Vanguard // Powertechs Top 3 Answers!

[ausmisc]

Agreed. The added survivability is long overdue for the Pyro/Assault spec, but the class still needs more incentive for players to invest 36+ points in the tree. TD/AP is still a bit lacking for a top tier ability in my opinion, and should be reverted back to it's original pre 2.0 state. It's both a blessing and a curse that it has a delay on its damage, so I think the fact that it's delayed means it should be all upfront damage and critting in the range of 6-8k for a well geared player.

 

I'm also still a bit unsure about flameburst only having a 60% chance to apply CGC, still waiting for the bug to be resolved so I can test this on the PTS. I think it makes more sense to have flameburst @ 100% chance and RP @ 60%.

Edited August 28, 2013 by ausmisc

[Luckyluzi]

Agreed. The added survivability is long overdue for the Pyro/Assault spec, but the class still needs more incentive for players to invest 36+ points in the tree. TD/AP is still a bit lacking for a top tier ability in my opinion, and should be reverted back to it's original pre 2.0 state. It's both a blessing and a curse that it has a delay on its damage, so I think the fact that it's delayed means it should be all upfront damage and critting in the range of 6-8k for a well geared player.

 

I'm also still a bit unsure about flameburst only having a 60% chance to apply CGC, still waiting for the bug to be resolved so I can test this on the PTS. I think it makes more sense to have flameburst @ 100% chance and RP @ 60%.

 

please test the changes befor complaining - assault plastique can crit for 6-6,5k damage actualy, they buffed its base damage from 2000 (live server) to 3200(pts) (over 30% more!) and the dot still ticks for like 1,3k on crits with the new pvp set,

 

high impact bolt + assault pl is very good burst atm , the problem on pts is the dps...

 

sry for my bad english

Edited August 28, 2013 by Luckyluzi

[hallucigenocide]

is it just me or does'nt it seem weird to have stock strike/rocket punch trigger a burning effect?

 

anyway please redo the changes to plasma cell.. as i pvp i rely on it's application from hammer shots alot

and it is probably a bigger nerf to pvp than you think.

[ScytheEleven]

I think that reverting Thermal Det back to its pre-2.0 mechanic (no DoT) will give it back a lot of the missing burst. We made a bit of progress on that front so far with the moderate change, but we need them to remove the DoT entirely.

 

TD pre-2.0 form was terrible for PVE players. Post-2.0, with the DoT attached, it's slightly better, but still not where it needs to be. Hence why I suggested adding armor penetration to it so it increases it's burst for PVP and overall damage for PVE.

 

hmm wouldn't 15% be a lot?

 

I'm not sure, honestly. I am basing the 15% off of the pre-2.0 Rail Shot armor penetration number, which was 90% (currently at 75%).

 

What I'm waiting for is for the CGC bug to get fixed on the PTS, so I can parse again. Then, I'm going to take the average DPS of three Pyro parses, and multiply that by 3% (for Burnout). Once that's done, I'm going to have someone much smarter than me (cough cough KBN cough) figure out what the DPS would've been with an armor debuff. Take that number, and then figure out how much more DPS would be gained from 15% armor penetration on Rail Shot and TD.

 

My guess is a 2500 parse would become a 2800 one, with all those things considered.

Edited August 28, 2013 by ScytheEleven

[Pilgrim_Grey]

Since the PTS forums are now down, can anyone tell me how the damage reduction to Gut/Serrated Blades affects Tactics and AP playstyles? It seems like that was a huge reduction that will make the improvement to Fire Pulse just be a wash overall.

[ScytheEleven]

Since the PTS forums are now down, can anyone tell me how the damage reduction to Gut/Serrated Blades affects Tactics and AP playstyles? It seems like that was a huge reduction that will make the improvement to Fire Pulse just be a wash overall.

 

What everyone seems to forget is that Pulse Cannon/Flamethrower's critical hit damage is now boosted by 30%

 

Mix that in with the fact that for every stack, Pulse Cannon/Flamethrower costs 2 less heat (so now 18 at three stacks). You also now vent 2 heat every 1.5 seconds. In short, if you thought heat management was easy before, it is just silly now.

 

Overall, AP/Tactics got a solid buff. It is now better than Hybrid in PVE.

 

In summary:

 

+ Pulse Generator/Flamethrower 30% critical damage boost. :D

+ Fire Pulse/Immolate damage increase

+ At three stacks, Pulse Generator/Flamethrower now only costs 18 heat

+ You now vent 2 heat every 1.5 seconds

 

- Retractable Blade/Gut's bleeding reduced

Edited August 28, 2013 by ScytheEleven

[dipstik]

wait... did they just nerf the commando's threat drop? now we just get more defense and we can no longer negate the next force/tech attack?

[DarthOvertone]

My guess is a 2500 parse would become a 2800 one, with all those things considered.

 

Which would still be garbage PvE DPS compared to Sniper/Slingers. lol

 

What everyone seems to forget is that Pulse Cannon/Flamethrower's critical hit damage is now boosted by 30%

 

This is really good for PvE. Meh for PvP.

 

Overall, AP/Tactics got a solid buff. It is now better than Hybrid in PVE.

 

I haven't seen a parse yet from anyone on the PTS that proves this. Hybrids still rule, in both PvE and PvP, even on the PTS. Best parse I've seen by PTS testers was 2886 and it was as a Hybrid.

[cashogy_reborn]

TD pre-2.0 form was terrible for PVE players. Post-2.0, with the DoT attached, it's slightly better, but still not where it needs to be. Hence why I suggested adding armor penetration to it so it increases it's burst for PVP and overall damage for PVE.

 

8k damage is 8k damage in PvE. I would imagine that PvEers would prefer an ability that dealt its full damage potential after just 3s, rather than 15s?

 

There is no discernible reason for the DoT to even exist, except for some moron giving the devs the idea that it needed more "synergy" with the tree (that was while 2.0 was on the PTS forum).

 

It makes almost zero difference to PvE if its changed to a single damage attack w/ no DoT, like it used to be. Keep the damage it can deal the same (so itd be a 7-9k crit max), and youve just made it a competitive spec in PvP again.

 

The chances of obtaining the max damage potential from AP is so incredibly slim right now (you need to roll crits 4 or 5 separate times). Its almost never going to happen (I think its <1% chance), even in PvE. Why should it not be reverted so that we can benefit from the full damage potential much more often?

 

And I posted this in the PTS forums, but cannot reply b/c the forum is down, and some people are saying this would be overpowered and it would do 11k damage.... LOL. The first iteration of 2.0 on PTS had AP doing 7-8k damage on crits with base partisan gear. *That* is what Im asking for to be returned; Im not asking for some ridiculous OP ability. Just a return to the way it was before the DoT, when the spec was working properly.

 

 

wait... did they just nerf the commando's threat drop? now we just get more defense and we can no longer negate the next force/tech attack?

 

No. That skill still drops threat as a baseline, and you can talent the absorb in Gunnery. Deguass is a Assault talent; if you play Gunnery it will be unchanged.

Edited August 28, 2013 by cashogy_reborn

[DarthScruffy]

They really need to remove the defensive buff from the 2nd highest tier of the tactics tree. If they put in something that either buffed gut, high-impact bolt or ion pulse some more that would help. They pretty much need to be looking to something like that because Vanguard dps is really awful to hybrid because of the Cell system.

[Ottoattack]

They really need to remove the defensive buff from the 2nd highest tier of the tactics tree. If they put in something that either buffed gut, high-impact bolt or ion pulse some more that would help. They pretty much need to be looking to something like that because Vanguard dps is really awful to hybrid because of the Cell system.

 

While the survivability of assault/pyro has been improved, I do not see how the class can be competitive. The damage is not there. Sustained damage is sub par, which is further nerfed by lowering IM/IR damage. Over heating was not a problem in PvP to begin with. The class does not have much burst, as the only thing that can potentially break 6K is RS, and overall critic rating has been reduced, which consequently dropped the value the surge bonuses the assault/pyro trees have. And finally, the tree is converted into a 3 dot tree, which needs at least 3 globals to setup damage, and if dots are cleansed, you damage is pretty much done.

 

Its not competitive for PvP or PvE from which ever angle you look at it.

 

AP/tactics is a different question, but from PvP perspective not much has changed to make the class competitive.

[ScytheEleven]

8k damage is 8k damage in PvE. I would imagine that PvEers would prefer an ability that dealt its full damage potential after just 3s, rather than 15s?

 

There is no discernible reason for the DoT to even exist, except for some moron giving the devs the idea that it needed more "synergy" with the tree (that was while 2.0 was on the PTS forum).

 

It makes almost zero difference to PvE if its changed to a single damage attack w/ no DoT, like it used to be. Keep the damage it can deal the same (so itd be a 7-9k crit max), and youve just made it a competitive spec in PvP again.

 

The chances of obtaining the max damage potential from AP is so incredibly slim right now (you need to roll crits 4 or 5 separate times). Its almost never going to happen (I think its <1% chance), even in PvE. Why should it not be reverted so that we can benefit from the full damage potential much more often?

 

And I posted this in the PTS forums, but cannot reply b/c the forum is down, and some people are saying this would be overpowered and it would do 11k damage.... LOL. The first iteration of 2.0 on PTS had AP doing 7-8k damage on crits with base partisan gear. *That* is what Im asking for to be returned; Im not asking for some ridiculous OP ability. Just a return to the way it was before the DoT, when the spec was working properly.

 

 

 

 

No. That skill still drops threat as a baseline, and you can talent the absorb in Gunnery. Deguass is a Assault talent; if you play Gunnery it will be unchanged.

 

 

In it's current state, TD/AP does more damage for PVE players with the DoT attached. TD before 2.0 was just kinetic, now it's damage was cut between kinetic and DoT. It's better for PVE, but not where it needs to be. Bringing it back to just Kinetic damage would make it worthless again for PVE.

 

Here is a parse just using TD to prove that:

 

www.torparse.com/a/402135

 

Now, on my tool tip, it says:

 

Kinetic damage for TD: 2785 - 2899

Elemental DoT 12 seconds: 2281

 

That leaves you with a damage range of TD being 5066 - 5180.

 

In that parse I posted, the average hit for kinetic damage on TD was 2449.85...hitting less than the numbers indicated in the tool tip due to no armor debuff, and no armor penetration on TD.

 

The burning effect of TD had an average hit of 742.48 per tick (four ticks per TD application). So multiply 742.48 x 4 gives you: 2969.92 total elemental damage on average per TD.

 

Add 2969.92 + 2449.85 = 5417 average damage per TD application, which is above the tool tip range of 5066 - 5180.

 

Now this was not done on the PTS, but I fully plan to do so once the PTS is back up.

 

Removal of the DoT would make TD worthless again in PVE. Add armor penetration to the kinetic damage of TD to increase it's burst.

Edited August 28, 2013 by ScytheEleven

[Yestreen]

Dear Community Team,

 

I have been very impressed with your turnaround time in making changed to PT/Vanguards.

 

I have one question:

 

WHY can't you make similar changes, equally as quickly, for all other classes!? There are several classes/specs that need your attention because they are too weak in PVP:

-Merc Healers (shutdown when focused)

-Sorc Healers (shutdown when focused)

-Conceamnent Operatives (Poor energy management, poor burst, squishy)

-Lethality Operatives (Squishy)

-Madness Assassins (Squishy, Cluncky)

-Deceptions Assassins (Poor sustained DPS, Squishy)

-Operative Healers (too strong)

-Smash Marauders (too strong)

 

I counted 3 days between the "perception problem" and balance changed to Pyro PT's. Now do the same thing. Again.

[cashogy_reborn]

In it's current state, TD/AP does more damage for PVE players with the DoT attached. TD before 2.0 was just kinetic, now it's damage was cut between kinetic and DoT. It's better for PVE, but not where it needs to be. Bringing it back to just Kinetic damage would make it worthless again for PVE.

 

Here is a parse just using TD to prove that:

 

www.torparse.com/a/402135

 

Now, on my tool tip, it says:

 

Kinetic damage for TD: 2785 - 2899

Elemental DoT 12 seconds: 2281

 

That leaves you with a damage range of TD being 5066 - 5180.

 

In that parse I posted, the average hit for kinetic damage on TD was 2449.85...hitting less than the numbers indicated in the tool tip due to no armor debuff, and no armor penetration on TD.

 

The burning effect of TD had an average hit of 742.48 per tick (four ticks per TD application). So multiply 742.48 x 4 gives you: 2969.92 total elemental damage on average per TD.

 

Add 2969.92 + 2449.85 = 5417 average damage per TD application, which is above the tool tip range of 5066 - 5180.

 

Now this was not done on the PTS, but I fully plan to do so once the PTS is back up.

 

Removal of the DoT would make TD worthless again in PVE. Add armor penetration to the kinetic damage of TD to increase it's burst.

 

Not sure what all of that is meant to prove, and it certainly doesnt refute any of what I just said.

 

On PTS (b/c I have tested it), I was getting 5.5k crits, plus 4 ticks of the DoT which could crit for ~1k. So in total, 9.5k potential damage. But that requires 5 crits, which has an infinitesimally small chance of actually occurring. So you would typically see damage in the 5-7k range.

 

TD can be made to do exactly the same average damage by making it an 8-9k crit. In fact, assuming a 30% crit chance, and assuming that TD does ~4250 non crit, ~8500 crit, you should see the average damage of TD over 100 uses be 5525, which is greater than your parse.

 

So explain to me how its reducing its effectiveness in PvE if all of its damage is returned to the initial application of damage?

[Ottoattack]

In it's current state, TD/AP does more damage for PVE players with the DoT attached. TD before 2.0 was just kinetic, now it's damage was cut between kinetic and DoT. It's better for PVE, but not where it needs to be. Bringing it back to just Kinetic damage would make it worthless again for PVE.

 

Here is a parse just using TD to prove that:

 

www.torparse.com/a/402135

 

Now, on my tool tip, it says:

 

Kinetic damage for TD: 2785 - 2899

Elemental DoT 12 seconds: 2281

 

That leaves you with a damage range of TD being 5066 - 5180.

 

In that parse I posted, the average hit for kinetic damage on TD was 2449.85...hitting less than the numbers indicated in the tool tip due to no armor debuff, and no armor penetration on TD.

 

The burning effect of TD had an average hit of 742.48 per tick (four ticks per TD application). So multiply 742.48 x 4 gives you: 2969.92 total elemental damage on average per TD.

 

Add 2969.92 + 2449.85 = 5417 average damage per TD application, which is above the tool tip range of 5066 - 5180.

 

Now this was not done on the PTS, but I fully plan to do so once the PTS is back up.

 

Removal of the DoT would make TD worthless again in PVE. Add armor penetration to the kinetic damage of TD to increase it's burst.

 

There is no question that TD does quite good damage in PvE, and higher overall damage compared to pre 2.0. The problem is what you sacrifice to get there. On live, retractable blade does slightly less damage, but you pick so many damage bonuses along the way, thus the hybrid was born, which is currently highest parsing spec for PT/VG PvE wise.

 

When 2.4 becomes live, very competitive PvE dps its going to be only AP/tactics, because retractable blade and IM/IR are getting nerfed. Pyro is not competitive by any means. It needs to parse 300 dps higher to be even considered and none of the changes happened in 2.4 would improve the damage.

Edited August 28, 2013 by Ottoattack

[Ottoattack]

Not sure what all of that is meant to prove, and it certainly doesnt refute any of what I just said.

 

On PTS (b/c I have tested it), I was getting 5.5k crits, plus 4 ticks of the DoT which could crit for ~1k. So in total, 9.5k potential damage. But that requires 5 crits, which has an infinitesimally small chance of actually occurring. So you would typically see damage in the 5-7k range.

 

TD can be made to do exactly the same average damage by making it an 8-9k crit. In fact, assuming a 30% crit chance, and assuming that TD does ~4250 non crit, ~8500 crit, you should see the average damage of TD over 100 uses be 5525, which is greater than your parse.

 

So explain to me how its reducing its effectiveness in PvE if all of its damage is returned to the initial application of damage?

 

TD full damage on PTS is around 5.5K if all damage is front loaded. If it critics that's easy 9-10K hit. Not even smashers can achieve that . Not saying that its a bad idea though, but expect the dot to stay. BW devs, in their infinite wisdom, transformed the class into a dot class and believe that you need three different skills to apply the dot, so do not expect that to change. The problem is that melee and dot does not work for PvP. Not even in PvE aside from annihilation marauder. Yet again, annihilation marauder has too many atk options that deal damage. Heck, slash does mid 3K damage as a filler, which is more than flame burst and CGC combined.

[XyriusSES]

Still needs a DPS boost.

[cashogy_reborn]

TD full damage on PTS is around 5.5K if all damage is front loaded. If it critics that's easy 9-10K hit. Not even smashers can achieve that . Not saying that its a bad idea though, but expect the dot to stay. BW devs, in their infinite wisdom, transformed the class into a dot class and believe that you need three different skills to apply the dot, so do not expect that to change. The problem is that melee and dot does not work for PvP. Not even in PvE aside from annihilation marauder. Yet again, annihilation marauder has too many atk options that deal damage. Heck, slash does mid 3K damage as a filler, which is more than flame burst and CGC combined.

 

Um, do you play the same game as me? Smashers easily hit 9k...... and they are not the only class that can do that.

 

And its not a DoT class. Gyro made a great post a while back about how small of a % the DoTs were of actual damage output. Its laughable at best.

 

And OBVIOUSLY TD does more damage than pre 2.0..... *everything* does more damage than pre 2.0

 

And again, I am not suggesting that all of its current tooltip damage be changed into the initial blast. I am suggesting it become a ~4.2k non crit, ~8.5k crit attack. Which in total is slightly less total potential damage than is currently possible, but is actually an increase in the average damage that ability will deal.

Edited August 28, 2013 by cashogy_reborn

[Luckeyduckey]

2.4 Return of the PT. Fk yeah.

[Aelaias]

Patience is a virtue. Wait for your set of questions.

....Then be disappointed in the answers, quit the rep position and publicly blow a fuse on the forum, have the same

be done by several hundred more people and you are golden.

[Aelaias]

2.4 Return of the PT. Fk yeah.

 

The damage is still crap so no.

[Ottoattack]

Um, do you play the same game as me? Smashers easily hit 9k...... and they are not the only class that can do that.

 

And its not a DoT class. Gyro made a great post a while back about how small of a % the DoTs were of actual damage output. Its laughable at best.

 

And OBVIOUSLY TD does more damage than pre 2.0..... *everything* does more damage than pre 2.0

 

And again, I am not suggesting that all of its current tooltip damage be changed into the initial blast. I am suggesting it become a ~4.2k non crit, ~8.5k crit attack. Which in total is slightly less total potential damage than is currently possible, but is actually an increase in the average damage that ability will deal.

 

I play smash jugg. Hitting 9K only happens on PvE gear and sorc. If all of TD damage is front loaded it will hit harder than any other atk in the game, when it critic, but not by a big margin, due to very high base damage of mid 5K, plus a 30% bonus to critic damage.

 

Also, when I said TD damage has increased, I do not mean your that damage increased due to gear, but base damage. Of course most of the increase is dot, which is kind of useless.

 

I agree on the fact that TD needs to hit at least in the 7K range when it critics. Without that full pyro, even with the recent changes, is not viable.

 

It will actually be nice if TD sets a 15 sec irremovable debuff on the target that increases all fire damage by 10%. This will increase CGC, IM, flame burst and TD damage by 10%. This alone would make TD a must and will go along way in improving tree overall damage and creating some synergy.

 

If that is also paired with moving stupid +3% endurance to the tank tree and the 6% bonus to fire damage to pyro tree. Boast the bonus fire from 2/4/6% to 3/6/9%. This will also allow pyro to pick the 6% bonus to tech critic chance in AP tree without having to make a choice between it, RS bonuses or the bonus to fire damage.

 

Finally, revert the IM damage change while keep it at 16 energy, and we have a class parsing 3K in 72s and competitive in PvP.

 

The %s can be adjusted for idle results. Having TD hit for 7K, while RS hitting for 6.5K when they critic will be reasonable burst.

Edited August 28, 2013 by Ottoattack

[Serpieri]

None of this addresses the DPS problems facing AP and Pyro. Unless these specs are capable of pulling around 3200+ dps - Marauders (3221.21) and Snipers (3265.68-3629.42) will be the better choice - especially with the utility they bring. Sadly, we had to remove a PT DPS from our raid roster - since he kept trying to taunt and change cells to shield the other dps in the raid - the only thing that succeeded in doing was wiping the raid and lowering his dps even further.

 

Also, I can't wait to see the buffs you have waiting for Assassins/Shadows - they better be substantial for all three specs.

Edited August 28, 2013 by Serpieri

[Brutonis]

I know you guys don’t like comparative “they have this but we don’t” but at least read it out before dismissing outright. Also keep in mind this is a purely PVE post and PVP isn't taken into any consideration.

 

Speaking from the perspective of a pve Vanguard tank that also plays a Guardian tank I feel Vanguards need a real second defensive cooldown to match the other tanking classes. A VG has one good shield cooldown, a triggered heal over time that’s incredibly weak in most any hm/nim operation situation, and a collection of utility type damage reducers that each tank class has in some form.

 

This notion that our ranged utility has to be balanced against is a really weak stance considering that most of those abilities over 10m are either ammo drains or highly situational. Our useful ranged abilities in hammer shot followed by hib and sonic round (which I admit is incredibly more useful than the guardian aoe taunt) are nice but they don’t create a situation where if you give VG another cd you then bring the VG tank over any other tank.

 

On my guardian I really feel I have a defensive cooldown for any situation. Two solid damage reduction cooldowns in warding call and saber ward, a substantial health bump in enure that’s incredibly useful when you know high damage is about to hit you, and saber reflect which is imo the most epic and class defining ability in the game atm. On top of these are the utility debuffs and helpful abilities like enraged defense that can be used in a pinch if managed appropriately. That’s four viable and useful cooldowns for operation level fights to one for a VG. Is that really balanced?

 

What those cooldowns create for me on my Guardian is a feeling that I can use a defensive cooldown on a whim if I think I might need it. On my VG I know I have one shot every 2 min or so to substantially cut incoming damage so I tend to sit on it until it just absolutely has to be used. If there’s a boss ability it is required for then I really don’t have a defensive cooldown to use in a pinch.

 

I’m not sure the best way to approach giving Vanguards some help with defensive cooldowns without breaking something else. I get that a VG mitigates damage a smidge better but imo it’s not imbalanced enough to keep us from one more ability. Some ideas I’ve had include…

 

 

1) Buff adrenaline rush for tanks to instantly add the amount to be healed to the max total health for up to 10 seconds on top of the heal it provides. If preemptively activated in anticipation of high incoming damage take the additional health that will be added into account when a death blow is delivered. If the added max health would have saved the VG then the death blow is avoided until either 10 sec go by or outside healing makes up the difference.

 

2) Some sort of trooper/bh styled cooldown that reduces damage for a short period of time with some heavy restrictions. Something like “Improvised Cover” or “Duck and Cover” or <insert trooper hiding sounding something> where for a short damage reduction the VG picks up some sort of battlefield debris like blown off tank/turret plating or machinery or whatever random environmental cover could be rolled into place. For 5 to 10 seconds the VG takes no direct damage and heavily mitigated aoe damage from the direction of the cover. While the cover is down the VG cannot move in any way and no offensive abilities can be used outside of shoulder cannon or sonic round. Any direct damage from the opposite direction of the cover isn’t mitigated in any way and cover can be interrupted from behind the VG. A really rough example is the cover provided in the Titan 6 encounter where you're stuck and can't really do much but you aren't getting wrecked by the damage wave.

 

 

I know both are a serious reach and may sound dumb but I’m just tossing ideas out there to get something else useful in a pinch. The irk I’ve had with my VG since release is I feel I have to save my one defensive shield for the absolute “I’m gonna die” moment and I usually sit on it.

Edited August 28, 2013 by Brutonis

[PanzerJagdhund]

One of the most enjoyable things about pre-2.0 Vanguard dps, was the fact that it was a glass cannon. Pretty much all out damage, little to no useful defensives, and no agro dump. It's one of the reasons why I switched my main from launch, which was a Commando, to the Vanguard. It was way too much fun.

 

Then the PTS comes for 2.0. All Vanguards are happy with the changes: agro dump, damage is still very high. A very fun class to play. And then the PTS closed, and then VD-Day(Vanguard Death Day) appeared with Makeb. A completely different class than what it was on the PTS. Nerfed so hard, a lot of players chose to change toons, me being one of them.

 

Then we have some hope with class reps and the possibility of having questions answered that could possibly give the class hope. And then the responses to those questions. They are very bad. VERY, very bad responses. The 2.4 PTS changes aren't that great. You claim that the full trees to better than the hyrbid trees, but they don't. The hybrids still do more damage than the full trees. Using the 30m range excuse is just plain sad, especially when most of the abilities that have the 30m range, are not that great.

 

And I could have wrote something on the lines of the spoiler below as I agree with everything said.

 

 

I agree with you fully, the perception of an entire community of players and the perception of a couple of people (the developers) who think they got it right while (again) the entire playerbase disagrees with you.Thats the perception problem. You just told the entire sorc/sage AND vanguard/powertech community to L2P. The PT rep even quit his role as a rep because he knew you would misshandle this mess so grossly!

 

For ANY serious pvp ALWAYS bring smashers for dps and jugs for tanks and operatives for healing, nothing else cuts it for top level play cause those classes are the best at every single role that exists in pvp.

 

Other classes are "viable" but not optimal wich means that every player who wants to play and succeed in pvp is limited to the top performing classes.

 

PT tank works and can at times shine a little bit but in the end, not worth it for 4vs4, 8vs8 or whatever, since jugs always outperform them.

 

Stuff like this is so painfully obvious to us, the players and yet it seems to elude the people who handle game balance.

 

When was the last time you saw a merc/commando healer in serious top level pvp? Thats right, you dont!

When was the last time anyone picked a shadow as a main dpser for pve or pvp? Thats right, you dont!

When was the last time anyone picked sorc/sage/Operative dps for top ranked pvp? Thats right, you dont!

 

You want me to go on? I keep on trucking all night long cause thats how many flaws you have in the game currently.

 

Why does mara/sentinel have the best burst dps, the best sustained dps, the best cooldowns AND execute (wich dont show on the parses cause the little doll dont ever go to 30% health, your own words BW!)

 

We have a few classes outperforming ALL the other classes and you refuse to do anything about it and we, the community, cannot comprehend why.

 

Because quite frankly, you dont have the guts to answer this wall of text.

 

 

 

It looks like I will never be able to use the class that I had the most fun playing. That is the situation you have with everyone complaining.

 

And If you haven't figured out what has everyone pissed off, the answer is below. Very poor choice of words.

 

 

In short, this is a perception problem, and it is one that you admit didn’t exist when Pyrotech dealt more damage. When Pyrotech damage goes up, will this perception issue go away? If not, we’ll address the issue, but we aren’t looking to make massive improvements that would only tip the scales in the other direction.

 

Edited August 28, 2013 by PanzerJagdhund