Scoundrel/operatives changes ftw

[Aussie_ay]

With the changes to crouch, you will now have to eat 2 interrupts from many classes that utilize leap/pull(due to ability mechanics), also players will no longer have to knockback or CC you to be enable the abilities use.

 

As small as this change looks, this will change the core play style of the class.

 

One of the many frustrations of playing certain classes is not being able to reach a scoundrel/operative for the simple fact that leap/pulls are not usable

 

Well that's my 2 credits on the changes

[svdiachkov]

God, what idiots do balance in SWTOR

[Grimoir]

You act like this change is the end of the world. Just pillar-hump like every other 'world-class' Scoundrel/Operative does.

[Yamahara]

I was hoping they would buff Concealment. I want my 10k crit for hidden strike.

[Zoom_VI]

I'm still trying to figure out what ability a scoundrel uses that the OP is worried about having interrupted

[Vember]

I'm still trying to figure out what ability a scoundrel uses that the OP is worried about having interrupted

 

LOL that's what I was thinking.

[ripamorame]

I'm still trying to figure out what ability a scoundrel uses that the OP is worried about having interrupted

You posted on another thread and i explained you clearly no idea what purpose cover has to a dps op at all. Again it helps with being out of stealth as its hard to get back into as it stops warriors from initiating as you can mitigate a warriors root and rage gen by being in cover and doing some initial range damage via probe dart snipe otherwise they could leap -> ravage which makes you take the initial damage and more often than not pop a defensive. Bads will never understand i guess. Also as a dps i can heal a little instead of them leaping and hitting 10k lol smash.

Edited October 18, 2013 by ripamorame

[nitroyoshi]

so now that cover is usless, can EP be used out of cover?

[Cretinus]

I'm still trying to figure out what ability a scoundrel uses that the OP is worried about having interrupted

 

Travel to fleet?

[BobaFaceroll]

so now that cover is usless, can EP be used out of cover?

 

Other than using EP it is indeed useless.

You still need useless cover to use EP.

[LaVall]

Ehh, I rarely cast a heal anyways and I'm almost always on the move weaving in and out of LoS. It's a nerf, but a small one. If they wanted to bring this class back to what it was prior to 2.0 they need to bring the energy cost of slow release medpack/kolto probe back to where it used to be to force us to use diagnostic scan to recover energy once again.

[Raansu]

I was hoping they would buff Concealment. I want my 10k crit for hidden strike.

 

It would be nice if shoot first was at least in line with the damage maul can do...Not only does maul crit harder but it can be used out of stealth and its going to get a damage increase in 2.5....*sigh*

[snaplemouton]

It's fine guys, it's to help those poor warrior leap back to us after we knocked them back with our blaster whip.

[TonyDragonflame]

Healing output from operatives healers must be nerfed to -20%/-30%; healing of mercs must be buffed +20%.

[doodbro]

Ehh, I rarely cast a heal anyways and I'm almost always on the move weaving in and out of LoS. It's a nerf, but a small one. If they wanted to bring this class back to what it was prior to 2.0 they need to bring the energy cost of slow release medpack/kolto probe back to where it used to be to force us to use diagnostic scan to recover energy once again.

 

i agree but the problem is right now there is so much derpy burst, you could never stand still long enough to get some mana. operatives spamming hots and people taunting are about the only thing that is separating us from totally cretinous play style.

[Raansu]

Healing output from operatives healers must be nerfed to -20%/-30%; healing of mercs must be buffed +20%.

 

Merc healing output is fine...It's their resource management that needs to be fixed. Its the same thing with OP's. It's not their healing output that is the issue. Its the fact that they never run out of energy. There has to be a fine line of balance between output and resources.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Raansu

[TonyDragonflame]

Merc healing output is fine...It's their resource management that needs to be fixed. Its the same thing with OP's. It's not their healing output that is the issue. Its the fact that they never run out of energy. There has to be a fine line of balance between output and resources.

 

Most wz I saw operatives outheal mercs in 1.5-2x times at least. It must be fixed. Operatives unkillable indeed - except rage maras. Mercs need some love.

Edited October 18, 2013 by TonyDragonflame

[snaplemouton]

Merc healing output is fine...It's their resource management that needs to be fixed. Its the same thing with OP's. It's not their healing output that is the issue. Its the fact that they never run out of energy. There has to be a fine line of balance between output and resources.

 

And that is something people need to understand too...

Scoundrel got 2 resources. Energy and upper hand.

A scoundrel can run out of energy. Saying otherwise is silly.

 

The scoundrel energy prevent us from using scamper too much without hurting our healing output by making kolto cloud unavailable due to lack of energy. If we drop down that 60 energy mark, kolto cloud will make us drop ever lower until we can't regenerate anymore.

Then we get 2 solutions.

- Cool head on a 2 minutes cooldown.

- Diagnostic scan. But that is only if you specced into it.

Using Diagnostic scan is cutting our mobility entirely, forcing us to stand still when the whole concept of scoundrel is to be able to move all the time.

Also, when we are allowed to free cast, using underworld medecine and kolto pack is needed else we won't be able to keep up with all the damage done since our HoTs aren't enough to keep anyone alive. If we cast then we will go out of energy after only 2-3 casts.

 

To resume, we have energy to manage. But this energy is either low cost for constant output or extremely high cost for high output on a short period. Being out of energy severely hurt our constant output with the unusable kolto cloud and doesn't allow us to scamper. Therefor, we can't have high output on short period as often as other healers.

Increasing the energy cost on our constant healing will simply make high output on short period impossible to do.

 

On top of it, we have to manage our upper hands. And no we don't have unlimited upper hands.

[Technohic]

Most wz I saw operatives outheal mercs in 1.5-2x times at least. It must be fixed. Operatives unkillable indeed - except rage maras. Mercs need some love.

 

Its a combination of resource management discrepency along with number of channel requirements, and escapability vs survivability, which one really seems better than the other in both cases

[metalfenix]

Most wz I saw operatives outheal mercs in 1.5-2x times at least. It must be fixed. Operatives unkillable indeed - except rage maras. Mercs need some love.

 

Man, their numbers are behind...because...they can't heal at all.

 

Sorcsages being really squishy, and having a tight force management, and mercmandos because they have to put up with the CC/stun/interrupt fest.

 

People don't seem to understand that even if you nerf 20% the HPS of scouperatives, we still have the lead because we actually manage to heal a bit on wz/arenas. In PvE, where sorcssages and mercmandos don't have to put up with the CC/stun/interrupt pvp festival, they put amazing HPS numbers, and sorcsages are actually the healer kings of operations.

 

Even though, I've seen some very skilled commando healers on warzones, that put my healing numbers on shame, I admire those guys. whenever I see a mando healer on my team, I always cross heal with him to help.

[Raansu]

Most wz I saw operatives outheal mercs in 1.5-2x times at least. It must be fixed. Operatives unkillable indeed - except rage maras. Mercs need some love.

 

You're not getting the picture here...OP's don't get higher numbers because they have stronger healing output. They get higher numbers because of the lack of resource management and never really having to cast abilities unless the situation is really dire or they just need a quick TA. A merc has to be extremely careful with heat and will generate too much fairly easily. An OP can be completely reckless and pretty much never run out.

 

And that is something people need to understand too...

Scoundrel got 2 resources. Energy and upper hand.

A scoundrel can run out of energy. Saying otherwise is silly.

 

The scoundrel energy prevent us from using scamper too much without hurting our healing output by making kolto cloud unavailable due to lack of energy. If we drop down that 60 energy mark, kolto cloud will make us drop ever lower until we can't regenerate anymore.

Then we get 2 solutions.

- Cool head on a 2 minutes cooldown.

- Diagnostic scan. But that is only if you specced into it.

Using Diagnostic scan is cutting our mobility entirely, forcing us to stand still when the whole concept of scoundrel is to be able to move all the time.

Also, when we are allowed to free cast, using underworld medecine and kolto pack is needed else we won't be able to keep up with all the damage done since our HoTs aren't enough to keep anyone alive. If we cast then we will go out of energy after only 2-3 casts.

 

To resume, we have energy to manage. But this energy is either low cost for constant output or extremely high cost for high output on a short period. Being out of energy severely hurt our constant output with the unusable kolto cloud and doesn't allow us to scamper. Therefor, we can't have high output on short period as often as other healers.

Increasing the energy cost on our constant healing will simply make high output on short period impossible to do.

 

On top of it, we have to manage our upper hands. And no we don't have unlimited upper hands.

 

No offense, but if you're running out of energy then you're playing the spec wrong. I rarely heal, I hate it, I find healing to be extremely boring, but the few times I have ran it...I never went below 70 energy, ever. I've broken 1 million heals without every casting a single heal and never once even looked at my energy bar. My merc on the other hand when I tried healing on it, I got similar numbers but I was constantly dealing with heat issues. I simply couldn't keep up.

 

On a technical level merc has extremely high single target healing output. Their heals are actually very strong. It is just that after 1.2 they completely jacked their resources thus making them fall behind in healing because they have to hold back just to make sure they don't over heat. An OP doesn't have to hold back. They can spam hots all day and pretty much keep 3 stacks up at all times. And since hots cost practically nothing they never have to worry about energy management.

 

Simply put, the hots need to go back to their original energy cost and the ease of creating stacks of TA needs to go back to how they originally were. The buff to adding them to everything else making it super easy to 3 stacks is what put them over the edge of being as strong as they are. Prior to that buff OP's actually had to cast heals to keep TA up along with their hots and had to somewhat deal with resource management.

Edited October 18, 2013 by Raansu

[snaplemouton]

No offense, but if you're running out of energy then you're playing the spec wrong. I rarely heal, I hate it, I find healing to be extremely boring, but the few times I have ran it...I never went below 70 energy, ever. I've broken 1 million heals without every casting a single heal and never once even looked at my energy bar. My merc on the other hand when I tried healing on it, I got similar numbers but I was constantly dealing with heat issues. I simply couldn't keep up.

 

On a technical level merc has extremely high single target healing output. Their heals are actually very strong. It is just that after 1.2 they completely jacked their resources thus making them fall behind in healing because they have to hold back just to make sure they don't over heat. An OP doesn't have to hold back. They can spam hots all day and pretty much keep 3 stacks up at all times. And since hots cost practically nothing they never have to worry about energy management.

 

Simply put, the hots need to go back to their original energy cost and the ease of creating stacks of TA needs to go back to how they originally were. The buff to adding them to everything else making it super easy to 3 stacks is what put them over the edge of being as strong as they are. Prior to that buff OP's actually had to cast heals to keep TA up along with their hots and had to somewhat deal with resource management.

And you simply ignored all that I said.

I said that energy management for scoundrel isn't like force or heat. Energy management for scoundrel got either a low or high cost. Both giving their own rewards. There is no middle point. Either you roll hots for constant low-medium healing or you screw up your energy bar for an intense period of healing to keep someone from dying. If you never cast as an healing scoundrel, then you are not playing at peek efficiency or you simply are perma focused the whole game without ever having a single moment of rest (Then your team suck at ... being a team).

This is why they can't change the energy management for scoundrel without breaking the class entirely. If they increase the cost on our HoTs, we won't be able to use our cast for big heals since we will be out of energy and won't be able to use our HoTs afterward either...

And no matter how many HoTs a scoundrel can spam, HoTs doesn't save anyone, it only delays the death to allow for the scoundrel to get emergency pack or throw a cast.

 

Also, upper hands. Sage and mando doesn't have 2 of their main heals blocked by a secondary ressource.

 

A million healing is nothing special. In a long warzone it is pretty easy to obtain, just like it is easy to get 700-800k damage in a long warzone.

 

And do not compare scoundrel energy management to commando ammo management.

Since we all know commando combat medic ammo management is retarded and their heal cost way too much.

[RougeBeaver]

To the op healer QQers who are praising this nerf: this won't affect healers at all. They will just continue to stay mobile like always.

 

All this will accomplish is even more operative healers in warzones since DPS is officially dead and buried. So the situation you hate so much will just get even worse when the only kind of Op/Soundrel you'll ever see anymore is the "unkillable" healing kind.

 

You're the ones who should be the most vocal about this nerf. Consider that.

 

Also merc healers are only "bad" if all you care about is the end score. If you wanna salivate while looking at high numbers, surely you can punch one into a calculator.

[foxmob]

Healing output from operatives healers must be nerfed to -20%/-30%; healing of mercs must be buffed +20%.

 

Merc healing output is fine...It's their resource management that needs to be fixed. Its the same thing with OP's. It's not their healing output that is the issue. Its the fact that they never run out of energy. There has to be a fine line of balance between output and resources.

 

you're both right in your own way on this issue. the end result is a huge gap between op heals and merc heals. however, the problem is not the heals themselves but, rather, resource management and the ability to actually cast. I'm only a mediocremando healer, but I just get thrashed in arenas. I have to stand and cast, but that's just impossible with all the stuns and the interrupts that 2-3 dpsers are capable of levying. I also have no sprint or stealth + roll that i can use to escape and quickly los for some cast heals before they catch up to me again. my only recourse is punt, hopefully reactive shield while white bared. electronet is utterly useless in a defensive capacity when I'm being attacked by more than 1 dps, but it's great for 1v1. I can kite just about any single dps forever.

 

so yeah. ammo management was my only issue in WZs. in arenas, the mando suffers all that kb, stun and int, so I'll rarely get a single cast off, and I consider it a win to eek out one string of kolto > advanced probe > med probe.

Edited October 19, 2013 by foxmob

[helloder]

so now that cover is usless, can EP be used out of cover?

 

We'll we discussed it with other bunch of smugglers at port nowhere and finally came to an agreement..

Ok, you may use it now.

But pls don't tell others!

 

P.S. Seriously man, if it's not stated what our hopes it will???