Hahahahah

[Cordorian]

BWAHAHAHAH IT'S TlME FOR CONCEALMENT TO ONCE AGAlN RULE THE GALAXY

 

^this

[JestersRevenge]

Wow. Care to link?

 

Also go look at the Mercenary class Q&A with Eric in the class forum.

[TonyDragonflame]

So, the Combat Team finally admits to screwing the pooch and has "plans" to rectify this.

 

I feel some butthurt in the Force here...

[Cordorian]

that could possibly make watchman/annihilation the new concealment!!!

[Brunner_Venda]

I agree that snipers and maras probably have too much utility, but damage is about right.

 

The easiest fix would be to take away some of the CC and slow abilities. Someone doing 3300 DPS doesn't need flash bang to mezz five people for eight seconds. Maybe maras have just one too many roots and slows, take one and call it good.

 

If you nerf the damage on those two classes without beating operative healers into the dirt with a nerf bat, OP healers will never die. Seriously, the only way I can kill an OP healer is with a sniper. I don't see how anyone can kill one without takedown.

[TechTheHic]

I agree that snipers and maras probably have too much utility, but damage is about right.

 

The easiest fix would be to take away some of the CC and slow abilities. Someone doing 3300 DPS doesn't need flash bang to mezz five people for eight seconds. Maybe maras have just one too many roots and slows, take one and call it good.

 

If you nerf the damage on those two classes without beating operative healers into the dirt with a nerf bat, OP healers will never die. Seriously, the only way I can kill an OP healer is with a sniper. I don't see how anyone can kill one without takedown.

 

They pretty much hinted about operative healers as well.

 

As for venting Heat/recharging Energy Cells when Rapid Shots/Hammer Shot is used, that may be something we could do. However, it is also possible that the energy return tied into Diagnostic Scan makes Operative healers better than they should be. It does seem strange that one healer would have an energy-returning ability, while another healer using basically the same type of resource system has nothing to compare with it. We will investigate this further, and the outcome should be positive or at least neutral for Mercenaries/Commandos.

 

hmm, I wonder how the outcome could be neutral...

[Aetideus]

that could possibly make watchman/annihilation the new concealment!!!

 

Meh, requires pre-2.0 crit mechanics e.g. Pyro - Assault will be op again.

[Kahndraga]

I agree that snipers and maras probably have too much utility, but damage is about right.

 

The easiest fix would be to take away some of the CC and slow abilities. Someone doing 3300 DPS doesn't need flash bang to mezz five people for eight seconds. Maybe maras have just one too many roots and slows, take one and call it good.

 

If you nerf the damage on those two classes without beating operative healers into the dirt with a nerf bat, OP healers will never die. Seriously, the only way I can kill an OP healer is with a sniper. I don't see how anyone can kill one without takedown.

 

Try a 10k crit from my Demo round followed by High impact bolt for 5k. After the said healer has been worked on for a while of course.

[Cordorian]

I agree that snipers and maras probably have too much utility, but damage is about right.

 

The easiest fix would be to take away some of the CC and slow abilities. Someone doing 3300 DPS doesn't need flash bang to mezz five people for eight seconds. Maybe maras have just one too many roots and slows, take one and call it good.

 

If you nerf the damage on those two classes without beating operative healers into the dirt with a nerf bat, OP healers will never die. Seriously, the only way I can kill an OP healer is with a sniper. I don't see how anyone can kill one without takedown.

 

I am only just leveling my sentinel (playing combat, atm no intention going smash), yet i think taking away roots, would be a massive nerf to the spec. The problem in pvp is neither watchman nor combat but focus (in pve combat and watchman are fotm it seems, but that doesnt matter here, but changing the control option wouldnt effect pve anyway). I agree damage output reduction wouldnt be a good solution for pvp (it might be necessary for pve though, and the merc question that gave the quoted answer was pve related), my point would be nerf rage/focus survivablity compared to the other two sent/mara specs, so they reach about jugg rage/focus survivability.

 

So far I dont play a slinger/sniper so can't really say what would help there, i only have a developed a certain hate for the AC

 

No thread without asking for nerfs for OP healers it seems. (PVE wise they arent even half as OP as they are in PVP btw). They are hard to kill, but so can be sage that uses god bubble at the right moment gets guard and heals to full. Sage can be interrupted and run into force management problems in extended periodes of healing, but their effective healing output is higher, has free self-heal, they can bubble their team and have better burst healing. A good sage is next to immortal as well, but they are way more difficult to play to that aim. I am not saying it is balanced, because it isnt. Operative healers have a lot that speaks in their favor especially in an arena setting. But currently i dont see how a fair nerf could be placed without making them completely useless. A tiny bit too much in terms of energy management, and they fall in too easy into the energy trap. Without Surgical Probe (the instant emergency heal), you wouldnt have any healing burst at all, make TAs harder to get and operative could only fluff heal, or do the really expensive casted heals that are infrior to the one sages have. I think you could take away stealth because it is not really needed (and give them too much utility in pvp), but this wont work since stealth is tied to the AC as is Cloacking Screen. Same goes for CC, take that away and concealment and lethality ....ok i guess i dont even have to say it. Otherwise the calls doesnt really have good DCDs. So if anybody has a constructive idea how to nerf them, without ruining the other to trees even more, or making them irrelevant for healing, go for it... i havent heard much in that direction.

 

And btw you kill them, it takes some group effort and clever stunning though:P

[L-RANDLE]

I think I disagree with everything Eric said. For what its worth, the point in having a shared tree is to get talents from the other AC. I don't have too much of a problem giving them the tankie stuff. Frontline needs tankie stuff.

 

The issue was and still is the damage output due to the singularity/shockwave proc. If you have a shared tree for improvement on tankie stuff, that should "cost" about as much Damage. There is no other class that can instantly ramp-up their damage by hitting one button. IMO that proc needs to be changed so it impacts sweeping slash OR vicisous slash. That way, the player will have to decide whether a decent AoE or a bursty single target is required. This will increase the skill cap while not swinging thenerf bat crazily.

[maverickmatt]

I think I disagree with everything Eric said. For what its worth, the point in having a shared tree is to get talents from the other AC. I don't have too much of a problem giving them the tankie stuff. Frontline needs tankie stuff.

 

The issue was and still is the damage output due to the singularity/shockwave proc. If you have a shared tree for improvement on tankie stuff, that should "cost" about as much Damage. There is no other class that can instantly ramp-up their damage by hitting one button. IMO that proc needs to be changed so it impacts sweeping slash OR vicisous slash. That way, the player will have to decide whether a decent AoE or a bursty single target is required. This will increase the skill cap while not swinging thenerf bat crazily.

 

To be fair, it was the Combat Team who wrote that. Maras are much too powerful and can be played much too recklessly.

 

So, it's like this:

 

There isn't really anything terribly difficult to play here. You could say Watchman, Vigilance or Balance or Concealment, but overall it's not that bad.

 

The easiest of easy are Maras, Snipers, and Operatives.

 

A Melee, Ranged, and Healer.

 

Every game has those extra-low skillcap specs which are far too easy to play, but I can't recall another game for any system or console which allows low-skill specs to dominate all aspects of the game.

 

Easy-to-play should come at a price, and here it doesn't.

 

But please, tell me how I'm wrong. Tell me how it's not stupid easy to play mara, throw up HUGE damage numbers and have godmode invincibility.

 

Tell me how it's not stupid simple to play sniper and dynamite people from cover with full CC and interrupt immunity, with massive AOE damage reduction.

 

Tell me how hard it is to play Operative heals, never run out of energy, put out massive heal numbers, and have utility a healer should NEVER have (heal from cover? ***. Out of combat mezz? I thought you were heals. Oh wait, you have a supergapcloser? No, no way you're a healer....)

[L-RANDLE]

To be fair, it was the Combat Team who wrote that. Maras are much too powerful and can be played much too recklessly.

 

So, it's like this:

 

There isn't really anything terribly difficult to play here. You could say Watchman, Vigilance or Balance or Concealment, but overall it's not that bad.

 

The easiest of easy are Maras, Snipers, and Operatives.

 

A Melee, Ranged, and Healer.

 

Every game has those extra-low cap specs which are far too easy to play, but I can't recall another game for any system or console which allows low-skill specs to dominate all aspects of the game.

 

Easy-to-play should come at a price, and here it doesn't.

 

But please, tell me how I'm wrong. Tell me how it's not stupid easy to play mara, throw up HUGE damage numbers and have godmode invincibility.

 

Tell me how it's not stupid simple to play sniper and dynamite people from cover with full CC and interrupt immunity, with massive AOE damage reduction.

 

Tell me how hard it is to play Operative heals, never run out of energy, put out massive heal numbers, and have utility a healer should NEVER have (heal from cover? ***. Out of combat mezz? I thought you were heals. Oh wait, you have a supergapcloser? No, no way you're a healer....)

Well I tend to look at it like this: This game is not harder or easier on any spec if you can read and press buttons.

 

I know even that can be asking alot of some, but the basic gameplay is the same: rinse and repeat rotations.

Once you get past that curve, you sort of realize that you are at the mercy of what attacks/heal ratings are. I also look at the "purpose" of shared trees and try to adjust damage/heals accordingly.

 

Lore dictates that ShiCho is the basic stance. Balanced offense/defense. Better offense than Soresu, better defense than Juyo. The main problem is that the offense is better than Ataru and Shien, which is absurd because those SHOULD be the strongest offensive forms...

 

So basically, without going into full SW nerd form, the defense is fine, the offense is the problem..

[cashogy_reborn]

Play a Mercenary in highly competitive PvP, then play a Sniper. Then tell me which is easier to perform your role.....

[RougeBeaver]

Fine with me.

 

Now they need to re-extend the range of Electrocute/Electro Dart to 30m for Sorc and Merc.

 

Proper balance makes me a happy camper.

[L-RANDLE]

Play a Mercenary in highly competitive PvP, then play a Sniper. Then tell me which is easier to perform your role.....

 

I'm just saying the playstyle isn't any "easier", the damage output is not on par or the other stuff is not as well balanced by comparison. So something need to happen, buff or nerf.

[cashogy_reborn]

I'm just saying the playstyle isn't any "easier", the damage output is not on par or the other stuff is not as well balanced by comparison. So something need to happen, buff or nerf.

 

The playstyle is massively easier (comparing Merc to Sniper).

 

Sniper can plop down, hit entrench, and just pewpewpewpew for 20s. The only way theyre removed is if there is another sniper that is paying attention.

 

Sniper has better ranged control, better CC, and better ability to maintain damage output under all circumstances. You cant say that Merc and Sniper are even remotely on the same level in terms of playstyle, output, utility, etc. In order for me to match, let alone exceed what a Sniper can do, I have to play at an obscene level.

 

If youre only referring to the fact that every class basically has a main 4-5 skills (with a lot of situational abilities) to use over and over, then yes all classes are basically the same in that manner.

[Lowyjowylof]

I'm just saying the playstyle isn't any "easier", the damage output is not on par or the other stuff is not as well balanced by comparison. So something need to happen, buff or nerf.

Yes, it would be easier for BW to give the necessary tools to Merc/Commando to be able to DPS reliably but you know they will give sniper/slinger BB guns and then give Merc/Mando the Death Star Laser.

[L-RANDLE]

I do find it strange that turret classes don't have similar levels of immunity. I guess they think the base class is "tankie enough".. LOL....

 

I think it just furthers my point that there are too many mismatched talents in most trees and the shared tree is not really "shared" (in the way I would define it).

 

Jugg Rage should have a smattering of Juyo bleed stuff.

Mara Rage more tankie stuff

 

Sage Balance more tankie stuff Combat Tech stuff

Shadow Balance more passive Seer stuff.

 

Etc, etc

[TipsyDrow]

Well I tend to look at it like this: This game is not harder or easier on any spec if you can read and press buttons.

 

I know even that can be asking alot of some, but the basic gameplay is the same: rinse and repeat rotations.

Once you get past that curve, you sort of realize that you are at the mercy of what attacks/heal ratings are. I also look at the "purpose" of shared trees and try to adjust damage/heals accordingly.

 

Lore dictates that ShiCho is the basic stance. Balanced offense/defense. Better offense than Soresu, better defense than Juyo. The main problem is that the offense is better than Ataru and Shien, which is absurd because those SHOULD be the strongest offensive forms...

 

So basically, without going into full SW nerd form, the defense is fine, the offense is the problem..

I will respectfully disagree here in that Shi-cho at a master level (Kit Fisto) does indeed do a large amount of damage. But it's effectiveness is against multiple opponents and weaker against single targets. So the smash/focus spec in this game is actually, at a high level right on par with lore. Sorry I had to reply. My lore nerdiness went into full alert.

[Technohic]

Play a Mercenary in highly competitive PvP, then play a Sniper. Then tell me which is easier to perform your role.....

 

I know after I played my merc and got decent at it, I was better aware of my surroundings than I had gotten as just playing my sniper. Reason being is I had to use terrain and move around and be more creative with how I dealt with enemies as just killing them was often not the answer. It made me a better sniper afterwards.

[L-RANDLE]

I will respectfully disagree here in that Shi-cho at a master level (Kit Fisto) does indeed do a large amount of damage. But it's effectiveness is against multiple opponents and weaker against single targets. So the smash/focus spec in this game is actually, at a high level right on par with lore. Sorry I had to reply. My lore nerdiness went into full alert.

 

As it relates to this game, it doesn't take master level skill to deal master level damage. I didn't say I had a problem with the AoE that the spec is built around. This is why I would suggest the 33% proc is moved to the other AoE attack that is rarely used. Smash should not have the possibility of dealing damage higher than a top level single attack.

[Raansu]

Isn't that the idea? Right now the class is too hard to kill.

 

womp womp

 

I'm not saying the class isn't strong, but have you every actually bothered playing a sentinel? When their defense is on CD they are EXTREMELY squishy. And this is a class that has to be in the middle of everything. While I do agree that they should probably lose force camo, but changing their 3 main DCD's would hurt them more than you think. They wouldn't be able to function as they would just go pop every time they leaped.

 

This is also a double hit for pve and pvp. While I somewhat agree that GBTF should have a healing reduction when popped in pvp, in pve it would hurt this class a lot as they have to be in the brunt of a lot of aoe. GBTF would let them push out maybe 3 more GCD's before it went off and they died and now they have a dead melee. Then instead of taking a ranged/melee combo they would just go all ranged. This would require BW to learn how to separate the ability between pve and pvp which is something they don't do very often.

[L-RANDLE]

I'm not saying the class isn't strong, but have you every actually bothered playing a sentinel? When their defense is on CD they are EXTREMELY squishy. And this is a class that has to be in the middle of everything. While I do agree that they should probably lose force camo, changing their 3 main DCD's would hurt them more than you think. They wouldn't be able to function as they would just go pop every time they leaped.

 

This is also a double hit for pve and pvp. While I somewhat agree that GBTF should have a healing reduction when popped in pvp, in pve it would hurt this class a lot as they have to be in the brunt of a lot of aoe. GBTF would let them push out maybe 3 more GCD's before it went off and they died and now they have a dead melee. Then instead of taking a ranged/melee combo they would just go all ranged. This would require BW to learn how to separate the ability between pve and pvp which is something they don't do very often.

As my Sig notes I had a problem with UDR for awhile,but keeping with the whole shared tree thing I think another good change would be to make the skill itself speccable in the Mara and Jugg tree instead of the reduction.

[Lowyjowylof]

I will respectfully disagree here in that Shi-cho at a master level (Kit Fisto) does indeed do a large amount of damage. But it's effectiveness is against multiple opponents and weaker against single targets. So the smash/focus spec in this game is actually, at a high level right on par with lore. Sorry I had to reply. My lore nerdiness went into full alert.

 

He lasted what 10-15 seconds against Palpatine (Juyo)?

[Mikeieveli]

First off post the link before any of us actually take this seriously. I can understand nerfing smash damage but lets not get carried away with the defensive cds. Also try playing Combat or Watchman sent, you rarely see any of those in wzs. And when you do they are middle to low end on damage scale, so dont tell me how easy they are to play. Im fine with a smash nerf, but an overall dcd nerf to the class will cause players to not play the class at all, since all we see now is smash anyways.