maxing endurance? No I did not. A properly min/maxed sentinel is still going to have over 30k HP, and there is no way a single attacker is going to kill a 30k max expertise player in four seconds. That was the point.

 

50% health reduction from an OP or Sin out of stealth proves otherwise. At that point options are limited: DCD's until lucky RNG gives proc and you are in a hit point race till you die and they are at 30%, invis and run away, or no DCD's are available and you survive 1 additional global and die. Sounds like a killer dps that everyone is scared of facing.