Scoundrel DPS Brainstorming

[Cryowolf]

Make Kolto Pack instant cast and energy free baseline. Keep the UH requirement. In the Emergency Medpack talent, add a 25 energy cost and 1.5s cast time to Kolto Pack. Boom! Surprise Comeback 2.0, for both dps trees. Would be excellent if we could use this ability in stealth like the old Surprise Comeback talent. Self healing can now be part of our survivability without copying mechanics from another class.

Thoughts?

 

It does makes way more sense for our defense to come from self healing (class with healing tree) than from damage reduction like Sins (class with tank tree), but are there other talents in game that place a penalty on a skill for one tree? That just sounds funky to me. They could just add a Scurry type effect to an existing skill in Tier 5 or higher for Scrapper. But it does need to be buffed to a 100% proc for both DPS trees since it is already restricted by a cd anyway. Good idea.

[Racter]

It does makes way more sense for our defense to come from self healing (class with healing tree) than from damage reduction like Sins (class with tank tree), but are there other talents in game that place a penalty on a skill for one tree? That just sounds funky to me. They could just add a Scurry type effect to an existing skill in Tier 5 or higher for Scrapper. But it does need to be buffed to a 100% proc for both DPS trees since it is already restricted by a cd anyway. Good idea.

 

That was the only fair way I could think of to give both DPS trees the ability without giving our healers ANOTHER instant cast heal. In my head I spun it as a trade off, you get 1 instant UH heal at the start, and at level 30? 36? You trade that one instant heal for a better instant heal.

[Luckeyduckey]

The change to Madness sorc/sins only affects Sorc DPS/Healers, as no other class can cleanse the dots already. Only purge them. Dodge = Purge. 2.5 = Purge only.

 

We'll be fine.

[svdiachkov]

Amazed at the cynicism with which the approach to the smugglers and operatives company BioWare. Currently, the average branch is very bad.

My suggestions for changes secondary branches.

 

1. CD beckblast should be reduced to at least 9 seconds

 

2. If we take away cover, the sabotage should not require a cover.

 

3. Passive underdog must include either sabotage or sucker punch

 

4. Average branch is tied to stealth itself opener must be a critical hit

 

5. instead of a buff on alacrity by 6%, you need a buff 1/2/3 unit of energy regen. On the basis of 3 points in the Passive.

 

6. 30% damage reduction from mass attacks should be 3 branch, rather than the 2nd.

 

And I want to say that the scraper and concealment - it's not a constant DPS specs. So ask him to increase just silly. But the burst of stealth should be at a level not what we are seeing now. A good burst when opener and fragility out of stealth - here the success of rogue class.

 

PS Sorry for my english, translate through Google

Edited November 8, 2013 by svdiachkov

[Racter]

Yeah even with previous suggestions still too squishy. I got blown up with two slow release medpacks, two kolto packs, spam healing from my healer. I was also guarded and the DPS were taunted. Class is just too squishy for arenas. We need blackout and more passive damage reduction and aoe damage reduction.

 

They can say slippery and shady all they want. Slippery and shady isn't viable. Either they knowingly and willingly leave this class unviable as a DPS or they give us the massive survivability buffs we need to compete.

[Phenixx]

1) Change Fleshette to a stance mechanic and restore it's 50% armor pent.

 

2) Shoot First consumes Upper hand if out of stealth and behind the target. 12 second cd ( The KD effect only works from stealth)

 

3) Sucker Punch no longer uses Upper Hand and is our top tier talent and adjust it's dmg. ( Like Clairvoiant strike)

 

4) Lower Back Blasts CD back to 9 seconds.

 

5) Redesign Sneak to give 25% dmg reduction similar to the shadows.

 

6) With the stance mechanic, utilize spec points to give survivability. (ei..1 point after fleshette your stance will increase your mitigation by a % on crit) 3rd tier can reduce Shoot first's out of stealth cd, 1 second per point.

 

7) Upper hand can be consumed instantly to cast Underworld medicine with no activation time. (give the player a choice like commando's do...they can go for dmg or an instan heal)

 

8) Change how stealth works for all classes. Stealth should not break due to random aoe. Stealth should only break if the player takes direct damage. If someone sees you and hits you I agree stealth should break. However spamming some GTAOE or simply taking say..grenade dmg from some guy who runs by while having it on him, we still take the dmg but it should not break our stealth.

9) SET BONUSES- For the love of the force, please redesign our PVP set bonuses. Put 2 dps sets out there, on one set the 4 pc should be 15% crit to Back Blast, the other 15% to Blaster whip. Giving folks a choice of either a Scrapper set or a Dirty Fighting set. Unless you are feeling super generous and want to give that as one set

 

I do love this class and feel with just a few tweaks it could be competitive again. The Upper Hand mechanic is great for healing, restrictive to Scrapper and downright terrible for Dirty Fighting. I always felt that as a Scapper, I should not have to use a ranged move as a filler unless I wanted to. Our melee styles should flow, like they did before the increased cd to Back Blast. As it is there is a 1 global after the initial rotation where no melee styles are available. 2 globals on the second rotation

Edited November 8, 2013 by Phenixx
Added clarification about the knock down effect to Shoot First. Added clarification to stealth suggestion.

[Cutthroath]

Here are a few suggestions that could help you guys. I know some of them have already been posted.

 

About the ability :

 

1- Sabotage charge :

• Remove the cover requirement
  
• Make this ability part of a scoundrel main rotation. it feels somewhat a gunslinger only ability because it's nowhere in our talent trees like. A talent that reduce the cost would be nice
  

 

2- Back Blast :

• Lower the cooldown
  

 

3-Shoot first :

• Include the K.O 1.5 sec stun when used from stealth
  
• Replace K.O. with another talent to give us an execute ability "Below 30% you can use Shoot First out of stealth". You could name it "Final Offer" or " ... and last"
  

 

4- Flechette Round :

• Make it permanent
  
• Remove it's cost
  

 

5- Pugnacity :

• It's a weak offensive cooldown, not a defensive one. Lower it to 1 min CD.
  

 

 

About the DPS talent in Scraper and Dirty Fighting trees

 

1- Stopping power :

• Add a 2 sec slow when flechette debuff is applied
  

 

2- Round Two :

• Lower the 10 seconds lockout period when regranting Upper Hand to 8 seconds.
  

 

3- Surprise comback :

• More health given back under pugnacity.
  
• In conjunction with the lowering cooldown would be a better defensive cooldown.
  

 

4- Rolling Punches

• Make it a crit buff instead of alacrity buff.
  
• It this was made to ensure a better energy regen, removing flechette round cost could compensate.
  

 

About the survivability talent in Scraper and Dirty Fighting trees

 

• Add a short defense bonus to Dirty Trickster
  
• Move the instant kolto pack from Scurry to Sawbone tree.
  
• Move Scramble to the dirty fighting tree. Add the 1 sec bonus to dodge.
  
• Lower Hotwired Defence to second tier, making it more accessible.
  
• Remove the sprint from Fight or flight and replace it with a short defence cooldown
  

 

About class utility

 

• Lower Sedative to first tier, making it more accessible.
  
• Rework the talent, making Tranquilizer usable in combat, putting it on a 1 min 30 cooldown, reducing damage done by target for 6 seconds.
  
• Have Sedative debuff and Flash Powder work on operation bosses for a short time.
  

 

About 4 pieces set bonus...

 

Everyone knows that they are laughable at best, please do something about it!

 

• Bring back the 15% crit bonus for backblast.
  
• Reduce the energy cost of Sabotage Charge by 8.
  
• Have blaster whip a 15% change to proc a free Sabotage charge.
  
• Have a tick of wounding shot give a you a 15% chance to get free Shoot First, out of stealt
  
• Chance to proc a free Flyby
  

 

For healing set

• Reduced Kolto pack cost
  
• 5% crit increase on Slow release medpack
  
• 10% that a Slow release med pack will tick twice...
  

 

Those suggestions come from chat i had with some fellow Scoundrel over the last year, they are not entirely from me. Of course i'm not expecting all those changes to be made, but some of them would really help. I hope it will help spark some discussion and help make this class better.

 

Feel free to comment,

 

Cuttsolo , Jedi Covenent

[Racter]

I wish more people would try this class in ranked before making survivability suggestions.

 

All of these ideas are like putting a bandaid on a severed limb. Not even a legit bandaid, a little Dora the explorer bandaid the size of a dime.

 

We need many things, both in terms of mobility and survivability. The latter being the most important. Currently

, there is absolutely no deterrent from training us into the dirt. No shroud, no damage reductions, no avoidance, no cool downs whatsoever. An instant uwm is a neat idea but looking at it realistically it poses two problems. The first being that we won't get it, and the second being that it would not be enough to be beneficial in competitive content. It also does nothing to alleviate our foremost problem of getting trained into the dirt. Every team has a weak link, and no matter what level of player skill, team composition, team synergy, or enemy team comp, etc we are far and away going to be that weak link. Until we get brought up to par survivability wise our lackluster burst, sustained and mobility are quite frankly irrelevant.

 

We must not remain the only melee class with no melee dcds. Otherwise they may as well make that surrender ability literal.

 

Also, they will very likely not give us shoot first out of stealth. Please stop asking for something they already said no to and furthermore something that will be of no benefit to us. I find it especially odd that retaining the knockdown would be considered overpowered considering we don't have low slash. 2 1.5s knockdowns every 15s would be roughly on par with low slash... except still worse (as we clearly must always be) because our kd doesn't stop people with physicsiimmunity effects active while low slash does. Buffing the base damage and lowering the cooldowns of our big hitters is a much safer path to aim for IMO.

Edited November 9, 2013 by Racter

[FoE_Khorne]

Using Racters ideas

I think a 2k increase on base is a bit too large given the damage from FR..soooo these are the changes i purpose.

 

-Increase base damage of backblast/shoot first by 500. (although i dont think this will be needed if Suckerpunch is added to Underdog)

-Make kolto pack instant cast and free (still costs 1 UH) Taking Emergency Medpack in sawbones causes Kolto Pack to cost 25 energy with 1.5sec cast

Scrapper

-Combine Brawlers Grit and Shiffty-eyed into one talent.

-Move Scar tissue from sawbones tree to scrapper in exchange for Surprise comeback. Buff dr from 2/4% to 3/6% and make it reduce AoE damage by 15/30% Also nerf the heal from surprise comeback to 1.5/3% so it isnt too strong in the heal spec.

-Flanking now also reduces the cost of acid blade by 2/4

-Flechette round is now uncleansable

-Slippery Devil Increase energy reduction from 2/4 to 3/6 also allows sabotage charge to be used outside of cover.

-Underdog remove tendon blast and add Sucker punch.

-Round 2 reduce the internal CD to 8 seconds.

-Turn the Tables increase energy return to 6/12

Dirty Fighting

-Concussion In addition to its current effect. Using Quick shot on a target affected by your Sharp bomb now grants 1 stack of Upper Hand. 10 second internal cd

-Combine Med screen with Hotwired Defenses

-Scurry Scamper has a 25/50% chance to reset the CD on Defense Screen this cannot happen more than once every 1 minute 30 seconds.

 

Sawbones

-Reduce the base heal from Emergency Medpack by 100. (doesnt sound like much, but its heal is effected by a couple % increases.)

-Needs a talent to replace Med Screen Ideas?

 

Those changes to scrapper would give us the ability to stay toe to toe in melee in arenas. Increasing our out of stealth dps efficacy with those changes to sucker punch(and the associated procs) would greatly help our sustain in pvp and pve.

Edited November 10, 2013 by FoE_Khorne

[Racter]

Those changes to scrapper would give us the ability to stay toe to toe in melee in arenas. Increasing our out of stealth dps efficacy with those changes to sucker punch(and the associated procs) would greatly help our sustain in pvp and pve.

 

Was considering the FR in my suggestion and not so much considering sab charge as it seems a poor choice to use it in an opener in arena and better off as an execute. Think 9k maul 8k discharge 5-6k shock versus 9k SF 9k BB if both crit plus 3.5k? From FR and something around 5k SF 5k BB 3.5k FR on non crits. Compared to 6k maul 5k discharge 4k shock if none crit (though the odds are heavily in their favor that they will crit).

 

Everything else I'm on board with. Maybe lower the cd on the defense screen proc for DF, even with the set bonus and talent in DF it still doesn't really absorb that much. No particular number in mind but closer to the cooldown (45-60s).

[Umbranox]

I think there should be a talent that causes back blast to have a % chance to proc the use of shoot first regardless of position or stealth. Probably without the knockdown effect, but I feel this would be a nice addition.

[Racter]

Shoot first in combat is not a solution to any problems we currently have and will not happen.

[Elyx]

Well, I've already added my thoughts in other threads, ill paste my best summary here too ( hope this thread gets more attention)

 

Even if they drop cover, if they give us a passive that allows use of Sabo Chg outside of cover, that will allow for the extra DPS burst when needed. Someone else mentioned the use of Sabo while in stealth. not a bad idea, but could push the healing class over into OP territory even more then it is.

 

based on that, they could simply include the use of sabo outside of cover as a scrapper ability. put it high enough in the tree that only scrappers can get. DF is fine w/o it.

 

here's the bulk of my skill ideas. TLDR is...migrate defensive talents out of healing tree, add them to DPS trees, and make some talents more available to the other trees by putting them lower in the tree (and thus useable with leftover points):

 

1) Switch Sedatives and Brawlers grit in the trees. extra endurance for healers isn't bad, and it isn't overkill either. scrapper could use the DR benefit from Sedatives. pop tranq as soon as you "flash" out invisible, before you do any other skill (like shoot first). They could also move Sedatives higher up in the scrapper tree to keep other full specs from getting it (like switching it with Stopping power)

 

2) Switch Scar Tissue with Black market mods. once ST is in the DF tree, switch it with Mortal Wound. this will make Mortal Wound more available to Scrappers (and a bit more consistent DPS). DF gets a bit more DR instead of alacrity (DF is mostly an instant spec anyways...)

 

that would be enough to reduce Healing specs defensive potential (in addition to the cover kill). Here's a few other ideas to get the discussion rolling:

 

perhaps change Sawed off? it really feels like a complete waste of a talent point. 4% boost on a single ability on a medium CD and it's high in the scrapper tree? how about this, "increases damage dealt by Backblast by 4%, and in addition, back blast can be used with no positional requirements, and each use of Backblast reduces the CD of Cool Head by 5 seconds.

 

That gives you some extra personal defensive potential (via the healing), and helps out with backblast because...well, how often in real game do you get to choose when your behind the opponent? This also opens up far more regular use of our top tier talent (which I honestly feel is wasted 3/4 of the time in PvE, can't tell you about PvP, but i suspect its the same). And it doesn't boost shoot first, which for some crazy reason they think is super powerful and needs all those horrid limitations. With this BB becomes a regular part of our rotation no matter what position you are, as does Fletchett round.

 

Note on energy: Not sure which direction to go with this. many peeps like the instant burst of 10 energy when flying fists procs. big downside I've noticed in PvE is that it doesn't aways proc when you need it. On the flip side, sawbones gets a regular and CONTROLLABLE energy return. Yes, it's based on crit, but your default spam (that costs no energy) crits often enough that in a short period of time, its immediate and regular.

 

So how about this? Increase the FF energy proc rate, but change it to an "energy over time". so we get more procs, but it's a bit slower. but you can stack 3x or something like that, so if your going good with the FF, you have a regular energy return.

 

another idea could be to add a CD reduction to Cool head. drop it by 40 seconds. simple and easy. 80 seconds between uses instead of 120. These are generic ideas...I prefer the talent changes I listed above.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Elyx

[kcon]

These are just a few changes that i feel could re-amp the scrapper spec in PvP. BW has said consistently that the ability to use stealth and DA is the same as having a defensive CD such as Reactive Shield or Saber-ward. I think in order for this to be true several of our abilities need to be slightly redesigned. I'm going to combine several Shadow/ Assassin abilities to make this happen.

 

Right now: Sneak

Increases your stealth level by 15 for 8 seconds. Only usable in stealth mode

 

My Suggestion: Sneak

Increases your stealth level by 15 for 8 seconds and increases your chance to resist Force and tech attacks by 100%. Only usable in stealth mode.

 

Right now:

Exiting stealth mode now finishes the cooldown of Sneak, and Sneak can now be used out of stealth mode, increasing movement speed by 50% for 6 seconds. In addition, Disappearing Act no longer reduces healing dealt and received.

 

My Suggestion:

Exiting stealth mode now finishes the cooldown of Sneak, and Sneak can now be used out of stealth mode, increasing movement speed by 50% for 6 seconds. In addition, Disappearing Act grants the Sneak buff for 8 seconds, and no longer reduces healing dealt and received.

 

As a scrapper maintaining your stealth is the most important thing in the game, and nothing beats that feeling of taking someone completely off guard with a well placed SF. The sad fact is that the amount of splash AOE and AOE CC in this game often screws up this important aspect of our play style.

Edited November 13, 2013 by kcon
clarification

[QuiveringPotato]

The sad fact is that the amount of splash AOE and AOE CC in this game often screws up this important aspect of our play style.

 

That, and like 70% of the time you use DA, you get pulled right back out of stealth from DoT's, and you're pretty screwed unless you have your dodge proc up with scamper. I think it would be nice if DA cleared all negative effects upon use.

[Haystak]

Over two weeks, and the release of rateds season 1, I was hoping for some update(even just news) before the release,now im just hoping this doesnt end like the last four threads like this ended up.

 

I will continue to monitor this for another couple weeks, and keep banging my head with my scoundrel, but Im very close to just going heals, or switching to my shadow for dps roles in solos now.

 

So heres for hoping.

[Racter]

Over two weeks, and the release of rateds season 1, I was hoping for some update(even just news) before the release,now im just hoping this doesnt end like the last four threads like this ended up.

 

I will continue to monitor this for another couple weeks, and keep banging my head with my scoundrel, but Im very close to just going heals, or switching to my shadow for dps roles in solos now.

 

So heres for hoping.

 

Nah man clearly we're all playing it wrong and it's totally fine. jklol

 

It's too bad bioware doesn't show specs on the leaderboards, though I'm sure they can see it in their internal data. It should be pretty obvious to them at this point that DPS Scoundrels have zero (0) arena representation on teams and probably still pretty **** in solo queues. I honestly admit I support the thread to ban DPS Scoundrels and OPs from Solo Rated until Bioware buffs them to not be totally worthless. It's terribly unfun for us currently anyway and it's an almost guaranteed loss of rating for the rest of our team. Not really a good situation to be in.

 

Personally, I'll give up Solo queue rateds on my OP and Sco in exchange for everyone else doing the same. Not trying to tank my rating on classes that matter because other people can't realize their specs are totally worthless in competitive pvp lol

[Technohic]

Hey everyone,

 

As you are no doubt aware, we are being careful in how fast and how drastic we make Class changes. Although we are starting that journey in Game Update 2.5, that is certainly not all of the changes that will happen in the future. As a part of that, one of the things we agree on is that DPS Scoundrels could use a little bit of love.

 

The reason I am making this thread, is that we are curious on what your ideas might be for your class! This is specifically for Scrapper and Dirty Fighting. What changes would you like to see to those specs to give them a little bit of help in PvE and PvP.

 

I am going to be combing through this thread and passing your feedback on to the Combat team. I do want to add a disclaimer to this. Just because a suggestion is made in this thread, or even agreed on by multiple posters, in no way implies it will be put into the game. The purpose of this is to share ideas. At the end of the day it will still come down to the decisions of the Combat Team! This is just an opportunity to add some player insight to the discussion.

 

If you are more of the Operative persuasion, there is a separate thread for that, here.

 

-eric

 

Eric.

 

Why isn't this stickied and where have you been on these threads?

 

Creating the thread never to be seen again looks like a cheap political move, while just a little effort to sticky and a nod and wink every now and then to just show you are watching does far more.

[Haystak]

Eric.

 

Why isn't this stickied and where have you been on these threads?

 

Creating the thread never to be seen again looks like a cheap political move, while just a little effort to sticky and a nod and wink every now and then to just show you are watching does far more.

 

 

My prediction is they will say they have changes, and will implement them after the winter holidays, and will use the xmas holiday standown period as there excuse.. They wont tell you what the changes are, because there really wont be any. January/Febuary come around and what it will end up being is they will change something about the giggle, fixing the roll(but not really, they will probably break it some more just to bring down some of the immortal healer chatter), and change some class quest bugs.

 

At which point the new scoundrel community(since half of the current community will have moved on to something else) will freak out, and BW will put out another "we want your feedback" thread. It will pan out the same way, and BW will rinse repeat for continued effect.

 

This has been the way of the scoundrel since 2.0 came out.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Haystak

[Technohic]

My prediction is they will say they have changes, and will implement them after the winter holidays, and will use the xmas holiday standown period as there excuse.. They wont tell you what the changes are, because there really wont be any. January/Febuary come around and what it will end up being is they will change something about the giggle, fixing the roll(but not really, they will probably break it some more just to bring down some of the immortal healer chatter), and change some class quest bugs.

 

At which point the new scoundrel community(since half of the current community will have moved on to something else) will freak out, and BW will put out another "we want your feedback" thread. It will pan out the same way, and BW will rinse repeat for continued effect.

 

This has been the way of the scoundrel since 2.0 came out.

 

lol You're probably right. Guess if I am going to play my scoundrel, I will need to learn to go sawbones.

[KhanByo]

Scrapper:

 

Flechette round needs to go back to how it was at launch. We need that increased armor penetration. BW panicked and over nerfed an ability that only seemed OP because at the time pvp had click relics, adrenals, and 50's in pvp gear fighting lowbies without expertise. When 50's got their own bracket on top of the relic and adrenal nerfs, the nerf to flechette round became all the more apparent and showed the class wasn't as strong as BW wanted to believe. Now, two years later, our burst is so inconsistent and if we don't get a good opener we are screwed. At least assassins get recklessness which at least gives them consistent burst with discharge. The least you can do is buff our armor penetration back to the way it used to be.

 

Seeing as how I picked up the game during the Summer of last year, I can't say I know what this is like - I've heard stories - but I think if BW is going with this whole "sneaky, slippery, 'glass cannon' approach" to the Scrapper tree, then I don't think this is a bad idea. Other dps classes (Combat Sentinels come to mind) get 100% AP buffs, so why is this so scary for scrappy scoundrels who thrive on burst damage? Because of stealth? Stahp. Either hold true to the idea or don't try to pass it off a certain way. You could argue that knock-down makes them more dangerous, but again... BW is going for this glass cannon image for scrappers, then I'd say this design is fair game. Either keep the Knock Down from KO, or make KO auto crit. Both does seem a bit overkill, but definitely bring the AP back up to 100%.

 

Give us a proc similar to assassins duplicity that lets us use shoot first out of stealth. I'd prefer if we could always use it out of stealth but I think a proc is a reasonable middle ground. I also feel that this proc should increase the damage of shoot first. While maul without duplicity costs a substantial amount of force, this ability can be used no matter what and it hits harder than both shoot first and backblast and its getting buffed. Topple that with assassins having better survivability its almost an insult that neither shoot first or backblast can hit as hard as maul.

 

Eh... I agree with the idea that SF is the opener. Unless you're going back into stealth, most instances are fine with 1 SF in a fight. However, I do agree with this idea of having a proc similar to "duplicity" - maul already does more damage (w/o a CD). Even with the high force cost, it still doesn't seem fair that once the most depended on moves for the tree has that much of a CD when another tree of a similar playstyle (deception sins and infiltration shadows) have NO CD on such a core move. If that means "flanking" needs to be reworked for that proc, fine - burst damage typically means going through a lot of energy quickly, so in the grand scheme of things 10 energy for a BB can be mitigated if you know what you're doing.

 

Give us a finisher, or at least a talent that lets us do more damage at 30% hp. Maybe tie it to flechette round.

 

OMGAHHHH, yes! It always made me sad that all the other classes had some sort of execution. As a burst class, why don't scoundrels have one? It seems weird that they don't. As far as names go, I recall the old execution skills that the smuggler/agent classes used to have (Cheap Shot/Headshot and Eviscerate/Headshot). Why not just bring back Cheap Shot and Eviscerate for smuggs/agents? Easy fix.

 

In general scrapper is a burst spec with sub par/inconsistent burst and even worse survivability...A spec with low survivability should have high burst. The spec needs to be changed to have strong consistent burst to make up for how squishy it is. Which is why I don't ask for increased survivability because I feel we should be squishy.

 

Exactly. If we're supposed to be bursty glass cannons, then MAKE the necessary changes - yes, scoundrels/operatives will hit hard, but at the cost of going down super easily. It's just not fair to pass off the class as bursty, then give them unreliable burst AND bad defense

 

Other possible changes for scrapper include: having Underdog/MKB reflect surge increases for sucker punch/lacerate. Also, regarding Rolling Punches/Calculated Frenzy: if the point of these skills was to make the attacks faster and energy come back a bit quicker, then I think the talent should go to a max of 10% alacrity - 6% is just a lackluster halfway point. I like the idea of attacking faster/gaining energy back quicker to keep throwing out more hits, but it seems like there could be more there. If not, go with the other suggestions for this talent - more crit or power for that duration. The alacrity thing was an fine idea (fitting with the class) - just needs a bit more. Surprise Comeback/Revitalizers? Go back to the original design please - before, it was worth speccing into. Now, it's just a waste. Finally, Sneak/Ghost: with scamper/exfiltrate, this talent has very limited utility as it currently stands. Make it into a possible defense boost when used OoS? Could definitely stand to lose the speed boost here.

 

Dirty fighting:

 

Honestly I feel the damage is fine on this spec. Some QoL changes to cull and UH would be nice but overall this spec is underrated by many as it hits pretty hard imo. The real issue with this spec is unlike scrapper where you need to rely on your opener to survive this spec spends most of its time out of stealth and doesn't have a burst opener. It's set up to cull is fairly long and since you spend pretty much all your time out of stealth I feel that the class needs survivability.

 

DF has some OK perks like the threat drop breaking roots which is nice, but I feel it needs more than that. Defense screen and dodge are both kind of a joke right now, so I feel that either defense screen should get buffed or that the talent that reduces the CD of dodge in sawbones be moved to dirty fighting(because lets face it, the heal spec is broke and don't need any talents like that).

 

Yeah... Dirty Fighting is more or less good where it stands - as quoted, it just needs a bit of a survivability boost, but that's more or less the theme of the entire class, isn't it?

 

There is no mistake. Stealthing is a play style that many enjoy. The only people who do not like stealthers are those who refuse to learn how to counter them. Multiple classes have ways to deal with. Stealth scan pops them out, aoe's pop them out, taunts prevent them from using sap, snipers can spot them from a mile away. You have tools to deal with them. Learn how to utilize those tools.

 

You take away stealth and you take away an entire playstyle and I guarantee if that were to ever happen, I and many others will leave this game permanently.

 

Exactly-right, sir. Stealth itself is a playstyle that many (myself included) love and enjoy. Don't like the class? Find out ways to counter them. I laugh when see all these other threads talking about how defeating a stealth class is difficult - part of playing MMOs is learning what you have trouble with and finding ways to overcome it - if every class has the same appeal/strengths/weaknesses, then why bother differentiating?

 

Anyway, the entire point of this thread was to think of ways to increase Scoundrel/Operative DPS. The biggest spec on the two ACs that need this are scrappers and concealment-ers. See the above changes - my main is a scoundrel raised on scrapper dps, so I personally take the continual gimps to the class hard, but work to overcome them and do well in pvp.

 

Also (last rabbit trail, I swear), BW if you're nerfing the cover mechanic for scoundrels, then make everything that's cover-dependent NOT cover-dependent - saying you never intended scoundrels to use it after lvl 10/promotion while pinning abilities that require it is SUCH a contradiction. But let me stop myself here - that's a whole 'nother discussion.

[Sillensumbra]

There are already a lot of classes with huge defensive cooldowns and nice consistent damadge i think the scoundrel was suposed to work more like a huge mass of spike damadge that kills the target and then dies, of course with huge damadge they have to be squishy and if they actually get their shoot first backblast blaster whip etc.. to crit 100% of the times then they get their kill, of course some say that he shouldn't be trying to bring down a full HP player and instead focus on low or medium health players for the fnishing blow and that is also fine but the idea i have on the scrapper is that he should be a class that kills that target and then dies. just my opinion. for that to work i would do some kind of mechanic that would enable the scoundrell to hit at least the 2 first attacks at 100% critical rate like an utility skill that has 3 minutes cooldown or wtv, these days it is very hard for even a proper scoundrell to kill a turret defender fast enough for the cap to be possible, of course assuming that everyone has the same level of skill im only saying this becouse when a scrapper goes for a solo kill he only has one chanse and he needs to do it rigth or else no point doing it at all so he needs to crit on he´s first 2 skills at least and the way crit is rigth now there is no point stacking it. when i compare infiltration shadows to scrappers i think the shadow has more dps capacity to bring down a solo defender while still having the best cooldowns that should not be the case, the scrapper should have the most dps but lowest survivability of all the classes, at least in scrapper build of course.

 

but as i said this is just my opinion.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Sillensumbra

[Haystak]

Wall of text ending with, but as i said this is just my opinion.

 

The whole problem with having enough burst to solo the lone node defender is that to have that kind of burst, you would need to be able to take someone down in 12 seconds. Now as much as I would like to justify that this indeed would make us viable in tons of sitiuations, there is currently nothing in place, that would in turn to prevent us from taking that awesome burst and going mid, and just wrecking people, or even defending a node, and picking off random people as they come to the node, at then there is the point where we just become in demand everywhere, and the whole packs of stunlocking operatives would make a return, and nobody wants that(think of the children)

 

the time it takes to reinforce nodes in this game is way way to low, to really support a stealth attack in high caliber play.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Haystak

[Racter]

This is probably the fifth time I've said this between the two threads and I'm probably not gonna bother anymore but this is the bottom line.

 

REGS. DO. NOT. MATTER.

 

 

Stop looking at class balance through the scope of warzones. They are wholly irrelevant to all balance discussions. We need to be planning around 4s, and no amount of damage increase is going to make scrapper or lethality relevant there. We need damage reduction. Period.

[Haystak]

This is probably the fifth time I've said this between the two threads and I'm probably not gonna bother anymore but this is the bottom line.

 

REGS. DO. NOT. MATTER.

 

 

Stop looking at class balance through the scope of warzones. They are wholly irrelevant to all balance discussions. We need to be planning around 4s, and no amount of damage increase is going to make scrapper or lethality relevant there. We need damage reduction. Period.

 

You can say it as many times as you want, but it doesnt make it true. More people play regs than rateds right now

 

Not to mention they went to a free to play model, and barred non subscribers from playing in rateds. SO case in point, they do matter. Maybe not to you or me, but to the people making money off of this game they do, since they are making it off of the F2P people just as much as us right now(assumption).

 

Agree with the balance point though. you cant really balance around wz's anymore, since te level of player skill is random.

Edited November 23, 2013 by Haystak