I am going to bump this thread, I doubt it will do anything unless we manage to get the ear of a Dev or CM, but this issue is highly distressing. I have recently returned to doing some story content after not really touching it for a year, and run into this rather... problematic issue. Although BenKatarn has described the issue quite well, and the history of it, I feel I must add some more definite specifics and theories. --- Previous to this issue arising (all the way back to beta), when conversations were "fading out" you could hit the escape button (or as I know I did, pound on it repeatedly), and the conversation/cinema would abort, most of the time AFTER the fade out completed. IE- the conversation starts fading out->you hit escape->fade out completes->conversation/quest does not complete->you can start conversation over again Now (as our OP states, after 2.3.3a), the game locks out your esc key/keyboard during the fade out. And this issue is still present on the current PTS build for 2.6. IE- the conversation starts fading out->you hit escape->escape does nothing->conversation/quest completes So something, somewhere along the line changed. Perhaps how the game considers key presses during the fade outs, instead of considering the key press before conversation/quest completion, it considers it AFTER. Perhaps the fade out itself is now locking out key presses. Perhaps something else. --- I would also like to note here, something that probably isn't connected, but worth noting as it might be. I haven't tested it for a very long time, but I remember a peculiarity in the native in game screenshot function. Once upon a time (and possibly now as well), the game refused to take screenshots during cinemas, you had to use an outside application to do so, except in one specific case- in cinemas that continued AFTER a fade out. Yes, if the cinema faded out to a different scene, you could take screenshots of the rest of the cinema after the initial fade out. I never understood why, but in most instances, I could. I'm not certain it has anything to do with this esc key issue, but it's yet another peculiarity associated with fade outs. --- So, with all of that said, I sincerely hope the Devs get alerted to this issue or are working to fix it. It has more far reaching effects than just people who want to record every option, because the fade outs often begin before the final line of dialogue in the conversation is actually completed by the npc/pc, locking people out of being able to escape from choices they did not wish to choose, but wished to see the dialogue associated with them or just didn't like the dialogue their character spit out (I know I personally have massive hate for the dialogue wheel summaries for this reason). This is especially egregious when said line is one or two words, which happens QUITE OFTEN (It is very hard to escape a conversation when the last line is "We do." and the fade out begins during "do"). So please BioWare, revert this change or fix the bug that's causing it. Or put in an optional toggle that activates a confirmation box at the end of quests asking us if we want to finish the quest or revert back to the start of the last conversation. It's hard enough to navigate the minefield of not romancing or romancing companions, don't make it any harder.

It is good to see you, BioWare, actually attempt to open communication with us. But this should have been done over a year ago, and at this point you have fully exhausted our goodwill. I shall categorize my suggestions by what needs to be done immediately to improve the quality of life for the specs, and then go into more fanciful ideas about fixing our problems. I say fanciful, because you ignored all our recommendations in beta, opting instead to launch the class with the most broken spec in game (lethality/dirty fighting) and the functioning but under-developed burst spec that allowed people to stack adrenals and buffs to perform stunlock kills as 50s on players sub-50. Then you nerfed that into the ground, and never went back to look at the carnage you inflicted on it. We also were the worst of the healers at launch just to add to the misery of our class. So when I say fanciful, I mean in your terms for our class, BioWare. Other sane people would consider them the normal sort of buffs and changes to make us a fully featured class (which we currently are not). Without further ado~ *~-------~* Immediate Changes to Improve our lives: --- Non-spec: DO NOT TAKE AWAY CROUCH AND HARD COVER BENEFITS in 2.5 I cannot stress this enough. Not only are you taking a core component of what the class' identity is, you are severely nerfing Lethality/Dirty Fighting and making the one job Concealment/Scrapper were good at in huttball (defense) impossible. Before all else, this nerf cannot go into effect. And I want to expand upon the Huttball point a little. You have teased a new huttball warzone, this implies we will now be dealing with two warzones in the mix that we are extremely poor at. And if this nerf goes into effect, will make us nearly useless unless we're healing. We depend on crouch to not allow people to leap or pull us, this is most important on defense. We have no Knockback, no Pull, and no Leap. This means we have no way to stop leapers from using us as a target to leap to unless we're stealthed if you take away crouch benefits. We can't knock them back off. We can't jump in the pit and pull them with us. We can't leap to the catwalks from the pit. This makes us COMPLETELY USELESS AND A LIABILITY in Huttball defense. If ONLY for this reason, this is the reason this insult of a nerf cannot go live. --- Concealment/Scrapper: - Revert Backstab/Backblast to an 8 second CD. - Remove the positional requirement on Hidden Strike/Shoot First (QOL change to make our lives less annoying). -Create or add on to an existing talent: When stealth is broken without using Hidden Strike/Shoot First a 10 second effect allowing the use of Hidden Strike/Shoot First out of Stealth is granted (QOL change so we aren't so hurt by having stealth broken in a chaotic melee with AOEs flying everywhere). -Combine Inclement Conditioning/Brawler's Grit and Scouting/Shifty-eyed into a single talent. -Scrap Revitilizers/Surprise Comeback and rework it. Suggestions: Reduce damage taken by 15% for duration of alacrity buff. Grants a stack of 3 "bladeturns"- Blocks the damage of the next three damaging attacks on the player. Grants a stack of reactive heals- heals the player when they are attacked for the number of stacked buffs. Grants immunity to pulls and knockbacks for the duration of the alacrity buff. A 50% resist for (6-10?) seconds to force and tech effects (Sins/Shadows have a 10 second 50% dodge with Deflection and a 100% force/tech resist for 3 seconds- this would put us on generally the same level, but with the effects inversed). -Ghost/Fight or Flight needs a reworking. There are many fine suggestions in this thread already. --- Lethality/Dirty Fighting: -Toxic Regulators/Concussion now blocks your periodic effects from from breaking sleep effects FROM ALL PLAYERS (A MAJOR QOL change I believe all dot specs should have, we currently are substantially less group friendly because of this). -Combine Augmented Shields/Hotwired Defenses and Escape Plan/Smuggled Defenses into a single talent. -Buff Counterstrike/Dirty Trickster (this is in addition to it's current function). Suggestions: Reduces damage taken by 50% for 6 seconds (I've long wanted pvp detaunts in this game). Heals the player for 20% of their maximum HP. Grants immunity to all movement impairing effects for 8 seconds. Grants a stack of 3 "bladeturns"- Blocks the damage of the next three damaging attacks on the player. A 50% resist for (6-10?) seconds to force and tech effects (Sins/Shadows have a 10 second 50% dodge with Deflection and a 100% force/tech resist for 3 seconds- this would put us on generally the same level, but with the effects inverted). *~-------~* "Fanciful" changes to make us an interesting and engaging fully featured class: --- Non-spec: -Our set bonuses suck. They really really suck. Like for realz. Fix them. -Increase the amount of time the Tactical Advantage/Upperhand buff is active. QOL change that would make our lives as dps much better. -Allow every spec to spec into a way to improve Countermeasures/Surrender for pvp. Though Lethality/Dirty Fighting has a lackluster talent to add to this ability, I'd like to see the ability transformed into something really useful in pvp. Personally, I would make detaunts function like pvp detaunts in WAR. I have always been a bit annoyed and confused as to why detaunts weren't migrated with guard and taunt. But failing that, let's have something interesting to spec into for each tree for this ability (including healing). I earlier detailed some changes I'd like to see added to Counterstrike/Dirty Trickster, to give an idea of things you can do with it. I'm not going to give specific suggestions here, because the sky's the limit. Have some fun, make this skill worthwhile in pvp~ --- Concealment/Scrapper: -Give us a new ability- A 20m ground-targeted teleport on a 45s cooldown. I have long wanted a teleport for the class, due to our awfulness at huttball (and I played when practically ALL that popped was huttball). I was actually quite disturbed when 2.0 came around that sins/shadows got a teleport (and my other main is a sin...). Now their teleport wasn't exactly what I was wanting, and I've come to appreciate the roll for certain benefits- BUT the roll is currently a bit of a liability in combat. So, to fix the issue with Concealment/Scrapper missing a third clickable ability talent, and to deal with some of the issues that still plague the class, I suggest this ability. Used like any ground-targeted ability, it teleports the player to the location they click. 20m so that it can be effective in huttball in getting up on the catwalks again (one would drop the huttball if holding it while using). This ability would be a boon both defensively and offensively, and add to the weak utility of the Concealment/Scrapper spec. -Waylay/Sawed Off is unimpressive. A 4% damage increase to Backstab/Backblast is just... sad. I really have no suggestions for this other than... do something to improve it. -Give us 30% AOE damage reduction. We're one of the most strict mdps and we don't have this... it's just embarrassing Bioware. What have you been thinking? -I add my voice to the chorus of people that want this spec to be more debuff based. My favorite stealthers have been debuff based. A healing debuff would be lovely (incoming or outgoing). I'd also like to see the Acid Blade/Flechette Round debuff reverted to it's original armor debuff value. Other possible debuffs include -accuracy (considering the "Scrapper" doesn't have a sand in the eyes ability, this needs to be rectified!), -power, -crit, -main stat... etc. There's a lot that can be done here, and I find debuffing stealthers more engaging to play than burst... and they're generally tolerated better by other players. --- Lethality/Dirty Fighting: -Allow a way for us to gain Tactical Advantage/Upperhand from Overload Shot/Quickshot. This is not something new. We've been asking for this since beta. We've been asking for this SINCE the Tactical Advantage/Upperhand mechanic went live in beta. Perhaps now, over two years later, you might actually take this request seriously. -Give us a talent that increases the range of Shiv/Blaster Whip to 10m. Failing that you don't allow us to gain TA/UH off of Overload/Quickshot, this is another option. For Shiv you could use the knife toss animation used for the snare. For Blaster Whip you can either create a new animation with a tossed blaster, or just value functionality over style and use a normal shot animation/scattergun animation. -Give us a talent that increases all 10m attacks by 5 (to 15m total) or 10m (to 20m total). Though there is a bonus to having them stop at 10m (between 5 and 10m being the sweet spot for strict melee classes with leap), I've always wanted to see the class as a sort of mobile midrange rdps, like the 'Quick Shootin'' Squig Herder (a masterfully designed class that BioWare could learn a lot from). I feel this would give the class some uniqueness, and add to our tactics. -Give us a talent that gives full portable cover benefits. I have been staunchly against the removal of portable cover since beta. I already stated that the crouch/hard cover nerfs CANNOT go live, and established we need them. This is to give Lethality/Dirty Fighting a small edge against ranged. Since I see the spec as a midranged mobile rdps, I'd like to see it get a little bit extra in that category. Currently crouch is great against mdps, but not useful against rdps... this would help us against rdps, particularly when they knock us away to unload on us, we could enter portable cover and get some defense against their attacks. Not much, but it would be something. ----- Seeing as I play both a Scoundrel and Operative on a daily basis, I feel uncomfortable posting this in just one of the threads, so I shall post it in both. Undoubtedly Musco and the devs are reading both, so this is not my indictment that one thread might be favored over the other, but just my feeling that I don't want to play favorites with a class I play both sides of.

It is good to see you, BioWare, actually attempt to open communication with us. But this should have been done over a year ago, and at this point you have fully exhausted our goodwill. I shall categorize my suggestions by what needs to be done immediately to improve the quality of life for the specs, and then go into more fanciful ideas about fixing our problems. I say fanciful, because you ignored all our recommendations in beta, opting instead to launch the class with the most broken spec in game (lethality/dirty fighting) and the functioning but under-developed burst spec that allowed people to stack adrenals and buffs to perform stunlock kills as 50s on players sub-50. Then you nerfed that into the ground, and never went back to look at the carnage you inflicted on it. We also were the worst of the healers at launch just to add to the misery of our class. So when I say fanciful, I mean in your terms for our class, BioWare. Other sane people would consider them the normal sort of buffs and changes to make us a fully featured class (which we currently are not). Without further ado~ *~-------~* Immediate Changes to Improve our lives: --- Non-spec: DO NOT TAKE AWAY CROUCH AND HARD COVER BENEFITS in 2.5 I cannot stress this enough. Not only are you taking a core component of what the class' identity is, you are severely nerfing Lethality/Dirty Fighting and making the one job Concealment/Scrapper were good at in huttball (defense) impossible. Before all else, this nerf cannot go into effect. And I want to expand upon the Huttball point a little. You have teased a new huttball warzone, this implies we will now be dealing with two warzones in the mix that we are extremely poor at. And if this nerf goes into effect, will make us nearly useless unless we're healing. We depend on crouch to not allow people to leap or pull us, this is most important on defense. We have no Knockback, no Pull, and no Leap. This means we have no way to stop leapers from using us as a target to leap to unless we're stealthed if you take away crouch benefits. We can't knock them back off. We can't jump in the pit and pull them with us. We can't leap to the catwalks from the pit. This makes us COMPLETELY USELESS AND A LIABILITY in Huttball defense. If ONLY for this reason, this is the reason this insult of a nerf cannot go live. --- Concealment/Scrapper: - Revert Backstab/Backblast to an 8 second CD. - Remove the positional requirement on Hidden Strike/Shoot First (QOL change to make our lives less annoying). -Create or add on to an existing talent: When stealth is broken without using Hidden Strike/Shoot First a 10 second effect allowing the use of Hidden Strike/Shoot First out of Stealth is granted (QOL change so we aren't so hurt by having stealth broken in a chaotic melee with AOEs flying everywhere). -Combine Inclement Conditioning/Brawler's Grit and Scouting/Shifty-eyed into a single talent. -Scrap Revitilizers/Surprise Comeback and rework it. Suggestions: Reduce damage taken by 15% for duration of alacrity buff. Grants a stack of 3 "bladeturns"- Blocks the damage of the next three damaging attacks on the player. Grants a stack of reactive heals- heals the player when they are attacked for the number of stacked buffs. Grants immunity to pulls and knockbacks for the duration of the alacrity buff. A 50% resist for (6-10?) seconds to force and tech effects (Sins/Shadows have a 10 second 50% dodge with Deflection and a 100% force/tech resist for 3 seconds- this would put us on generally the same level, but with the effects inversed). -Ghost/Fight or Flight needs a reworking. There are many fine suggestions in this thread already. --- Lethality/Dirty Fighting: -Toxic Regulators/Concussion now blocks your periodic effects from from breaking sleep effects FROM ALL PLAYERS (A MAJOR QOL change I believe all dot specs should have, we currently are substantially less group friendly because of this). -Combine Augmented Shields/Hotwired Defenses and Escape Plan/Smuggled Defenses into a single talent. -Buff Counterstrike/Dirty Trickster (this is in addition to it's current function). Suggestions: Reduces damage taken by 50% for 6 seconds (I've long wanted pvp detaunts in this game). Heals the player for 20% of their maximum HP. Grants immunity to all movement impairing effects for 8 seconds. Grants a stack of 3 "bladeturns"- Blocks the damage of the next three damaging attacks on the player. A 50% resist for (6-10?) seconds to force and tech effects (Sins/Shadows have a 10 second 50% dodge with Deflection and a 100% force/tech resist for 3 seconds- this would put us on generally the same level, but with the effects inverted). *~-------~* "Fanciful" changes to make us an interesting and engaging fully featured class: --- Non-spec: -Our set bonuses suck. They really really suck. Like for realz. Fix them. -Increase the amount of time the Tactical Advantage/Upperhand buff is active. QOL change that would make our lives as dps much better. -Allow every spec to spec into a way to improve Countermeasures/Surrender for pvp. Though Lethality/Dirty Fighting has a lackluster talent to add to this ability, I'd like to see the ability transformed into something really useful in pvp. Personally, I would make detaunts function like pvp detaunts in WAR. I have always been a bit annoyed and confused as to why detaunts weren't migrated with guard and taunt. But failing that, let's have something interesting to spec into for each tree for this ability (including healing). I earlier detailed some changes I'd like to see added to Counterstrike/Dirty Trickster, to give an idea of things you can do with it. I'm not going to give specific suggestions here, because the sky's the limit. Have some fun, make this skill worthwhile in pvp~ --- Concealment/Scrapper: -Give us a new ability- A 20m ground-targeted teleport on a 45s cooldown. I have long wanted a teleport for the class, due to our awfulness at huttball (and I played when practically ALL that popped was huttball). I was actually quite disturbed when 2.0 came around that sins/shadows got a teleport (and my other main is a sin...). Now their teleport wasn't exactly what I was wanting, and I've come to appreciate the roll for certain benefits- BUT the roll is currently a bit of a liability in combat. So, to fix the issue with Concealment/Scrapper missing a third clickable ability talent, and to deal with some of the issues that still plague the class, I suggest this ability. Used like any ground-targeted ability, it teleports the player to the location they click. 20m so that it can be effective in huttball in getting up on the catwalks again (one would drop the huttball if holding it while using). This ability would be a boon both defensively and offensively, and add to the weak utility of the Concealment/Scrapper spec. -Waylay/Sawed Off is unimpressive. A 4% damage increase to Backstab/Backblast is just... sad. I really have no suggestions for this other than... do something to improve it. -Give us 30% AOE damage reduction. We're one of the most strict mdps and we don't have this... it's just embarrassing Bioware. What have you been thinking? -I add my voice to the chorus of people that want this spec to be more debuff based. My favorite stealthers have been debuff based. A healing debuff would be lovely (incoming or outgoing). I'd also like to see the Acid Blade/Flechette Round debuff reverted to it's original armor debuff value. Other possible debuffs include -accuracy (considering the "Scrapper" doesn't have a sand in the eyes ability, this needs to be rectified!), -power, -crit, -main stat... etc. There's a lot that can be done here, and I find debuffing stealthers more engaging to play than burst... and they're generally tolerated better by other players. --- Lethality/Dirty Fighting: -Allow a way for us to gain Tactical Advantage/Upperhand from Overload Shot/Quickshot. This is not something new. We've been asking for this since beta. We've been asking for this SINCE the Tactical Advantage/Upperhand mechanic went live in beta. Perhaps now, over two years later, you might actually take this request seriously. -Give us a talent that increases the range of Shiv/Blaster Whip to 10m. Failing that you don't allow us to gain TA/UH off of Overload/Quickshot, this is another option. For Shiv you could use the knife toss animation used for the snare. For Blaster Whip you can either create a new animation with a tossed blaster, or just value functionality over style and use a normal shot animation/scattergun animation. -Give us a talent that increases all 10m attacks by 5 (to 15m total) or 10m (to 20m total). Though there is a bonus to having them stop at 10m (between 5 and 10m being the sweet spot for strict melee classes with leap), I've always wanted to see the class as a sort of mobile midrange rdps, like the 'Quick Shootin'' Squig Herder (a masterfully designed class that BioWare could learn a lot from). I feel this would give the class some uniqueness, and add to our tactics. -Give us a talent that gives full portable cover benefits. I have been staunchly against the removal of portable cover since beta. I already stated that the crouch/hard cover nerfs CANNOT go live, and established we need them. This is to give Lethality/Dirty Fighting a small edge against ranged. Since I see the spec as a midranged mobile rdps, I'd like to see it get a little bit extra in that category. Currently crouch is great against mdps, but not useful against rdps... this would help us against rdps, particularly when they knock us away to unload on us, we could enter portable cover and get some defense against their attacks. Not much, but it would be something. ----- Seeing as I play both a Scoundrel and Operative on a daily basis, I feel uncomfortable posting this in just one of the threads, so I shall post it in both. Undoubtedly Musco and the devs are reading both, so this is not my indictment that one thread might be favored over the other, but just my feeling that I don't want to play favorites with a class I play both sides of.

The idea that the class was not designed with cover benefits in mind is ludicrous and insulting. To dismiss it at this point, after TWO years is a joke, and paints the person who wrote such a statement as not only clueless, but incompetent. This requires that this faulty claim must be disproved. But, before I begin to refute the insane declaration that our design wasn't intended to incorporate the benefits of cover and crouch, I must take umbrage with a statement I have seen BioWare use to describe our class as of late: This is absolutely false. We have never been slippery. A more apt term for how we play can go to our most underpowered tree currently, "Scrapper." We have always been the scrapper of the classes, the class that scraped by on leveraging our weak skillset to manage against immeasurable odds. We have always had specs at the bottom of the barrel, we have always had to scrape and scratch and claw our way to success. Even when Scrapper/Concealment was viewed as the most overpowered class, killing people in a few blows, we managed that by scra ping, by utilizing stacking adrenals and buffs. And that was the ONLY reason we were capable of it. We've made Scrapper/Concealment work by using HIPS to use our opener again, which we were apparently not supposed to do.... We've made it work by using sabo charge as a ghetto finisher. We've made it work despite having awful energy management, we've done this by using our "auto attack," something that is pretty much unthinkable for other dps. We made it work when we had no way to catch up to our prey except "stealth." We've made it work as one of the strictest mdps with one defensive in dodge/evasion that's basically half a defensive. We've made it work by utilizing crouch to stop the tanks from easily getting us away from our prey. We've made it work, but just barely. We've clawed our way to success, but just barely. We've made Dirty Fighting/Lethality work by using the few ranged abilities we use to our advantage. We play the range game, we open from range on melee to force them to come to us, to give us unimpeded time to damage them, to give us an advantage against their many tools to deal with us. We wait, and kite, and scrape until we have a chance to finish them off, to use our collected UH/TA on a barrage of wounding shots/culls to finish them off before they ground our face into the soil. We leverage our few abilities and all our cc, and crouch, to force them to play on our terms. We scrape for our victories, we win them with hardwork and perserverance. Even as a healer, we have scraped. For all the talk about how overpowered we are (now), not only has it not always been that way (many of us remember launch, when we were the weakest of the healers), even today we scrape by. For all our supposed survivability, it's not for defensives or ways to get away or people off of us. It's because we can heal much (especially ourselves) through instas. But we are still at a severe disadvantage at focus healing someone from near death to survival as long as our casted heals are so easily interrupted. We are the quaint lifeline that can keep someone near death up long enough for another healer to save. We have always been the queens and kings of pillar humping, by popping in and out while hotting people, and that's not going to change with 2.5. The only thing "slippery" about playing this class is our prey. Every other class makes our lives hell, they are the slippery ones. They leap away, or force speed away, or roll away, or knock us away. They snare us and root us. They stop us from stealthing. They pull us away. They kill us. This is what it's like to play the class when we're not gibbed by the massive aoe fest. We are at the mercy of every other class, even when we succeed, we usually succeed because they were the poorer players. We succeeded because they blinked. In many ways, it is the true Han Solo experience. We barely scrape by in an inhospitable world looking to knock us down. Our equipment is half broken, our tools are few, and that blaster really isn't a match for the "hokey religion." Sometimes, sometimes... we get that lucky shot, and after all the suffering, it makes it worth it. All the clawing and scra ping, and it brings us back. The few, the determined, the stubborn- that lucky shot brings us back. We're not slippery, we're down on our luck and praying to get by. And maybe we get that break occasionally, and knock someone to their doom in a blind stroke of luck... but not really.... ...No knockback. - If roll is what makes you consider us "slippery," let me inform you of the awful truth. Roll is a liability, not only is it a massive energy drain, it cannot be used in actual combat because every time we activate it we have to consider, "I could be bugged, I'll have to leave the warzone, I'll be forced to have wasted this time, and I'll be letting down my team." We have to ask ourselves if we'll willing to risk that every time we use the roll in pvp. To say we don't use it much because of the fear is an understatement. But hot damn, we can get the huttball or to a node before anyone else! That totally makes up for it's uselessness in every other pvp situation. Addendum: That does not actually make up for it's uselessness in actual pvp. - So understand every time you call us "slippery," we find it quite insulting. We don't have the tools to be slippery, and it's just a big damned warning sign that you know nothing about the class BioWare. So please, never mention "slippery" again in any of your messages to us, unless it's to apologize for calling us "slippery." *~-------------------------~* So I shall now begin the process of refuting the faulty claim that we were not designed to have cover benefits: The Positional Argument All classes have either, an ability to alter their position to match their prey, alter the position of their prey or predator, or have abilities to ward against others changing their postion. Crouch was the Scoundrel and Operative's only ability on this front, and without it we lose the only tool we had against the barrage of classes that have multiple abilities on this front. To put this in perspective, I present a list of every one of these abilities: Jedi Knight and Sith Warrior have leap. Jedi Guardian and Sith Juggernaut have friendly leap. Jedi Gaurdian and Sith Juggernaut have force push. Vigilance and Vengence specs have immunity to cc after leap. Focus and Rage specs have a second leap. Jedi Consular and Sith Inquisitor have AOE Knockback. Jedi Sage and Sith Sorceror have immunity bubble. Jedi Shadow and Sith Assassin have teleport. Jedi Shadow and Sith Assassin have shroud/resilience which grant immunity to tech/force effects. Kinetic Combat and Darkness specs have pull. Troopers and Bounty Hunters have Hold the Line/Hydraulic Override which grants immunity to knockbacks and pulls. Vangaurd and Powertech have pull. Shield Specialist and Shield Tech have leap. Commandos and Mercenaries Have AOE Knockback. Smuggler and Imperial Agent gain immunity to leap and pulls while in cover or crouched. Gunslingers and Snipers have a knockback while in cover. Gunslingers and Sniper have Bunker Down/Entrench that grants immunity to all cc in cover. Sharpshooter and Marksmanship have access to another knockback. There are 18 articles on this list. There are at least two articles for every class, with the exception of one class. The one class is our class, Scoundrel/Operative. And that one article is being taken away with 2.5. It is astounding BioWare would even consider this, if anything our abilities on this front should be growing, not shrinking, as the list has grown with time for other classes. The immunity while crouching was always intended, from a most basic balance standpoint, to take it away now after two years after most other classes has been given more options to control or not be controlled is unthinkable. ------ The Anti-Tank Argument One of the things our benefits from crouch grant that we have direly needed is some form of protection from tanks. Since we don't have the survivability to handle going toe to toe with other melee, or being in an actual melee with it's aoe flying around, but we could use crouch to give us reprieve from their leaps and pulls when we're attacking our squishy ranged or healing target. We force them to come to us, or in the case of JG/SJ, use their friendly leap. We have no real defense when our prey is trying to get away from us, but when we're both not moving, this is an invaluable tool to give us a chance to kill them, otherwise we are at the mercy of the gaggles of superior classes with superior tools. They can still taunt us, they can still hurt our effort... but at least they have to work to get to us and make our job impossible. ------ The Healing Argument Once upon a time, hotting and instaing was not a legitimate way to heal. It was fluff and expressed itself as fluff. It's still really fluff, but it's become more effective as changes have come. 3 stack on UH/TA began it. Then followed buffs to our group hot. Then energy management was made easier. The cost of of our hot was reduced. Expertise was buffed to make healing better. We have come to a point where what was unthinkable in a pre-1.2 world, has come to pass. You can be called a competant healer by never casting a heal. Now, this doesn't mean you're a good healer. A good healer will try to save focused people, and the only way to do that is casting a heal. And that's where our problems begin. Other healers have tools to deal with interrupts, and multiple casted heals. We have exactly one casted heal we can use without UH/TA, and we have exactly one tool to deal with interrupts. That one tool to deal with interrupts is the benefits from cover and crouch disallowing leaps to interrupt us. It gives us moments of reprieve to get our casted heals off. And this is not only a benefit to healers, this is a benefit to dps that get a chance to heal themself. This was intended. This was needed. Without this we're at a severe disadvantage against interrupts on casts (including snipe). We have some of the highest hurdles to the few casted abilities we have, and the least amount of tools to deal with them. This was, and is, a required tool. And considering in your Merc answers you spoke about trying to give them more reprieves from interrupts, to directly nerf another class to be more susceptible to interrupts is insulting. ------ The Ability Argument We have abilities that require cover or crouch. Despite what people might think, we have to use these abilities to be successful. or rather one of these abilities. You can tell, when they were designing to the class, that this was taken into account. We're squishy, but we still have some potent ranged abilities, we're still supposed to leverage those abilities to kill certain targets. We're especially supposed to do this as Dirty Fighting/Lethality. And without the immunities it grants, it severely hurts the spec's ability to do what it needs to do. Dirty Fighting/Lethality was made to be the spec that fights in the in betweens, that uses it's odd ranges to confuse and dominate over it's prey with quick thinking and hardwork. And after 2.0 it had become one of the most fun, if not still troubled by some issues, specs in the game. To take away it's intended crouch immunities is to give it a massive blow in effectiveness and fun factor. ------ The "Two Years Have Passed" Argument Nearly two years have passed since release, and about two years have passed since you took portable cover from us in beta (when you should have taken the benefits away if it was your intention). The fact that this has not been addressed among the many many nerfs we've eaten. The fact that this has not even been mentioned until now. The fact that there wasn't even a hint of it in our responses a few weeks back. All of this shows not only that BioWare lies that they "never intended for them to continue using cover after choosing to be an Operative/Scoundrel", that this change has likely been made in the weeks after they answered our questions. BioWare is not even changing Flyby/Orbital after talking about it in our questions (something we did not even ask about, I should note), but they are making the biggest single nerf they have made to any class in the game to our class now? Bull. And that is exactly what this is. The Biggest Nerf a Class Has Ever Suffered in SWTOR. This is changing a core mechanic to the class. A basic ability we have all come to rely on and use. In every warzone. In every fight. It is no different from taking leap away from JK/SW. Or project/shock and AOE KB from the JC/SI. Or the AOE KB away from Mercs/Mandos, the pull away from VGs/PTs. We may not use the advantages of cover in the same way a Slinger or Sniper does, but we use them just the same. And just like them, we use them constantly. There is no good reason to take it away from us, just as there is no good reason to take it away from them. We are both reliant on the tools our base class has given us, we just rely on them in different ways. To rob us of them is to change the very core of what this class is.

Sorry for interrupting the regularly scheduled theorycrafting and numbers crunching, but I have some concerns to put forth to BW about the changes proposed: As a tankasin who does predominately pvp, some of these changes are good, but from my perspective others are not so feasible or useful in the chaotic land of pvp. Good. Having the reactive and undependable self healing replaced by real mitigation is a positive (especially since you unrighteously took away our armor... twice). Do I wish we could have proper mitigation and the self heals on our stance? Yes. Do I think it could be designed so we got both? Yes. Do I think BioWare could design it properly so we got both? No. I'm sorry BioWare, but my faith in your ability to design and balance anything in this game no longer exists, so I'm willing to take baby steps with you now. This is an very good improvement though, so stay on this track with Combat Technique/Dark Charge. This is a GREAT improvement, the talent has always been nigh but useless, so having a good reason to spec it is awesome. Thumbs up. This I dislike. Though I can see the potential in pve, in pvp this is just... In pvp, you rarely get off the full channel for harnessed, you're either interrupted or you need to stop to do something like stopping a cap, interrupting a healer, or peeling for your healers. This means the pvp tankasin is going to be out a deficit of mitigation most of the time, mitigation we should be getting and is being factored into our "balance" in pve. From my perspective, heals on harnessed being reactive opposed to proactive mitigation is better, because you don't get to start combat with a harnessed channel, you have to work up to it, so there is a delay between when combat begins and you get the mitigation. And this is assuming we get 4 stacks when we actually get the channel off. I feel harnessed should stay reactive, to give us back something we've lost as it takes time to actually build up and use it. So, I have a proposal, keep the heals on Harnessed Shadows/Darkness. Also restore the Combat Technique/Dark Charge heals during Battle Readiness/Overcharge Saber so the cooldown retains the power it currently has. This would allow for the passive mitigation in Combat Technique/Dark Charge while also having active healing, we can keep the lore of the classes and our uniqueness among the tanks while also giving us the mitigation we need. It is a rare day that I turn down a buff, but... I remember what you did to Scrapper/Concealment, so I ask... before the massive whining that will end up in extreme nerfs for Infiltration/Deception that will last, likely, years... Please Please do not buff Shadow Strike/Maul. Increasing the damage of the others is fine, it will help with consistent damage... but buffing the spike damage of Shadow Strike/Maul is a recipe for disaster. I ask you to focus your attention elsewhere, please. Now, I just want to point out... these status effect purges you listed? Cannot currently erase force dots. You have effectively told us... that the skills that do not erase force dots... will not be able to erase force dots in the future! Perhaps you meant Restoration/Purge... how you missed the only status purging ability that can remove force dots, I do not know.... That said, uncleansable dots are an interesting change that will change very little. The spec needs serious survival help, and a restoration of the damage that was taken away during 2.0, uncleansable dots will do little to help it in pvp or pve. ---- With all of that said, these answers (and the merc answers) were substantially better than the Scoundrel answers (and some other answers in the past I shall not name). They were informative and generally written from a non-dismissive place, you showed actual concerns for our problems and addressed issues the classes actually have. These are the sort of answers every class should have gotten, and I'm happy for the more frank discussion of overall balance of the game and the classes the questions came from. Thumbs up. With all that said, the resident Sin/Shadow theorycrafters and number crunchers can continue their much appreciated work~

All this did was make it possible for EVERY NPC, Leaders and Prisoners, to get bugged. I went there not but hours after the "fix" was deployed in the patch and already saw bugged NPCs. Yes, it's much harder for every NPC to get bugged now between weekly maintenances, BUT THIS DID NOT FIX THE ISSUE. And if the servers are not brought down consistently, like they weren't for three weeks over the holidays, it is quite easy for every NPC to get bugged. I don't really wish to sound mean here, but do the devs even KNOW what is happening in the game? Do they even pay attention? Did they even go to take a look on ANY server at what was occurring? It should have been immediately obvious this "fix" would "fix" nothing, but just delay the complete bugging of the quest longer. *sigh* I bugged this quest, and reported it for days after I first saw the issue in section x, for at least a couple weeks I did it religiously... and it's as if the devs never even look at the bug reports, and CSR do nothing to help or even report the issue to the devs. And as an aside the fix for Targeted Misfire was weak, and only made the quest go from "incredibly idiotically designed" to "Annoying, but completable if there aren't 5 people around." Is it so hard to make the codes drop randomly from every NPC in the area? Is that so difficult?

So as is the norm, BioWare has done something incredibly stupid that any sane developer would have looked at an realized was incredibly stupid and quickly would have come up with a different solution. Like the Malavai Quinn romance. The changes to expertise. The changes to resolve. Getting rid of the large amount of moddables and color match to chest in beta. Buffing derpsmash. The list goes on, and the cartel pack adaptive armor debacle is now added to it. I really don't get it, the devs know we hate two things above all about the ugly armor they keep throwing at us. 1. Hoods. 2. Crazy things glued on the armor, usually at the shoulders. And yet, that's what they added to these armor sets for the most part. I like to imagine the brainstorming sessions the devs have when they come up with this stuff: "Hey, you know that armor Jadus wears that we don't really have an attractive custom version of in game for SIs to wear, and yet we know they want without stripes or bronze tubes and pink accents- Let's give it to them, except, LET'S MAKE IT UGLIER, add a hood they adore so much, the mummy shoulders... and damn, it needs something else.... I KNOW, antenna on the gloves! Perfect!" "I was thinking we should give them a JC styled set, maybe something nice and simple with no crazy shoulders or hoods or strange accessories, maybe just a nice robe with some gold accents. But then, IS IT REALLY a JC inspired look without an ugly hood and inexplicably stupid shoulders? I THINK NOT!" Essentially, every change was awful with maybe the exception of the collar on the trailblazer (the shoulder is inexplicable and stupid), and they couldn't even improve the whole set, the changes to the trailblazer boots ruined one of the nicest and sleekest boots they've added. Any sane developer would have realized that people wanted the items they got in game, they used those items, they designed outfits around those items, and wouldn't want them to randomly change. A sane developer wouldn't have changed them. A sane developer would have apologized for the minor fail at advertising something that wasn't exactly as it was advertised and offered the "corrected" sets as sets players could buy in the 'Equipment' section and discounted them for a few weeks for the players that wanted them and bought packs for them only to be let down. They could then correct the advertising image to what was actually in the pack, and everyone would be happy. But no, this is BioWare. I hope BioWare does the right thing NOW though, the thing I described in the above paragraph.

I don't spec Scramble, 20% for a few seconds I don't think makes much of a difference (I've considered changing out of the diag scan talents for pvp, but I'm too lazy, and I do occasionally use it in pvp to regain energy when cool head is down and I'm in combat). I'm talking about Sneaky, and how it can help with getting away from the group when certain bosses use targeted attacks that aoe (and KB/KD in the specific cases I will note). Some people say it's totally useless for pve, but it has it's uses despite what they say. I wouldn't necessarily spec it on purpose for pve, but it's not completely useless. Annihilator droid in EV puts a reticle on a player, and if there are raid members nearby they're going to be hit by the blast and Knocked Down. The Fabricator droid in KP does the same thing, but it's kind of worse, because the KD/KB can blow the person off the top ledge or into a pulse/stun droid. If only the targeted person takes the damage, they don't suffer the KB/KD. You have a few seconds to get away from people once you've been targeted, but even a little speed can save the day in those situations. Also Karagga has these black hole things that you want to run away from as soon as you get pulled in, not as dangerous, but you can be pulled a far ways from where you were, and Karagga also likes to aoe on these black holes sometimes. And the Murder Droids... ha, well, Karagga's Palace has some nasty trash. So nasty, that we have more trouble on the trash than the bosses (there was this one time we accidentally aggroed both turrets at the end, was hilarious having half the the raid dead and the other half huddling behind a pylon afraid for their lives- you'll understand this situation once you play the ops~). In the room with the fabricator droid, there's a bunch of techs that seemingly can't be cced properly, the normal battle droid, and the droid that spawns the murder droids. So what happens is the droid that spawns gets ignored so the techs can die first... so it has the chance to spawn it's murder droids. Somehow I always end up with hate (it's never the sages, I swear, always me), and spend the fight running circles with a bunch of murder droids chasing me... it's kind of like pvp~

I commiserate with your whining, trust me, I go through times I just want to murder the BW devs that (poorly) designed this class. But I do have to note some things on something you said. Never ever stay still. Ever. You will die. I'm wearing BM/Rakata in pvp, and 2 good dps can still tear me up. One good dps with decent gear, and I'm pretty finished as well. But... not all is lost. Granted a Sage could blow us out of the water here, but we have some tools to help us, along with LOSing anything that's trying to attack you as much as possible. Though I don't feel we have enough mobility, our mobility is what will save us in these situations. And our greatest tool? Triage. Triage. Triage. Triage. Triage. Cast it every time it's on cooldown. Every time. I kind of like to think of it as the opposite of the death by a thousand cuts, it's life by a thousand heals. Keep a double stack of HOTs on yourself. Use EM every time you get an UH proc. If they root you, blaster whip someone nearby, use the UH on an EM. Keep moving, don't stop. Run around things, everything. Take a jet in Huttball just to give yourself a chance to lose them for a moment. Force them to go on a goosechase. When you desperately need it, and the snares from force users are overwhelming you, pop dodge to try to give yourself a few feet more. If you gain enough ground, turn a corner out of LOS, quickly cast UM, and start moving again. ... We can't stand still and power heal because the only heal we can cast without UH is UM, and one interrupt and we're done. It's a major flaw in our design, and I honestly feel like the devs are complete idiots for letting it go live the way it currently is, especially considering the uselessness of KP. ... On a final note, I'm probably one of the tankiest scoundrels there is, it's pretty much the norm for me to take 200k+ damage in a wz (I average 3-6 deaths), and I do it by forcing my attackers to work for their kill. I've held off a cap on alderaan for minutes against multiple people. I've ran the huttball to the goal more than a scoundrel ever should. It's possible to do these things, but you have to be quick on your feet, and save your abilities for when they are most needed (also, I advise being biochem, the medpac is also pretty key to my survival).

Ironfist is the Mandalorian? (Sorry, bad with names, haven't done esseles once my guild started loving their 'false emp test,' long story, not worth explaining). He can be nasty, I've found the encounter is kind of decided by how good the tank and dps are. Vokk is the real trouble in Ess with his double saber throw (nasty instagibs there). That said, the biggest lie that so many people tell on these boards is that we live and die on our hot(s). It's not true, you should try to keep a double stack on the tank, but other than that, your bread and butter will be UM with an EM chaser. It takes a fair amount of time to go low on energy even spamming that combo. Though I haven't done the math, I get the impression that we have the best sustained 'burst' healing in the game because it's not gated by cooldowns, only our energy level. Basically, in the time span of a single gcd we can have a tick of our hot, UM, and EM hit. If all of these crit, your looking at over 10k healing right there in highend equipment. I'm not one to give much praise to the scoundrel skillset (trust me, my guild is probably very tired of hearing my whines), but I do get the impression that we do have some virtues, and this is one of them. That said, don't waste your time casting KP, it's sole use (which I never even try to do because it would require me to not use an UH proc on EM) is to fakecast so you can get an UM off in pvp (they never fall for diag scan... I think half of them think it's a damage ability due to the icon, honestly). Some major flaws in your spec, Flash Powder is basically worthless in pve (I think I only use Flash Grenade in Taral V for the final boss, and on certain trash in KP) and you're not going to be blaster whipping much in high end pve. Mortal Wound and Open Wound on the other hand.... I have long considered this to be the best pve spec... I'm too lazy to respec from my normal pvpish spec for our raids, but it has the most utility for high-end pve. Survivor's scars is far more important in pvp than pve, 3% healing is very unlikely to save someone's life (perhaps NM Bonethrasher, but for the most part, no), I'm uncertain why so many think it's a must have for pve. Granted, you can see from my normal spec on HM that spec is not nearly as important as some might make it out to be. Although the run speed can help getting out of the way of certain attacks (so many blow up your friends targeted attacks...), also seems to help me kite the Murder Droids that always seem to want my blood in the Fabricator's room. [Note: I have heard rumors of Mortal Wound not working, I honestly have not had it specced enough to say if it's bugged or not. Throwing it out there that it may be useless to spec if it's bugged.] False. Six points are not wasted if used properly on Shrap Bomb, Mortal Wound, Open Wound. And having Dirty Kick on a 30 second cooldown is always useful, if only for trash. Any little bit of dps you can get on HM and NM is needed. Doesn't matter on EM, but it does on the higher difficulties. If you aren't dpsing as a healer during Soa's windows, or the Fabricator's windows, you're not playing to the best of your ability. That missing dps could be the difference between hitting the enrage timer and not. Sometimes you can't, but any gcd that you aren't healing, should be a gcd used to do damage. And I say this from a group that easily clears enrage timers by a large amount on HM. Shrap Bomb in pvp is not a tool to do damage, or snare, but to to keep people from capping a point. One Shrap Bomb on a door in VS can be the difference between winning and losing. And I would advise always skipping Kolto Cloud for pvp. Sure, you won't be getting 500k healing, but those numbers don't matter, they're fluff that delayed the inevitable. Focus heal people getting targeted, that's what will make the difference between winning and losing. I would also advise skipping it for pve, if for no other reason than the 2 wasted points to get it (the diag scan talents are nearly a waste as is). ------------- ------------- EDIT: I nearly forgot to add this, and it's pretty important to those new to hms. The medic set bonuses suck. Worse than all the alacrity enhances. They buff an ability I don't think one should ever spec and an ability one should never use. I got the enforcer set, and my advice to up-and-coming sawbones is to do the same. The back blast bonus isn't much use in pve (nice to have the 2piece for pvp though), but the +5 energy is useful. Rip out the accuracy enhances (enhances are the only place the accuracy stat is) and replace them with something better, I tend to use the enhances from T2 gloves/head, even on my T3 (great if you can get T3 crit/surge/power enhances from drops, but my experiences tell me that the whole raid will be rolling on those when they drop, which isn't much).

Away from the people that seem convinced this was a 'fix,' with their fix there seems to have been a few bugs introduced. Firstly, and most importantly, the initial spawn of the droids seems to be bugged. The first wave will spawn, and within about 10 seconds another wave will spawn right on top of the former wave. In fact my raid thought they were double spawning it was happening so quickly, I became aware of the situation because I was taking out one of the pulse droids with my body, and would sometimes have the 'second' wave spawn on top of me while I was doing this. This cannot be intended because none of the other waves double spawn in this respect. Secondly, we had an issue with one of the dumps not activating. Whether or not this was introduced with the patch or something that was already there, I do not know. This is assuming that the lack of despawning is intended.

Well, that's what I assumed, but right now there's no more story to be had, so we're left with a strange unsatisfying ending. Or at least that's how I felt. I think there is the potential for a lot of epic in the future (if they don't drop the ball like they did in Act 2/3), but we can't see it right now, so it's sort of a let down.

I found Act 1 (with the exception of Tatooine, because the Smuggler seems to take a level in major derp there, and the focus is taken off the smuggler for silly jedi/sith stuff) pretty well done, the reward is kind of silly, but overall it does things right. -Extensive contact with your main antagonist for the Act -Foreshadowing of future events -Minor contact with a future antagonist -Definite story arcs -The building of action and tension in the right places Then Act 1 ends, and it all goes to hell. Act 2 has no real structure, you barely notice when it ends. Act 3 doesn't give the proper time to confront the antagonists you met in Act 2, just sort of tosses them out there for the final confrontation. Skavak is the most engaging and well written of the antagonists, and they just dropped the ball after him by quite a bit. But, the most troubling thing I felt about the story was the finale. It doesn't feel like a finale, it feels like a beginning. In fact, you almost feel like the things you did on that last few missions are going to show up in the story later... story that never comes. It feels unfinished. This may be good or bad for the future, but right now it's just unsatisfying. - And yes, I constantly bemoan missing Skavak, to this day. I want them to bring him back... he was entirely too much fun.

The crit one, for the most part. And in highend play, I often use it on dps rather than healing. If you have a very high crit, and a low crit mult, you may consider the surge one instead (I'm currently sitting on an 84% crit mult though, surge is pretty easy to get). Some might say power instead though for more reliable healing/damage, but for the most part you should have a pretty high crit as a smuggler, and you're 'gambling' (not much of a gamble as a smug, but the adrenal can help make it more a guarantee) on the crits to really keep people alive. Triage one is pretty useless as you're going to have to dps at some points in hm+ ops. EDIT: I should note, as a biochem, having one of each of the ones I noted sans triage (and the armor one, just in case) is a fine idea, and you can use them according to what you need. Not hard to get the mats for the rakatas, not hard at all.

"But this one did go over and above, because it did not, uh, did not apply those modifiers correctly if you will." It required stealth and a positional... and now it does barely more damage than back blast. I'm uncertain which modifiers he's talking about. In fact, back blast will become a more reliable damage source because of the 2 piece pve set bonus. With that said, I'm a sawbones specced Scoundrel, and I had the delightful situation yesterday where a sorc I never even 'shot first' said to me in a wz that he couldn't wait for the nerfs to my class. Oh, did I ever enjoy telling him that my spec wasn't getting nerfed (just my ability to possibly kill my infernal council mob on higher difficulties...). But it made me think, perhaps part of the issue here is that people can't differentiate the skill sets. A full stabby Scou/Op with the survivability (weak though it may be against other healers) and utility of a healing Scou/Op? Yes, that would look overpowered. It can't exist, but it would look overpowered. Perhaps the devs are confused as well? And yes, that is a depressing thought. I should also note, that even with the current ability of the Scrapper/Concealment spec, using them in high end pve is kind of gimping yourself. Pretty much every fight favors range, and even the ones that don't, the spec doesn't have anything that someone else can't do better. EV: Annihilator droid- Favors ranged. Gharj- Definitely favors ranged. Infernal Council- Positional based class is screwed. Soa- Ha! you'd think a boss that gave you small windows to burst them would favor the spec, it doesn't because the crystal drops and instakills dps, so you have to run in during the small window to do damage. So again, heavily favors range. KP: Bonethrasher- With the set up, you don't want people moving for the most part, so doesn't favor positional damage. Jarg & Sorno- A boss that doesn't punish melee (odd indeed), unfortunately the one thing that's really needed here, interrupts, JKs can do better. Foreman Crusher- Favors ranged. Fabricator droid- Fire drops insta kill, have to stay out of range until it's dropped. Also can't do the puzzle up top and also dps like ranged can. Karagga- Heavily favors ranged. Very Heavily. We've never done any of the ops with a scrapper, and honestly, I suspect it would drag us down considerably. On the other hand, currently we've been liking a dual slinger set up for the scrambling fields and other utility. I personally like slingers more than commandos in ops as a healer. So, if they ever allow AC changes, the nerfed dps Scrappers/Concealment Ops will not have a dead character. And yes, that is another depressing thought. They need to desperately stop making bosses that so heavily favor ranged, and they need to buff the damage Scou/Op for pve. Changes already needed to be made to make them useful in pve, that they're getting nerfed here is a travesty, and shows the complete ineptitude of the devs.