Undying Changes

[Nekrall]

So I have been playing a Marauder since release, currently #5 in world. I seem to be having some problems altering my playstyle around the changes, been doing the same things for a long time =/.

 

Just wanted to post a quick thread to feel out how Marauders are doing with the change to undying. I've worked out a couple new ways of how not to get obliterated the second it wears off, but the whole change seems very counter intuitive. Mainly what I'm doing is not using force camo in any type of offensive capacity and saving it for when undying is almost up. Sucks to have to do it, but it is the only way I seem to be able to deal with the changes at the moment.

 

How are my fellow marauders dealing with it?

[NvrShoutNvr]

you weren't meant to find a way around it. You were meant to become killable. And that's exactly what happened. You dont need tank cooldowns as a melee DPS, sorry. Marauders are exactly where they need to be right now. The damage is always going to be a little more than most classes, you're a marauder. The only thing you can do is damage, and the fact that you do more than everyone else is perfectly acceptable. But the fact that you could just get lolhealedtofull after you popped undying was a tad ridiculous. Welcome to the world of the mortals. Edited December 4, 2013 by NvrShoutNvr

[slowantics]

feels the same.

[Savej]

you weren't meant to find a way around it. You were meant to become killable. And that's exactly what happened. You dont need tank cooldowns as a melee DPS, sorry. Marauders are exactly where they need to be right now. The damage is always going to be a little more than most classes, you're a marauder. The only thing you can do is damage, and the fact that you do more than everyone else is perfectly acceptable. But the fact that you could just get lolhealedtofull after you popped undying was a tad ridiculous. Welcome to the world of the mortals.

 

Which tanks use abilities that sacrifice half their health? GBTF is not a tanking ability.

[Pwnboy]

So I have been playing a Marauder since release, currently #5 in world. I seem to be having some problems altering my playstyle around the changes, been doing the same things for a long time =/.

 

It's only been a day since the patch, I'd have been surprised if you had been able to rework it into a class where it hasn't changed in over 2 years already.

 

Just wanted to post a quick thread to feel out how Marauders are doing with the change to undying. I've worked out a couple new ways of how not to get obliterated the second it wears off, but the whole change seems very counter intuitive. Mainly what I'm doing is not using force camo in any type of offensive capacity and saving it for when undying is almost up. Sucks to have to do it, but it is the only way I seem to be able to deal with the changes at the moment.

 

How are my fellow marauders dealing with it?

 

I've personally just used it the same as I always have so far, more of a last line of defense/ace in the hole in the cooldowns we got. It felt a little too easy to just pop it and *BAM* kolto injection or dark infusion hits and I wasn't in any terrible danger of dying after it wore off.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Pwnboy

[Raansu]

They could of increased the CD, removed the talents that buffed it in focus tree, hell remove the CD reduction from the set bonus... but having health drop after an ability ends is a terrible design. I hate it on endure pain and i hate it on GBTF now. There were tons of ways to "nerf" an ability that was never really OP (just bad players who don't know how to stun/root/slow) but hey, its BW, they never know what they are doing....just look at the vengeance/scrapper "buff"...lol

[cashogy_reborn]

They could of increased the CD, removed the talents that buffed it in focus tree, hell remove the CD reduction from the set bonus... but having health drop after an ability ends is a terrible design. I hate it on endure pain and i hate it on GBTF now. There were tons of ways to "nerf" an ability that was never really OP (just bad players who don't know how to stun/root/slow) but hey, its BW, they never know what they are doing....just look at the vengeance/scrapper "buff"...lol

 

lmao.

[Racter]

I just try and put it out of my mind as an option. Waiting til its over to medpack seems terribly unreliable so I stopped saving my medpack for it too. Not that bad, but definitely sucks.

 

(Also *#6 solo queue huehuehue)

[Sappharan]

you weren't meant to find a way around it. You were meant to become killable. And that's exactly what happened. You dont need tank cooldowns as a melee DPS, sorry. Marauders are exactly where they need to be right now. The damage is always going to be a little more than most classes, you're a marauder. The only thing you can do is damage, and the fact that you do more than everyone else is perfectly acceptable. But the fact that you could just get lolhealedtofull after you popped undying was a tad ridiculous. Welcome to the world of the mortals.

 

What is your main?

 

It needs a nerf.

 

Personally, I think Gimped by the Farce should be scrapped altogether and we should get heavy armor.

[Raansu]

lmao.

 

Hey look, its one of those bads.

[NogueiraA]

you weren't meant to find a way around it. You were meant to become killable. And that's exactly what happened. You dont need tank cooldowns as a melee DPS, sorry. Marauders are exactly where they need to be right now. The damage is always going to be a little more than most classes, you're a marauder. The only thing you can do is damage, and the fact that you do more than everyone else is perfectly acceptable. But the fact that you could just get lolhealedtofull after you popped undying was a tad ridiculous. Welcome to the world of the mortals.

 

Let's think about in what you're saying here...

What's the marauder class objectives? They are the first line of offensive atacks. Tanks are in the back protecting healers, while the marauder have to jump in the middle of 5~6 people.

What it means? A lot of damage taken. A lot of stuns and double stun all the time, so this class spend not exaggerating 40% of the match stunned. They can't activate a defensive cooldown while stunned. So when they don't die after 8secs stunned, they have 5% HP left, pop Undying Rage and do as much damage as you can in this short time before you die.

Cammo + undying rage is the key for survivability through so many stuns. Remember, this class do not have a 4sec stun, the trade off is a huge burst aoe critical + defensive cooldowns, this is what people do not understand.

Now tells me, which other dps class spend 40% of the match stunned? Smash Juggernauts, but they have crap survivability that needs to be buffed. Stealthers choose their fights, if they are being stunned over and over they are playing the class wrong.

You say "welcome to the mortals world"... Ok, I won't jump there to press the enemy healer, I'll let him LOS your ranged atacks and heal everybody to full. I know I'll die in the first 6 seconds without cammo or undying rage, so I won't jump there. I'll let you "mortal" ranged deal with all the enemy ranged being healed free cast by their healer.

I think you play a sorcerer or a mercenary, pretty sure. Can you deal with the enemy healer + ranged classes all together? Go ahead, have fun going after the enemy healer.

 

Imagine a tank spending 50% of the health 15~20k HP to survive 5 seconds... Look how bad your is your argument.

You take way more than 5 seconds to take out 15k from a good tank.

 

Why you don't understand all of this? Because you do not play one.

Most damage taken in warzones, healers and marauders. Not even tanks, only if he is guarding that focused healer.

So if you're the most damage taken class, what do you need? Defenses.

What's the trade off of huge burst aoe critical? no 4sec stun and just a few seconds to do damage through so many stuns.

TL;DR: all marauders should play like mortal classes, so they won't jump in the middle of 6 people to press the enemy healer, they should let you ranged mortals be LOS'ed and see all the enemy be healed to full by that healer that you can't reach.

[PloGreen]

Just roll a pt/vanguard that's what a lot of the fotm types are doing.

 

I will just say what was said to me when my sage got nerfed - adapt and learn to play.

Edited December 4, 2013 by PloGreen

[Glower]

TL;DR: all marauders should play like mortal classes, so they won't jump in the middle of 6 people to press the enemy healer, they should let you ranged mortals be LOS'ed and see all the enemy be healed to full by that healer that you can't reach.

 

Welcome to juggernaut-dps boat!

[PloGreen]

Let's think about in what you're saying here...

What's the marauder class objectives? They are the first line of offensive atacks. Tanks are in the back protecting healers, while the marauder have to jump in the middle of 5~6 people.

What it means? A lot of damage taken. A lot of stuns and double stun all the time, so this class spend not exaggerating 40% of the match stunned. They can't activate a defensive cooldown while stunned. So when they don't die after 8secs stunned, they have 5% HP left, pop Undying Rage and do as much damage as you can in this short time before you die.

Cammo + undying rage is the key for survivability through so many stuns. Remember, this class do not have a 4sec stun, the trade off is a huge burst aoe critical + defensive cooldowns, this is what people do not understand.

Now tells me, which other dps class spend 40% of the match stunned? Smash Juggernauts, but they have crap survivability that needs to be buffed. Stealthers choose their fights, if they are being stunned over and over they are playing the class wrong.

You say "welcome to the mortals world"... Ok, I won't jump there to press the enemy healer, I'll let him LOS your ranged atacks and heal everybody to full. I know I'll die in the first 6 seconds without cammo or undying rage, so I won't jump there. I'll let you "mortal" ranged deal with all the enemy ranged being healed free cast by their healer.

I think you play a sorcerer or a mercenary, pretty sure. Can you deal with the enemy healer + ranged classes all together? Go ahead, have fun going after the enemy healer.

 

Imagine a tank spending 50% of the health 15~20k HP to survive 5 seconds... Look how bad your is your argument.

You take way more than 5 seconds to take out 15k from a good tank.

 

Why you don't understand all of this? Because you do not play one.

Most damage taken in warzones, healers and marauders. Not even tanks, only if he is guarding that focused healer.

So if you're the most damage taken class, what do you need? Defenses.

What's the trade off of huge burst aoe critical? no 4sec stun and just a few seconds to do damage through so many stuns.

TL;DR: all marauders should play like mortal classes, so they won't jump in the middle of 6 people to press the enemy healer, they should let you ranged mortals be LOS'ed and see all the enemy be healed to full by that healer that you can't reach.

 

Get over yourself - your not the only class that kills and pressures healers, suggest you learn to deal with the chabges or reroll - and yes I also have a 55 sent, your being over dramatic and a nerf was long overdue. This is how mmos work. Just look at the class representation in arena, this was always going to happen.

[Cretinus]

The old undying rage was an offensive + defensive CD. Offensive cause it would buy a close to death mara time to kill 1 or 2 and defensive because it would give him a very good chance to come out less close to death then he was before. That was simply too much, no other class has a CD that works offensively + defensively at the same time in this manner.

The way it is now, it's an offensive CD. It buys him time to kill 1 or 2 before getting killed. That's fine.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Cretinus

[PoliteAssasin]

you weren't meant to find a way around it. You were meant to become killable. And that's exactly what happened. You dont need tank cooldowns as a melee DPS, sorry. Marauders are exactly where they need to be right now. The damage is always going to be a little more than most classes, you're a marauder. The only thing you can do is damage, and the fact that you do more than everyone else is perfectly acceptable. But the fact that you could just get lolhealedtofull after you popped undying was a tad ridiculous. Welcome to the world of the mortals.

 

You're deluding yourself if you think this makes marauders any more "killable" than they were before. This change only affects those who have pocket healers glued to their posterior armor plates the entire match. If you don't have a healer pocket healing you, you'll die the same way after UR is used up just as you did before 2.5. So if you had trouble 1v1ing that marauder who came to solo your node before 2.5, nothing is going to change.

 

Oh, and in regards to the effect it has on those with pocket healers, all it does is make it where they get healed to 50% rather than full. So the healer will simply wait for UR to expire, the marauder will go into their 4 second camo (UR is 5 seconds. Get where I'm going here?) and come out with full hp. Can I get a Kanye West POW

[Ugolino]

Excuse me while I offer my sympathies to any sentinel and marauder players.

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

That is all. Enjoy your nerf, you've had this coming for a long, long time and deserve worse.

[ToMyMa]

A marauder crying that he's been nerfed... Cry cry a little more. You've been the most OP class for god knows how long. You deserves it. If you want to feel true gimped-ness, play a mando healer in ranked. You're not gimped or anything, the exact opposite, actually.

[Evolixe]

What is your main?

 

It needs a nerf.

 

Personally, I think Gimped by the Farce should be scrapped altogether and we should get heavy armor.

 

Trust me, that would be worst.

 

Anyways, the guy who said that there wasn't meant to be found a way around it is right.

This change was completely intended to nerf the crap out of the OP survivability.

[Technohic]

I feel for good marauders who actually would pressure healers; the problem is I will be glad to not see the bad ones flying all over the damned place with reckless abandon.

 

Would be ok with having tools to let the marauders survive going in the front line, along with all the other melee DPS who didn't have that luxury, but I would like it to not be as easy as before drawing in the tards who want to go just charging in willy-nilly.

[Jadescythe]

Let's think about in what you're saying here...

What's the marauder class objectives? They are the first line of offensive atacks. Tanks are in the back protecting healers, while the marauder have to jump in the middle of 5~6 people.

What it means? A lot of damage taken. A lot of stuns and double stun all the time, so this class spend not exaggerating 40% of the match stunned. They can't activate a defensive cooldown while stunned. So when they don't die after 8secs stunned, they have 5% HP left, pop Undying Rage and do as much damage as you can in this short time before you die.

Cammo + undying rage is the key for survivability through so many stuns. Remember, this class do not have a 4sec stun, the trade off is a huge burst aoe critical + defensive cooldowns, this is what people do not understand.

Now tells me, which other dps class spend 40% of the match stunned? Smash Juggernauts, but they have crap survivability that needs to be buffed. Stealthers choose their fights, if they are being stunned over and over they are playing the class wrong.

You say "welcome to the mortals world"... Ok, I won't jump there to press the enemy healer, I'll let him LOS your ranged atacks and heal everybody to full. I know I'll die in the first 6 seconds without cammo or undying rage, so I won't jump there. I'll let you "mortal" ranged deal with all the enemy ranged being healed free cast by their healer.

I think you play a sorcerer or a mercenary, pretty sure. Can you deal with the enemy healer + ranged classes all together? Go ahead, have fun going after the enemy healer.

 

Imagine a tank spending 50% of the health 15~20k HP to survive 5 seconds... Look how bad your is your argument.

You take way more than 5 seconds to take out 15k from a good tank.

 

Why you don't understand all of this? Because you do not play one.

Most damage taken in warzones, healers and marauders. Not even tanks, only if he is guarding that focused healer.

So if you're the most damage taken class, what do you need? Defenses.

What's the trade off of huge burst aoe critical? no 4sec stun and just a few seconds to do damage through so many stuns.

TL;DR: all marauders should play like mortal classes, so they won't jump in the middle of 6 people to press the enemy healer, they should let you ranged mortals be LOS'ed and see all the enemy be healed to full by that healer that you can't reach.

 

It sounds like you are wildly overextended and relying on invincibility to make it out alive. Pro tip: Don't leap past 5 people to attack someone way in the back with no support. And how is a marauder any different than a Jugg or Operative or Sin DPS that needs to attack the back line? Where is their UR to survive those stun locks?

Edited December 4, 2013 by Jadescythe

[Ottoattack]

I got admit I find it beyond funny when I hear "omg the UR nerfed our DCDs to the ground." Did you ever play other melee classes? None of them have similar DCD and all of them need to get in the middle of "5-6 enemies" or atk enemy healers. Why is the "marauder" so different than jugg, sin, ops or PT as dps that they need two huge damage mitigation DCDs on such low CD (cammo and UR) on top of all passive and active DCDs they have and strong control abilities? Mind you, after the nerf, marauders are still ahead of all other melee classes in survivability.

 

I have 4 words for you, get the f*** out.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Ottoattack

[JustinxDuff]

Played Mara/Sent since Day 1 early release. This is how UR should have been from the beginning.

[CellPerfect]

They could of increased the CD, removed the talents that buffed it in focus tree, hell remove the CD reduction from the set bonus... but having health drop after an ability ends is a terrible design. I hate it on endure pain and i hate it on GBTF now.

 

This this and this.

 

The changes they made were terrible. I agree that it was way over powered for Rage (smashers) which is really the only marauder tree that is complained about. The others were fine as is. The only thing needed was a quality of life change for those trees, which annihilation got as we just saw. If they would have just changed the things that I quoted here (I have said them before as well) that would be been a perfect fix for the ability. Obviously marauders would have needed a new set bonus but that would have been fine with me.

Edited December 4, 2013 by CellPerfect

[wollegol]

I can give you a way to feel that your mara is OP again. Roll a operative DPS and then roll back to your mara, you will feel like a god again, trust me. Nerf to mara should have happened years ago.