MMORPG: "Not Quite Jump to Lightspeed, But I’ll Take It"

[Darth_Victus]

Heres an even easier option: use these forums as they are intended, and simply tell the devs that you would like to see that feature added

 

But be constructive. Don't demand it.

[JacenHallis]

Generally speaking I get sick of the constant comparisons to JTL. The product should be judged on it own merits. I understand the comparisons are inevitable but lets be a little more realistic. This is not SWG nor should SWTOR ever strive to be SWG. SWG was a different product from a different era.

The same comparisons were made when Rogue Squadron came out because it wasn't like X-Wing. And such comparisons are completely valid.

 

It turns out that Rogue Squadron was a halfway decent game. But it was no X-Wing. In the same way, this space game is no JTL. That doesn't mean it's bad; it simply means that it's not like JTL. It is what it is.

 

This is idiotic. JTL is not why people left SWG in droves; it was the CU and then the NGE that drove people away.

 

JTL was being worked on before SWG was released. The game was pushed out before JTL was finished, hence the release of the expac post launch.

My theory about why people left SWG is that it was, at its heart, a horrible game. The ideas were great but poorly implemented. The devs believed that PvP would be the (to use TOR's term for it) elder game. However, the PvP was horribly unbalanced, with Riflemen (and bounty hunters) carrying the most powerful weapons in the game and targeting the only pool that couldn't be healed outside a cantina. I think it was TKMs who had a knockdown that was spammable. Carbineers were killing themselves to do any of their abilities. And CMs were throwing their disease and poison canisters farther than even Riflemen could shoot.

 

Then there was the fact that the game at its core was pretty much a case of finding your best ability and spamming it until things died. The CU served as a way to even out the imbalances, by making carbines and pistols actually worth using, as well as the non-TK melee trees. it also made armors other than composite worth using.

 

Then the NGE came along and completely changed the way the game worked.

 

Long story short, SWG was never a good game. It was a great vessel for roleplay, but roleplayers alone sadly won't keep a game like that afloat.

 

Anyway you slice it the super secret space project that we all have been waiting on has turned out to be a lame MOBA, has expectations gotten so low that this is considered a win?

Having looked up the definition of MOBA (as I've never played LoL or DotA before), I have to wonder exactly what trailer you were watching. This is a 3rd-person shooter game, like Rogue Squadron, MechAssault, MechWarrior Online, and so on.

 

Let's put it this way: if Galactic Starfighter is a MOBA, then so is all PvP in TOR, and, in fact, the competitive multiplayer mode of every game ever made. Call of Duty? MOBA. Team Fortress? MOBA.

 

Certain terms have set definitions.. Use them properly.

 

If everyone wants pve space free flight content then how about downloading and playing STO which is actually free? Not that hard.

Because STO's ground game is horrible, and its space game isn't much better. All in all, STO is a pretty boring game. And, yeah, I know a lot of Star Trek fans. I'm one of them. None of us play STO anymore, and we were all done with it within a few months. I tried going back fairly recently, and it was even more boring than I remembered it being.

[Thylbanus]

You know what, I'm happy with it. Why? It's basic, uncomplicated, and open for expansion. Imagine if you will that "Galactic Starfighter" is just a car frame. Nice, well built frame, but without an engine, tires, drive train, etc. Now WE get to chime in on what we want to add. Do we want a Hemi, hybrid, or electric engine? Do we want leather seats, power windows, tinted glass, etc.? WE get to pick it! WE can direct where it will go. So I'm all for it. I don't mind rough draft starts since it's the end result that WE ALL get to be apart of.

 

I'm excited.

Edited October 10, 2013 by Thylbanus

[Valdrane]

 

 

My theory about why people left SWG is that it was, at its heart, a horrible game. The ideas were great but poorly implemented. The devs believed that PvP would be the (to use TOR's term for it) elder game. However, the PvP was horribly unbalanced, with Riflemen (and bounty hunters) carrying the most powerful weapons in the game and targeting the only pool that couldn't be healed outside a cantina. I think it was TKMs who had a knockdown that was spammable. Carbineers were killing themselves to do any of their abilities. And CMs were throwing their disease and poison canisters farther than even Riflemen could shoot.

.

 

I left because of the CU and the NGE. Both completely ruined a one of a kind sandbox game, and turned into every other MMO out there. Take a look at the numbers before and after the CU and the NGE, and you will see exactly why SWG failed miserably.

[Nempo]

I left because of the CU and the NGE. Both completely ruined a one of a kind sandbox game, and turned into every other MMO out there. Take a look at the numbers before and after the CU and the NGE, and you will see exactly why SWG failed miserably.

 

It is not a wonderful game if all of the tree/weapons/armors are worth using.

As has been said...the game had no depth in combat...find your strongest skill...spam it. Go to an afk cantina to get the buffs that were bloody required to do anything worthwhile (horrible design). Limited gatherables with automatic collectables (didn't have to manually gather your own stuff, set out a bot to do it for you) gatherable materials had limited special nodes that once claimed were perminantly belonged to the claimer (you couldn't destroyt heir claim to take it for yoruself...forcing themt o guard it...nope, they claimed it and it was theirs for as long as they tended to it fromt ime to time). Crafting ruled the entire economy is actually a negative..due to the fact that once a crafter claims the best nodes...or the only nodes that can give a specific gatherable...now everyone has to go through them. That one person (or guild as the case was more often) now sets the price for everything that specific componant can create by fluctuating how oftent hey sell it to the rest of the server. Watched more than a few people get power mad over it.

 

That is just what I can remember in under 5 min while watching cold case, seriously people need to take off those rose tinted glasses....SWG was a HORRIBLE game, it worked well for RPers but that was about it. From a game mechanics perspective...the game sucked. The combat was pathetic, the classes were about as horribly unbalanced as you can get, JTL was fun in that it allowed you to man guns while someone else piloted yet the actual flight ability was slow and clumsy by today's standards. As I said, it was great for RP given all you could do, the fact it was such a sandbox...but mostly the game was horrible if you weren't into the RP scene or grew tired of the crafters leveraging the fact they controlled the market to influence everything (remember more than one crafter that were the onlye ones able to craft various items becoming a prima dona stompign their foot demanding RP takes certain turns).

[LordArtemis]

I'd like to point out a few things that I think Bioware should be aware of.....

 

First, note that you don't have many friends at MMORPG. That's important, because you will notice that about an even number of folks in the comments seem to be in the "hopeful to excited" area, and thats a good sign IMO.

 

Second, its important to notice the frequency of comments like "cockpit view is a must" and "holding out hope for joystick control"....folks are interested, but they want to run and gun.

 

Even if it's just a zoom in and out with a basic cockpit view and the ability to assign keys to a joystick I think you will hit all the marks here.

 

This is not what many folks were hoping for....but note that despite that, even your critics are interested.

 

That is very telling IMO.

[LordArtemis]

It is not a wonderful game if all of the tree/weapons/armors are worth using.

As has been said...the game had no depth in combat...find your strongest skill...spam it. Go to an afk cantina to get the buffs that were bloody required to do anything worthwhile (horrible design). Limited gatherables with automatic collectables (didn't have to manually gather your own stuff, set out a bot to do it for you) gatherable materials had limited special nodes that once claimed were perminantly belonged to the claimer (you couldn't destroyt heir claim to take it for yoruself...forcing themt o guard it...nope, they claimed it and it was theirs for as long as they tended to it fromt ime to time). Crafting ruled the entire economy is actually a negative..due to the fact that once a crafter claims the best nodes...or the only nodes that can give a specific gatherable...now everyone has to go through them. That one person (or guild as the case was more often) now sets the price for everything that specific componant can create by fluctuating how oftent hey sell it to the rest of the server. Watched more than a few people get power mad over it.

 

That is just what I can remember in under 5 min while watching cold case, seriously people need to take off those rose tinted glasses....SWG was a HORRIBLE game, it worked well for RPers but that was about it. From a game mechanics perspective...the game sucked. The combat was pathetic, the classes were about as horribly unbalanced as you can get, JTL was fun in that it allowed you to man guns while someone else piloted yet the actual flight ability was slow and clumsy by today's standards. As I said, it was great for RP given all you could do, the fact it was such a sandbox...but mostly the game was horrible if you weren't into the RP scene or grew tired of the crafters leveraging the fact they controlled the market to influence everything (remember more than one crafter that were the onlye ones able to craft various items becoming a prima dona stompign their foot demanding RP takes certain turns).

 

You seem to completely miss the entire point of opinions....they do not require qualification.

 

That means, rosy glasses or not, some folks loved the game, faults and all. And many folks did not.

 

The world is big enough for both groups believe it or not.

[kidatwood]

I left because of the CU and the NGE. Both completely ruined a one of a kind sandbox game, and turned into every other MMO out there. Take a look at the numbers before and after the CU and the NGE, and you will see exactly why SWG failed miserably.

 

The NGE was the biggest mass exodus to date. I never seen a game go from healthy to dead in a matter of a week. It was sad.

[Ycoga]

Anybody not heard of Star Citizen yet?

[Nemmar]

Anybody not heard of Star Citizen yet?

 

Sigh at you. Different games. Star wars and Star Trek arent the same thing. You want star trek like exploration? Go Star Citizen. You want action? Go star wars.

Edited October 10, 2013 by Nemmar

[Arkerus]

The same comparisons were made when Rogue Squadron came out because it wasn't like X-Wing. And such comparisons are completely valid.

 

It turns out that Rogue Squadron was a halfway decent game. But it was no X-Wing. In the same way, this space game is no JTL. That doesn't mean it's bad; it simply means that it's not like JTL. It is what it is.

 

 

My theory about why people left SWG is that it was, at its heart, a horrible game. The ideas were great but poorly implemented. The devs believed that PvP would be the (to use TOR's term for it) elder game. However, the PvP was horribly unbalanced, with Riflemen (and bounty hunters) carrying the most powerful weapons in the game and targeting the only pool that couldn't be healed outside a cantina. I think it was TKMs who had a knockdown that was spammable. Carbineers were killing themselves to do any of their abilities. And CMs were throwing their disease and poison canisters farther than even Riflemen could shoot.

 

Then there was the fact that the game at its core was pretty much a case of finding your best ability and spamming it until things died. The CU served as a way to even out the imbalances, by making carbines and pistols actually worth using, as well as the non-TK melee trees. it also made armors other than composite worth using.

 

Then the NGE came along and completely changed the way the game worked.

 

Long story short, SWG was never a good game. It was a great vessel for roleplay, but roleplayers alone sadly won't keep a game like that afloat.

 

 

Having looked up the definition of MOBA (as I've never played LoL or DotA before), I have to wonder exactly what trailer you were watching. This is a 3rd-person shooter game, like Rogue Squadron, MechAssault, MechWarrior Online, and so on.

 

Let's put it this way: if Galactic Starfighter is a MOBA, then so is all PvP in TOR, and, in fact, the competitive multiplayer mode of every game ever made. Call of Duty? MOBA. Team Fortress? MOBA.

 

Certain terms have set definitions.. Use them properly.

 

 

Because STO's ground game is horrible, and its space game isn't much better. All in all, STO is a pretty boring game. And, yeah, I know a lot of Star Trek fans. I'm one of them. None of us play STO anymore, and we were all done with it within a few months. I tried going back fairly recently, and it was even more boring than I remembered it being.

 

I agree with 99% of your post but your comment about valid comparisons doesn't really make sense when it was obvious rogue squadron was a totally different type of game. I never expected RS to be JTL. Never.

 

But truth be told I can see how people would compare this to JTL, I just get sick of the comparison. Let this product be its own product and not JTL.

[Grayseven]

The CU and the following NGE happened because the original system for classes and abilities was simply impossible to balance. Subscription losses prior to JTL were because there was no content and the aforementioned unbalanced classes.

 

What drove people away in droves was not the CU. It was the textbook example of how NOT to screw over your player base by launching an expansion and announcing the day after release that the entire game is going to fundamentally change.

 

SOE's policies and procedures coupled with LucasArt's complete inexperience with the MMO genre created the disaster that was SWG. I'll remember all my time with it fondly (especially JTL) but to not admit to the epic flaws in the game were what ultimately destroyed it would be just fooling ourselves.

[Arkerus]

The CU and the following NGE happened because the original system for classes and abilities was simply impossible to balance. Subscription losses prior to JTL were because there was no content and the aforementioned unbalanced classes.

 

What drove people away in droves was not the CU. It was the textbook example of how NOT to screw over your player base by launching an expansion and announcing the day after release that the entire game is going to fundamentally change.

 

SOE's policies and procedures coupled with LucasArt's complete inexperience with the MMO genre created the disaster that was SWG. I'll remember all my time with it fondly (especially JTL) but to not admit to the epic flaws in the game were what ultimately destroyed it would be just fooling ourselves.

 

That's the way I see it too and its almost amazing how some people on this forum look at SWG as if it was some perfect holy grail of MMOs. Even the developers have admitted it was terribly flawed in a lot of places and it was never the product they wanted it to be. They were bleeding subs like a stuck pig because the game just wasn't very good. The NGE was a move out of desperation because nothing was going to stop the bleed.

[Vinak]

SOE might have gotten some flack for JTL, but I know of a lot of players that only continued to play because they enjoyed space combat so much. I even know a few that got the game specifically for the space combat

I was one of those players for the most part. The CU just made the game really boring.I started spending more and more time in space than I was doing ground content. Could solo star destroyers in my x-wing and what not. (factional space ships were balanced poorly) Then the NGE just sucked.

 

This is idiotic. JTL is not why people left SWG in droves; it was the CU and then the NGE that drove people away.

 

JTL was being worked on before SWG was released. The game was pushed out before JTL was finished, hence the release of the expac post launch.

 

wow...it's almost as if...you didn't read any of my post.

Edited October 10, 2013 by Vinak

[Andryah]

That's the way I see it too and its almost amazing how some people on this forum look at SWG as if it was some perfect holy grail of MMOs. Even the developers have admitted it was terribly flawed in a lot of places and it was never the product they wanted it to be. They were bleeding subs like a stuck pig because the game just wasn't very good. The NGE was a move out of desperation because nothing was going to stop the bleed.

 

Heh.. yeah.

 

Nostalgia not only colors one's memories over time.. it deifies one's personal mythology..... thus empowering the myth as basis for a crusade.

Edited October 10, 2013 by Andryah

[Vinak]

SWG was a sandbox game. People seem to forget that.

 

"Content" was made by the community. During the "golden" period of SWG (on my server at least), we had all kinds of community events. Including a pretty strong imperial vs rebel pvp scene.

 

The population was stable up until the point of the release of wow. The game ultimately committed suicide when it released the CU. Kashyyyk kinda broke some things including bounty hunting which didn't help matters.

 

And game balance wasn't impossible with the original system. some fairly simple fixes would have solved many of the problems.

Edited October 10, 2013 by Vinak

[ImpactHound]

SWG was a sandbox game. People seem to forget that.

 

"Content" was made by the community. During the "golden" period of SWG (on my server at least), we had all kinds of community events. Including a pretty strong imperial vs rebel pvp scene.

 

The population was stable up until the point of the release of wow. The game ultimately committed suicide when it released the CU. Kashyyyk kinda broke some things including bounty hunting which didn't help matters.

 

And game balance wasn't impossible with the original system. some fairly simple fixes would have solved many of the problems.

 

I would argue that it had scripted content, but it was extremely hard to find or overtuned to make it difficult to even access. I remember inspecting players to see a litany of interesting things they had done as an explorer, but none of it had even a starting point to steer you in the right direction as a player. I couldn't remember the requirements to engage and survive the Night Sisters or how to access the Corellian Corvette unless I inspected a wiki today, which was far less common & incomplete back then.

[kidatwood]

Lol anyone remember rubber banding in galaxies it was almost a mini game in itself!!!

[Tamanous]

Lol anyone remember rubber banding in galaxies it was almost a mini game in itself!!!

 

No kidding. The love so many people have for SWG is rather interesting. The player base was INCREDIBLY small even past the first year or so. Even before the NGE player made towns were ghost towns. The physics in the game were some of the worst I have ever seen in an mmo. The original skill trees nothing more than min-max spec grinding most did through macro killing when afk. So much of the game was simply terrible.

 

That said there were many features today's mmos could really use. The game actually offered a great deal for those looking for a real mmo world offering many non-combat options that create a real role playing game. I did enjoy the fact you could actually go prone and snipe but most of the combat was terrible. The world maps were terrible and npc's about the dumbest I have seen in an mmo (but that is like comparing a gopher to a marmet).

 

The game died because too few played it. There were reasons for that even after launch and before other major changes. Throw all of your conspiracies aside.

 

Sadly though I never got to play the space expansion for SWG. It is the one thing I may have enjoyed but I could not stomach the rest of the game.

Edited October 10, 2013 by Tamanous

[TUXs]

Do you agree or disagree with what Michael Bitton has to say?

 

No matter what he says, he runs a business based on game advertising, and everything he writes is impacted (tainted) by that fact - it's like asking Michelle Obama to write a review of Barrack.

[The_Grand_Nagus]

No matter what he says, he runs a business based on game advertising, and everything he writes is impacted (tainted) by that fact - it's like asking Michelle Obama to write a review of Barrack.

 

So is that a "yes I agree with him" or a "no I do not agree with him"?

[chuixupu]

For a moment I thought it said Michael Bolton and I was intrigued. But in reality I don't care what MMORPG.com has to say about anything.

[BrianDavion]

look, people who where expecting JTLS where kidding themselves. people need to understand SW:TOR is not, nor will it ever be SWG 2. this game is instead essentially a sequal to the KOTOR games.

[kidatwood]

No kidding. The love so many people have for SWG is rather interesting. The player base was INCREDIBLY small even past the first year or so. Even before the NGE player made towns were ghost towns. The physics in the game were some of the worst I have ever seen in an mmo. The original skill trees nothing more than min-max spec grinding most did through macro killing when afk. So much of the game was simply terrible.

 

That said there were many features today's mmos could really use. The game actually offered a great deal for those looking for a real mmo world offering many non-combat options that create a real role playing game. I did enjoy the fact you could actually go prone and snipe but most of the combat was terrible. The world maps were terrible and npc's about the dumbest I have seen in an mmo (but that is like comparing a gopher to a marmet).

 

The game died because too few played it. There were reasons for that even after launch and before other major changes. Throw all of your conspiracies aside.

 

 

 

Sadly though I never got to play the space expansion for SWG. It is the one thing I may have enjoyed but I could not stomach the rest of the game.

 

I actually beta tested jtl it was cool hope this is something different.

[jedip_enguin]

I see the comments section of the article is full of butthurt, rose tinted glass wearing SWG fans, still bitter that their baby got put down.

 

Makes for fun reading.