PVP isn't failing. It's fun. Whiners are out of touch. Harsh words, but true!

[HaoZhao]

A loud, vocal minority is still a minority. The minority in question for this topic is the group of players who think that 55 guild vs. guild matches are the only PVP content in the whole game. It is with deep regret that I must inform these individuals that guild vs. guild matches make up a tiny minority of the PVP matches that are taking place in the game right now, at any given time. In fact these types of matches are such a tiny number compared to the solo queue matches that they're almost irrelevant! The idea that PVP changes should solely be based around this minuscule minority because they whine on this board the loudest is nothing short of pure insanity (forgive the hyperbole).

 

If you play PUG matches without whiner guilds being involved, you'll see that good players are making every class and every specialization work. I've been in 30-54 recently (yes, there is PVP before 55, didn't you know?) and I've seen DPS operatives ending the match with the highest damage and kills out of everyone. I've finished matches with the highest DPS as a madness sorcerer (without creeping terror because I'm far away from 45, might I add).

 

You people take the fun out of these matches yourselves and then blame BioWare that you're not enjoying PVP. War zones are not real wars and shouldn't be played as such. I know I'm quickly crossing the line by trying to inform some of you that Star Wars isn't a substitute for real life, but I want to be honest. If you're playing war zones with seven other people on vent/mumble/whatever and you're coldly calculating exactly which classes need to be killed first before the match even starts, you've ruined the game for yourself. Don't blame BioWare. Blame your awful guild. It's similar to people who memorize the exact solution to win any game of Checkers and then complain that Checkers isn't fun anymore.

 

For me, I love the randomness of PUG war zones. I don't know if my team or the enemy team will be great or awful. Outside of "incoming" most communication is unspoken and good players separate themselves from bad by being able to read subtle signals telling them it's time to attack this node or take down this healer. I can honestly say that I enjoy myself in around 90% of matches.

 

While I'm sure some people will respond to this by dismissing me out of hand, like shouting "troll" as a mean to avoid making a substantive argument, I want you all to ask yourselves a question. If your way is better, than why am I having fun and why do you spend your time complaining? Feel free to prove me wrong and respond with an intelligent argument that doesn't rely on passive aggressiveness or flames as a crutch. This isn't "trolling," this is me trying to help you guys understand why PVP makes you so miserable.

 

Of course, don't misunderstand me. I understand that there are serious class balancing issues (mercenary healers having heat problems in long fights, sorcerers being road kill in arenas, etc,) but I don't see these issues as ones that "ruin" war zones. If you're a good player, you'll make it work to a satisfactory level. Will your mercenary healer break world records when it comes to HPS? No, but you can do well. Isn't that enough to have fun?

[MasterFeign]

tl:dr Good players will remain good, bad players will remain bad.

 

Also you're talking to a wall, or w/e that phrase is, so this post is moot.

[cycao]

tl:dr Good players will remain good, bad players will remain bad.

 

Also you're talking to a wall, or w/e that phrase is, so this post is moot.

 

They should change it to where you cant engage combat without first issuing a compliment directed towards another player and you must apologize after delivering a killing blow.

[Zican]

I'll let you in on a secret. Every MMO's forum talks about how the PvP in the game is terrible a failing, and have so since the launch of said game.

[MasterBLASTERpl]

Of course, don't misunderstand me. I understand that there are serious class balancing issues (mercenary healers having heat problems in long fights, sorcerers being road kill in arenas, etc,) but I don't see these issues as ones that "ruin" war zones. If you're a good player, you'll make it work to a satisfactory level. Will your mercenary healer break world records when it comes to HPS? No, but you can do well. Isn't that enough to have fun?

 

Oh it's fun - let's say loud and clear what's the most funny part of this wonderland called SWTOR PvP.

 

The best part is the new part. Arenas. But from the beginning.

They are great, especially this when you will end up 3vs4, this is just where you can show how "good" player you really are. Surely you can take them all, I mean if you are *really* a good player you should take them solo, by clicking, without the mouse. You can do it, every one can.

But it's get better. Let's say everything is great, 4vs4 (whoa!) but you are one of 4 dps (2 are sorcs heheh) vs tank guardian 2 healers scoundrels and one sentinel dps - coz you know, matchmaking is working better then US gov during shut-down. Once again you can prevail against those terribads and carry your team to the speechless victory.

Oh - you didn't, well I guess you are really, really bad and this is serious l2p issue.

 

Well so maybe let's go into details (a little bit).

Some folks here tried to educate me, but I'm really, really bad terribad sorc healer. Instead of healing that I thought I should, I am supposed to be a bait. You know, I should running like a rabbit around arenas. They said every second I'm on the run my team gets a profit, every second I try to do something stupid, aka stand still and heal (coz, I can't no stand still and heal), my team gets a loss. Class balance is great.

 

But seriously. You are right. PvP is fun. PvP is fun when you will be constantly dodging Arenas, admit that sorcs/sages won't be fixed and you will run some FOTY class like mara, sniper and soon (but not soon™) also deception assassin (tho i must admit they are good now, but they will be great)

Edited October 27, 2013 by MasterBLASTERpl

[HaoZhao]

Oh it's fun - let's say loud and clear what's the most funny part of this wonderland called SWTOR PvP. The best part is the new part. Arenas. But from the beginning. They are great, especially this when you will end up 3vs4, this is just where you can show how "good" player you really are. Surely you can take them all, I mean if you are *really* a good player you should take them solo, by clicking, without the mouse. You can do it, every one can But it's get better. Let's say everything is great, 4vs4 (whoa!) but you are one of 4 dps (2 are sorcs heheh) vs tank guardian 2 healers scoundrels and one sentinel dps - coz you know, matchmaking is working better then US gov during shut-down. Once again you can prevail against those terribads and carry your team to the speechless victory. Oh - you didn't, well I guess you are really, really bad and this is serious l2p issue. Well so maybe let's go into details (a little bit). Some folks here tried to educate me, but I'm really, really bad terribad sorc healer. Instead of healing that I thought I should, I am supposed to be a bait. You know, I should running like a rabbit around arenas. They said every second I'm on the run my team gets a profit, every second I try to do something stupid, aka stand still and heal (coz, I can't no stand still and heal), my team gets a loss. Class balance is great. But seriously. You are right. PvP is fun. PvP is fun when you will be constantly dodging Arenas, admit that sorcs/sages won't be fixed and you will run some FOTY class like mara, sniper and soon (but not soon™) also deception assassin (tho i must admit they are good now, but they will be great)

 

Well, the challenge was to post without resorting to a lot of passive aggressiveness and you failed. Revel in your failure! Yes, dear. I acknowledged that there are some arena balancing issues right now. It was in the part of the post that you forgot to respond to! BTW, I play arenas on my madness sorcerer and I do very well. I happen to be a very good madness sorcerer though. I am of the opinion though that you shouldn't need to be a very good player to have fun. Mediocre sorcerers who don't know their classes should be able to enjoy PVP as well, so I hope that they tweak arena balancing soon. There's not much more I can say here to comfort you.

[KamujinKravshera]

Oh it's fun - let's say loud and clear what's the most funny part of this wonderland called SWTOR PvP.

 

The best part is the new part. Arenas. But from the beginning.

They are great, especially this when you will end up 3vs4, this is just where you can show how "good" player you really are. Surely you can take them all, I mean if you are *really* a good player you should take them solo, by clicking, without the mouse. You can do it, every one can.

But it's get better. Let's say everything is great, 4vs4 (whoa!) but you are one of 4 dps (2 are sorcs heheh) vs tank guardian 2 healers scoundrels and one sentinel dps - coz you know, matchmaking is working better then US gov during shut-down. Once again you can prevail against those terribads and carry your team to the speechless victory.

Oh - you didn't, well I guess you are really, really bad and this is serious l2p issue.

 

Well so maybe let's go into details (a little bit).

Some folks here tried to educate me, but I'm really, really bad terribad sorc healer. Instead of healing that I thought I should, I am supposed to be a bait. You know, I should running like a rabbit around arenas. They said every second I'm on the run my team gets a profit, every second I try to do something stupid, aka stand still and heal (coz, I can't no stand still and heal), my team gets a loss. Class balance is great.

 

But seriously. You are right. PvP is fun. PvP is fun when you will be constantly dodging Arenas, admit that sorcs/sages won't be fixed and you will run some FOTY class like mara, sniper and soon (but not soon™) also deception assassin (tho i must admit they are good now, but they will be great)

 

I won a 3v4 the other day. It was quite fun.

[Kerensk]

I won a 3v4 the other day. It was quite fun.

I'm one of the road kill sorcs and I win in arenas 3/4s of the time. Imagine how lucky I am to have been carried through a match over 20 times now!

Even more lucky I had the highest DPS in many matches!

And the first or second highest healing!

Since apparently I'm the worst class in an unbalanced warzone I must be the most lucky guy in the world. I better join in on complaining in the forums before my luck runs out!

[AdmiralParmesan]

When the developers seem apathetic to class problems that have widely been discussed the player base becomes apathetic, and thus they move on or stop really trying.

 

It's that simple.

[KamujinKravshera]

When the developers seem apathetic to class problems that have widely been discussed the player base becomes apathetic, and thus they move on or stop really trying.

 

It's that simple.

 

I don't know you, so please don't take my comments as a personal attack. That said, there are a handful of really average players on Pot5 who think they are exceptional, popular, and special. Mostly, for exploiting the crap out of the terrible 8v8 system.

 

I beat these players in ranked solo regularly with my broken sorc healer. For me, the game is more fun than it's ever been.

 

Bioware has really messed a lot of things up, but all in all. I like the state of the game better now than 6 months ago.

Edited October 28, 2013 by KamujinKravshera

[Endel]

It is with deep regret that I must inform these individuals that guild vs. guild matches make up a tiny minority of the PVP matches that are taking place in the game right now, at any given time. In fact these types of matches are such a tiny number compared to the solo queue matches that they're almost irrelevant!

 

I don't disagree but...you seem to be so certain about this that you must have numbers to back this up?

 

If not...well you join the group of people you write about but instead of saying how PvP is failing, you just say the opposite.

[MidichIorian]

You're using madness sorc in lowbie as some form of evidence when it's one of the best classes there.

 

Also, lowbie? People arent complaining about lowbie. Try sorc or operative DPS in the solo ranked queue and get back to us.

[Raansu]

lol lowbies.

[mattycutts]

i agree and disagree with you on your post.

 

that minority you talk about that i am not party to currently do matter and are just as important as any other group of the pvpers.

 

basically thats all i have to say that is negitive towards your post, i personally love the pvp and pug pvp, yeah odd day wished i never hit that queue button coz of some of the teams i got put in but overal i love this game, i love the pvp and the game now is far better than when it was released.

 

same thing in other things youll always find people complaining about x,y and z but u rarely find the good posts.

 

i play a sniper or a sor, and snipers are easy kills in arenas but i still enjoy the games

[HBMalachorfive]

Ok OP if I am to take you seriously then here is what I offer.

In your post you mention minority or perhaps a percentage if you will. The small percentage of good players enjoy their guild vs guild matches and rightly so, they are paying subscribers so they can do as they please. Here's the catch. The good players or even the great players of this game rarely post on these forums. Yes good players do post on here quite often but that is only sc****** the surface.

What I'm getting at is that you are equating that the QQ on the forums directly relate to the top tier pvp guilds and how they feel about the state of pvp. Well I'm here to tell you that your wrong. Most of the QQ comes from the players who know nothing about their class or their own capabilities. I think you'll find that the top pvp guilds rarely QQ on these forums as they know what is broken so thus they avoid it in game rather than coming on here and crying about it as they know it will make no difference. It all comes from some poor little attention starved 13 year old that thinks his lolsmashing Mara should one shot someone on the other side of the map with no LoS performing a backflip whilst clicking and keyboard turning.

At the end of the day people enjoy pvp in different ways and they are free to do so

[shocwave]

if its so good, why did the game go f2p......this is moot

[KamujinKravshera]

if its so good, why did the game go f2p......this is moot

 

Went F2P a long ago. Your point?

[Arunas]

Its not failing, if you count normal warzones as these are active on most servers and while derpy with lot of clueless/bad people, random team compositions and strengths and FOTY domination every single other PvP aspect of SWTOR is a flop:

 

Open World PvP essentially non-existant.

Ilum reworked several times and finally removed.

8v8 rwz delayed, no cross-servers, stagnant, dead on most servers before removal and finally removed.

Arenas no cross-server, no balance, dead on non-PvP servers already, eventually will stop getting any further development until game dies as it is pointless investment at this point.

Space pvp not enough populations to sustain 12v12, most likely not enough interest in this, DOA without cross-server.

1,6mil of players that quit the game/went F2P (for F2P no participation in rwz and weekly nwz limits) is not a flop either?

Edited October 28, 2013 by Arunas

[Raansu]

if its so good, why did the game go f2p......this is moot

 

You mean like every mmo that isn't WoW?

[LtBombshell]

So wait.... does this mean that 95% of the community doesn't actually hate SWTOR's PvP?

[Taankjr]

Yeah, being limited to the same warzones and arenas is very entertaining. Although arenas are something of a new kind here, complete lack of world pvp is sorrowful. At least they are going to bring gree back.

[AdmiralParmesan]

PvP isn't failing? Tell that to my friends list of pvpers who no longer play.

[cashogy_reborn]

The number of people that find the game fun has been on the decline basically since the game launched......

[DarrelK]

World PVP is created by the community itself. The Red Eclipse, a PvE server, has open world pvp on Oricon every Sunday and we are having quite a lot of fun. Of course, the fact remains that the engine has some problems when you have 50-60 players fighting and droping AoEs like there is no tomorrow.

So it is not BioWare's fault that most players are pathetic carebears or simply do not enjoy open world PvP.

Maybe they could add some incentive for World PVP, like having a PVP area on every planet (or every planet after Tatooine, for example), an area that everyone should go through for some quest or whatever. Also they can make a PVP daily area.

But since this matters only for PvE servers, there will be a lot of QQ probably, since most people don't like the idea that they are at WAR with the other side and prefer to fight third parties instead, and they don't really have the guts to fight real players in the open.

 

TL:DR, World PVP is community problem.

[AdmiralParmesan]

World PVP is created by the community itself. The Red Eclipse, a PvE server, has open world pvp on Oricon every Sunday and we are having quite a lot of fun. Of course, the fact remains that the engine has some problems when you have 50-60 players fighting and droping AoEs like there is no tomorrow.

So it is not BioWare's fault that most players are pathetic carebears or simply do not enjoy open world PvP.

Maybe they could add some incentive for World PVP, like having a PVP area on every planet (or every planet after Tatooine, for example), an area that everyone should go through for some quest or whatever. Also they can make a PVP daily area.

But since this matters only for PvE servers, there will be a lot of QQ probably, since most people don't like the idea that they are at WAR with the other side and prefer to fight third parties instead, and they don't really have the guts to fight real players in the open.

 

TL:DR, World PVP is community problem.

 

Yes bioware removed illum pvp because of a community problem

 

Besides the facts that all of the worlds that you level on are designed so that as you quest you won't run into the enemy faction. You have to face the facts, the developers didn't really want any world pvp despite this being,....you know....a game about the empire vs republic.

Edited October 28, 2013 by AdmiralParmesan