Vanguard // Powertechs Top 3 Answers!

[Siphorus]

Why not give powertechs/vanguards a purge?

[Groncho]

Why not give powertechs/vanguards a purge?

perception problemzzzzzzz

[af_raptura]

Wow, Bioware. I did not think you had it in you. I thought you guys would just sweep the disgruntled posts under the rug. I am glad to have been proven wrong. Thanks for looking out for the underdogs of pvp.

 

Also, this is coming from a guy who prefers AP/Tactics, but I think I might give Pyro/Assault a try with specced buffs to Kolto Overload/Adrenaline Rush.

[AlyxDinas]

Adding my voice to the general chorus here. Good to see defensive changes being made and the changes to Tactics on the PTS are not insignificant. Still, DPS considerations need to be made as well, particularly in the joint Pyrotech/Assault tree in order to make it a bit more viable. Nothing to the extremes it once had but a boost is still something worth considerations.

[DarthOvertone]

We received some feedback about being executable while Adrenaline Rush/Kolto Overload is active, so we have decided to change the health threshold trigger for Adrenaline Rush/Kolto Overload to 35% (up from 30%)

 

Wow! This is a pretty awesome change. Thanks for this.

 

The other changes are nice as well for PT survivability. It looks like you guys nipped the survivability problem in the bud.

 

Now you just need to address the lack of burst in both AP and PT. There is still no reason to go for Thermal Grenade and Hybrids are still the superior specs for DPS. If the Devs can solve that one, then Powertechs will be in a good place.

Edited August 27, 2013 by DarthOvertone

[AardvarkTongue]

As a tank I am dancing with joy at the 30->35% change.

 

Curious if you are speaking from a PvP standpoint. I see it as a nice boost to not be executable and at least be of some use in PvP, where you are just trying to delay the inevitable death as long as possible. In PvE it is still nothing more than an Oh **** button on a 3 minute cooldown, retaining it's spot next to Riot Gas as a very marginal defensive cooldown (although better than it was; gift horse, mouth not looked at)

 

Meanwhlie Assault Specialist picks up a great defensive cooldown that is better than the shield specialist cooldowns in Degauss. PvE tanks really are not getting any love from these changes. (Or should I still not be comparing tank classes, racing down the road to disappointment?)

[Jakev-]

These changes are great and will increase survivability for the Assault tree alot this was one of my favorite specs to play before 2.0

 

But there is something I would like to see changed regarding the Tactics Tank Hybrid.

 

I've been doing arena on the pts the past week pretty much non-stop (I have gone from 2.2k Rating on Live to 3.9k on the pts) and some people are running Tactics with the Ion Cell in Dps gear/Shield generator. This allows them to have high survivability and damage output. (Being able to spec into 30% aoe reduction + 30% flat damage reduction while stunned and Reflexive Shield - Taking damage lowers the cooldown of Reactive Shield and has a % chance to absorb a moderate amount of damage) Stacking this with certain classes, say 2 smash Sentinels with 30% AOE Reduction + High AOE Damage brings alot of AOE pressure and is hard to deal with a team with (for example) 1 guardian tank, 1 sentinel 1 gunslinger and 1 Scoundrel healer. I think if there isn't going to be a restriction on the advanced classes you can bring you should kill this hybrid build.

 

The way to do this without nerfing the damage for Tactics would be just to make the talent "pulse generator" only grant 3 stacks to increase Pulse cannon damage while being in the High Energy Cell. That way there wont be a way to stack high AOE 3 DPS Compositions while still having a "tank" to guard the healer.

 

I know this seem like nerf QQ "Waah I lost to a hybrid tank vanguard" to an already underpowered class, but I feel that stacking that much aoe damage with high survivability is going to be a ridiculous in a 4v4 arena and there wont really be much of a point to using the Shield Specialist tree in Arenas

Edited August 27, 2013 by Jakev-

[Macroeconomics]

Y'all ???? Not very professional is it??

 

It strikes me as a bit odd for a Net-speak festooned forum to be complaining about regional dialetic-speak....

 

As for the changes, at least we see movement in the right direction. I am a bit mystified about why Merc Pyro/Commando Assault gets fewer buffs than PT Pyro/VG Assault, given that it common knowledge that the Merc/Commando version is far worse.

[ekimmak]

Thank you for taking feedback into consideration. ( I like to imagine you locked combat team into a room with parody videos looping until they caved in )

 

Nah, I bet they played Batman and Robin instead. They might enjoy parody videos. But some people use that movie as a form of execution. That'd get results.

 

I'm pretty harsh against any sort of DoT protection, because it trivializes the difference between a smart healer and a terrible one. I've always wondered if some sort of heat refund or something similar for each cleanse could be a good idea.

[Dedrayge]

Remember, the longer one survives the more damage they can do.

 

 

I'd actually appreciate if the combat team could let us know what their intentions for AP/tactics and Pyro/assault are. Personally, I'm not sure which spec is intended to have better burst and which is to have better sustain damage.

[cashogy_reborn]

Hey everyone,

 

I spoke with the combat team about your concerns and they are going to make some changes to Vanguards and Powertechs. Please check out the more detailed response below, including Patch Notes, on the changes. Please keep in mind, these Patch Notes are subject change.

 

 

We have been keeping a close eye on the PTS forums and the responses to the Vanguard/Powertech Top 3 thread, and we will be making some further changes to Bounty Hunters/Troopers due to some of the feedback that has been given.

 

We received some feedback about being executable while Adrenaline Rush/Kolto Overload is active, so we have decided to change the health threshold trigger for Adrenaline Rush/Kolto Overload to 35% (up from 30%), moving it outside of execute range. Adrenaline Rush/Kolto Overload is not intended to make you immune to damage or death; however, this change should make Bounty Hunters and Troopers a significantly less attractive target while Adrenaline Rush/Kolto Overload is active. This change is directed at boosting the survivability of all four Bounty Hunter and Trooper advanced classes.

 

It was also mentioned that we might be stealthily trying to nerf the Assault Specialist’s/Pyrotech’s ability to slow by unlinking Sweltering Heat from Plasma Cell/Combustible Gas Cylinder. That was not our intention, and we will make it so that Explosive Surge/Flame Sweep also triggers the slow effect from Sweltering Heat.

 

We also received plenty of feedback that Assault Specialists/Pyrotechs have very low survivability and that Degauss is just an inferior version of Hold the Line/Hydraulic Overrides. In response, we will be changing Degauss to grant 12.5/25% defense chance for 6 seconds when Diversion/Chaff Flare is activated. We will also boost the Adrenaline Fueled/Automated Defenses skill by adding 15/30% damage reduction while Adrenaline Rush/Kolto Overload is active – making the ability even more effective for Assault Specialist/Pyrotech Vanguards/Powertechs.

 

All of these changes should make it onto the PTS in an upcoming build, so feel free to try them out at your convenience.

 

Patch Notes:

 

Bounty Hunter

• Kolto Overload now triggers at 35% health and may heal up to 35% of max health (both up from 30%).
  

 

Powertech

Shield Tech

• Coolant now allows Kolto Overload to heal you beyond 35% health (up from 30%).
  

 

Pyrotech

• The slow caused by the Sweltering Heat skill may now also be triggered by Flame Sweep.
  
• Degauss has been redesigned: Activating Chaff Flare increases your defense chance by 12.5/25% for 6 seconds.
  
• In addition to its previous functionality, Automated Defenses now also increases damage reduction by 15/30% while Kolto Overload is active.
  

 

Mercenary

Pyrotech

• Degauss has been redesigned: Activating Chaff Flare increases your defense chance by 12.5/25% for 6 seconds.
  

 

Trooper

• Adrenaline Rush now triggers at 35% health and may heal up to 35% of max health (both up from 30%).
  

 

Vanguard

Shield Specialist

• Soldier's Grit now allows Adrenaline Rush to heal you beyond 35% health (up from 30%).
  

 

Assault Specialist

• The slow caused by the Sweltering Heat skill may now also be triggered by Explosive Surge.
  
• Degauss has been redesigned: Activating Diversion increases your defense chance by 12.5/25% for 6 seconds.
  
• In addition to its previous functionality, Adrenaline Fueled now also increases damage reduction by 15/30% while Adrenaline Rush is active.
  

 

Commando

Assault Specialist

• Degauss has been redesigned: Activating Diversion increases your defense chance by 12.5/25% for 6 seconds.
  

 

*This* is the kind of stuff the community was expecting from the class rep questions. I am glad that you brought this back to their attention so that they could actually take our feedback into account, rather than just telling us we are wrong and have a perception problem.

 

We (the playerbase) spend a lot of time, time that we are not paid for, in order to provide you guys (devs) with really good feedback in order to help facilitate change that will improve the game for everyone. It is very insulting when the devs take that feedback and either ignore it, or tell us we are wrong. Props to you Courtney for making them take a second look.

[Pilgrim_Grey]

Thank you for this second response... I only hope you can do this from the start in the future (not that questions will guarantee in game adjustments, but the specifics provided and good tone to the language).

 

One concern I still have is with Gut for Tactics. It's a core ability (heck, counting Gut, it is affected by four different choices in the Tactics tree), but 2.4 is currently reducing its damage a lot. I see that as a major issue for the tree as a whole to have one of its main abilities reduced by a lot more than a "moderate" amount.

[OldSpiceSwag]

Hey everyone,

 

I spoke with the combat team about your concerns and they are going to make some changes to Vanguards and Powertechs. Please check out the more detailed response below, including Patch Notes, on the changes. Please keep in mind, these Patch Notes are subject change.

 

 

We have been keeping a close eye on the PTS forums and the responses to the Vanguard/Powertech Top 3 thread, and we will be making some further changes to Bounty Hunters/Troopers due to some of the feedback that has been given.

 

We received some feedback about being executable while Adrenaline Rush/Kolto Overload is active, so we have decided to change the health threshold trigger for Adrenaline Rush/Kolto Overload to 35% (up from 30%), moving it outside of execute range. Adrenaline Rush/Kolto Overload is not intended to make you immune to damage or death; however, this change should make Bounty Hunters and Troopers a significantly less attractive target while Adrenaline Rush/Kolto Overload is active. This change is directed at boosting the survivability of all four Bounty Hunter and Trooper advanced classes.

 

It was also mentioned that we might be stealthily trying to nerf the Assault Specialist’s/Pyrotech’s ability to slow by unlinking Sweltering Heat from Plasma Cell/Combustible Gas Cylinder. That was not our intention, and we will make it so that Explosive Surge/Flame Sweep also triggers the slow effect from Sweltering Heat.

 

We also received plenty of feedback that Assault Specialists/Pyrotechs have very low survivability and that Degauss is just an inferior version of Hold the Line/Hydraulic Overrides. In response, we will be changing Degauss to grant 12.5/25% defense chance for 6 seconds when Diversion/Chaff Flare is activated. We will also boost the Adrenaline Fueled/Automated Defenses skill by adding 15/30% damage reduction while Adrenaline Rush/Kolto Overload is active – making the ability even more effective for Assault Specialist/Pyrotech Vanguards/Powertechs.

 

All of these changes should make it onto the PTS in an upcoming build, so feel free to try them out at your convenience.

 

Patch Notes:

 

Bounty Hunter

• Kolto Overload now triggers at 35% health and may heal up to 35% of max health (both up from 30%).
  

 

Powertech

Shield Tech

• Coolant now allows Kolto Overload to heal you beyond 35% health (up from 30%).
  

 

Pyrotech

• The slow caused by the Sweltering Heat skill may now also be triggered by Flame Sweep.
  
• Degauss has been redesigned: Activating Chaff Flare increases your defense chance by 12.5/25% for 6 seconds.
  
• In addition to its previous functionality, Automated Defenses now also increases damage reduction by 15/30% while Kolto Overload is active.
  

 

Mercenary

Pyrotech

• Degauss has been redesigned: Activating Chaff Flare increases your defense chance by 12.5/25% for 6 seconds.
  

 

Trooper

• Adrenaline Rush now triggers at 35% health and may heal up to 35% of max health (both up from 30%).
  

 

Vanguard

Shield Specialist

• Soldier's Grit now allows Adrenaline Rush to heal you beyond 35% health (up from 30%).
  

 

Assault Specialist

• The slow caused by the Sweltering Heat skill may now also be triggered by Explosive Surge.
  
• Degauss has been redesigned: Activating Diversion increases your defense chance by 12.5/25% for 6 seconds.
  
• In addition to its previous functionality, Adrenaline Fueled now also increases damage reduction by 15/30% while Adrenaline Rush is active.
  

 

Commando

Assault Specialist

• Degauss has been redesigned: Activating Diversion increases your defense chance by 12.5/25% for 6 seconds.
  

 

a few things:

 

1. i already said it on the sorc forums, but thank you for actually listening to us and doing something about it

 

2. however, i'm still nervous that it took a weekend full of 100+ pages and ~1000 outraged posters to get this mere step in the right direction. shouldnt be that hard, hopefully you guys learn from it.

 

3. while these *defensive* changes are great, they make me extremely nervous. these defensive buffs are good, possibly even great....but does this mean that the combat team thinks that pyro dps is in a good enough spot to justify good defenses? i loved vg prior to 2.0, easily my favorite damage dealer. the burst was so consistent and hard hitting that not having good defenses was permissible....i would rather not have the devs think that because of the defensive buffs they just gave us, that we dont need damage buffs to get us back around where we were. because i would sacrifice in the second every one of these defensive buffs to get our old roll-face dps playstyle back, and i also think that if we get that dps back that made the class fun, combined with these buffs, would we be op?

 

tl;dr that last paragraph: does the addition of these defensive buffs mean pt's solid damage pre 2.0 is gone for good?

Edited August 28, 2013 by OldSpiceSwag

[Ugolino]

Wait...did they just promise completely useful, well designed changes to an underperforming class?

 

I think Tatooine just had a deep freeze.

[Brunner_Venda]

Wait...did they just promise completely useful, well designed changes to an underperforming class?

 

I think Tatooine just had a deep freeze.

 

No doubt Tatooine is crawling with taun tauns and wampas.

[Kooziejr]

Congrats devs. IMO these are the exact changes needed. AP and Pyro are in a good place now theoretically. Pyro isn't a squishy heavy armour anymore and I think you did a really good job listening! I have been playing AP since 1.8 but will definitely try Pyro again! I'm really excited and want to congratulate you on listening to our feedback! Next time perhaps do this in the first place to stop getting so much hate!

[ScytheEleven]

These changes look really good for Pyro/Assault in a PVP perspective.

 

That being said, I think the damage could use a little bit more "burst".

 

I will continue to hammer home my idea about Incendiary Missile/Round boosting the armor penetration of Rail Shot/HiB by 15%, and I also believe that adding Assault Plastique/Thermal Detonator to this will really help as well.

Edited August 28, 2013 by ScytheEleven

[cashogy_reborn]

These changes look really good for Pyro/Assault in a PVP perspective.

 

That being said, I think the damage could use a little bit more "burst".

 

I will continue to hammer home my idea about Incendiary Missile/Round boosting the armor penetration of Rail Shot/HiB by 15%, and I also believe that adding Assault Plastique/Thermal Detonator to this will really help as well.

 

I think that reverting Thermal Det back to its pre-2.0 mechanic (no DoT) will give it back a lot of the missing burst. We made a bit of progress on that front so far with the moderate change, but we need them to remove the DoT entirely.

[Huez]

I think that reverting Thermal Det back to its pre-2.0 mechanic (no DoT) will give it back a lot of the missing burst. We made a bit of progress on that front so far with the moderate change, but we need them to remove the DoT entirely.

Remove DoT from just TD right? I need DoT's to keep creepers in check.

Other than that it should do the same damage as HM all together or maybe a little less than HM with push-back but I don't think it would be good for PvE.

Edited August 28, 2013 by Huez
missing details

[OlosBC]

First of all, I want to thank y'all for taking the time to go through and show the community that you're listening. I know several of the posters here have been quite virulent, and you guys have responded with cool heads.

 

Anyway, on to my opinion, as you stated that you'd be monitoring these threads.

 

Changes look good, but I still can't see pyro/assault (even with the other changes for 2.4) being anywhere close to competitive for PvE DPS.

 

Burnout's execute effect, while certainly a nice thing to have, only averages out to about 3% extra damage over the course of the fight. It is a 30% increase to 30% of our damage for the last 30% (generally goes faster than the rest of the fight, but is often the most crucial, so we won't devalue that) of the fight. if you multiply this together, this is overall a 3% increase to DPS, yet it is used as the excuse for why pyro/assault is so far behind (hard to get an accurate estimate as few people raid or parse competitively in pyro/assault, but for me pyro is about 10% behind the 2/22/22 hybrid, which is at least relatively competitve on a target dummy), even when many other classes also have substantial execute effects.

 

I guess I'll have to wait till 2.4 hits before seeing some actual numbers (especially with cylinder/cell dot being broken in PTS), but I haven't seen anything that would indicate a major aggregate change.

 

TD/AP saw a net increase, but that's a skill not taken by most PvE pyro's (though this may change with there being some incentive to tiers 6 and 7 now). This would overall be like a 20 dps increase though.

 

IM/IR got its damage reduced and heat cost reduced. I guess this is nice, but full pyro/assault doesn't really have heat/ammo problems.

 

Frequency of cylinder/cell dot applications (and thus extra ticks from re-applying) has either stayed constant or reduced. My money's on reduced, but with FB/IP at least providing 60% chance to proc, it might be relatively constant.

 

 

 

So, in the original question responses, it was stated "when pyro/assault damage goes back up, will this no longer be an issue". I read that to mean that it is recognized that pyro/assault is currently lower than it should be. So where are any actual changes to its damage? If you are worried about it doing too much burst in pvp, just put some extra damage into the dots, which everyone complains about getting cleansed anyways.

[Huez]

These changes look really good for Pyro/Assault in a PVP perspective.

 

That being said, I think the damage could use a little bit more "burst".

 

I will continue to hammer home my idea about Incendiary Missile/Round boosting the armor penetration of Rail Shot/HiB by 15%, and I also believe that adding Assault Plastique/Thermal Detonator to this will really help as well.

 

hmm wouldn't 15% be a lot?

[Huez]

First of all, I want to thank y'all for taking the time to go through and show the community that you're listening. I know several of the posters here have been quite virulent, and you guys have responded with cool heads.

 

Anyway, on to my opinion, as you stated that you'd be monitoring these threads.

 

Changes look good, but I still can't see pyro/assault (even with the other changes for 2.4) being anywhere close to competitive for PvE DPS.

 

Burnout's execute effect, while certainly a nice thing to have, only averages out to about 3% extra damage over the course of the fight. It is a 30% increase to 30% of our damage for the last 30% (generally goes faster than the rest of the fight, but is often the most crucial, so we won't devalue that) of the fight. if you multiply this together, this is overall a 3% increase to DPS, yet it is used as the excuse for why pyro/assault is so far behind (hard to get an accurate estimate as few people raid or parse competitively in pyro/assault, but for me pyro is about 10% behind the 2/22/22 hybrid, which is at least relatively competitve on a target dummy), even when many other classes also have substantial execute effects.

 

I guess I'll have to wait till 2.4 hits before seeing some actual numbers (especially with cylinder/cell dot being broken in PTS), but I haven't seen anything that would indicate a major aggregate change.

 

TD/AP saw a net increase, but that's a skill not taken by most PvE pyro's (though this may change with there being some incentive to tiers 6 and 7 now). This would overall be like a 20 dps increase though.

 

IM/IR got its damage reduced and heat cost reduced. I guess this is nice, but full pyro/assault doesn't really have heat/ammo problems.

 

Frequency of cylinder/cell dot applications (and thus extra ticks from re-applying) has either stayed constant or reduced. My money's on reduced, but with FB/IP at least providing 60% chance to proc, it might be relatively constant.

 

 

 

So, in the original question responses, it was stated "when pyro/assault damage goes back up, will this no longer be an issue". I read that to mean that it is recognized that pyro/assault is currently lower than it should be. So where are any actual changes to its damage? If you are worried about it doing too much burst in pvp, just put some extra damage into the dots, which everyone complains about getting cleansed anyways.

 

I agree, this works better for PvE players and maybe PvP , more time more damge, but its not like the cooldown has been reduced and we will be almost the same half the time in PvP while the abilities cooldown. But it seems like a brighter future though. Thanks Courtney

[cashogy_reborn]

Remove DoT from just TD right? I need DoT's to keep creepers in check.

Other than that it should do the same damage as HM all together or maybe a little less than HM with push-back but I don't think it would be good for PvE.

 

Yeah, just TD. It makes no sense in its current form with the DoT. It would be much better as an ability that could crit for 7-8k all at once, rather than an ability that can total 7-9k damage if you manage to crit on the main blast plus every tick of the DoT.

[Xinika]

Hey everyone,

 

I spoke with the combat team about your concerns and they are going to make some changes to Vanguards and Powertechs. Please check out the more detailed response below, including Patch Notes, on the changes. Please keep in mind, these Patch Notes are subject change.

 

 

We have been keeping a close eye on the PTS forums and the responses to the Vanguard/Powertech Top 3 thread, and we will be making some further changes to Bounty Hunters/Troopers due to some of the feedback that has been given.

 

We received some feedback about being executable while Adrenaline Rush/Kolto Overload is active, so we have decided to change the health threshold trigger for Adrenaline Rush/Kolto Overload to 35% (up from 30%), moving it outside of execute range. Adrenaline Rush/Kolto Overload is not intended to make you immune to damage or death; however, this change should make Bounty Hunters and Troopers a significantly less attractive target while Adrenaline Rush/Kolto Overload is active. This change is directed at boosting the survivability of all four Bounty Hunter and Trooper advanced classes.

 

It was also mentioned that we might be stealthily trying to nerf the Assault Specialist’s/Pyrotech’s ability to slow by unlinking Sweltering Heat from Plasma Cell/Combustible Gas Cylinder. That was not our intention, and we will make it so that Explosive Surge/Flame Sweep also triggers the slow effect from Sweltering Heat.

 

We also received plenty of feedback that Assault Specialists/Pyrotechs have very low survivability and that Degauss is just an inferior version of Hold the Line/Hydraulic Overrides. In response, we will be changing Degauss to grant 12.5/25% defense chance for 6 seconds when Diversion/Chaff Flare is activated. We will also boost the Adrenaline Fueled/Automated Defenses skill by adding 15/30% damage reduction while Adrenaline Rush/Kolto Overload is active – making the ability even more effective for Assault Specialist/Pyrotech Vanguards/Powertechs.

 

All of these changes should make it onto the PTS in an upcoming build, so feel free to try them out at your convenience.

 

Patch Notes:

 

Bounty Hunter

• Kolto Overload now triggers at 35% health and may heal up to 35% of max health (both up from 30%).
  

 

Powertech

Shield Tech

• Coolant now allows Kolto Overload to heal you beyond 35% health (up from 30%).
  

 

Pyrotech

• The slow caused by the Sweltering Heat skill may now also be triggered by Flame Sweep.
  
• Degauss has been redesigned: Activating Chaff Flare increases your defense chance by 12.5/25% for 6 seconds.
  
• In addition to its previous functionality, Automated Defenses now also increases damage reduction by 15/30% while Kolto Overload is active.
  

 

Mercenary

Pyrotech

• Degauss has been redesigned: Activating Chaff Flare increases your defense chance by 12.5/25% for 6 seconds.
  

 

Trooper

• Adrenaline Rush now triggers at 35% health and may heal up to 35% of max health (both up from 30%).
  

 

Vanguard

Shield Specialist

• Soldier's Grit now allows Adrenaline Rush to heal you beyond 35% health (up from 30%).
  

 

Assault Specialist

• The slow caused by the Sweltering Heat skill may now also be triggered by Explosive Surge.
  
• Degauss has been redesigned: Activating Diversion increases your defense chance by 12.5/25% for 6 seconds.
  
• In addition to its previous functionality, Adrenaline Fueled now also increases damage reduction by 15/30% while Adrenaline Rush is active.
  

 

Commando

Assault Specialist

• Degauss has been redesigned: Activating Diversion increases your defense chance by 12.5/25% for 6 seconds.
  

Pay all this attention to VGs and 0 to Shadows / Sins. Fair.

[ceelaniri]

Pay all this attention to VGs and 0 to Shadows / Sins. Fair.

 

Patience is a virtue. Wait for your set of questions.

 

Anyway, fixing the burst issues (i.e. tweaking AP/TD or perhaps reworking Burnout by making it decrease the CD of Battle Focus by 1 sec/point for each DoT applied) would a nice way to bring back the spec to a competitive level.

Edited August 28, 2013 by ceelaniri