Is it normal to get hit by Assasin and Shadows for 9.3k through force armor?

[Tonev]

Just wondering about this as last night, I played against a pre-made team and while I stood my own as I could being focused and such. I got hit several times by an Assasin for 9.3-9.5k through my force armor. I figured that it was more than this as usually that bubble takes the initial death field hit, Merc general ranged attack volley or Saber throw hit which can range anywhere from 3-5k in damage.

 

Upon death after being hit I think twice (with 2018 expertise) and dying, the last hit was counted to be 9.3kish damage which by my estimate (with bubble) could have been between 12.3k-14.3k damage. How the heck is this even possible in PvP for this class that people say doesn't do well in ranked to hit this damn hard?

 

Even on my Sniper who I have played against many Shadows and Assassin have never been hit this hard in PvP in or out of war zones. Just wondering as somone said that I was hit probably by one of the EU hackers in game"what ever this means".

[Sounders_Fan]

its probably a force potency powered up force breach hitting for that much. I have seen people be hit for 11k, so with force armor 9k would probably be in the ball park if the assassin/shadow has all their buffs going when you are hit.

[Aztian]

lol ...

 

 

Try be a marauder .. before u get 10 rage you are 40% health .. from a OP assas-shadow

Edited May 19, 2014 by Aztian

[Ld-Siris]

lol ...

 

 

Try be a marauder .. before u get 10 rage you are 40% health .. from a OP assas-shadow

 

Lol I guess if you sit there and let him hit you.

[Brunner_Venda]

lol ...

 

 

Try be a marauder .. before u get 10 rage you are 40% health .. from a OP assas-shadow

 

Maul with the double duplicity is nasty on a crit, 12-14K isn't out of range. Basically, it's half your health in one hit no matter how you look at it. It's a little too much, and there's no CD or rate limit to even it out.

 

The problem is that white damage got a huge bolster boost last update. It's game breaking on some specs.

 

Meanwhile, deception sins are screaming for more buffs. Because they claim that this almost never happens, even if it is possible.

[alexsamma]

lol ...

 

 

Try be a marauder .. before u get 10 rage you are 40% health .. from a OP assas-shadow

 

I've had a carnage mara/combat sent on my *** in every ranked game tonight, you might be "squishy" but you pack a punch yourself... this is like the pot calling the kettle black.

 

White/weapon damage buff helped a lot of specs/classes, pt, mara, jugg, sin...

[Ld-Siris]

Maul with the double duplicity is nasty on a crit, 12-14K isn't out of range. Basically, it's half your health in one hit no matter how you look at it. It's a little too much, and there's no CD or rate limit to even it out.

 

The problem is that white damage got a huge bolster boost last update. It's game breaking on some specs.

 

Meanwhile, deception sins are screaming for more buffs. Because they claim that this almost never happens, even if it is possible.

 

Lol white damage buff is not game breaking at all. It but it on par with force/tech damage as it had been lacking for quite some time.

 

And yes there is a rate limit on duplicity but there are 2 things that auto proc it on a separate rate limit. Spike which has a really long cd and low slash which also has a cool down though not as long. And both are white dmg so they can also miss. Learn the facts buddy.

Edited May 20, 2014 by Ld-Siris

[MusicRider]

Well your bubble must have taken hits and was low in its "hp" (probably around 2-3k left). But yes a procced maul hits much harder now, I've noticed 11k+ hits that previously were in the range of 8-9k.

[djcetra]

My main is a min/maxed assassin and I crit people for 10-12k hits one after another, I can 3 shot people especially in regs.

 

Last, anyone who told you sin/shad is not good in ranked is completely retarded. Sin/Shadow is hands down one of the best PVP classes in the game and when you run into a highly skilled one you will be swiftied/globaled in 5s or less at times.

[JamesBalla]

Maul with the double duplicity is nasty on a crit, 12-14K isn't out of range. Basically, it's half your health in one hit no matter how you look at it. It's a little too much, and there's no CD or rate limit to even it out.

 

The problem is that white damage got a huge bolster boost last update. It's game breaking on some specs.

 

Meanwhile, deception sins are screaming for more buffs. Because they claim that this almost never happens, even if it is possible.

 

Yeah sadly its that garbage Assassin class rep who keeps screaming for buffs for every spec.

Edited May 21, 2014 by JamesBalla

[Leafy_Bug]

Yeah sadly its that garbage Assassin class rep who keeps screaming for buffs for every spec.

 

I hope you get 'mauled' all day long to #qq a bit more seeing the lack of respect you have on these forums. Quoted for evidence in case he edits.

[snave]

I hope you get 'mauled' all day long to #qq a bit more seeing the lack of respect you have on these forums. Quoted for evidence in case he edits.

 

You can quote me too, she's a perfect example of what was wrong with the class rep system and she has asked for buffs without considering the consequences to other aspects of the game.

[Elusive_Thing]

You can quote me too, she's a perfect example of what was wrong with the class rep system and she has asked for buffs without considering the consequences to other aspects of the game.

PvE-wise, Deception should be buffed though. Doing that without the changes having a major impact on PvP is a difficult matter, however. In PvP, Deception is good, but I would not consider it overpowered. PvE is the problem. So asking BW to buff DPS Assassins (Deception in this case, Madness is getting buffed a lot) is actually called for, even though Deception hasn't got serious problems in PvP.

[snave]

PvE-wise, Deception should be buffed though. Doing that without the changes having a major impact on PvP is a difficult matter, however. In PvP, Deception is good, but I would not consider it overpowered. PvE is the problem. So asking BW to buff DPS Assassins (Deception in this case, Madness is getting buffed a lot) is actually called for, even though Deception hasn't got serious problems in PvP.

 

I agree deception needs more sustained, lowering their burst to accommodate this isn't rocket science and in fact this lovely chap went and did all the maths for you.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=739031

 

Deception isn't necessarily over powered but it's large and on demand burst is a little on the high side mainly due to it being on demand. Madness is going to be FOTM in 2.8, maybe I should start brown nosing to the devs like she does, perhaps they'll buff operatives then.

[cycao]

I agree deception needs more sustained, lowering their burst to accommodate this isn't rocket science and in fact this lovely chap went and did all the maths for you.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=739031

 

Deception isn't necessarily over powered but it's large and on demand burst is a little on the high side mainly due to it being on demand. Madness is going to be FOTM in 2.8, maybe I should start brown nosing to the devs like she does, perhaps they'll buff operatives then.

 

I honestly cant wait for the threads to start popping up.

[Elusive_Thing]

I agree deception needs more sustained, lowering their burst to accommodate this isn't rocket science and in fact this lovely chap went and did all the maths for you.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=739031

Read that thread backwards and forwards and I agree, the poster was lovely. Solid ideas as well, very solid.

 

Deception isn't necessarily over powered but it's large and on demand burst is a little on the high side mainly due to it being on demand. Madness is going to be FOTM in 2.8, maybe I should start brown nosing to the devs like she does, perhaps they'll buff operatives then.

I would have to problem trading some of the burst for sustained, since I do both PvP and PvE. The additional cooldown reduction to Recklessness from the set bonus means you can enter your burst phase rather often... The difference between my Deception Sin and Scrapper Scoundrel is like night and day in the regard.

[sithBracer]

Meanwhile, deception sins are screaming for more buffs. Because they claim that this almost never happens, even if it is possible.

 

So are you PTs the pot or the kettle? Let's not forget which spec is actually getting the buff for both sins and PTs. For sins it's madness, the worst spec in the game, for PTs it's your already slightly OP pyro spec.

 

No deception sins are asking for damage buffs in PvP, we're asking for sustained damage in PvE. Almost all suggestions are things that do not affect PvP.

 

14k maul crits (while they do happen) are very rare and only happen against sorcs (but the fact that sorcs have garbage armor and no decent DCD is a different story). If you want to stop being butt hurt by sins so much, play the class and learn to counter it. It is surprisingly not hard.

[undiess]

Yeah sadly its that garbage Assassin class rep who keeps screaming for buffs for every spec.

 

Sounds more like garbage reading skills. Class Rep has been asking for buffs specific to PvE and Madness PvP. Has not asked for buffs based around Deception, which is what the OP is referencing here. But attempt at troll was excellent, rage so tasty.

[foxmob]

PvE-wise, Deception should be buffed though. Doing that without the changes having a major impact on PvP is a difficult matter, however. In PvP, Deception is good, but I would not consider it overpowered. PvE is the problem. So asking BW to buff DPS Assassins (Deception in this case, Madness is getting buffed a lot) is actually called for, even though Deception hasn't got serious problems in PvP.

 

I don't really disagree, but the problem with Deception (in terms of pvp) is very acute: yolo queue. they open with huge burst that is both guaranteed and cannot be countered because of the nature of stealth classes. they're still squishy-ish and can easily be focused down. the problem is that in yolo queue, you don't have a balanced composition. it's usually 4 dps vs. 4 dps, or 3 dps + 1 heal vs. 3 dps + 1 heal. without the mitigation of a guard and the guarantee of at least one tank AC to taunt, just about any spec in the game is going to melt.

 

However, I think deception is not dominant in 4v4 as they were actually designed (1 heal, 1 tank, 2 dps). what are you going to do? balance the game around a solo queue for a team "sport"? then again, as far as rated goes, solo queue is much more popular than 4's. iunno. it's something of the fabled impasse. I do sympathize with devs who have to make a decision of any kind here. whatever they do is bound to be "wrong."

[sithBracer]

However, I think deception is not dominant in 4v4 as they were actually designed (1 heal, 1 tank, 2 dps). what are you going to do? balance the game around a solo queue for a team "sport"? then again, as far as rated goes, solo queue is much more popular than 4's. iunno. it's something of the fabled impasse. I do sympathize with devs who have to make a decision of any kind here. whatever they do is bound to be "wrong."

 

Yeah, for all the crap we give them, they aren't doing such a horrible job with the time and resources they have.

[Brunner_Venda]

So are you PTs the pot or the kettle? Let's not forget which spec is actually getting the buff for both sins and PTs. For sins it's madness, the worst spec in the game, for PTs it's your already slightly OP pyro spec.

 

No deception sins are asking for damage buffs in PvP, we're asking for sustained damage in PvE. Almost all suggestions are things that do not affect PvP.

 

14k maul crits (while they do happen) are very rare and only happen against sorcs (but the fact that sorcs have garbage armor and no decent DCD is a different story). If you want to stop being butt hurt by sins so much, play the class and learn to counter it. It is surprisingly not hard.

 

Trust me, I would rather they leave assault VG's alone. They are about to overpower the spec by a long shot and just set it up for game wrecking nerfs later. If they wanted an ops viable spec, they should have buffed Tactics, which wouldn't overpower it in PVP at all because their biggest move is a three second channel AOE that does 12K or so if all three ticks crit.

 

Nobody ever said Bioware was smart however.

 

The difference is that unlike shadows, vanguards can't hit for 14k on anything, our best proc ability has a built in rate limit, and all of our attacks have a respectable cooldown. Deception needs to give a little of that burst for sustained.

 

PS: there are three pyros in the top fifty ranked. Want to count sins? Just because you make the most noise doesn't mean you actually need buffs.

Edited May 21, 2014 by Brunner_Venda

[sithBracer]

Trust me, I would rather they leave assault VG's alone. They are about to overpower the spec by a long shot and just set it up for game wrecking nerfs later. If they wanted an ops viable spec, they should have buffed Tactics, which wouldn't overpower it in PVP at all because their biggest move is a three second channel AOE that does 12K or so if all three ticks crit.

 

Agreed, AP should have been the spec they buffed for PvE.

 

The difference is that unlike shadows, vanguards can't hit for 14k on anything, our best proc ability has a built in rate limit, and all of our attacks have a respectable cooldown. Deception needs to give a little of that burst for sustained.

 

You can't hit anything for 14k in one hit. But when you combine the DoTs, the explosive dart, the setup and the actual burst attack. You can easily get more than 15k quickly. Maul on the other hand, is an attack that can only hit a person from behind, in melee distance and should only be done on a proc.

 

I know it's easy to just see the very few times we get 14k's against sorcs, point a finger and "you're op", but there are a lot of things you don't see. Like all the times maul doesn't crit and only hits for 3-4k. All the times maul just misses completely; that one annoying GCD between your first and second procced shock; when you are consistently stuck in combat and running out of force and you can't stealth out because you have 4 DoTs on you; how fast you melt when you are focused; frustration of not being able to stealth because there are DoTs on you that the healer doesn't want to/is unable to cleanse. All these things happen way more often than that 14k maul crit. All in all this is a fun class and is currently in a very good place especially damage-wise and especially in solo ranked arenas. But it is very overrated and pretty far from being OP.

 

PS: there are three pyros in the top fifty ranked. Want to count sins? Just because you make the most noise doesn't mean you actually need buffs.

 

And how many are in the top 100 or the top 200? there are 400k+ players and the top 25 elite players do not represent everyone, especially when you consider the fact that ranked is not even played often in any servers besides TOFN these days. Not everyone is roudy with a guild like DRAMA. I know that they are the best of the best and their skill level should be something that is considered when talking about a class, but you have to accept that the vast majority is not them.

 

Play the class. Learn its strengths and weaknesses, and learn how to counter it. Don't just parrot the leaderboards, since they mean absolutely nothing.

[AlrikFassbauer]

And how many are in the top 100 or the top 200? there are 400k+ players and the top 25 elite players do not represent everyone, especially when you consider the fact that ranked is not even played often in any servers besides TOFN these days. Not everyone is roudy with a guild like DRAMA. I know that they are the best of the best and their skill level should be something that is considered when talking about a class, but you have to accept that the vast majority is not them.

 

Yes, but the top best players DID choose one class over another one - plus, the "peer pressure" considers them as role models, fashion models, whatever. I'm sure that quite a lot of players just look at the leaderboards, take a look at the top entries, and choos THEIR class to play based on THAT. Becauuse they just want power, they just want to dominate everyone else, too.

 

I know that they are the best of the best and their skill level should be something that is considered when talking about a class

 

And the leaderboards give them the impression that

"if THEY had been choosing this class, it must be good for ME as well."

 

If ghuilds like Drama - your example - choose a certain class, people will arghue that their reasoning why they had been explicitely choosing THIS class must have solid grounds, and that their were not using irrational and unlogical reasons to choose THEIR classes -

- so, players will assume that what is good must be good for them, too.

 

It's simply herd behaviour - and the top players and the people in these forums here just aren't aware of herd behaviour existing, because they usually only do their solo / guild / team thing, but not a herd thing. They are simply not interested in the implications of their actions.

Edited May 21, 2014 by AlrikFassbauer

[Brunner_Venda]

You know, I'd buy the argument of say, 15-20% of the top 50 were PT's

 

The fact that only three out of FIFTY people chose PT means that there's a problem. Skill plays a huge part in ranked play, but so does class mechanics. I mean, The only class with fewer slots than PT is probably madness sin

 

PS: I have a sin, and without really knowing how to play it well, it dominated the damage and kill counts in every match. People I dueled... Just died. I can completely understand how playing one makes you think that you're a lot better than you are because it didn't require much effort.

 

Hell, most of my mauls worked fine even in front to the side a little. It usually triggers anywhere in a 300 degree arc. So much for 'behind' lol. Sometimes it would bug though, and it wouldn't allow an attack even when you're staring at the guy's *** for five full seconds. No maul!

Edited May 21, 2014 by Brunner_Venda

[sithBracer]

Yes, but the top best players DID choose one class over another one - plus, the "peer pressure" considers them as role models, fashion models, whatever. I'm sure that quite a lot of players just look at the leaderboards, take a look at the top entries, and choos THEIR class to play based on THAT. Becauuse they just want power, they just want to dominate everyone else, too.

 

They dominate with many other classes as well. They made that famous video where they dominated a cookie cutter setup with 4 sorcs back when arenas came out.

 

 

And the leaderboards give them the impression that

"if THEY had been choosing this class, it must be good for ME as well."

 

If ghuilds like Drama - your example - choose a certain class, people will arghue that their reasoning why they had been explicitely choosing THIS class must have solid grounds, and that their were not using irrational and unlogical reasons to choose THEIR classes -

- so, players will assume that what is good must be good for them, too.

 

It's simply herd behaviour - and the top players and the people in these forums here just aren't aware of herd behaviour existing, because they usually only do their solo / guild / team thing, but not a herd thing. They are simply not interested in the implications of their actions.

 

It is more of a delusions of grandeur kind of thing. People look at the top 10 and instead of thinking "those people are very good, well organized and probably practiced for months", they think "their class is the only reason they are there".

 

On a related note, someone did a parse of the leaderboards and according to it shadows/assassins aren't as well off as the top 25 make them look: http://i.imgur.com/mkkrIyD.jpg . In season 1 group ranked they were very well behind PTs (I didn't believe that were that low then, but I can't really disprove it). Now they are pretty well even; juggs and op healers are dominating the charts in group ranked.