Class Representatives Update!

[Glower]

i lost my fate in this game , class balance should be a continues fix especcially with arena comeing and all you bin doing is cc market and some fluff fixes.

 

ended my sub you wont get a dime from me anymore, money driven * bleep *

 

^this

[AMightyKnight]

Rofl

I was actually expecting something like this after the h2f desaster. Sad to see that EA always manages to meet your expectations.

Fearing we would ask the same questions again - yeah sure, we re not stupid. Just say you decided to cancel them because this will end in a pr nightmare anyway and be done with it.

[Icebergy]

Interesting analogy, but you oversimplified it a bit.

 

If little Timmy hands his Christmas list to one parent (Eric Musco), who says that a pony would be a great thing for Santa to bring, people shouldn't blame Timmy for getting mad when he wakes up to find that not only did Santa not bring him a pony, but he took a bite out of every cookie and then pissed in the milk before he left.

 

And when Timmy's neighbor complains about not getting *his* pony, Santa says, "sorry", and gives him a Radio Flyer wagon. And when Timmy says, "What about me?", Santa says "Wait until your brother's birthday and we'll get you each one."

 

And now Santa just killed Timmy's brother, so still no pony for Timmy. Maybe he should just wait until next Christmas?

 

No I think my analogy was better. Yours didn't make any sense and mine is more in line with what actually happened.

[Benfynyn]

Interesting analogy, but you oversimplified it a bit.

 

If little Timmy hands his Christmas list to one parent (Eric Musco), who says that a pony would be a great thing for Santa to bring, people shouldn't blame Timmy for getting mad when he wakes up to find that not only did Santa not bring him a pony, but he took a bite out of every cookie and then pissed in the milk before he left.

 

And when Timmy's neighbor complains about not getting *his* pony, Santa says, "sorry", and gives him a Radio Flyer wagon. And when Timmy says, "What about me?", Santa says "Wait until your brother's birthday and we'll get you each one."

 

And now Santa just killed Timmy's brother, so still no pony for Timmy. Maybe he should just wait until next Christmas?

 

Wow! Santa is a ****!

 

EDIT: LOL I thought that would have been **** out. Guess I'll do that myself

Edited September 19, 2013 by Benfynyn

[Joesixxpack]

Couldn't even let all 16 classes get questions in huh? You guys do realize that several classes chose their questions predicated on the assumption that their mirrors would get a second set of three questions 8 weeks later? Now those follow up questions, which addressed issues that in many cases were arguably JUST as important as the issues actually raised, won't get mentioned at all.

 

Indeed, that was easily noticable from just skimming through the class rep threads.

 

The Class Rep idea is a good one. Kudos Eric for standing it up and devs and players participating.

 

It's not dialogue though yet, it's detached 1 shot Q & A. Next time how about a little back & forth. It's humanizing and adds necessary context. I'm sure you can figure out how to do that in a manageable manner.

 

The current method is only favored by politicians and Santa Claus. But even they autopen sign their comms.

Edited September 19, 2013 by Joesixxpack

[Joesixxpack]

Wow! Santa is a ****!

 

EDIT: LOL I thought that would have been **** out. Guess I'll do that myself

 

Oops I didn't see Santa was already being used as an example. Poor bastard's taking a beating ITT.

[EricMusco]

I wanted to cover some of the questions I have been seeing in the thread.

 

Are you just trying to kill the class rep system?

This is absolutely not my intent! I implore you, hold me to it. We will bring the Class Reps back after 2.5. If 2.5 comes out and you don't see me post something about it, PM me or make a thread. It may not come back the second 2.5 hits but shortly thereafter, so I will make sure to status update ASAP after the update.

 

We actually had 6 questions planned, now we don't get to ask the other 3. What about that?

This was one of my biggest concerns with putting the Class Rep system on hiatus as well. I think we can both agree the biggest point of concern here is that we want to make sure the Combat Team has knowledge of what each class feels their biggest issues are. This way, when changes are being made, they have a strong understanding of what the players are thinking.

 

Although I have been doing this all along during the top 3s, this is my plan to make sure this is not a problem. After the Merc/Sin top 3 come back, I am going to completely revisit everything for every class. Their original post gathering feedback for the top 3. Their final top 3 post. Our top 3 answers and the responses. I am going to take all of that information and compile it into a very large feedback report for each class and then pass that on to the Combat Team.

 

Now just to alleviate any confusion. This is something I often do as Community Manager, so this situation is not unique. What is unique is that the Combat Team very specifically is looking for this feedback, especially coming off the backs of the Class Rep system.

 

When is 2.5 coming out?

I don't have that information available yet but once I do, you will have it!

 

I know not everyone is happy with my decision to put the Class Rep system on hiatus, and I understand why. I promise that the intent was not to kill the discussion, that is the last thing I want. I will even try to pass back any relevant feedback I get from the Combat Team in our discussions. Also, as I stated before, look forward to blogs as we get closer to 2.5 explaining some of the changes that are coming.

 

Thanks everyone.

 

-eric

[ImpactHound]

I wanted to cover some of the questions I have been seeing in the thread.

 

Are you just trying to kill the class rep system?

This is absolutely not my intent! I implore you, hold me to it. We will bring the Class Reps back after 2.5. If 2.5 comes out and you don't see me post something about it, PM me or make a thread. It may not come back the second 2.5 hits but shortly thereafter, so I will make sure to status update ASAP after the update.

 

We actually had 6 questions planned, now we don't get to ask the other 3. What about that?

This was one of my biggest concerns with putting the Class Rep system on hiatus as well. I think we can both agree the biggest point of concern here is that we want to make sure the Combat Team has knowledge of what each class feels their biggest issues are. This way, when changes are being made, they have a strong understanding of what the players are thinking.

 

Although I have been doing this all along during the top 3s, this is my plan to make sure this is not a problem. After the Merc/Sin top 3 come back, I am going to completely revisit everything for every class. Their original post gathering feedback for the top 3. Their final top 3 post. Our top 3 answers and the responses. I am going to take all of that information and compile it into a very large feedback report for each class and then pass that on to the Combat Team.

 

Now just to alleviate any confusion. This is something I often do as Community Manager, so this situation is not unique. What is unique is that the Combat Team very specifically is looking for this feedback, especially coming off the backs of the Class Rep system.

 

When is 2.5 coming out?

I don't have that information available yet but once I do, you will have it!

 

I know not everyone is happy with my decision to put the Class Rep system on hiatus, and I understand why. I promise that the intent was not to kill the discussion, that is the last thing I want. I will even try to pass back any relevant feedback I get from the Combat Team in our discussions. Also, as I stated before, look forward to blogs as we get closer to 2.5 explaining some of the changes that are coming.

 

Thanks everyone.

 

-eric

 

The under-message is that all meaningful dialogue is stopping for 2 patches. Maybe post more, just to keep dialogue flowing? Even if it's just a trickle. One or two lunch-hour posts and another one just before you leave for the day to let people know the community managers actually want to interact with the community.

 

3 posts a work day, no exceptions!

[MillionsKNives]

I wanted to cover some of the questions I have been seeing in the thread.

 

Are you just trying to kill the class rep system?

This is absolutely not my intent! I implore you, hold me to it. We will bring the Class Reps back after 2.5. If 2.5 comes out and you don't see me post something about it, PM me or make a thread. It may not come back the second 2.5 hits but shortly thereafter, so I will make sure to status update ASAP after the update.

 

We actually had 6 questions planned, now we don't get to ask the other 3. What about that?

This was one of my biggest concerns with putting the Class Rep system on hiatus as well. I think we can both agree the biggest point of concern here is that we want to make sure the Combat Team has knowledge of what each class feels their biggest issues are. This way, when changes are being made, they have a strong understanding of what the players are thinking.

 

Although I have been doing this all along during the top 3s, this is my plan to make sure this is not a problem. After the Merc/Sin top 3 come back, I am going to completely revisit everything for every class. Their original post gathering feedback for the top 3. Their final top 3 post. Our top 3 answers and the responses. I am going to take all of that information and compile it into a very large feedback report for each class and then pass that on to the Combat Team.

 

Now just to alleviate any confusion. This is something I often do as Community Manager, so this situation is not unique. What is unique is that the Combat Team very specifically is looking for this feedback, especially coming off the backs of the Class Rep system.

 

When is 2.5 coming out?

I don't have that information available yet but once I do, you will have it!

 

I know not everyone is happy with my decision to put the Class Rep system on hiatus, and I understand why. I promise that the intent was not to kill the discussion, that is the last thing I want. I will even try to pass back any relevant feedback I get from the Combat Team in our discussions. Also, as I stated before, look forward to blogs as we get closer to 2.5 explaining some of the changes that are coming.

 

Thanks everyone.

 

-eric

 

Just to be pedantic and because this is the second time I've seen it, you mean the Shadow questions right? Assassin questions were slated for November.

[Yestreen]

I think Eric is trying to do something quite interesting here:

 

1. Round of Questions (1 month)
   
2. Balance Changes (1 month)
   
3. 2nd Round of Questions with mirror classes (1 month)
   
4. Balance Changes (1 month)
   

 

If that is the case, then I would be very happy as this would be a best-practice approach that makes sure developers and the community are always on the same page (or at least similar pages).

[hadoken]

I think Eric is trying to do something quite interesting here:

 

1. Round of Questions (1 month)
   
2. Balance Changes (1 month)
   
3. 2nd Round of Questions with mirror classes (1 month)
   
4. Balance Changes (1 month)
   

 

If that is the case, then I would be very happy as this would be a best-practice approach that makes sure developers and the community are always on the same page (or at least similar pages).

 

That's a rather optimistic guess on the timeframe.

[TUXs]

Eric, the big problem I see with you cancelling this for now is that, not all classes have been represented...I feel slighted by you skipping Commando just because you addressed Merc...that's unfair to those of us playing "mirror" classes because I didn't give any input on the Merc forums.

 

I understand your position and agree that it's better to wait until round 1 changes have been made, but geezus...you guys REALLY need to be doing stuff WEEKLY with class balance...it's been left alone since 2.0...since that time, the expansion has gone free to play for subs and we still haven't had any balancing?! You gotta move with a little sense of urgency guys...this is far too slow for an MMO...

[dscount]

I agree. History shows that the timeline is more likely 4-6 months for changes AFTER they actually admit we need them. Some of the time it's taking 6-12 months for them to see that picture.

 

Sorry Eric - but something "Maybe" in 2.5 for Class Balance and then another 2-4 months of "Fixing" that "Maybe" also doesn't exactly make people want to stick around while the Combat team get's its stuff organized.

 

I don't PVP, but I feel for those that do as they have been waiting for what 18 months now for new PVP content and PVP balance? Come to find out it doesn't look like a couple classes are going to get ANY balance. (Gee... that is not what was expected or hinted by your team)

[TUXs]

I think Eric is trying to do something quite interesting here:

 

1. Round of Questions (1 month)
   
2. Balance Changes (1 month)
   
3. 2nd Round of Questions with mirror classes (1 month)
   
4. Balance Changes (1 month)
   

 

If that is the case, then I would be very happy as this would be a best-practice approach that makes sure developers and the community are always on the same page (or at least similar pages).

 

- We've needed balance changes for 5-months (since 2.0)

- It's been more than a month since the 1st set of questions were asked

- It'll be a minimum of 8 more weeks (2-months) before we see 2.5

 

There is no "monthly" plan...it's taking far too freaking long for them to address ANY balance concerns and tbh, it's tiring. This shouldn't have been a flipping year long endeavor to get some balance...

[EricMusco]

Just to be pedantic and because this is the second time I've seen it, you mean the Shadow questions right? Assassin questions were slated for November.

 

Ddooooohhh... Yes sorry, I meant Shadow.

 

-eric

[Dedrayge]

Three questions doesn't seem to be quite enough.

 

I also don't know why they would let people ask questions about mercs in one round and then a few months later let people ask questions about commandos in another round. They are essentially the same class. So, why wouldn't they just let people ask six questions for mercs and commandos in one round. Make their changes, and then next round of questions let everyone ask another six.

 

I'm just using mercs and commandos as an example. So, obviously the same would apply for the other advanced classes.

[MaximusRex]

I wanted to cover some of the questions I have been seeing in the thread.

 

Are you just trying to kill the class rep system?

This is absolutely not my intent! I implore you, hold me to it. We will bring the Class Reps back after 2.5. If 2.5 comes out and you don't see me post something about it, PM me or make a thread. It may not come back the second 2.5 hits but shortly thereafter, so I will make sure to status update ASAP after the update.

 

We actually had 6 questions planned, now we don't get to ask the other 3. What about that?

This was one of my biggest concerns with putting the Class Rep system on hiatus as well. I think we can both agree the biggest point of concern here is that we want to make sure the Combat Team has knowledge of what each class feels their biggest issues are. This way, when changes are being made, they have a strong understanding of what the players are thinking.

 

Although I have been doing this all along during the top 3s, this is my plan to make sure this is not a problem. After the Merc/Sin top 3 come back, I am going to completely revisit everything for every class. Their original post gathering feedback for the top 3. Their final top 3 post. Our top 3 answers and the responses. I am going to take all of that information and compile it into a very large feedback report for each class and then pass that on to the Combat Team.

 

Now just to alleviate any confusion. This is something I often do as Community Manager, so this situation is not unique. What is unique is that the Combat Team very specifically is looking for this feedback, especially coming off the backs of the Class Rep system.

 

When is 2.5 coming out?

I don't have that information available yet but once I do, you will have it!

 

I know not everyone is happy with my decision to put the Class Rep system on hiatus, and I understand why. I promise that the intent was not to kill the discussion, that is the last thing I want. I will even try to pass back any relevant feedback I get from the Combat Team in our discussions. Also, as I stated before, look forward to blogs as we get closer to 2.5 explaining some of the changes that are coming.

 

Thanks everyone.

 

-eric

 

Hey Eric.

 

I don't want to sound ungrateful for your efforts to increase communications, but if this was the plan you should have had 9 questions, not just 3, with the specifications there would be a PvE, PvP, and Players Choice question for each of the 3 Tree Specializations for each of the advanced classes.

 

All classes were represented by this, but not all trees, Juggernaut for example had zero Immortal questions, but there are clearly some Immortal issues, like pure Immortal Specs not being as good as Hybrid for PvP, and the same with Immortal PvP gear, heck it even came up in your first Arena Stream. I'm hesitant to bring it up because I don't mean it as a bash against the Juggernaut community, I respect that they felt the issues with the other two trees were more pressing, but this hiatus in the communication makes me feel like the frustrations I deal with on a day to day basis as an Immortal Juggernaut aren't even important enough to be visible to the Combat Team. This now treats the concerns not talked about as if they are non-existent or unimportant, and has put even the chance to address these concerns several more months out at least before we even get to bring them up, and they might not even come out then if the community as a whole doesn't feel they are the top concerns.

 

It also seems strange to me that the Combat Team wants to try and make such limited balance changes in a vacuum of concerns from all 3 trees in an advanced class, as changes to address these currently unspoken concerns in the future might make changes made for 2.5 problematic with hybrid balance, forcing the Combat Team to back out of them, or radically alter them, creating frustration by putting how you play your character to be optimal into a constant state of flux.

 

I hope you'll take this into consideration.

Edited September 19, 2013 by MaximusRex

[DarthMaulUK]

Stupid idea anyway if I am being honest because essentially Bioware won't/can't change squat with classes, leave the broken abilities broken and then they are left wondering why the server numbers are dropping like a stone.

 

Communication and how Bioware speak to the community has been broken since 1.0 anyway and despite an improvement in 1.5, clearly these over paid forum moderators need to spend more time looking at stupid metrics which never paint the whole picture.

[NoFishing]

One thing what people might forget is that ALLTOUGH some questions won't be ansewered they still get heared by the combat team.

Just use the class rep post to discuss changes, offer opninions. The fact that we wont get a 2nd round doesnt mean Eric wont pass along good feedback.

 

This is what Eric keeps promising, and I have no reason to doubt it. But the value of this process for us wasn't in giving feedback to the combat team, which we've already been assured happens continually, it was in getting responses back from them. It was in the two-way dialog that SHOULD be ongoing.

 

Well, I guess we still have a two-way dialog, we just have to wait for patch notes to see what the combat team has to say now. And if the patch notes don't contain any changes for a class, the natural assumption will be that the combat team thinks the class is fine and doesn't intend to make any adjustments. This is the "perception problem" that this process was supposed to correct.

[Exeiro]

Who gives a damn about this now, the game is dieing anyway, only those buying milking cartel packs will stay in the game, server population is going down and down, it's stuck between light and medium and http://www.torstatus.net/ shows it as well Progenitor is second EU in population, and realy it's like pre server merge Edited September 19, 2013 by Exeiro

[Icebergy]

Stupid idea anyway if I am being honest because essentially Bioware won't/can't change squat with classes, leave the broken abilities broken and then they are left wondering why the server numbers are dropping like a stone.

 

Communication and how Bioware speak to the community has been broken since 1.0 anyway and despite an improvement in 1.5, clearly these over paid forum moderators need to spend more time looking at stupid metrics which never paint the whole picture.

 

I agree that it was a stupid idea. But it was stupid because this community is a bunch of spoiled children, as you so aptly demonstrated with this post.

[dscount]

I think it was a great idea.

 

I also held to the belief that nothing was going to be "fixed" or changed. CONFIRMED! They don't see the same things the respective classes are calling out as issues, therefore no changes are needed.

 

Which to me means.... Fast forward 3 month for 2.5 deployment and see little in the way of productive changes expected to whomever is left in the NON-FOTM classes that have not left the game still. When 2.4 drops so will some classes being used in PVP. I've already seen one guild dissolve on our server that did PVE progression and PVP as well a couple my fellow guild officers in my current guild throw in the towel due to lack of "Fixing" what a great many agree are broken classes for a while now. (Except DEV's have metrics, but don't play them)

 

Forward another month after that and we will see very similar "We are watching to see... " comments from the Combat DEV team via our moderators. (Which have in the last couple months been really good about publishing updates - good/bad at least its not like a year ago with nothing)

 

Sorry ERIC! Wait and see is getting old quick. Need to start making minor pebble move changes now or face a large mass exodus again. You guys got feedback, but seem to be unsure what to do with all of it at this point and it shows. Get the low hanging fruit and claim some victories ASAP! Your Combat team is contributing to the tanking of this game by not in some fashion (Even MINOR) addressing the overwhelming feedback on many things.

 

But it was stupid because this community is a bunch of spoiled children, as you so aptly demonstrated with this post.

 

I disagree with Icebergy on this one as calling people spoiled children because they want to see true "BALANCE" in the game. Not everyone can be perfect players like you and poop out rose petals in baggies.

Edited September 19, 2013 by dscount

[TUXs]

Which to me means.... Fast forward 3 month for 2.5 deployment and see little in the way of productive changes expected to whomever is left in the NON-FOTM classes that have not left the game still.

 

Forward another month after that and we will see very similar "We are watching to see... " comments from the Combat DEV team via our moderators.

Exactly what I see happening too. They refuse to believe feedback from their customers...been this way since beta.

[DarthMaulUK]

I agree that it was a stupid idea. But it was stupid because this community is a bunch of spoiled children, as you so aptly demonstrated with this post.

 

By telling the truth? Sure thing. Maybe you should go back to fanboy.com

[DarthMaulUK]

Exactly what I see happening too. They refuse to believe feedback from their customers...been this way since beta.

 

I think the majority of the long suffers have seen this carrot and stick approach from Biofail all too often now. Its become just as boring as the dailies.