Scoundrel DPS Brainstorming

[Theagg]

Especially in places like Novare and Ancient Hypergate, I'm just sort of "forced" to guard the objective every time. And while we're a good class to guard, I like to have some action sometimes. But, because of all the AoE's and crap everywhere, any slight little damage we take pulls us out of stealth, it's very difficult to actually be useful in these situations.

 

Indeed and as I just suggested, even out of stealth we should be 'slippery' (hard to catch, hard to hold on to, elusive). Perhaps with a passive -50% accuracy debuff on others attempted attacks on us, whilst we move around out of combat giving us a chance to slip around and better choose when we engage. (and perhaps a lesser specced for accuracy debuff whilst in combat)

 

That 'slippery' tag should apply to us all the time and not just be about our stealth (since other classes who are not deemed slippery also have stealth)

 

I'm sure there are other ways to work in a more genuine slippery, shady mechanic to the class that go just beyond the stealth aspect but that's one idea

Edited October 29, 2013 by Theagg

[vennian]

Primarily Dirty Fighter here.

 

- Upper Hand runs out too quick. There is no real incentive for me not to burn it as fast as I got it. Please give it more uptime

- The buff from saving Upper Hand (2% damage increase) is not worth stacking it. You might want to reconsider this one.

- Uncleansable dots would be nice. If sorcs get them, we are gonna feel left out. This would of course partly obsolete "Nice Try"

- Some kind of survivability thing. I'm drawing blanks on this one.

 

Edit NB:

 

I like the idea of "Flash Powder". It's just that in PVP I use Flash Grenade more situationally for objective play than personal survival. This does not warrant taking the perk. I wonder how many do.

Edited October 29, 2013 by vennian

[DarthSpekulatius]

Both DPS specs should get upperhand's timer extended. The fact that sentinels will have 24 seconds of merciless and scoundrels with 10 second upperhand is absurd.

+1

also upping the limit to three like it is for Heals would be welcome

 

attach Surrender to Scurry and make the chance for the talent to trigger 100% feel free to attach a internal CD to it (if it doesn't already have one I always thought it had but that was probably the low chance playing tricks on me)

that would give DF scoundrels some serious Offheal Capabilities like kolto bomb is for all Mandos

 

otherwise I can't say I've missed anything in the DF spec *cough* except DOT tracking in 16m raids,

and while you're at it having Internal CDs of talents displayed wouldn't hurt either.

 

My suggestions are:

 

 

• Make Flechette Round a permanent effect (like the Jedi stances) and make it so, it automatically gets applied every time Shoot First/Backblast are used. This is a QoL change as well as an approach to fix energy problems in longer fights. I thought it's a good Tool to manage Energy because it's off the GCD (I like it the way it is)
   
  
• Remove Legshot from the Underdog talent as it is 100% pointless and add Sucker Punch instead.
   
  
• Remove the Surprise Comeback talent and add some kind of defensive talent instead (DEFINITELY some kind of flat damage reduction CD like Blackout for Inifltration Shadows NOT just an increase to Shield Probe). This is probably the most important change. I'd rather have something more slippery like CC immunity Pugnacity is a Offensive ability after all (I’m pissed off about what they did to Battle readiness for DD shadows)
   
  
• EITHER increase the critchance that the Element of Suprise talent gives OR make Sucker Punch profit from it as well.
   
  
• Change the Fight or Flight talent to some kind of rootbreak. Not as powerful as Hold the Line obviously, but some kind of rootbreak is needed. how about that talent removing slows and changing Roots to slows? (would be something new)
   
  
• Give us a better PvP-setbonus 5 Energy is - frankly - a joke. My suggestion for a useful 4-piece setbonus would be to decrease the cooldown of one of the new defensive skills, if something like I suggested above gets added.
  just remove all the +5energy bonuses I don't care with what might as well be
  "you can now kick the Huttball", if you want something usefull...
  "you can throw the Huttball around corners, give it a Spin!" (range is 10m less if you do so) that could also work for Grenades now that I think about it for the PVP Sets,
  "you Giggle whenever you are granted an Upper hand not just the first" PVE-DD and
  "removes the *BEEP* sound whenever you activate Slow release Medipac" PVE-Heal in point of fact I would not just love those but they would be more useful (well more being useful then 2 energy in the high tier regen isn't particularly hard but I would really like them)
  
• Remove the cover requirement from Sabotage Charge, since cover will become pretty much useless for scoundrels anyways. don't, instead keep the cover bonuses for scoundrels... I know this is a change aimed at PVP Heals that won't cause problems in PVE but wouldn't it be better to fix your broken matchmaking?
  fix the other Healclasses and repair your broken resolve system (in regards to chain roots by being leaped by multiple People that didn't seem to cause any resolve at all last time I played Huttball against 4-6 leapers with my Sage)
  

[svdiachkov]

I seriously doubt that such a change will be made. The biggest mistake BioWare do stealth permanent. Hence all the problems.

My opinion, the stealth classes should be recycled.

[Raansu]

Scrapper:

 

Flechette round needs to go back to how it was at launch. We need that increased armor penetration. BW panicked and over nerfed an ability that only seemed OP because at the time pvp had click relics, adrenals, and 50's in pvp gear fighting lowbies without expertise. When 50's got their own bracket on top of the relic and adrenal nerfs, the nerf to flechette round became all the more apparent and showed the class wasn't as strong as BW wanted to believe. Now, two years later, our burst is so inconsistent and if we don't get a good opener we are screwed. At least assassins get recklessness which at least gives them consistent burst with discharge. The least you can do is buff our armor penetration back to the way it used to be.

 

Give us a proc similar to assassins duplicity that lets us use shoot first out of stealth. I'd prefer if we could always use it out of stealth but I think a proc is a reasonable middle ground. I also feel that this proc should increase the damage of shoot first. While maul without duplicity costs a substantial amount of force, this ability can be used no matter what and it hits harder than both shoot first and backblast and its getting buffed. Topple that with assassins having better survivability its almost an insult that neither shoot first or backblast can hit as hard as maul.

 

Give us a finisher, or at least a talent that lets us do more damage at 30% hp. Maybe tie it to flechette round.

 

In general scrapper is a burst spec with sub par/inconsistent burst and even worse survivability...A spec with low survivability should have high burst. The spec needs to be changed to have strong consistent burst to make up for how squishy it is. Which is why I don't ask for increased survivability because I feel we should be squishy.

 

Dirty fighting:

 

Honestly I feel the damage is fine on this spec. Some QoL changes to cull and UH would be nice but overall this spec is underrated by many as it hits pretty hard imo. The real issue with this spec is unlike scrapper where you need to rely on your opener to survive this spec spends most of its time out of stealth and doesn't have a burst opener. It's set up to cull is fairly long and since you spend pretty much all your time out of stealth I feel that the class needs survivability.

 

DF has some OK perks like the threat drop breaking roots which is nice, but I feel it needs more than that. Defense screen and dodge are both kind of a joke right now, so I feel that either defense screen should get buffed or that the talent that reduces the CD of dodge in sawbones be moved to dirty fighting(because lets face it, the heal spec is broke and don't need any talents like that). Also, sneak should be allowed to be used out of stealth and have a 25% damage reduction. I know scrappers want this but I personally feel that it would be better for DF, especially if BW fixes scrappers burst. I am of the same opinion of assassins. I don't think deceptions should have that talent for blackout. That really should be moved to madness, but that's another discussion.

 

I seriously doubt that such a change will be made. The biggest mistake BioWare do stealth permanent. Hence all the problems.

My opinion, the stealth classes should be recycled.

 

There is no mistake. Stealthing is a play style that many enjoy. The only people who do not like stealthers are those who refuse to learn how to counter them. Multiple classes have ways to deal with. Stealth scan pops them out, aoe's pop them out, taunts prevent them from using sap, snipers can spot them from a mile away. You have tools to deal with them. Learn how to utilize those tools.

 

You take away stealth and you take away an entire playstyle and I guarantee if that were to ever happen, I and many others will leave this game permanently.

[Morde_]

I posted this in the Operative version:

 

The two main problems with Concealment are lack of sustained damage (mostly from energy management issues) and lack of survivability. Lethality damage is moderately good (some say it's "fluff", but a triple cull on anyone will be insane damage), but again the spec is crippled by virtually no survivability.

 

In this thread already are dozens of ideas to improve both aspects. Ones that I am personally in favour of (that I feel balance us but don't make us overpowered):

 

For Damage:

• Granting the ability to use Hidden Strike while Sneak is active (but only knockdown when from stealth).
  
• Reducing the cost of Explosive Probe for Concealment so that there is some more sustained damage (currently it costs too much and can quickly leave an Operative out of energy). This can also be acquired by reworking energy management or adding more useful talents that address energy regeneration.
  
• Adding a strong healing debuff to Acid Blade or Laceration. This will add utility to Concealment for lowering the global TTK (which is currently too high imo) and intrinsically buffing Concealment damage against healers without people screaming nerfs about huge Concealment numbers (lol).
  
• Making Acid Blade a passive (permanent) effect.
  
• Hidden Strike from stealth should be 100% crit chance. There is nothing more unsatisfying in this game than being a "slippery" snake and working your way around to prepare burst on a target in the back only to open up on them with a lackluster 4k hit.
  
• Make Tactical Advantages last longer for DPS. Think of how long Marauder stacks last for. Think of how long DPS tactical advantages last for.
  
• Granting CC immunity for a few seconds after exiting stealth. (Think of Unstoppable in the Vengeance tree)
  

 

For Survivability (both Lethality and Concealment):

• Move the heal on Shield Probe collapse from the Medicine tree to the Concealment tree, and buff the amount that it heals (it's way too weak right now).
  
• Reduce the cost of Exfiltrate or have some sort of proc to make it cheap/free. (DPS only, not for healers)
  
• Merge Shadow Operative Elite and Quickening so that both Lethality and Concealment can acquire the benefits of both. Don't allow the Medicine tree to acquire them, though.
  
• ********** Change the Cloaking Screen mechanic to be "stronger", i.e. more like the Marauder vanish. Perhaps change Sneak/Cloaking Screen so that AoE damage/Stealth Scans do not bring us out of stealth while either is active. This should only be for DPS specs, as it would be overpowered to give this to healers as well. This is a big one. Our biggest defensive cooldown as concealment should NOT be as fragile as it currently is. **********
  
• Implementation of an AoE damage reduction talent so that we're not torn to shreds by 3 smashers. Put this HIGH in a DPS tree so that healers cannot obtain (Operative healer with AoE damage reduction would be too strong).
  

 

Also, PLEASE ADDRESS OUR SET BONUSES. THE PVE SET BONUSES PUT THE PVP ONES TO SHAME.

 

TL;DR: There's lots that can be done (and needs to be done) for Operative DPS. Give us something useful for 2.5 please.

[j-cart]

Disclaimer: This was written originally for Opeatives. I have changed names and terminology around to fit for the Scoundrel. Understand that this perspective is taken mainly from a PvP standpoint. I have played all of the SM content on my Scoundrel and have completed some of the older HM/attempted NiM content as well. However I do not believe I have enough knowledge to support these claims for high end PvE, though I do believe everyone will enjoy these changes. Please enjoy the read (crl+f THX-1138 for skill changes), it was extremely fun to write this out

 

Original post in the Operative thread:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6896810&postcount=24

 

 

As a Scoundrel I can understand the problems with trying to change this class. There are two facts that are absolutely true:

 

1. Sawbones Scoundrels have the ability to maintain a consistent high amount of healing while under pressure.

2. Dirty Fighting has the ability to post the highest amount of total damage (as long as a cleanse is never used) and has the potential to deal out a substantial amount of burst when the stars align (the glorious three wounding shots).

 

This is why Scoundrels are a top class; we are capable of these two facts without having to take a set bonus. Based on gear and stat optimization, we have a potential that is unmatched by others. Then there is our Scrapper middle tree and it is clueless on what it is trying to be.

 

I am actually content with the current damage output from the Scrapper class. The Scoundrel is a multi-function class, we should not be better than others in DPS (especially pure DPS classes ie, Sentinals and Gunslingers) but we should have better utilities. For Scrappers that means better single target control and this how I think the class was envisioned to excel at. For those that remember from the glorious launch month, Scrapper had a 3 second knockdown from Shoot First and the Resolve bar functioned in a much different way that allowed for an Scoundrel to practically “stunlock” an opponent (this has been edited, originally posted 5 without checking). Damage output was never very high (until the relic stacking became known), but their ability to lock a character out of a fight was the reason Scoundrels were immediately considered overpowered.

 

We do know that Bioware is heavily involved with the lore of Star Wars, class designs and the KotOR series is proof of this. What this means to me is that an Scoundrel is not a capable melee fighter when compared to a Sith/Jedi. Lore wise, Scoundrels they rely on their cunning (wonder why dexterity/agility was changed to that?) to get them out of dire situations (“We're all fine here now, thank you. How are you?” ring a bell for Scoundrels?).

 

 

What does this have to do with class changes? SWTOR provides two stealth classes, the Infiltration Shadow and the Scrapper Scoundrel. The Shadow advance class is a Jedi that stills know how to fight from the extensive training in their saber art and force powers. This is why I can accept that the Shadow class is capable of maintaining their DPS out of stealth because they are capable melee fighters, they are the “rogue” of this game. The Scoundrel on the other is just a regular human (or w/e race, but one with no force sensitivity), however they have proven their worth from extensive smuggling, quick wits and keen ability to always have an escape plan.

 

So how do we increase the viability of the Scoundrel Scrapper but not also break any lore character standards that Bioware may have? The concern is that right now our damage output from stealth and out of stealth is low compared to others. In addition with the changes to how critical currently works, it really downplays our ability to maintain any threating damage on a single target and thus we are forced into playing this double Shoot First game to maintain any sort of single target damage.

 

So why am I okay with this poor damage assessment? Because Scoundrels must be careful in their approach, not play this brute out of stealth in your face type class like the Infiltration Shadow. To me, utilities that cause debuffs and an increase to snares would be the answer. A class that allows us to be a mosquito, a minor nuisance at first, but if not properly treated it will be too late to realize that the itch has become an irreversible pain.

 

Currently the changes that are being suggested are to bring Scrapper Scoundrels into this standardization of the “rogue” dps, big upfront damage to make up for the lack of sustained out of stealth DPS. That means there must be a way to increase confirmed critical chances and allow for users to be threaten by large numbers. I believe that the Infiltration Shadow class already fills this role and for a Scoundrel to become this all powerful melee warrior is not consistent to what it means to be a smuggler in Star Wars.

 

The changes mention from here on will change the way a Scrapper Scoundrel is currently played, but I believe that this will change the dynamic of why people should play this class.

 

THX-1138

 

Skill revamp for Scrapper Scoundrels:

 

-Replace the skill “Surprise Comeback” with Relaxant Dart. When specced into Relaxant Dart, it will replace the Scoundrel’s Tranquilizer with a stinger that applies the Relaxant debuff. The skill description will be as follows:

 

When Relaxant matures (15/10/5 seconds) the target is struck with Myoplexaril causing 50% slow and 10% reduced armor rating for 10 seconds. 45 second cool down, requires stealth and can be used when opponent is in combat. Relaxant can be cleansed, however once Myoplexaril has settled in it cannot be cleansed and is not considered a poison.

 

 

-Flechette Round will also get the following changes:

 

When using Shoot First or Back Blast on an opponent with Myoplexaril, target will receive 50% reduced armor rating for the next 15 seconds. 25% reduced armor rating if no Myoplexaril is on the target.

 

 

-Slippery Devil will get the following changes:

 

Upon a successful dodge during Dodge, Disappearing Act as a [25/50/100]% chance to finish the cooldown on Disappearing Act.

 

 

-Rolling Punches will be changed to “The Odds” and receive the following changes:

 

Back Blast and Shoot First have a [50/100]% chance to trigger The Odds. XS Freighter Flyby cannot be interrupted when The Odds has been triggered.

 

 

-Stopping Power:

 

Tendon Blast has a [50/100]% chance to immobilize target for [2/4] seconds

 

 

So why these changes?

 

A Scrapper Scoundrel is a cunning artist and will utilize all tools (including others!) to support them in combat. The idea behind the Relaxant Dart is to allow a Scoundrel an assisting tool without yet revealing their position so suddenly. In the PvP aspect, the Relaxant Dart will force healers to seek out the Relaxant debuff and cleanse it in time before it settles in and becomes Myoplexaril. The point of the Myoplexaril is to promote this idea that the Scoundrel has now marked their target. The slow is there to start the slow process of confusing the opponent in what should be done next to defend themselves from certain death. Relaxant Dart places the Scoundrel in combat but does not remove them from stealth.

 

The application of Armor Reduction is to allow for teammates to apply their support in the dispatching the target. Currently armor penetration is a single target ability designed to allow Scoundrel to increase their damage to an opponent (I believe that is the difference, Armor Pen= user buff and Armor Reduction= target debuff. Please tell me if I am wrong about this). Going for the single 50% reduction to armor rating really opens up the usefulness of an Scoundrel as they are now a teamplayer rather than a lone wolf. The point of the Myoplexaril plus Flechette Round is to really drive home the idea that the opponent is being singled out from the rest of the group. The fastest way to break a cohesive unit is to make them think that they are no longer working together. The combination of the two still makes for achieving the 50% reduction to armor rating a skilled task that can be easily disrupted if not planned properly.

 

Slippery Devil now becomes a three skill point skill and basically is a Scoundrel’s way of getting back into the stealth game and doubles as their “defensive” ability. Having a successful dodge will proc the reset on Disappearing Act, is a plays on the elusiveness that Scoundrels are known for. The changes to Rolling Punches is to allow an Scoundrels to call in air support back up without having to worry about being interrupted. This allows them to maintain damage through support and still apply the out of stealth damage as need be without it forced to be a “melee” ability. The change to Stopping Power is to play on this idea that Scrapper Scoundrels are trying to confuse the target on when to use their stun breaker and really cement the idea that Scoundrels never fight fair in their combat and understand that confusing a powerful opponent will make them weaker.

 

While I know these changes seem different from the norm, but I do believe it will provide practical applications as a tool to assist a team in both PvP and PvE. In a game with no assisting type bard class, the Scrapper will fill that role while maintaining their ability at being a stealth class. These changes also will synergize with the current set bonuses, so I believe this tree change could really work within this game and allow them to become tools to assist in combat and counter the idea that all stealth classes must be rogues.

Edited October 30, 2013 by j-cart

[Theagg]

I posted this in the Operative version

The two main problems with Concealment are lack of sustained damage (mostly from energy management issues) and lack of survivability. Lethality damage is moderately good (some say it's "fluff", but a triple cull on anyone will be insane damage), but again the spec is crippled by virtually no survivability.

 

:

 

I think it needs to be made clear that energy management is not one of the main problems when it comes to PvP for Scoundrels (Scrappers esp), (PvE perhaps being a different beast), lest Bioware mainly just address this perceived issue and still leave us wanting in the PvP community.

[ktkenshinx]

Honestly, our damage isn't in that bad of a place right now. I'm consistently top 2-3 DPS in a WZ with a ton of 1v1 power. We have some small issues but I would hate for BW to overbuff the class (unlikely for Ops, I know) just because of some perception that we are largely unplayable. We are pretty close, just not quite there.

 

For damage, there are a few changes I would want to see. All are quite small and all would give us all the damage boost we realistically need:

• Underdog talent: Remove Tendon Blast. Add Sucker Punch.
  
• Backblast: Reduce CD to 8 seconds.
  
• Flechette Round: Increase duration to 8 seconds. Increase damage proportionately.
  

 

For survivability, I would just move Scramble (from Sawbones) over to Scrapper in place of Surprise Comeback. Evasion is an incredibly strong defensive CD on its own. Maybe add some Shield Probe absorption on top of it.

 

Overall, I just wouldn't want to see BW do something too radical to the class that could backfire by being too broken or backfire by being novel but weak.

[Cryowolf]

The changes mention from here on will change the way a Scrapper Scoundrel is currently played, but I believe that this will change the dynamic of why people should play this class.

 

Great suggestions! I really like the Relaxant Dart, Myoplexaril and Flechette Round combination.

 

We really need an armor or heal reduction skill to make us wanted in a group.

 

Good job

[Theagg]

Great suggestions! I really like the Relaxant Dart, Myoplexaril and Flechette Round combination.

 

We really need an armor or heal reduction skill to make us wanted in a group.

 

Good job

 

Of the two I would much prefer we gain abilities to apply healing debuffs

[j-cart]

Great suggestions! I really like the Relaxant Dart, Myoplexaril and Flechette Round combination.

 

We really need an armor or heal reduction skill to make us wanted in a group.

 

Good job

 

 

Thanks for the read!

 

The idea was to make this class a control and support stealth class, rather than this "burst" DPS class that we are all use to playing. I kind of incorporated the class style to really give reasons why it would work out in our favor. I am sure the number effects will change, but I feel that Scoundrels have to rely on their tools and wits. That is how they established themselves in the first place right?

 

I think I did a pretty decent job in making them illusive and slippery, but still fragile in full out combat.

 

 

Of the two I would much prefer we gain abilities to apply healing debuffs

 

I thought about which kind of debuff that we "should" have and it came down to me reasoning that a Scoundrel doesn't know how to reduce a person's ability to maintain life, but they do know who to break a person down physically and mentally. Also it was picked for Armor Reduction so that this class would work in PvE content

Edited October 29, 2013 by j-cart

[Racter]

Scoundrel DPS do not need a heal debuff. Not even remotely relevant on the laundry list of **** these specs need. Marauder damage and survivability is so far and away better they would be taken over us even if we had the only heal debuff in the game and it was 50% or more.

[Vorna]

It is good to see you, BioWare, actually attempt to open communication with us. But this should have been done over a year ago, and at this point you have fully exhausted our goodwill.

 

I shall categorize my suggestions by what needs to be done immediately to improve the quality of life for the specs, and then go into more fanciful ideas about fixing our problems.

 

I say fanciful, because you ignored all our recommendations in beta, opting instead to launch the class with the most broken spec in game (lethality/dirty fighting) and the functioning but under-developed burst spec that allowed people to stack adrenals and buffs to perform stunlock kills as 50s on players sub-50. Then you nerfed that into the ground, and never went back to look at the carnage you inflicted on it. We also were the worst of the healers at launch just to add to the misery of our class.

 

So when I say fanciful, I mean in your terms for our class, BioWare. Other sane people would consider them the normal sort of buffs and changes to make us a fully featured class (which we currently are not).

 

Without further ado~

 

*~-------~*

 

Immediate Changes to Improve our lives:

 

---

 

Non-spec:

 

DO NOT TAKE AWAY CROUCH AND HARD COVER BENEFITS in 2.5

 

I cannot stress this enough. Not only are you taking a core component of what the class' identity is, you are severely nerfing Lethality/Dirty Fighting and making the one job Concealment/Scrapper were good at in huttball (defense) impossible. Before all else, this nerf cannot go into effect.

 

And I want to expand upon the Huttball point a little. You have teased a new huttball warzone, this implies we will now be dealing with two warzones in the mix that we are extremely poor at. And if this nerf goes into effect, will make us nearly useless unless we're healing. We depend on crouch to not allow people to leap or pull us, this is most important on defense. We have no Knockback, no Pull, and no Leap. This means we have no way to stop leapers from using us as a target to leap to unless we're stealthed if you take away crouch benefits. We can't knock them back off. We can't jump in the pit and pull them with us. We can't leap to the catwalks from the pit. This makes us COMPLETELY USELESS AND A LIABILITY in Huttball defense.

 

If ONLY for this reason, this is the reason this insult of a nerf cannot go live.

 

 

---

 

Concealment/Scrapper:

- Revert Backstab/Backblast to an 8 second CD.

- Remove the positional requirement on Hidden Strike/Shoot First (QOL change to make our lives less annoying).

 

-Create or add on to an existing talent: When stealth is broken without using Hidden Strike/Shoot First a 10 second effect allowing the use of Hidden Strike/Shoot First out of Stealth is granted (QOL change so we aren't so hurt by having stealth broken in a chaotic melee with AOEs flying everywhere).

 

-Combine Inclement Conditioning/Brawler's Grit and Scouting/Shifty-eyed into a single talent.

-Scrap Revitilizers/Surprise Comeback and rework it.

Suggestions:

• Reduce damage taken by 15% for duration of alacrity buff.
  
• Grants a stack of 3 "bladeturns"- Blocks the damage of the next three damaging attacks on the player.
  
• Grants a stack of reactive heals- heals the player when they are attacked for the number of stacked buffs.
  
• Grants immunity to pulls and knockbacks for the duration of the alacrity buff.
  
• A 50% resist for (6-10?) seconds to force and tech effects (Sins/Shadows have a 10 second 50% dodge with Deflection and a 100% force/tech resist for 3 seconds- this would put us on generally the same level, but with the effects inversed).

-Ghost/Fight or Flight needs a reworking. There are many fine suggestions in this thread already.

 

 

---

 

Lethality/Dirty Fighting:

-Toxic Regulators/Concussion now blocks your periodic effects from from breaking sleep effects FROM ALL PLAYERS (A MAJOR QOL change I believe all dot specs should have, we currently are substantially less group friendly because of this).

-Combine Augmented Shields/Hotwired Defenses and Escape Plan/Smuggled Defenses into a single talent.

 

-Buff Counterstrike/Dirty Trickster (this is in addition to it's current function).

Suggestions:

• Reduces damage taken by 50% for 6 seconds (I've long wanted pvp detaunts in this game).
  
• Heals the player for 20% of their maximum HP.
  
• Grants immunity to all movement impairing effects for 8 seconds.
  
• Grants a stack of 3 "bladeturns"- Blocks the damage of the next three damaging attacks on the player.
  
• A 50% resist for (6-10?) seconds to force and tech effects (Sins/Shadows have a 10 second 50% dodge with Deflection and a 100% force/tech resist for 3 seconds- this would put us on generally the same level, but with the effects inverted).

 

 

*~-------~*

 

"Fanciful" changes to make us an interesting and engaging fully featured class:

 

---

 

Non-spec:

 

-Our set bonuses suck. They really really suck.

 

Like for realz.

 

Fix them.

 

-Increase the amount of time the Tactical Advantage/Upperhand buff is active.

QOL change that would make our lives as dps much better.

 

-Allow every spec to spec into a way to improve Countermeasures/Surrender for pvp.

Though Lethality/Dirty Fighting has a lackluster talent to add to this ability, I'd like to see the ability transformed into something really useful in pvp. Personally, I would make detaunts function like pvp detaunts in WAR. I have always been a bit annoyed and confused as to why detaunts weren't migrated with guard and taunt. But failing that, let's have something interesting to spec into for each tree for this ability (including healing). I earlier detailed some changes I'd like to see added to Counterstrike/Dirty Trickster, to give an idea of things you can do with it. I'm not going to give specific suggestions here, because the sky's the limit. Have some fun, make this skill worthwhile in pvp~

 

 

---

 

Concealment/Scrapper:

 

-Give us a new ability- A 20m ground-targeted teleport on a 45s cooldown.

I have long wanted a teleport for the class, due to our awfulness at huttball (and I played when practically ALL that popped was huttball). I was actually quite disturbed when 2.0 came around that sins/shadows got a teleport (and my other main is a sin...). Now their teleport wasn't exactly what I was wanting, and I've come to appreciate the roll for certain benefits- BUT the roll is currently a bit of a liability in combat.

 

So, to fix the issue with Concealment/Scrapper missing a third clickable ability talent, and to deal with some of the issues that still plague the class, I suggest this ability. Used like any ground-targeted ability, it teleports the player to the location they click. 20m so that it can be effective in huttball in getting up on the catwalks again (one would drop the huttball if holding it while using). This ability would be a boon both defensively and offensively, and add to the weak utility of the Concealment/Scrapper spec.

 

-Waylay/Sawed Off is unimpressive.

A 4% damage increase to Backstab/Backblast is just... sad. I really have no suggestions for this other than... do something to improve it.

-Give us 30% AOE damage reduction.

We're one of the most strict mdps and we don't have this... it's just embarrassing Bioware. What have you been thinking?

-I add my voice to the chorus of people that want this spec to be more debuff based.

My favorite stealthers have been debuff based. A healing debuff would be lovely (incoming or outgoing). I'd also like to see the Acid Blade/Flechette Round debuff reverted to it's original armor debuff value. Other possible debuffs include -accuracy (considering the "Scrapper" doesn't have a sand in the eyes ability, this needs to be rectified!), -power, -crit, -main stat... etc. There's a lot that can be done here, and I find debuffing stealthers more engaging to play than burst... and they're generally tolerated better by other players.

 

 

---

 

Lethality/Dirty Fighting:

 

-Allow a way for us to gain Tactical Advantage/Upperhand from Overload Shot/Quickshot.

This is not something new. We've been asking for this since beta. We've been asking for this SINCE the Tactical Advantage/Upperhand mechanic went live in beta. Perhaps now, over two years later, you might actually take this request seriously.

 

-Give us a talent that increases the range of Shiv/Blaster Whip to 10m.

Failing that you don't allow us to gain TA/UH off of Overload/Quickshot, this is another option. For Shiv you could use the knife toss animation used for the snare. For Blaster Whip you can either create a new animation with a tossed blaster, or just value functionality over style and use a normal shot animation/scattergun animation.

 

-Give us a talent that increases all 10m attacks by 5 (to 15m total) or 10m (to 20m total).

Though there is a bonus to having them stop at 10m (between 5 and 10m being the sweet spot for strict melee classes with leap), I've always wanted to see the class as a sort of mobile midrange rdps, like the 'Quick Shootin'' Squig Herder (a masterfully designed class that BioWare could learn a lot from). I feel this would give the class some uniqueness, and add to our tactics.

-Give us a talent that gives full portable cover benefits.

I have been staunchly against the removal of portable cover since beta. I already stated that the crouch/hard cover nerfs CANNOT go live, and established we need them. This is to give Lethality/Dirty Fighting a small edge against ranged. Since I see the spec as a midranged mobile rdps, I'd like to see it get a little bit extra in that category. Currently crouch is great against mdps, but not useful against rdps... this would help us against rdps, particularly when they knock us away to unload on us, we could enter portable cover and get some defense against their attacks. Not much, but it would be something.

 

 

-----

Seeing as I play both a Scoundrel and Operative on a daily basis, I feel uncomfortable posting this in just one of the threads, so I shall post it in both. Undoubtedly Musco and the devs are reading both, so this is not my indictment that one thread might be favored over the other, but just my feeling that I don't want to play favorites with a class I play both sides of.

[Raansu]

For those that remember from the glorious launch month, Scrapper had a 5 second knockdown from Shoot First.

 

KO was 3 seconds, not 5.

[Thorriin]

My two cents:

 

The idea of AB/FR being a passive just seems too overpowered to me.

 

Making shoot first usable at 30% of the targets health would be a nice change, but they should bring back Headshot and turn that into an execute. That way the execute isn't yellow damage, so it is in line with all of the others. If Headshot was yellow damage before they removed it, change it to white damage (Never really used the skill so just going off my brain).

 

The main change I would like to see would be the set bonuses. 5 total energy doesn't cut it, and it isn't even 5 energy in the top regen bracket. Could make the 4 set bonus be the old two set bonus, 15% crit chance on Back Blast, but they need to address this issue

[j-cart]

KO was 3 seconds, not 5.

 

 

A mistake indeed! Thanks for the catch, though I am sure it felt like 5 seconds to everyone on the receiving end of it

[Leinadirak]

I honestly think that if you are going to "nerf" the cover ability that you need to remove the cover requirement for sabotage charge.

 

That would allow the scrapper to be "slippery" as the devs intend it to be. As of now, nothing says "i'm not smoothe and slippery" quite like stopping in the middle of a fight to kneel, throw 1 charge out there and then stand up again.

[Leinadirak]

My two cents:

 

The idea of AB/FR being a passive just seems too overpowered to me.

 

Making shoot first usable at 30% of the targets health would be a nice change, but they should bring back Headshot and turn that into an execute. That way the execute isn't yellow damage, so it is in line with all of the others. If Headshot was yellow damage before they removed it, change it to white damage (Never really used the skill so just going off my brain).

 

The main change I would like to see would be the set bonuses. 5 total energy doesn't cut it, and it isn't even 5 energy in the top regen bracket. Could make the 4 set bonus be the old two set bonus, 15% crit chance on Back Blast, but they need to address this issue

 

 

I don't think that we need a closer, but allowing shoot first usable again at 30% health would be a huge buff, maybe even more than the devs want at this point.

 

The set bonuses are also a huge deal, right now the enforcer bonus does absolutely nothing for anyone, smuggle is not an effective skill in pvp anyways, its more of a gimmick than anything else.

[DCnet]

Although survivability is what I feel should be priority, I thought of a couple things that I would like to share:

 

Shoot first grants 3 seconds of cc immunity.

 

Targets below 30% take increased damage from backblast by 10%.

 

Just my 2cents.

[Falver]

Also, I forgot to say, for PVE, Scrapper needs an energy management mechanic that does NOT rely on rolling punches' 70% chance of occurring. It's just bad design and counterintuitive to have RNG be a deciding factor in endgame raiding.

[atschai]

Introduce some kind of mechanic to reset the cooldown on disappearing act, eg. recuperate resets 10 sec off the cd every second or for every second the scoundrel is not engaged in combat, it shaves 10 sec off the CD, or every back blast removes 10 sec off the CD.

Make scamper free if a consumable upper hand is available.

Introduce a proc for a free sabotage charge or an instant freighter flyby.

[QuiveringPotato]

I don't think that we need a closer, but allowing shoot first usable again at 30% health would be a huge buff, maybe even more than the devs want at this point.

 

The set bonuses are also a huge deal, right now the enforcer bonus does absolutely nothing for anyone, smuggle is not an effective skill in pvp anyways, its more of a gimmick than anything else.

 

I don't think having SF as an execute ability would be THAT huge of a buff. I mean, on my guardian DPS, my dispatch crits for 6-7k pretty regularly, and that's on a shorter cooldown. *shrug*

 

Although, I do agree with the set bonuses, they are pretty laughable. I'm not even using the XS one at the moment, I went for the 2pc enforcer and the 2pc medic, just cause I wanted a -tiny- bit more survivability.

[Haystak]

Why we brainstorming again....didnt we have like 50 pages or so of this already during the Class Rep thread?

 

Pull from that. nothing has changed. Im begining to feel like this is a whole carrot on a stick routine. Ask us what we think as if your going to make changes...make no changes, rinse repeat.

Edited October 30, 2013 by Haystak

[Raansu]

Why we brainstorming again....didnt we have like 50 pages or so of this already during the Class Rep thread?

 

Pull from that. nothing has changed. Im begining to feel like this is a whole carrot on a stick routine. Ask us what we think as if your going to make changes...make no changes, rinse repeat.

 

Both the class rep threads and the 2.5 class specific change threads have all kinds of input in them. So yes, I agree these threads were dumb. They could of simply just directly replied to our feedback in the other threads but that would require communicating with us which is something they don't do. They only want the illusion of communication.