Class Representatives Update!

[Avicii]

I have no idea why they aren't/haven't been throwing class changes at the wall on the PTS and seeing what sticks. They chose to not really do much with the PTS and I believe that is really hurting the game.

 

In my opinion they should be almost constantly tweaking things on the PTS before sending them live.

 

This.

 

The only way this can be taken as good news is that they aren't waiting till 2.6 for balance changes but it might not matter by then with no cross server queues.

 

Best plan would've been make little changes now, such as the changed for VGs and PTs then tweaks again in 2.5 as well as 2.6. This would give players hope and something to look forward to no matter what class they play.

 

Perception of changes and hope are a powerful thing. Just look at the lack of hope and perception of no changes for certain classes and the tone it has set on the class specific forums, its not a happy vibe unless you are a Mara/OP healer/Jug tank and people go in assuming they are ****ed which leads to not queuing.

 

Most of us that speak out want the game to succeed, we dont want to see our friends and rivals leave (again). We are all in this together and people leaving or releases failing hurts everyone, example 1.2 and the RWZ debacle. Arena success depends on keeping people queuing and them having fun doing so a lot of that is based on perception of having a chance to win and the hope small tweaks will come to your class to keep you invested and playing.

[LordArtemis]

Arena will likely not have that much of an effect on subscriber rates, overall player population or the games success IMO.

 

That said, it might at least satiate the PVP community for a bit. They certainly deserve some love.

[Captainejo]

Is there a date for 2.5? You're losing all of Pof5 PvPers over this.

[Bzziki]

***>?

[MasterFeign]

I assume there will still be dialogue for the classes that have been represented? I ask because while I'm not 100% sure on other classes, I find that the shadows/assassins have more than 3 things that would need to be covered.

[ShatteredVision]

What a joke. FYI, most major games tweak classes every patch. They don't push it off constantly, to some other time. I just hope the devs are aware that they're the reason a lot of people have left. It's a shame, the game is pretty awesome. I love it and have had a good bit of fun. Still, there are just so many little things that could easily be remedied - that literally go on for months at a time, with little word or explanation. I'll be out of here, without a doubt, the moment Wildstar drops. Sorry, but eaware doesn't deserve my loyalty. Their constant mishandling of nearly every relevant issue with this game, just can't be overlooked. The sad thing is, if something interesting drops sooner, I'll also be out. It's a bummer that I'm praying for another game to abduct me, but it's true. This is the best single player game I've played, though. Really a shame.

[Yestreen]

Hey everyone,

 

As many of you are no doubt aware, we implemented the Class Representatives system a few weeks ago. The goal if this system was simple: introduce a dialog around each class based on what the community feels their top 3 issues are at the time.

 

So far the reps have been doing a great job and you all have been providing invaluable feedback to the team. However, today I come with some good and bad news. First, the bad!

 

Once we have returned the Shadow and Mercenary top 3 which were submitted last week, we will be putting it on hold. I know the first question that comes to mind is, why? This is pretty simple actually. All 8 set of class mirrors have submitted a top 3 to us once after this most recent round.

 

With that being said, we have not yet made any actual class changes since the initiative began (barring the BH/Trooper changes). Because of this, the second set of top 3 will not really be as impactful since it will likely be a revisit of the same 3 issues that were presented before. Because of that, I am going to put the Class Reps on hold until we start making some class changes again.

 

This leads us to the good news, right? I know the next question you will ask, based on what I just typed is "when are we getting class changes then?" I have that answer too! You will begin to see class changes in Game Update 2.5. After 2.5 hits, we will reintroduce the Class Reps and allow those reps to once again begin a dialog with the developers on what issues still remain with their classes.

 

I will also rework the schedule to insure that only classes who received changes at that point are in the front of the schedule. I want to be clear that it is possible that not all classes will see changes in 2.5, but there are definitely some class changes coming. I also want to set the expectation that you shouldn't expect crazy big changes like you saw with 2.0. but it will be a new set of changes. Also, if you don't receive changes in 2.5 don't fret as we will be continually touching class balance.

 

Last but not least, one thing I want to do is to make sure that you are all informed on both the decisions we are making and why we are making them. To that end, as we get closer to the launch of 2.5 we will be publishing some class change blogs similar to what we did around 2.0. This way you can all be as informed as possible! We will definitely make an effort to stay active in the class forums and keep you all apprised of any updates, as well as making sure we are continuing to pass feedback on the dev team.

 

I think that about wraps it up. If you have any questions I will stick around in the thread to try to answer them. Hopefully all of my ramblings make sense.

 

-eric

 

tldr - Class Rep initiative is on hiatus after the Assassin/Merc answers until our next set of class changes come in 2.5.

 

 

So changes are coming, and they will happen more frequently, and they will communicate the reason behind these changes in blogposts.

 

I think this is a step in the right direction.

 

Good job.

[ImpactHound]

What a joke. FYI, most major games tweak classes every patch. They don't push it off constantly, to some other time. I just hope the devs are aware that they're the reason a lot of people have left. It's a shame, the game is pretty awesome. I love it and have had a good bit of fun. Still, there are just so many little things that could easily be remedied - that literally go on for months at a time, with little word or explanation. I'll be out of here, without a doubt, the moment Wildstar drops. Sorry, but eaware doesn't deserve my loyalty. Their constant mishandling of nearly every relevant issue with this game, just can't be overlooked. The sad thing is, if something interesting drops sooner, I'll also be out. It's a bummer that I'm praying for another game to abduct me, but it's true. This is the best single player game I've played, though. Really a shame.

 

I have a glimmer of hope for multiplayer space combat, but it seems so distant at this point...

[g_land]

Aside from the fact that you are cutting these questions short; another issue is that as several of the class reps have left, I know at least one more that is getting very busy and may be leaving the game due to RL. If these get delayed even further, some others might not be around as well...

[warstory]

Hey everyone,

 

As many of you are no doubt aware, we implemented the Class Representatives system a few weeks ago. The goal if this system was simple: introduce a dialog around each class based on what the community feels their top 3 issues are at the time.

 

So far the reps have been doing a great job and you all have been providing invaluable feedback to the team. However, today I come with some good and bad news. First, the bad!

 

Once we have returned the Shadow and Mercenary top 3 which were submitted last week, we will be putting it on hold. I know the first question that comes to mind is, why? This is pretty simple actually. All 8 set of class mirrors have submitted a top 3 to us once after this most recent round.

 

With that being said, we have not yet made any actual class changes since the initiative began (barring the BH/Trooper changes). Because of this, the second set of top 3 will not really be as impactful since it will likely be a revisit of the same 3 issues that were presented before. Because of that, I am going to put the Class Reps on hold until we start making some class changes again.

 

This leads us to the good news, right? I know the next question you will ask, based on what I just typed is "when are we getting class changes then?" I have that answer too! You will begin to see class changes in Game Update 2.5. After 2.5 hits, we will reintroduce the Class Reps and allow those reps to once again begin a dialog with the developers on what issues still remain with their classes.

 

I will also rework the schedule to insure that only classes who received changes at that point are in the front of the schedule. I want to be clear that it is possible that not all classes will see changes in 2.5, but there are definitely some class changes coming. I also want to set the expectation that you shouldn't expect crazy big changes like you saw with 2.0. but it will be a new set of changes. Also, if you don't receive changes in 2.5 don't fret as we will be continually touching class balance.

 

Last but not least, one thing I want to do is to make sure that you are all informed on both the decisions we are making and why we are making them. To that end, as we get closer to the launch of 2.5 we will be publishing some class change blogs similar to what we did around 2.0. This way you can all be as informed as possible! We will definitely make an effort to stay active in the class forums and keep you all apprised of any updates, as well as making sure we are continuing to pass feedback on the dev team.

 

I think that about wraps it up. If you have any questions I will stick around in the thread to try to answer them. Hopefully all of my ramblings make sense.

 

-eric

 

tldr - Class Rep initiative is on hiatus after the Assassin/Merc answers until our next set of class changes come in 2.5.

 

 

Eric, I have a choice to make and I need your help to make it. I have my level 55 telekinetic sage and now starting to level my commando which is currently at level 22, I play casually and want to make sure I put my TIME in the right place, so my question is are there any changes coming to the sage class cause if not I don't want to put anytime into that character. Ty

 

I mean your game is compete ting for my TIME it would be good customer service to help me invest my TIME wisely into your product

Edited September 18, 2013 by warstory

[AdrianDmitruk]

So sorcs must heal other games to full. And Make Bioware Pay for trying its hardest to kill our class for top-end content, which apparently the vaunted "metrics" don't measure. (Or is it maybe a matter of the handful players in the entire world who are good enough to get gimped classes through NiM/viable in competitive ranked skewing the metrics for everyone else?)

 

I had hoped Bioware would use the sage Q&A as a chance to address our class issues in a more constructive manner, but now that won't be happening. And I suppose those who accuse us of wanting ponies and unicorns can mock the shadows for wanting the issues with their gimped class looked at, too.

 

I'll be honest--my guild is very desperately trying to get me to stay in the game at this point as I've reactivated my old EVE Online account in reaction to heal to full burnout. I've found myself playing EVE more, SWTOR less.

[ImpactHound]

Aside from the fact that you are cutting these questions short; another issue is that as several of the class reps have left, I know at least one more that is getting very busy and may be leaving the game due to RL. If these get delayed even further, some others might not be around as well...

 

Which class reps quit the game? I mean that initiative just happened, it's almost funny.

[Suromir]

hahahaha I knew the whole "class rep" thing was pointless. and you just proved it.

 

if you're not going to keep it going all the time and take it seriously..just get rid of it entirely. stop with the half-done jobs on everything you do. Either have them and listen/react...or don't bother at all.

[eartharioch]

I agree. It was like Sage/Sorcs were children asking for a pony for Christmas and then throwing a temper tantrum when their parents explained why they couldn't have one.

 

Interesting analogy, but you oversimplified it a bit.

 

If little Timmy hands his Christmas list to one parent (Eric Musco), who says that a pony would be a great thing for Santa to bring, people shouldn't blame Timmy for getting mad when he wakes up to find that not only did Santa not bring him a pony, but he took a bite out of every cookie and then pissed in the milk before he left.

 

And when Timmy's neighbor complains about not getting *his* pony, Santa says, "sorry", and gives him a Radio Flyer wagon. And when Timmy says, "What about me?", Santa says "Wait until your brother's birthday and we'll get you each one."

 

And now Santa just killed Timmy's brother, so still no pony for Timmy. Maybe he should just wait until next Christmas?

[Majspuffen]

Which class reps quit the game? I mean that initiative just happened, it's almost funny.

 

What do you mean just happened? It's been going on for 2 freaking months.

[EricMusco]

Aside from the fact that you are cutting these questions short; another issue is that as several of the class reps have left, I know at least one more that is getting very busy and may be leaving the game due to RL. If these get delayed even further, some others might not be around as well...

 

This is certainly a valid concern and knowing that I just extended the timeframe they would need to be active, I will check back in with each rep closer to 2.5. We will replace any that have left to make sure no one is left out!

 

-eric

[cashogy_reborn]

So is this going to mean that we will see class balancing done based on the Class Rep feedback much sooner rather than later? If so, I support the decision to put the system on hold until after those changes are implemented.

[af_raptura]

It kind of sucks that you guys (BW) are cutting this short when the dialogue really just started. To be honest, I really don't think you guys will bring it back anytime soon. If Bioware is ending it, it seems like this is being done because they can't/don't want to sustain it on a regular basis.

 

Ah well, at least class balance in some form or another is confirmed for 2.5. I am going to ask Bioware to be extra careful with these changes. Let's face it, I don't think anyone really believes that balance changes are going to be made more frequently than in the past.

[SpaniardInfinity]

I know its cynical, but I have a feeling the class balance changes are going to be like:

 

- Removed the Trooper/Bounty Hunter and Consular/Inquisitor as playable classes. Players may only select Smuggler/Imperial Agent or Knight/Warrior as their class.

 

But hopefully the devs actually make good on their promise. They have a lot of history to disprove, so at this point, I'll believe it when I see it.

Edited September 18, 2013 by SpaniardInfinity

[zImperium]

Actually, I would say that not allowing 1 more round of Class Rep Questions is a terribad move. Its not understandable, because in every case, all of the people following the CR Responses have had more questions based on the answers. Not to mention that Shadow/Assassin has FIVE more questions we would like to ask, which aren't at all related to the previous round of questions.

 

Seriously, keep this thing going constant, and we will provide a fresh set of questions each round.

[Captainejo]

So is this going to mean that we will see class balancing done based on the Class Rep feedback much sooner rather than later? If so, I support the decision to put the system on hold until after those changes are implemented.

 

What is the ETA for 2.5? are we talking a week after 2.4 of 2 months??

[chuixupu]

It kind of sucks that you guys (BW) are cutting this short when the dialogue really just started. To be honest, I really don't think you guys will bring it back anytime soon. If Bioware is ending it, it seems like this is being done because they can't/don't want to sustain it on a regular basis.

 

Ah well, at least class balance in some form or another is confirmed for 2.5. I am going to ask Bioware to be extra careful with these changes. Let's face it, I don't think anyone really believes that balance changes are going to be made more frequently than in the past.

 

They said they'll start addressing again it for 2.5, so I'd hold them to that. I get the impression that they looked at the responses and realized they're being repetitive and risking getting more complaints about how they're not actually doing anything about the problems currently. I hope that we'll start seeing changes on the PTS shortly after 2.4 is released. Hopefully they can get dialogue going then to some degree.

[Kurin]

Eric, as I read the questions, in my opinion what I see is a disconnect between the class designers and Operations designers, regarding the DPS potential of every DPS spec'd class. I know that as part of a NiM Progression group, we are only bringing Gunslingers (3x) and Sentinals (1x). We tried to bring a Commando, and even in perfectly min-maxed gear he was still well behind what the Snipers were doing.

 

Simply put, the enrage timers don't allow any of the non-pure DPS classes to be included in a hard core operation group, because those classes are doing 10% (minimum) less damage than the "pure" DPS classes. And this is what I would say the core of the issue is with community rage.

 

In the next round of Q&A, answers to pure class questions, combined with some form of answer from the designers that make the Ops encounters sure would be nice. TIA

[Pilgrim_Grey]

What is the ETA for 2.5? are we talking a week after 2.4 of 2 months??

 

Yeah... not a week. They'll have to be fixing the inevitable bugs in 2.4 for the few weeks after it releases. And the 2.1, 2.2, 2.3 releases are seen as "major" releases, so there is more time spread out between them. Maybe we'll get lucky and see it in November, but if not, it starts getting a lot more iffy because of how the holidays work--from what I have seen of MMOs, they might have a holiday event, but they don't do much updating of their games from around Thanksgiving through the start of January.

 

Maybe they'll surprise us, but... I'm not holding my breath.

 

As for the whole thread again... I'm still not sure why Bioware couldn't make it through each of the classes at least. Heck, you could have announced a hiatus for when they were done NOW, and that would have made plenty of sense. The people working hard on the questions could plan for that, etc., and then Bioware can at least say that they had a good discussion with all eight groups and have some solid feedback for 2.5 and a little beyond. Cutting it short like this is going to generate more ill will than it will help any issues they're seeing with us having to wait for changes in game.

 

I really hope this isn't in response to players that were acting like they should get instant changes in game to their questions, as those expectations were unrealistic. At the moment, I'm more interested in the dialogue happening, and having that affect the game in a reasonable timeframe (and 2.4 and 2.5 works for that with me).

[Ancaglon]

Subscription renewal is cancelled, 55 days left. If some positive changes for Shadows/Assassins turns up on PTS before then, I'll renew (it's only been, what, 2 months since they said they were looking at tank spikiness with changes?). Seems to me that other people are doing similar things already, by the way the server populations seem to be plummeting again. Edited September 18, 2013 by Ancaglon