Is it normal to get hit by Assasin and Shadows for 9.3k through force armor?

[cycao]

We have a winner, Thank you sir, with the list powers about and lets throw in discharge/voltage slash. Oh and not to mention the stunlocking. @ maul I'm sorry the results speak load and clear. Stunlocking spamming /voltage/discharge/maul. on a target that can't fight back is simply skill less.

 

'spamming volatage(?)/dischage/maul'...You know that two of those are not spammable and possibly 3 of those since I have no idea what voltage is.

[cycao]

It's so far out of line that it needs to be adjusted. You can practically kill two people with the tools you have.

 

Seriously man. I'm open for ideas but knock this two vs one crap. Have I done it, yes. Have I done it against decently skilled players, no.

[Brunner_Venda]

'spamming volatage(?)/dischage/maul'...You know that two of those are not spammable and possibly 3 of those since I have no idea what voltage is.

 

You have a lot of people complaining that don't understand the spec. They just can't articulate their frustration well about your overpowered class.

 

I do. I have one. It needs a nerf.

[sithBracer]

One and a half minutes, close enough. It's not 15 seconds like recklessness. And no, you don't have to blow a combat stealth to get it. Just AOE taunt the other guy, it throws him into combat. Not you.

 

Wait what? I'm sorry but you completely lost me there.

[cycao]

You have a lot of people complaining that don't understand the spec. They just can't articulate their frustration well about your overpowered class.

 

I do. I have one. It needs a nerf.

 

Well apparently the devs will disagree with you. They feel fine with the high level of burst with low level sustained damage output which is why they're not even going to attempt to balance those two types of damage without giving from one and taking from another for a while.

[sithBracer]

Well apparently the devs will disagree with you. They feel fine with the high level of burst with low level sustained damage output which is why they're not even going to attempt to balance those two types of damage without giving from one and taking from another for a while.

 

Except they are giving PT/VG more sustained damage even though they have a high level of burst. I honestly do not understand why they decided to give it to assualt/Pyro rather than tactics/AP.

[jediharrsion]

'spamming volatage(?)/dischage/maul'...You know that two of those are not spammable and possibly 3 of those since I have no idea what voltage is.

 

in fact I do know, but the point of not being able to avoid it is the real issue, Assassin/shadow have 3 stuns that don't break right away on damage having a cc breaker in that case is unless. with the abilities I listed they will kill you in 4-5 seconds anyway, and if you do in fact break 1 of the stuns ( I'm speaking as a Sentinel/Marauder ) they will just stun you again. imho that show a complete lack of skill, in most cases they will stun you for up to 8-9 seconds. and we have already covered that they can kill in 4-5 seconds ( Half the time )

[cycao]

in fact I do know, but the point of not being able to avoid it is the real issue, Assassin/shadow have 3 stuns that don't break right away on damage having a cc breaker in that case is unless. with the abilities I listed they will kill you in 4-5 seconds anyway, and if you do in fact break 1 of the stuns ( I'm speaking as a Sentinel/Marauder ) they will just stun you again. imho that show a complete lack of skill, in most cases they will stun you for up to 8-9 seconds. and we have already covered that they can kill in 4-5 seconds ( Half the time )

 

Assassin CC

-Electrocute: 4 second hard stun

-Spike: 2 second hard stun (can only be used from stealth unless speced into Hand Of Darkness)

-Whirlwind: 8 second mez with a 2 second cast, breaks on damage.

-Mind trap: 8 second mez, only usable from stealt, breaks on damage.

-Low Slash: A specced 4 second mez, weapon damage which is subjective to defenses, breaks on damage.

 

So there are two (2) stuns the assassin has which do not break on damage, the rest do. As far as killing someone in 4-5 seconds (1.5 gcd would land just two hits) is next to impossible unless the stars align on a terribly unfortunate sorc. As far as stunning someone for 8 seconds, yes almost all classes can do this with a mez and for any duration longer than that (IE another form of CC like a hard stun or mez) will result in a full white bar.

[Elusive_Thing]

If it's terrible, it's apparently still good enough to bring me below 50% HP. But then again, Marauders have a glass jaw (second to DPS operatives apparently) so I'm not sure what to make of your response. And I'm in full Obroan, save for augments that don't add anything more than extra damage and around 3k hp, which won't do anything but delay the inevitable.

Under 50% with one Duplicity Maul and two non-Duplicity ones? If he hits you for, say, 13k with the Duplicity one, he still has a long way to go. The Low Slash won't proc Duplicity at all due to the ten second internal cooldown. That also means that the Sin in question is using 100 Force on two Mauls, after already tossing Spike, Duplicity Maul and Low Slash. The two last Mauls will hit like wet noodles and Low Slash's damage is hardly worth mentioning. Even if that combination magically got you to less than 50%, the enemy Shadow/Sin is so grossly incompetent that you should be able to tickle him to death once your laughter fades away.

 

As a last point, crits. If that combo got you to under 50%, all three Mauls probably critted. If you run with a Critical chance of 24-ish %, Exploitive Strike gets that to 33% for the Mauls. And you only get Exploitive Strike there if you crit with Spike. All in all, the scenario you described is a sum of some amazing luck with a healthy dose of L2P.

 

Edit: Cycao is providing some valid points and he seems to have this figured out rather well. Thanks for acting as the voice of reason here.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Elusive_Thing
A quick addition

[foxmob]

Maybe complain was too strong of a word, but you did say that sins wreck them while VGs die before they get to them. In arenas if you can't beat a ranged as a VG the problem is definitely you and not the class. Below is your entire quote:.

not rocket science here. a VG cannot pull a sniper. the sniper can start working over the VG at 35m. when the VG reaches the sniper, he can stun, roll away, finish the VG. that's MM. Engineering is actually much better. you make the VG waste his HTL approaching you and if he continues to approach you (solo) then he's dead or you're bad.

 

Mando just needs to keep an eye on the distance between himself and the VG. HTL when he tries to pull you. you'll know when he's about to pull you by the distance and whether he popped HTL or not himself. you see, unless he's retarded, he knows you'll just punt him if HTL isn't active, and punt cd is shorter than harpoon. as a pyro, you can unload all of your burst from 30m. the VG needs 10m. if you lose to the VG, it's because he's better than you, not because he's a VG and you're a mando. with net off CD, mandos don't have an excuse against any dps really. if you're still want to do the 1v1 business.

 

Sages...well...yeah. they're sages. they'll rape anyone if allowed to free cast and drop to anyone who doesn't let them.

 

VGs rely on smuggle to get them close so they can open close and save their closer. that's teamwork. that's one team beating another (or not). that's not "OMGZ VGs so op!"

[foxmob]

A PT melted me in 3-4 GCDs more than once. You obviously don't know how to play your class and use your bursts as well as you think..

 

I think you missed something. the burst, when it hits, is tremendous. but there's a ramp up involved. you have to throw 3 missiles/grenades (that's 2 gcds) then hib ip/ss that successfully procs another hib (3 more gcds). that's a total of 5 GCDs minimum if he's going to mess you up. are you sure you weren't taking dmg from other sources or that you weren't counting the nades on you?

[foxmob]

On Pyro and deception are the ridiculous outliers.

 

jesus F*(kstick. I give up. I can't read this thread anymore.

 

the ridiculousness of pulse generator NOT being tied to high energy cell was one of the more op screw-ups this game has ever seen.

 

ED is less obtrusive but still in the ball park...maybe patrolling left or right field.

 

the most detrimental "buff" to the game was bubble stun era.

 

:2cents:

 

ok. now done.

Edited May 27, 2014 by foxmob

[sithBracer]

not rocket science here. a VG cannot pull a sniper. the sniper can start working over the VG at 35m. when the VG reaches the sniper, he can stun, roll away, finish the VG. that's MM. Engineering is actually much better. you make the VG waste his HTL approaching you and if he continues to approach you (solo) then he's dead or you're bad.

 

Snipers melt anyone they catch from 35m. But LoS is their worst enemy. If you LoS them they will be forced to stand and move and that is when you harpoon them. Not rocket science here.

 

Mando just needs to keep an eye on the distance between himself and the VG. HTL when he tries to pull you. you'll know when he's about to pull you by the distance and whether he popped HTL or not himself. you see, unless he's retarded, he knows you'll just punt him if HTL isn't active, and punt cd is shorter than harpoon. as a pyro, you can unload all of your burst from 30m. the VG needs 10m. if you lose to the VG, it's because he's better than you, not because he's a VG and you're a mando. with net off CD, mandos don't have an excuse against any dps really. if you're still want to do the 1v1 business.

 

A pyro merc? roflmao. That's a good one. As if anyone would bring a pyro merc into ranked they are asking for a beating from the enemy team. And you have plenty of opportunity to pull him. When he uses full unload or casts ... anything is when you pull.

 

Sages...well...yeah. they're sages. they'll rape anyone if allowed to free cast and drop to anyone who doesn't let them.

 

Sages have better survivability now with egress, and they are even tougher for assassins to fight than for VGs. For an assassin +10 distance is death.

 

VGs rely on smuggle to get them close so they can open close and save their closer. that's teamwork. that's one team beating another (or not). that's not "OMGZ VGs so op!"

 

Assassins also rely on their team. Everyone relies on everyone else. This is a team game, no one player can beat a team that works together. Heck no one player can beat a 2v1 even unless the 2 are garbage.

[Zoom_VI]

Mando just needs to keep an eye on the distance between himself and the VG. HTL when he tries to pull you. you'll know when he's about to pull you by the distance and whether he popped HTL or not himself. you see, unless he's retarded, he knows you'll just punt him if HTL isn't active, and punt cd is shorter than harpoon. as a pyro, you can unload all of your burst from 30m. the VG needs 10m. if you lose to the VG, it's because he's better than you, not because he's a VG and you're a mando. with net off CD, mandos don't have an excuse against any dps really. if you're still want to do the 1v1 business.

 

Why would I pop HTL before pulling? If you are worried about being KB'ed on landing then you fire Grapple while moving sideways, by the time the pulled target lands you are 10m away so any KB they use won't do anything , you can then apply TD/IM/whatever10mskillyoufeellike and then run in with HTL.

 

Besides if you want to use a melee ability (lets say you're an AP and want to gut them) then you would grapple them and then hit HTL during the GCD so that HTL is active before they land, and doesn't give away your intentions.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Zoom_VI

[sithBracer]

I think you missed something. the burst, when it hits, is tremendous. but there's a ramp up involved. you have to throw 3 missiles/grenades (that's 2 gcds) then hib ip/ss that successfully procs another hib (3 more gcds). that's a total of 5 GCDs minimum if he's going to mess you up. are you sure you weren't taking dmg from other sources or that you weren't counting the nades on you?

 

Nope. It was a 1v1 in their huttball endzone. I ganked him when he first came out of spawn, he seemed to get a little angry and just started looking for me after he came out again. My hard stun, resilience, medpack and combat stealth were on CD (should've just waited another 30s), I got half of my opener, my hp was less than half (like 10-15k) after my shock and discharge. I used my procced maul hoping for one of those legendary 10k's, but it wasn't in the cards, 3.5k. He popped his DCD, I popped mine and was finished off after that (probably tech damage). So shock, discharge, maul is 3. Maybe it was 2 more, so could've been 5. My PW was placed too close so it wouldn't help to use it in his case.

[Jiminison]

My main is a min/maxed assassin and I crit people for 10-12k hits one after another, I can 3 shot people especially in regs.

 

Last, anyone who told you sin/shad is not good in ranked is completely retarded. Sin/Shadow is hands down one of the best PVP classes in the game and when you run into a highly skilled one you will be swiftied/globaled in 5s or less at times.

 

Yet the tank is a ridiculously squishy and a non factor thats where the buffs need to go( to the tank). Inf hits through my defensive cd like there is nothing there.

[MCaliban]

Wait what? I'm sorry but you completely lost me there.

 

He's saying that if you are in stealth and you AOE taunt, you don't leave stealth.

 

I have no idea if it forces enemy players into combat. I don't believe it does.

[Ehbuse]

He's saying that if you are in stealth and you AOE taunt, you don't leave stealth.

 

I have no idea if it forces enemy players into combat. I don't believe it does.

 

 

Depends if the person you taunt is in combat or not

[sithBracer]

He's saying that if you are in stealth and you AOE taunt, you don't leave stealth.

 

I have no idea if it forces enemy players into combat. I don't believe it does.

 

What? What does that have to do with resetting recklessness without a combat stealth?

[foxmob]

A pyro merc? roflmao. That's a good one. As if anyone would bring a pyro merc into ranked they are asking for a beating from the enemy team. And you have plenty of opportunity to pull him. When he uses full unload or casts ... anything is when you pull..

 

let me get this straight. I roll my eyes at the idea that you're going on about WZs. but I go along with your WZ crap in which various ACs do 1v1, so you come back at me with "that will never work in ranked."

 

• VGs are fine.
  
• Sins are ok but should trade a little burst for more sustained.
  
• maras...not too bad; if they want gore to be easier to use, then they need to accept that it won't be as powerful an effect.
  
• mandos and snipers would be fine if certain classes didn't have max burst in 2 gcds.
  
• jugg dps is way too tanky; they need to be more like AP PTs in survivability (note that AP's uber defense only kicks in while they aren't freely going through their roto).
  

 

stop spouting drivel about pyro being op when it takes 5 gcds to bring you down. like sins don't bring other ppl down as fast or faster. hell. what class couldn't bring 2 or more dps specs down in 5 gcds???

 

good job pointing out that 1v1 in hb when you you stuff was on cd. because any class couldn't wreck any other class when one's stuff is on cd and the other's isn't.

[ZahirS]

let me get this straight. I roll my eyes at the idea that you're going on about WZs. but I go along with your WZ crap in which various ACs do 1v1, so you come back at me with "that will never work in ranked."

 

• VGs are fine.
  
• Sins are ok but should trade a little burst for more sustained.
  
• maras...not too bad; if they want gore to be easier to use, then they need to accept that it won't be as powerful an effect.
  
• mandos and snipers would be fine if certain classes didn't have max burst in 2 gcds.
  
• jugg dps is way too tanky; they need to be more like AP PTs in survivability (note that AP's uber defense only kicks in while they aren't freely going through their roto).
  

 

stop spouting drivel about pyro being op when it takes 5 gcds to bring you down. like sins don't bring other ppl down as fast or faster. hell. what class couldn't bring 2 or more dps specs down in 5 gcds???

 

good job pointing out that 1v1 in hb when you you stuff was on cd. because any class couldn't wreck any other class when one's stuff is on cd and the other's isn't.

 

 

Red part I dont agree, Sins really need a fix which is NERF just as Guardians got fixed in 1.7 patch and so on.

 

Basically I can confirm Sins do 7k dmg even to a defense spec Tank, this doesnt make sense I mean then we all should re roll a Sin/Assasin.

 

The thing is this works everytime in PVP and healers heal for less % in Warzones so yes this is a big impacting issue.

[sithBracer]

let me get this straight. I roll my eyes at the idea that you're going on about WZs. but I go along with your WZ crap in which various ACs do 1v1, so you come back at me with "that will never work in ranked."

 

And here starts the personal "nothing to do with the conversation" attacks losers always start. Awww but you said this and my mommy said that when she meant this and I meant that. Grow up. You started talking about getting owned by a ranged class so I assumed you were talking about wzs where they are actually decent. You said you were talking about ranked so I switched to ranked discussion. And fyi, pyro merc isn't that great in regs either.

 

Sins are ok but should trade a little burst for more sustained.

 

What is a little burst?

 

stop spouting drivel about pyro being op when it takes 5 gcds to bring you down. like sins don't bring other ppl down as fast or faster. hell. what class couldn't bring 2 or more dps specs down in 5 gcds???

 

Mine obviously genius. I didn't have my DCDs or my hard stun but I still had my low slash proc, my CrD and my recklessness. All that wasn't enough to get me even close to his burst.

[MCaliban]

What? What does that have to do with resetting recklessness without a combat stealth?

 

Why are you asking me?

[sithBracer]

Why are you asking me?

 

Well you did kind of answer for him so I assumed you knew what he was talking about. Either way it was a more general question for anyone to pick up.

[ZahirS]

Well you did kind of answer for him so I assumed you knew what he was talking about. Either way it was a more general question for anyone to pick up.

 

Im pretty sure you werent directing your comment at him/her so...

 

I think this needs fixing.

Edited May 28, 2014 by ZahirS