Ansalem Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 Musco, we have seen a couple posts from you now in this thread. You admitted there was an issue with posting on fridays and no responses over the weekend. Can we ever expect an apology for friday's post and its dismissive and some feel insulting nature? There are a lot of upset people around here and maybe an apology would help right this ship or at least calm some people down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmjarec Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 I'm not sure that's entirely true. They were bringing up healing as an alternative to needing more defensive cooldowns, not as a penalty for lower dps (still ridiculous in most people's opinions, but different reasoning). Though I would be interested to hear if their opinion of sorc dps is so much 'that's a hybrid, not dps' that ends up being the case as well. The defensive cooldown answer certainly has me thinking they've altered their stance on class balance significantly (i.e. hybrid tax now enforced). Maybee you should realize first you still out dps assassins which are a melee class. Second you can heal so you shouldnt be top dps as well give up heals and you have a leg to stand on Assassins get nothing but lip service and nerfs they are the worst tanks and worst dps in the game there is zero reason to play them so for pete sake be happy you can out dps a sin and heal on top of that if sorcs are weak then sins are absolutely broken Bioware why do you refuse to adress sin tanking and dps problems while jumping on every other issue with vigor. Why continually ignore sins and drive players away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skaol-dirtyd Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 (edited) I'm not sure that's entirely true. They were bringing up healing as an alternative to needing more defensive cooldowns, not as a penalty for lower dps (still ridiculous in most people's opinions, but different reasoning). Though I would be interested to hear if their opinion of sorc dps is so much 'that's a hybrid, not dps' that ends up being the case as well. The defensive cooldown answer certainly has me thinking they've altered their stance on class balance significantly (i.e. hybrid tax now enforced). It does appear based on their response that they do in fact have a hybrid tax. Even though they have said since the beginning that there was not one. If that is the case and that is the stance they are going to take going forward, could those of us that chose this class for DPS purposes please get a 1 time class change into one that they view as a true DPS class. Just a thought. If nothing else take my heals away.... and give me more cowbell "Guess what? I got a fever, and the only prescription is more DPS! Edited August 27, 2013 by Skaol-dirtyd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 The main goal of the Cantina events is it is simply a great social gathering for players of SWTOR to come out and mingle with each other and with us. At the end of the day all of us in the studio are just gamers like all of you who love SWTOR. We just happen to also work on the project. I apologize if you feel we are not releasing enough tidbits of information at the events but that was never the intent. Plus, who doesn't like getting to eat and drink for free while talking about video games? -eric And they've been GOOD PR Eric. The players I know who have attended them have been very pleased coming back to tell us all about them. Some even resubbed after the tour. Please continue to do them - it's a great way to put a personal touch on "Bioware Austin" and an event that I have heard nothing but praise from! It also shows that not all of you are vile accountants trying to scam us out of our last dime...some of you are, that's for sure, but not all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hadoken Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 Maybee you should realize first you still out dps assassins which are a melee class. Second you can heal so you shouldnt be top dps as well give up heals and you have a leg to stand on Assassins get nothing but lip service and nerfs they are the worst tanks and worst dps in the game there is zero reason to play them so for pete sake be happy you can out dps a sin and heal on top of that if sorcs are weak then sins are absolutely broken Bioware why do you refuse to adress sin tanking and dps problems while jumping on every other issue with vigor. Why continually ignore sins and drive players away Keep in mind their attitude towards the hybrid nature of sorcs has a direct input on their 'perception' of balance with regards to assassins. You, too, are a hybrid if that is now a big deal to them. They may feel that having stealth/vanish and tank style cooldowns precludes you from also being able to do high dps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 Musco, we have seen a couple posts from you now in this thread. You admitted there was an issue with posting on fridays and no responses over the weekend. Can we ever expect an apology for friday's post and its dismissive and some feel insulting nature? There are a lot of upset people around here and maybe an apology would help right this ship or at least calm some people down? Screw the apology...what good would that do? What we ACTUALLY need is REAL responses...not dismissive comments. The issues that are presented are REAL, from the respective players...they deserved rational replies and that's what they are trying to get out now...give them a bit of time...and don't worry about the "apology"...it wasn't intentionally done to upset anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorAndy Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 Maybee you should realize first you still out dps assassins which are a melee class. Second you can heal so you shouldnt be top dps as well give up heals and you have a leg to stand on Assassins get nothing but lip service and nerfs they are the worst tanks and worst dps in the game there is zero reason to play them so for pete sake be happy you can out dps a sin and heal on top of that if sorcs are weak then sins are absolutely broken Bioware why do you refuse to adress sin tanking and dps problems while jumping on every other issue with vigor. Why continually ignore sins and drive players away I believe Assassin/Shadow questions/answers are the next to go according to the original schedule. Judging by the responses to the sorc answers this week, which I rarely see posts about (I don't frequent the class forums, but Assassin posts frequently spill out to general, unlike sorc until this weekend), the responses to the Assassin q/a's should be AWESOME!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-IceHawk- Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 (edited) Yes, mmjarec, we get it Sins have some serious concerns and you want immediate validation from the Developers. Considering that I was leveling a SinTank with a mind towards filling a hole in my Guild's group composition this is not exactly a point upon which the community does not commiserate with you on. Why you think antagonizing the Sorc Community is going to help however stymies me... Hadoken, Based on the response to Psi's first question the Combat Team considers direct comparisons between Sorcs and Mara/Snipers inherently invalid. This statement was clarified by pointing out that they were dedicated DPS classes and, by extension, Sorcs were not. This denotes a new design philosophy in which Sorcs are being reclassified as a Hybrid Class and the old 5% Standard is being jettisoned as inherently inapplicable. This carries some serious ramifications for the multitude of other "hybrids" including Mercs, Ops, Sins, and PTs. Edited August 27, 2013 by -IceHawk- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNahash Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 (edited) And the response to your question would be identical as the one to Psi's; Sorc are a Hyrbid class that can heal to full, therefore you must realize comparisons with pure DPS classes are inherently unfair and you most take into account off-healing abilities when you consider your AC's utility. This accomplishes nothing of substantive worth. Except it wouldn't be because Mercs can also heal themselves. Which is why Paowee said he would've compared them to Sorcs. Edited August 27, 2013 by TheNahash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilirubin Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 You guys are in a hopeless argument here, I really think you should just stop. There is no winning. Or get a room. The tension is palpable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHboy Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 I believe Assassin/Shadow questions/answers are the next to go according to the original schedule. Judging by the responses to the sorc answers this week, which I rarely see posts about (I don't frequent the class forums, but Assassin posts frequently spill out to general, unlike sorc until this weekend), the responses to the Assassin q/a's should be AWESOME!! I personally would change the schedule. The "tankassins" thread has already blown up, not sure I have the chutzpah to touch it before end of year But I'm sure Eric and Courtney will do an excellent job of squelching the flames as much as they can while getting burned themselves. Personally think after this they BOTH need a vacation AND a raise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Telanis Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 Hey Inflicktion, I am not entirely sure what you are upset about with our Cantina events specifically but I think you may misunderstand their purpose. The goal of our Cantina events was never to make big reveals around game content or anything like that. It would be a weird format to make announcements (typically) since it is only about 150-200 people in attendance. Although, we have certainly started to drop some cool tidbits out there via the thumb drives. As an example, we used the thumb drives to announce TaunTaun mounts coming to the game, certainly that is no small thing! The main goal of the Cantina events is it is simply a great social gathering for players of SWTOR to come out and mingle with each other and with us. At the end of the day all of us in the studio are just gamers like all of you who love SWTOR. We just happen to also work on the project. I apologize if you feel we are not releasing enough tidbits of information at the events but that was never the intent. Plus, who doesn't like getting to eat and drink for free while talking about video games? -eric Hey Eric, that was a ridiculously polite reply to a really offensive and kind of crazy post. Just wanted to say that the majority of us are happy and support you all at BioWare, and we're not posting much because we're content! So don't let the crazy posts get you down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-IceHawk- Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 (edited) Except they wouldn't be because Mercs can also heal themselves. Which is why Paowee said he would've compared them to Sorcs. Comparing Sorcs to one of the few classes they consistently out-perform in the same content both fails to express our concern and perpetuates the idea that "hybrid classes" are inherently different from the others. Also, I for one would like to see a number of similar concerns that Sorcs have addressed for the Mercs as well. Edited August 27, 2013 by -IceHawk- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorAndy Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 I personally would change the schedule. The "tankassins" thread has already blown up, not sure I have the chutzpah to touch it before end of year But I'm sure Eric and Courtney will do an excellent job of squelching the flames as much as they can while getting burned themselves. Personally think after this they BOTH need a vacation AND a raise I think that's all they have left. They've done 2 sets of mirrored ACs per week thus far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 And they've been GOOD PR Eric. The players I know who have attended them have been very pleased coming back to tell us all about them. Some even resubbed after the tour. Please continue to do them - it's a great way to put a personal touch on "Bioware Austin" and an event that I have heard nothing but praise from! It also shows that not all of you are vile accountants trying to scam us out of our last dime...some of you are, that's for sure, but not all /Agree with TUXs Eric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 /Agree with TUXs Eric. /bookmakred! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOHboy Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 I think that's all they have left. They've done 2 sets of mirrored ACs per week thus far. "Due to unforseen events, the next round of Q/A will be delayed until our forums stop burning." Only YOU can prevent Forum Fires! Please be courteous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paowee Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 (edited) Comparing Sorcs to one of the few classes they consistently out-perform in the same content Ok IceHawk now i am wondering how you came up with this. Sorc DPS does not out-perform Merc DPS in NiM end-game content. Maybe in some boss fights with a lot of AoE (16m NiM OP9 as Lightning) or boss fights where you can AoE and multi-doT (Lightning spec as well like 8-man NiM Cartel Warlords). How extensive is your DPS PVE experience as Lightning sorc in niM content? I am wondering why you think sorcs outperform Mercs (as DPS) in the same content. Mercs out DPS' Sorcs according to raid parses. They are both "hybrid" classes with healing and DPS specs. The question is asking how they plan to address this, if they even address it and see it as an issue at all. That is what we are trying to find out and a good opportunity to do so given t his Developer-Forum communiation program that they are doing. Edited August 27, 2013 by paowee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorAndy Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 "Due to unforseen events, the next round of Q/A will be delayed until our forums stop burning." Only YOU can prevent Forum Fires! Please be courteous. Oh! Wouldn't THAT be the ultimate slap in the face to the assassins! That would be amazing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNahash Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 Comparing Sorcs to one of the few classes they consistently out-perform in the same content both fails to express our concern and perpetuates the idea that "hybrid classes" are inherently different from the others. Also, I for one would like to see a number of similar concerns that Sorcs have addressed for the Mercs as well. Do you have any parses to back this up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dev Post EricMusco Posted August 27, 2013 Dev Post Share Posted August 27, 2013 Musco, we have seen a couple posts from you now in this thread. You admitted there was an issue with posting on fridays and no responses over the weekend. Can we ever expect an apology for friday's post and its dismissive and some feel insulting nature? There are a lot of upset people around here and maybe an apology would help right this ship or at least calm some people down? Hey Ansalem, I can assure you that it would never be our intent to post something where forum goers felt they were being spoken down to in a condescending way. I felt the post they made on Friday was just an honest assessment of where our development team feels the class is. I apologize if that rubbed some folks the wrong way though, since upsetting players with our post would never be our goal. Especially since the point of the Class Reps was to begin a dialog, we certainly don't want to jump that off on the wrong foot. Like I said prior, I think the timing and the way the post was handled could have been done better by us and it is something we will be careful of moving forward. Certainly I will take even more care with Class Rep top 3 responses in the future to insure that there is even less room for someone to misunderstand what we are saying and take offense. -eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reno_Tarshil Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 Hey Ansalem, I can assure you that it would never be our intent to post something where forum goers felt they were being spoken down to in a condescending way. I felt the post they made on Friday was just an honest assessment of where our development team feels the class is. I apologize if that rubbed some folks the wrong way though, since upsetting players with our post would never be our goal. Especially since the point of the Class Reps was to begin a dialog, we certainly don't want to jump that off on the wrong foot. Like I said prior, I think the timing and the way the post was handled could have been done better by us and it is something we will be careful of moving forward. Certainly I will take even more care with Class Rep top 3 responses in the future to insure that there is even less room for someone to misunderstand what we are saying and take offense. -eric /thread, Now Eric how about a response to my Blood Red thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickious Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 (edited) Ok we got a apology, the next person who makes a 'heal to full' and 'l2p' joke is excommunicated from the forums. Edited August 27, 2013 by Nickious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthehoyden Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 Ok we got a apology, the next person who makes a 'heal to full' and 'l2p' is excommunicated from the forums. Does that include the devs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorAndy Posted August 27, 2013 Share Posted August 27, 2013 Ok we got a apology, the next person who makes a 'heal to full' and 'l2p' is excommunicated from the forums. No matter which side of the "issue" you fall on, that music video parody was GREAT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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