Vanguard // Powertechs Top 3 Answers!

[OldSpiceSwag]

I hope you realize the utter absurdity of that statement.

 

A British writer Gk Chesterton once wrote that, given a man who many people report to be fat and many others report to be thin, the reality is that he is very likely a man of average weight.

 

If players from every class genuinely feel underpowered, then the reality is very likely that, for the most part, they are all even.

That doesn't mean there are not problems to be fixed. My point is that given the kind of across the board conflicting feedback they are are getting, what else do you expect them to think?

 

this could be true, except there are two obstacles that break that logic

 

1. (the weaker) jugg tanks, smash mara, mm sniper, op heals all perform far and away above the other classes in pretty much every facet

 

2. now i wouldnt of course say that every class is underpowered simply by comparing them to juggs, maras, snipers, and ops. that would be a terrible argument, and it would make much more sense to just say that those classes are over powered and everything else is balanced.

 

however, there are certain gauges for determining if a class is in the right spot, UP, or OP.

 

for starters, you can just go with the flat out dps potential each class brings by looking at pve parses. snipers and marauders are easily the top 2 damage dealers. shadow tanks can get 1 shot with a combination of crap design and rng. op healers can cast kolto probe x2 on every single member of a raid, 8m or 16m, and never run out of energy if played well. meanwhile, certain classes fall way short of dps or hps needed to down NiM content.

 

second, and from now on this will only draw pvp examples, you can just look at the abilities and mechanics of a class and how they do damage/heal to see that some are simply in different classes in arenas when damage potential is also taken into account. for example, contrary to what many say, op heals are actually closest to the right spot for arenas, they have the utility, the heal output, and the lol energy management necessary to heal their team while being pressured by a team of equal skill for the full 5 minutes if a complete stalemate ensues. jugg tanks have superior control, tons of def cds, and lots of damage mitigation on demand. mara dps does loads and loads of damage, and are actually only op because their cds make them very hard to kill. ap pt is close enough to being good enough that it can compete very well: they have good sustained damage, guaranteed burst every 1.5s, and are pretty tanky, with taunts as viable utility.

 

now compare op heals with sorc heals. instant mez vs 2 s cast. 1 excellent cd reduced by any damage and 1 meh cd vs an oh **** button that basically puts you in a 10s mez. instant, free spammable direct heals vs a 3s channel. rolling, instant hots with no internal debuff cd vs a preventative bubble that can only be used once every 20s and absorbs like what 4k? cover vs nothing. vanish vs nothing. roll vs speed (damn sorc won one).

 

compare jugg tank with shadow tank. dont feel like outlining it all again plus i havent played jugg tank in ages, so: spam slow vs wither. leap>reset cd on interupt+push vs what pull? focused def vs 3s channel on FL. aoe taunt bubble. on demand mitigation. guardian freakin leap. vs nothing.

 

smash mara: oh **** button on 1min, cloak of pain long uptime, no ramp up time for the biggest single target and aoe burst in the game, leap, saber throw slow, camo, mez, obliterate-break roots, root, leap

 

vs

 

pyro pt: mediocre dps, crap dots, small nuke (rail shot), bad cds, only utility is taunt/pull sort of

 

deception sin: big out of stealth burst but not good sustained, decent cds offset by being really squishy, taunts, 2 stuns 1 on a small cd, positioning for mauls, esp with lag, can be frustrating and hard, vanish every what 1.5s? slow

 

veng jugg: taun, guardian leap, not so squishy, decent burst but with a pretty decent ramp up time plus dots get cleansed, slow but not spammable, unremitting is a very good talent

 

conc ops: lol

 

madness sorcs: awful force management, cleansable dots, goodluck ever getting crushing darkness to get more than 2 ticks on an op

 

lightning sorc: very good burst when left along, but a kiting class whose burst is mostly based on casts is fundamentally flawed. other than that no cds besides oh **** 10s aoe mez button, 2s cast mez, ok kiting skills

 

mercs: eh theyre ok i suppose

 

as you can see i severely lost my thunder and slowed down towards the end, but you get my point.

Edited August 25, 2013 by OldSpiceSwag

[kozzie]

3 things really

 

1.) Oldspiceswag is correct and logical in all his posting i have seen. Ie. sent/mara responses.

The response is factual and not of opinion if you are unable to see/tell the difference in the demeanor of the 3 responses(mara/sorc/pt) then you shouldn't reply due to how obvious it is.

 

2.) SkoLops(spelling?) I'm sorry my man, Your logic and argument are flawed its nice u want to add your perception (see what i did there?) But please just stop, You can't defend Bioware they made there intentions obvious.

 

3.) I fail to understand what everyone is so mad about. Bioware did nothing but tell the honest truth. Our perception is flawed and wrong. The perception that bioware actually cares about "you" the consumer and that u are more then just another $15 a month to them is wrong. My question is why are you surprised did you not realize this at the end of Mass effect 3?? Want to get there attention? unsub and don't buy their product. Hurt their wallets and they shall listen. Money is the root of all evil,people are the root of all evil

[OldSpiceSwag]

3 things really

 

1.) Oldspiceswag is correct and logical in all his posting i have seen. Ie. sent/mara responses.

The response is factual and not of opinion if you are unable to see/tell the difference in the demeanor of the 3 responses(mara/sorc/pt) then you shouldn't reply due to how obvious it is.

 

2.) SkoLops(spelling?) I'm sorry my man, Your logic and argument are flawed its nice u want to add your perception (see what i did there?) But please just stop, You can't defend Bioware they made there intentions obvious.

 

3.) I fail to understand what everyone is so mad about. Bioware did nothing but tell the honest truth. Our perception is flawed and wrong. The perception that bioware actually cares about "you" the consumer and that u are more then just another $15 a month to them is wrong. My question is why are you surprised did you not realize this at the end of Mass effect 3?? Want to get there attention? unsub and don't buy their product. Hurt their wallets and they shall listen. Money is the root of all evil,people are the root of all evil

 

THANK YOU i may be a total d*ck on these forums, but i am a correct d*ck

[Mikroswitch]

So let me get this right and Don't get me wrong, I'm not happy with the replies either but .......

 

We asked our questions (scenarios) in a wall of text with little or no formatting and when we got replies that some wasn't wanting or expecting because imho we did kind of ask for too much in a roundabout way in the first three questions we had. (remember Rome wasn't built in a day) So instead of our class rep using his or her position to ask/clarify reasonings behind each reply and maybe try to get some real change to those replies, they decide to throw one of the largest "Emo-fits" on the planet and quit their position and spam the forums which any parent knows doesn't reward children with anything.

 

 

Yep the Vanguard (and by default Powertech) is screwed!!! And let's hope the Hunter's have learnt from this debacle and ask more concise more realistic of getting something changed questions.

 

/over to you Hunters!!

[Kynesis]

This reasoning is, I think, deeply flawed. They should listen to the class reps? Certainly not without an extremely critical eye. By the very nature of the "position," class reps are going to suggest all kinds of things that would make their class too strong. I don't say this to disparage the players of this game by any means - i'm one of them after all. However, people are people. Given the chance to speak about something that they have a vested interest in, most people are going to "take advantage of it."

 

Sure, they shouldn't be ignored, but they shouldn't just be listened to as if their suggestions are golden. Do you want evidence? Just look at the threads in the PTS forums.

 

Sorcerers are underpowered.

Powertechs are underpowered.

Mercenaries? Also underpowered.

Operative DPS are underpowered.

Assassins are underpowered.

 

EVERYONE is underpowered!!!!

 

The point is that everyone is saying their class is broken and underpowered. It's the way it works in these games. The questions were all the same: every class just had 3 questions about how their class is underpowered in one way or another. That's why they can't simply listen to the reports of class reps or anyone else. They need to see more than that.

 

The above is what you normally get from the rabble of a forum and is totally suitable when you're talking about the noise of hundreds of individual voices.

That misses the whole point of using a class representative - which was to distill the most important issues from the masses of opinion and debate among the many people of all ranges of skill and interests and to have them presented by a spokesperson who as judged by the community, best understands the issues at hand and can present them in a reasonable and responsible fashion.

 

The issues brought forth are those that need to be taken seriously, regardless of the Dev's opinions because the people who devote their free time to this hobby find that despite the devs best intentions and thorough analysis, things aren't working as well as they need to or because players have found through many, many hours of personal experience that there are pieces missing from the puzzle.

 

Soliciting the legitimate concerns of an individual or a community and then dismissing them is the epitome of shooting ones-self in the foot.

 

In case there's any doubt - the correct answer, of the least committal is something along the lines of "Well.. we don't agree that these issues are as serious as people think, but that in itself means that we need to investigate them. We'll figure out why our perceptions don't match and work to bridge the gap."

 

*edit: not because it sounds diplomatic (though obviously I place some weight on that), but because there is a serious disconnect between the devs intentions and understanding and the real world application of their creations.

 

Having said all that, I also recognise that they're under a great deal of pressure on all fronts and that mmo players particularly are demanding and often hold mmo game makers to very high standards, much higher than they might of... pretty much anything, because there is such a level of investment.

Edited August 25, 2013 by Kynesis

[Ottoattack]

This reasoning is, I think, deeply flawed. They should listen to the class reps? Certainly not without an extremely critical eye. By the very nature of the "position," class reps are going to suggest all kinds of things that would make their class too strong. I don't say this to disparage the players of this game by any means - i'm one of them after all. However, people are people. Given the chance to speak about something that they have a vested interest in, most people are going to "take advantage of it."

 

Sure, they shouldn't be ignored, but they shouldn't just be listened to as if their suggestions are golden. Do you want evidence? Just look at the threads in the PTS forums.

 

Sorcerers are underpowered.

Powertechs are underpowered.

Mercenaries? Also underpowered.

Operative DPS are underpowered.

Assassins are underpowered.

 

EVERYONE is underpowered!!!!

 

The point is that everyone is saying their class is broken and underpowered. It's the way it works in these games. The questions were all the same: every class just had 3 questions about how their class is underpowered in one way or another. That's why they can't simply listen to the reports of class reps or anyone else. They need to see more than that.

 

From a PvP perspective we have 24 trees among 8 AC. Which of them are optimal or serve a function in RWZ:

 

Immortal Jugg, main tank.

Darkness Sin, solo defending node. Other than that barely any use.

Healing operatives.

Rage marauder, dps.

Carnage marauder, dps. Most likely will be rage and respec carnage as need.

Sniper all three trees.

Rage Jugg, inferior to rage marauder, but can be used and tank can respec as need.

Arsenal Merc.

 

That's it. Optimal RWZ composition includes 10 trees optimal which are concentrated in 3 classes (marauders, snipers Jugg), then 3 classes have 1 optimal spec. Sorc and PT have no optimal specs. How is this balanced? Again there are a couple of viable specs, like corruption sorc, but are not optimal by any means.

 

Viable trees for RWZ:

 

Shield tech.

Dec sin.

Corruption sorc.

Lightning sorc.

Body guard merc (arguably not viable).

Vengeance jugg.

 

Trees that are not viable for RWZ:

 

Pyro PT

AP PT (probably will move to viable in 2.4).

Pyro merc.

Madness sin.

Dps ops both trees.

Annihilation marauder.

Madness sorc.

 

Bottom line for end game PvP we have 10 optimal specs, 6 viable specs and 8 unviable specs. We may disagree regarding some, but the result is not going to be much different. Why sorc, sins and PTs have a problems? Because they do not have any optimal trees, aside for solo defending node for sin.

 

PTs specifically have 1 viable spec and 2 non-viable specs, with none of the three being optimal. That's why much was riding on 2.4 class balance and the devs responses to questions. Apparently, it's all in our head and we have perception problem.

[Slurmez]

LOL

 

Not only do the devs outright troll almost the entire playerbase but they lack to courage to put their names to the inane dross that they are spewing out. Beyond cowardly but I understand why they want to hide, the remaining devs are not there on the back of their skills but their ability to keep their heads down and to politic within.

 

These people are all design by accountants and havent come to terms with what a monumental design failure this game has been, yeah its making some money off the back of the stupidity of people who buy all these packs now but theres a problem when your core market is buoyed by fashion and thats people will find something newer and shinier.

 

One day a dev will actually see how something plays as opposed to the cold numbers they can pull from their precious "metrics", for the devs, who are but a few people to claim they know better and more than the collective playerbase is just idiocy, its been proven again and again that if you match devs against the players they will come up short and Im not just talking about playing skills.

 

Its almost like they are trying to bury their own game but hell, we all knew they didnt have the vaguest understanding of pvp when each time they bleated on about something amazing in the works all we got was crap, remember the hyperbole about the ilum redesign? LOL

[Macroeconomics]

Just look at the threads in the PTS forums.

 

Sorcerers are underpowered.

Powertechs are underpowered.

Mercenaries? Also underpowered.

Operative DPS are underpowered.

Assassins are underpowered.

 

EVERYONE is underpowered!!!!

 

The point is that everyone is saying their class is broken and underpowered.

 

This is true. Which is why the devs shouldn't listen to what the player base SAYS. They should look at what the player base DOES. Instead of listening to gripes/begging from the class representatives, BW should look at which classes are used by teams that win ranked warzones. Those classes that are overrepresented are by proxy the best measure of what the player base views as the best pvp classes. Similarly BW should measure which classes are used by pve teams that beat NiM S&V. Those classes that are underrepresented are by proxy the best measure of what the player base views as the worst pve classes.

 

BW has the means to measure this. Instead they persist in using flawed metrics like meta averages to guild class balance.

[Brunner_Venda]

I know that by saying this, I am going to get flamed, called an idiot or probably other choice words...but:

 

Grow up guys.

 

I view myself as an active member of PT/VG community, and while I feel your pain, I also recognize that acting like children will get us nothing. Repeatedly posting "perception problem" in red/white/blue that takes up an entire page is not how we want to be viewed.

 

Am I frustrated with the combat team's responses? You bet. But if we want to be taken seriously, we need to act seriously. Ever wonder why Shadow/Sin tanks got the response from BioWare a few weeks back stating that their complaints about spike damage in NiM operations were under review? It's because they presented their thoughts/opinions with data/metrics, not just "I can't kill healers anymore in PVP and in PVE no one likes my class!"

 

In all honesty, our questions were terrible. Even mine, which was the 2nd question, was worded terribly. I couldn't read question 1 and 3 without getting lost. How can we expect rational answers when we give them irrational questions? I'm not solely blaming mrfourcustom here. In general, the VG/PT community was very poor at getting organized for this window of opportunity.

 

We still have our Powertech questions coming up in October. Let's learn from this, and come better prepared next time.

 

I agree the questions should have been more specific. For the PT question, we should stick to specific abilities, and compare them to others in our own spec. I. E. Degauss is a top tier Pyro ability that does the same thing as hold the line/hydraulic overrides, except that it doesn't confer immunity to CC for six seconds. It doesn't compare to the top tier abilities such as prototype weapon systems or rebraced armor. Any chance you can address this and make it worth taking?

 

We can even check our tone a bit, although there no way in hell we should chap out lips kissing Peckinpaugh's backside. Just keep it even and stick to the facts.

[easeyway]

Oh but wait... lets take a look over at the operative:

 

Resuscitation Probe

Orbital Strike

Corrosive Dart

Fragmentation Grenade

Snipe (if the operative goes into cover... but who does that?)

Explosive Probe (same as above)

Rifle Shot (auto attack)

 

Soooo discounting the healing abilities (hey if I wasn't going to count tanking stuff, can't count these either), I count guess what? 7 abiltiies... 2 of which are completely worthless and should never be touched... which makes a PT and an OP sit on the same level as far as 30m "options" (and yes I do count the BREZ as an "option" because it is on the same level as grapple... and NOT a healing ability)

 

So that puts OPs and PTs at 5 ranged attacks which have SOME kind of use.

http://www.torparse.com/a/353755/time/1374765726/1374766035/0/Damage+Dealt

what is that? Is that an OP pulling 3200 on a dummy (compared to at best 3100 on a dummy using the Hybrid spec... pyro... not even close... at waaaaaay less than 2700)

 

So where is the "fairness" there... we are both "ranged" classes, with "ranged" options. I don't see them taking a dramatic hit because they have "options" other melee classes don't at 30m.

 

1 million times this.

 

The answers were bad, but us having "ranged" options after 1.4 nerf to both TD and IM, is beyond ridiculous. Put them back to 30m and we can talk.

 

Also, this:

 

I agree the questions should have been more specific. For the PT question, we should stick to specific abilities, and compare them to others in our own spec. I. E. Degauss is a top tier Pyro ability that does the same thing as hold the line/hydraulic overrides, except that it doesn't confer immunity to CC for six seconds. It doesn't compare to the top tier abilities such as prototype weapon systems or rebraced armor. Any chance you can address this and make it worth taking?

Edited August 25, 2013 by easeyway

[Ansalem]

Hey BW this is how you are supposed to respond to bad questions...

 

 

looks like the devs of that game actually know what they are doing...

[Dedrayge]

In all honesty, our questions were terrible. Even mine, which was the 2nd question, was worded terribly. I couldn't read question 1 and 3 without getting lost. How can we expect rational answers when we give them irrational questions? I'm not solely blaming mrfourcustom here. In general, the VG/PT community was very poor at getting organized for this window of opportunity.

 

We still have our Powertech questions coming up in October. Let's learn from this, and come better prepared next time.

 

Question 1 definitely looks like a mess. I mean, it starts talking about defensive abilities for shadows then moves into guardians where force leap is mentioned. Force leap is an offensive ability, so, it makes no sense for it to have been listed. Stuns also happened to be omitted and in reality, the full list of utility each class has was never mentioned.

 

There's also the fact the comparison was just between the three tanking classes yet moved in to only address the DPS specs. So, tank utility was completely omitted as well. And if you are going to focus on DPS specs then there needed to be a comparison to what other DPS specs from other classes bring to the table.

 

 

So I do agree, with the PT questions still to come, everyone should come better prepared. I mean, the dev did state they where willing to address the issues instead of a simply saying "You have a perception problem. Working as intended, **** off". So we may be able to use the PT questions to disprove this alleged perception problem and get them to address the issues.

 

Also, PT questions are a good time to point out how some other classes do extra damage to a target below 30% health on top of having DoTs and an execute. I mean the answer to the second question was just horrendously dumb.

 

I'm also wondering when the dev received the questions, when they where answered, and how long it took to post them. Can't help but wonder if the dev had even bothered looking for the PTS feed back prior to answering the question.

[mfourcustom]

Question 1 definitely looks like a mess. I mean, it starts talking about defensive abilities for shadows then moves into guardians where force leap is mentioned. Force leap is an offensive ability, so, it makes no sense for it to have been listed. Stuns also happened to be omitted and in reality, the full list of utility each class has was never mentioned.

 

There's also the fact the comparison was just between the three tanking classes yet moved in to only address the DPS specs. So, tank utility was completely omitted as well. And if you are going to focus on DPS specs then there needed to be a comparison to what other DPS specs from other classes bring to the table.

 

 

So I do agree, with the PT questions still to come, everyone should come better prepared. I mean, the dev did state they where willing to address the issues instead of a simply saying "You have a perception problem. Working as intended, **** off". So we may be able to use the PT questions to disprove this alleged perception problem and get them to address the issues.

 

Also, PT questions are a good time to point out how some other classes do extra damage to a target below 30% health on top of having DoTs and an execute. I mean the answer to the second question was just horrendously dumb.

 

I'm also wondering when the dev received the questions, when they where answered, and how long it took to post them. Can't help but wonder if the dev had even bothered looking for the PTS feed back prior to answering the question.

Agreed buff jugs!

[manchusabre]

Same answer for 2 questions. Were there no better questions asked?

[that_Spartan_IV]

 

In short, this is a perception problem, and it is one that you admit didn’t exist when Assault Specialist dealt more damage. When Assault Specialist damage goes up, will this perception issue go away? If not, we’ll address the issue, but we aren’t looking to make massive improvements that would only tip the scales in the other direction.

 

 

So they're calling us stupid.....

 

How about you guys play as Vanguards then and really see if it is a perception problem.

 

If you won't, then **** off.

[AlyxDinas]

These answers are beyond dismissive. These, along with the Sorc answers, sounds like you just flat out don't give a damn about the class. These classes struggle and the meta reflects this. The PTS changes are not sufficient; these classes need a much needed examination, with parses on real enemies and not dummies.

 

Seriously, the test dummy argument needs to stop. No one is testing and parsing on them for their data.

[ZarthMan]

We are sorry that the community feels this way about the Powertech. The short list you gave for the Powertech was only one item behind the lists you gave for Shadows and Guardians. The road of comparison only leads to disappointment, and I believe many Guardians and Shadows are disappointed in their 30-meter range options, while Powertechs have many options when they are beyond melee range. Guardians and Shadows also can’t use Shoulder Cannon to damage enemies while they are stunned or to add a bit of extra burst when they aren’t stunned. Powertechs wear heavier armor than Shadows and have much better long-range capabilities than Guardians.

 

In short, this is a perception problem, and it is one that you admit didn’t exist when Pyrotech dealt more damage. When Pyrotech damage goes up, will this perception issue go away? If not, we’ll address the issue, but we aren’t looking to make massive improvements that would only tip the scales in the other direction.

 

- Its the synergy and usefulness of our current cool downs that make them inferior.

- Kolto Overload is not good enough as a cool down. As a tank 80% if the time I still die through the cool down in nightmare modes, PvP while I dps I am still within execute range.

- Pyro tree defensive talents are very lackluster, when you see a pyrotech or play one they are No.1 on the target list as they die very quickly and can be killed through their defensive cool downs.

- Unless you are specced AP shoulder cannon does not add enough burst to the current abilities to equal that of other classes and its lengthy cool down means it is down for most encounters in PvP.

- Pyro tree has always relied on its high burst to pull through battles while other classes were bought up in survivability and burst with the release of 2.0 Pyro Powertechs were nerfed (Armour Penetration on rail shout, Thermal Detonator Burst, Combustible Gas Cylinder halved in damage, Survivability talents were moved to AP). The tree was cut in to many places. The developers perception is that its balanced is way off yes we have some nice 30m abilities none of these allow us to perform our roles better than the other classes. (Missile Blast and Unload being the greatest offenders.)

 

 

---

 

We never intend for hybrids to outperform the 36-point builds, and this is exactly what we addressed in the 2.4 update. Players should now find that both Immolate and Thermal Detonator deal more damage than they did previously. In addition, the Pyrotech should see some of its burst make a return in 2.4. At your convenience, I highly encourage you to copy your Powertech over to the PTS and try out the new Advanced Prototype and Pyrotech builds, along with the hybrid builds. The 36 point builds should outperform the hybrids now.

 

Please keep in mind that Pyrotech will perform considerably worse on a target dummy than it does in a real combat situation. There are two primary reasons for this. The most obvious reason is that the Burnout skill does not get its full effect on a target dummy, because a target dummy never falls below 30% health. The less obvious reason is because only around 48% of an Pyrotech’s damage ignores armor, while for Advanced Prototype this number is around 65%. This means that the Pyrotech has more to gain in situations where an armor debuff is present on the target, as should be the case in an operation.

 

- The pure builds are still not where they need to be in comparison to other classes.

- Burnout does not increase our DPS enough to contend with Mara's and Snipers for cutting edge progression content.

- I play on a consistent 200 ping as do the rest of my guild as we play from Australia. When a class under performs compared others it is a liability with a ping at 200. You lose roughly 200dps and unless your pulling maximum damage some of the nightmare encounters were impossible taking PT or Assassin DPS.

 

 

 

 

 

2.4 is bringing a DPS upgrade to both Powertech damage dealing specializations, as well as a burst upgrade for Pyrotechs and a harder-hitting Immolate for Advanced Prototype. These upgrades should make Powertech damage dealers more competitive in PvP, with faster TTKs than before, and intrinsically more survivability because of that.

 

- AP changes are a step in the right direction still missing something though. Immolate still needs to do something more 7k crit is nice but still lagging behind the other classes.

- Pyro changes are awful Thermal Det needs more burst more towards 8k mark and less reliance on DoT damage.

- Pyro survivability needs to be addressed as well but not at the expense of AP.

- TTK has not really been addressed with Pyro as you moved numbers around not increased them and not significant enough in the burst department.

- Also while you have addressed some DPS concerns tank spec needs some love as well. While not as bad off as the other 2 specs it is still missing some uniqueness over Juggernaut or Assassin.

[Huez]

You guys can always switch your advanced class to Mercenary

oh wait...

[BARSAL]

Let's put in their terms, ehem, "We are sorry your combat team is stupid and think that the players who actually PLAY the game, and not just right stuff down on paper, are wrong. Please except our sincerest apologies for how terrible the combat team is at listening to it's community. I would love to see them, THE COMBAT TEAM, on the PTS playing arenas with classes that are clearly not up to par." Thanks

[DarthOvertone]

perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem, perception problem,

 

My man. I think you've gone off the deep end...

 

Clearly you are NOT Taunting2Full.

 

lol

 

 

The Wildstar devs actually really love their players.

 

Why do peeps care if the Devs love them or not? Honestly. I don't give a rip about the Devs caring. I don't even want their attention or care who they are. I just want them to get the d*mn game right so it's fun for all.

 

P.S. Wildstar is cartoon garbage and will go over like a lead zeppelin. Have fun with that one! lulz

 

 

How about you guys play as Vanguards then and really see if it is a perception problem.

 

Oh...they did. And they got smoked something fierce...in EVERY SINGLE GAME. haha

[iamthehoyden]

"The road of comparison only leads to disappointment..."

First, the idea that classes should not be compared to each other is ludicrous. This is a game where there is pvp and group activities in which decisions must be made as to which players in which classes to bring to a match or encounter. Comparisons are part and parcel of the deal and OF COURSE they are going to happen.

 

"In short, this is a perception problem, and it is one that you admit didn’t exist when Assault Specialist dealt more damage. When Assault Specialist damage goes up, will this perception issue go away? If not, we’ll address the issue, but we aren’t looking to make massive improvements that would only tip the scales in the other direction."

This is a very...poor choice of words. It is not a perception problem. The issue is that assault dps burst used to provide us with a tool that was useful and provided a level of competitiveness. That tool is now gone, so assault spec vanguards are left lesscompetitive. That's not a perception issue, that's a 'the spec was significantly changed and now is less effective' issue.

 

In the sage and van responses, I'm seeing a lot of this idea that because these are not pure dps classes that somehow we should be happy with less dps than a sentinel or slinger. That ignores the reality of an op group...if you're going in as dps, you'd better be able to deliver the numbers. Taunts and heals are utility tools, much as slingers and sentinels have tools that can defend or buff a group. They are not a replacement for dps output.

[Ottoattack]

Fyi, devs actually responded back on sorc forums.

 

Hey everyone,

 

I think the expectations for the Class Representative program kind of got lost along the way this week. While I totally understand and expect that there will be a multitude of opinions towards the responses we post, I do want to reiterate what we originally posted when we started this program:

 

“Our number one goal is to get your questions answered. We have known for some time that players have had Class balance questions, and it has been tricky to get them answered. The purpose of this initiative is to get those questions addressed as directly as possible. I want to make sure we stress the following things:

 

• It is possible, and even likely, that we could disagree with player sentiment towards something in relation to Class balance. Ex: Why does <insert class> suck at <insert thing>?! We may respond that we feel they are in a good place in our design goals and we will do our best to explain why.
  
• Attaching feedback to your top 3 in no way guarantees that it will be feedback that is actionable. The purpose is to allow a set dialog between our Combat Team and you here on the forums. Just because something appears in the top 3 provided by a representative does not mean it is feedback that will garner special treatment.
  
• Class Representatives are player elected and will not be granted any special access to the BioWare team. If chosen, you won’t have to sign an NDA or anything similar. You will be a player-elected forum user who assists your Class in formulating the top issues and concerns you would like to have BioWare commentary on.
  
• As with all things on the forums, please remain respectful. Please respect each other, your chosen Class Representatives, and the BioWare developers.”
  

 

This does not mean we are dismissing anything you say in your questions or the feedback you are giving to our answers. I personally have had James Blunt stuck in my head all day thanks to this thread. However, Please do remember bullet points 1, 2, and 4.

 

It is pretty terrible reply, but apparently VG/PT community is not worth it.

[Luxidenstore]

Fyi, devs actually responded back on sorc forums.

 

 

 

It is pretty terrible reply, but apparently VG/PT community is not worth it.

 

Nah, we're mentally challenged.

 

It was a ****** "reply" anyway.

Edited August 26, 2013 by Luxidenstore

[OldSpiceSwag]

Fyi, devs actually responded back on sorc forums.

 

 

 

It is pretty terrible reply, but apparently VG/PT community is not worth it.

 

might be because we have you beat by 30 some pages

Edited August 26, 2013 by OldSpiceSwag

[Luxidenstore]

might be because we have you beat by 30 some paged

 

So it's a competition about getting the most whine into pages, that decides if it's okay to insult people? Okay, sure.