RocketeerRaccoon Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 (edited) Having recently tried the Jedi Consular and I've just come across that mission where you got the two lovers and the Jedi Masters want to know from you if they are romancing with each other and it got me thinking. Why is love considered a bad thing to the Jedi? To be honest I would say the Jedi code is kinda screwed up and is probably the ultimate downfall of the Old Jedi order when Anakin Skywalker fell in love. Come to think, I'm not sure what's worse now, a cruel dictatorship empire where people die but allows love all around or a peaceful protector order of which not everyone is allowed to love? Edited July 1, 2013 by RocketeerRaccoon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antikythera Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 I think you just answered your own question (Anakin), but I would guess to say that love is a very powerful emotion and Jedi are all about controlling your emotions. They understand that giving into such emotions can be a pathway to I don't know.....the dark side =P. How many horrific acts have been committed in the name of love? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 From talking with others it seems to be a pretty common view that in some respects the Jedi code is just as detrimental and extremist as the Sith, the restriction about love being one of them. As far as I can tell the rule is there so that Jedi are free from emotional attachment that could otherwise blind them to the truth and prevent them from doing what is right. They're all about cutting themselves off from emotions, for fear that it will lead to the dark side. It seems especially foolish given that there is clearly some connection between the power of the force in parents and their offspring. There may be plenty of force sensitives to keep the ranks full, but it seems like restricting procreation amongst them is just a waste of potentially powerful bloodlines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Its basically the same as the priesthood. The priesthood views the relationship between the person and God as so important and divine that any other relationship spoils it. This is very similar to how the Jedi council believes that to be Jedi, your relationship with the force should not be broken by any other relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Moonshadow Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 They say Jedi like to do the weird stuff. (We do the weird stuff) +500 Nerd/Geek points if you get this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeweledleah Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 the idea is that jedi need to be impartial. love means that there's a person (or people) that they will always value above everyone else, and that can adversely affect their decisions, up to and including saving the one they love, over multiple strangers. jedi is supposed to always chose the greater good, not personal happiness. so. love is forbidden. the problem is - forbidding emotion doesn't teach people how to deal with it. Anakin was an extreme example, but "forbidden apple is always sweeter" is such a well known well used saying for a reason. forbidding something doesn't render people incapable of wanting it or feeling it. it just makes it harder on everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlaricSevGirl Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Two words, Jolee Bindo. He's my hero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starglitter Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Mmm... I remember going through that quest with my Jedi Counselar, and felt like a class "A" jerk when i turned them in to management. But thinking it through, the Jedi way is one of serenity and tranquility, and thus an avoidance of emotion is paramount for success, not sure why I feel this is a rip-off of Star Trek's Vulcan philosophy. Yet if I look at the movies for illumination, the last guy who succumbed to love and later emotions dealt essentially a fatal blow to the entire Jedi Order, this being Anyken Skywalker who soon after became Darth Vader. So I can see how emotions can really turn things very wrong. From the Sith side, I am not sure that works too well either, for they are always backstabbing each other for power, much like the Star Trek's Klingon advancement plan (ha ha ha), yet in the process of backstabbing each other the Empire is being continuously injured over it, to a point many military and intelligence officers would just rather have them out of the way. So not sure what is the right answer, for myself I would not want to leave in a worl without love Sue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilysanth Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Two words, Jolee Bindo. He's my hero. ^^ I felt that Jolee explained the reasoning best in KOTOR1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 (edited) Having recently tried the Jedi Consular and I've just come across that mission where you got the two lovers and the Jedi Masters want to know from you if they are romancing with each other and it got me thinking. Why is love considered a bad thing to the Jedi? To be honest I would say the Jedi code is kinda screwed up and is probably the ultimate downfall of the Old Jedi order when Anakin Skywalker fell in love. Come to think, I'm not sure what's worse now, a cruel dictatorship empire where people die but allows love all around or a peaceful protector order of which not everyone is allowed to love? Love is not taboo to Jedi. Attachment is taboo to Jedi. Observe the lore more carefully, IMO. The Force is Love in it's purest form... undifferentiated, neither light nor dark. Attachment is misuse of The Force for personal and selfish reasons, which is taboo to Jedi as it builds the dark side of the force. In this regard, Jedi are "lightest" as even they do not properly embrace the force from a point of balance. Jedi, without realizing it..create a state of conflict in The Force by creating polarity and isolate an aspect of what is whole and complete in it's normal state. Enlightened Jedi understand this and know that if Light exists.. so does Dark, and that the two will interact to recreate a state of balance. Edited July 1, 2013 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superman_AZ Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 The Jedi code is: There is no emotion... There is peace. There is no ignorance... There is knowledge. There is no passion... There is serenity. There is no chaos... There is harmony. There is no death... There is the force. Love is an emotion, and love scorned brings chaos. Look at what happened with Vader (before he was Vader). The moment he thought Padme was cheating on him... BAM... Sith baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MillionsKNives Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Mmm... I remember going through that quest with my Jedi Counselar, and felt like a class "A" jerk when i turned them in to management. But thinking it through, the Jedi way is one of serenity and tranquility, and thus an avoidance of emotion is paramount for success, not sure why I feel this is a rip-off of Star Trek's Vulcan philosophy. Yet if I look at the movies for illumination, the last guy who succumbed to love and later emotions dealt essentially a fatal blow to the entire Jedi Order, this being Anyken Skywalker who soon after became Darth Vader. So I can see how emotions can really turn things very wrong. From the Sith side, I am not sure that works too well either, for they are always backstabbing each other for power, much like the Star Trek's Klingon advancement plan (ha ha ha), yet in the process of backstabbing each other the Empire is being continuously injured over it, to a point many military and intelligence officers would just rather have them out of the way. So not sure what is the right answer, for myself I would not want to leave in a worl without love Sue Something to consider. Would Anakin have turned to the dark side if the Jedi had not forbidden his love? He had other issues (slaughtering a tribe of sand people being one of them), but it seemed that the Jedi's rules only served to exacerbate the issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowermanx Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 They say Jedi like to do the weird stuff. (We do the weird stuff) +500 Nerd/Geek points if you get this. Kiddie fiddling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gorstram Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Love is not taboo to Jedi. Attachment is taboo to Jedi. Observe the lore more carefully, IMO. The Force is Love in it's purest form... undifferentiated, neither light nor dark. Attachment is misuse of The Force for personal and selfish reasons, which is taboo to Jedi as it builds the dark side of the force. In this regard, Jedi are "lightest" as even they do not properly embrace the force from a point of balance. Jedi, without realizing it..create a state of conflict in The Force by creating polarity and isolate an aspect of what is whole and complete in it's normal state. Enlightened Jedi understand this and know that if Light exists.. so does Dark, and that the two will interact to recreate a state of balance. This is probably the best post on the matter in this thread. Yoda also indicates in the movies that attachment is forbidden as it often leads to fear (fear of losing the object of the attachment), and suffering (the feeling after the attachment is broken). There are several instances of romantic attachments throughout the Jedi history, including in this time period (listen closely to your romantic conversations with Kira Carsen, as she spouts of some it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianDavion Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Having recently tried the Jedi Consular and I've just come across that mission where you got the two lovers and the Jedi Masters want to know from you if they are romancing with each other and it got me thinking. Why is love considered a bad thing to the Jedi? To be honest I would say the Jedi code is kinda screwed up and is probably the ultimate downfall of the Old Jedi order when Anakin Skywalker fell in love. Come to think, I'm not sure what's worse now, a cruel dictatorship empire where people die but allows love all around or a peaceful protector order of which not everyone is allowed to love? dude if you talk to those kids their entire relationship is downright creepy. totally should be broken up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarvelZombie Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 They say Jedi like to do the weird stuff. (We do the weird stuff) +500 Nerd/Geek points if you get this. Thinking......Dr Horrible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Moonshadow Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Thinking......Dr Horrible? 500 points to Gryffindor! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sykomyke Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 As someone else said before, Jolee Bindo explains it best... REVAN: You mentioned something about your wife before? JOLEE BINDO: I don't want to talk about that. REVAN: I don't mean to pry, but... JOLEE BINDO: Yes you do. You may mean well enough, but my private affairs are just that: private. JOLEE BINDO: Let me tell you something. Once you've lived as many years as I have, you'll have yourself a long, long list of memories. JOLEE BINDO: If you're lucky, most of them will be good. If you're not, some will be bad. If you're really unlucky, some will be so bad you never want to be reminded of them again... ever. JOLEE BINDO: You'll go far away, to a place that doesn't hold any memories at all. And there you'll be happy just to forget and be forgotten. REVAN: Is that why you went to Kashyyyk? JOLEE BINDO: Heh. Partly, maybe. I doubt I could ever explain it to you fully, even if I wanted to. JOLEE BINDO: Let me ask you this: have you ever been in love? Truly in love, I mean, and not simple infatuation. REVAN: Well... JOLEE BINDO: Exactly. You're still at the beginning of your life. There will be women in your life... perhaps many women... but if you're fortunate you'll find love once. JOLEE BINDO: The Jedi, with their damnable sense of over-caution, would tell you love is something to avoid. Thankfully, anyone who's even partially alive knows that's not true. REVAN: That's what I've always thought. JOLEE BINDO: Love doesn't lead to the dark side. Passion can lead to rage and fear, and can be controlled... but passion is not the same thing as love. JOLEE BINDO: Controlling your passions while being in love... that's what they should teach you to beware. But love, itself, will save you... not condemn you. JOLEE BINDO: Ahhhh, but listen to me go on as if I had all the answers. What do I know of love anymore? I'm just a lonely old man who's not even a Jedi. REVAN: Not even a Jedi? You mean not any more, right? JOLEE BINDO: Nope. Never was. Technically I never rose above the rank of Padawan, for various reasons. Does that surprise you? REVAN: Not the way you describe your past, no. JOLEE BINDO: Heh, I suppose I'm not prone to live my life like most of the Jedi Masters do, that's true. My opinions on love are no different. JOLEE BINDO: Love causes pain, certainly. Inevitably love is going to lead to as much sorrow and regret as it does joy. I suppose there are perfect, eternal loves out there... but I haven't seen any. JOLEE BINDO: How you deal with the bad part of love is what determines your character, what determines the dark side's hold over you. REVAN: Maybe the Jedi just think you shouldn't take that risk. JOLEE BINDO: Bah. A life without risk is boring. Is that how you want to live? You want love, you've got to fight for it. JOLEE BINDO: I'll tell you one thing: sometimes, no matter how hard you try, you and the one you love simply aren't meant to be together. JOLEE BINDO: The trick is to know when that is, to know when it's time to fight and when it's time to part ways. JOLEE BINDO: Hmph... there I go waxing philosophical again. Somebody blast me already! Let's get going before I start talking in riddles, dammit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pantaro Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 I think you just answered your own question (Anakin), but I would guess to say that love is a very powerful emotion and Jedi are all about controlling your emotions. They understand that giving into such emotions can be a pathway to I don't know.....the dark side =P. How many horrific acts have been committed in the name of love? yep definitely answered your own question Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vandicus Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Force-users are extremely dangerous, especially when you consider that literally every galactic war(including the one involving the Vong) is a result of conflict between force users. Ultimately they wield a disproportionate amount of power by virtue of their genetics, and this power can range from the rather common ability of mind control(which when you really think about it is already quite powerful) to the ability to cause stars to go supernova. The Jedi take an extremely conservative and cautious attitude towards teaching their students. Loss of self control, emotional instability, megalomania, any of these could cause a force user to threaten the lives of millions if not billions of people. What emotions are there that threaten one's mental state in a relationship? Infatuation, obsession, jealousy(then think of Jedi who have the power to manipulate and read thoughts, as well as shield their own thoughts from others) What emotions might they experience if their loved one died? Depression, Rage at the killer(the dark side offers the potentially of bringing them back/immortality/etc., they also have the power to seek vengeance) What if they broke up? Resentment, Anger, Desire to convince the ex to change their mind(again dangerous with people who can use mind control, or they might seek to recklessly improve their power to impress their ex) Many of these are normal human emotions resulting from relationships, and aren't extremely harmful to ourselves or those around us except in rare cases. Force users aren't normal people though, they have the power to act upon these emotions. Jedi embrace a policy of strong self-restraint in order to protect others, Sith follow a policy of personal freedom to tyrannize others with their inborn power. If this is too abstract, imagine if one of your loved ones were killed, and that you had to refrain from anger, even if that anger might give you the power to grant you vengeance and stop the killer from killing more innocents. A Jedi needs to be impartial in order to make the decisions that benefit the galaxy the most, giving in to strong emotion keeps them from that impartiality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrooperSev Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Something to consider. Would Anakin have turned to the dark side if the Jedi had not forbidden his love? He had other issues (slaughtering a tribe of sand people being one of them), but it seemed that the Jedi's rules only served to exacerbate the issue. Yes. Remember he was having visions of Padme dying and sidious coerced anakin into believing he could stop it. Love is the most powerful emotion. Anakin's love for Padme drove him to the dark side even though his intentions were pure. That is why it's forbidden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeppelin Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Because George Lucas is a terrible writer and was trying to create artificial roadblocks for PadMe and Anakin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valen_Starr Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 Yes. Remember he was having visions of Padme dying and sidious coerced anakin into believing he could stop it. Love is the most powerful emotion. Anakin's love for Padme drove him to the dark side even though his intentions were pure. That is why it's forbidden. Anakin's love for his son also redeemed him, bringing him back to the light. A previous poster put this up, and I agree that Jolee says it best. JOLEE BINDO: The Jedi, with their damnable sense of over-caution, would tell you love is something to avoid. Thankfully, anyone who's even partially alive knows that's not true. REVAN: That's what I've always thought. JOLEE BINDO: Love doesn't lead to the dark side. Passion can lead to rage and fear, and can be controlled... but passion is not the same thing as love. JOLEE BINDO: Controlling your passions while being in love... that's what they should teach you to beware. But love, itself, will save you... not condemn you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitblade Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 The Jedi take an extremely conservative and cautious attitude towards teaching their students. Loss of self control, emotional instability, megalomania, any of these could cause a force user to threaten the lives of millions if not billions of people. What emotions are there that threaten one's mental state in a relationship? Infatuation, obsession, jealousy(then think of Jedi who have the power to manipulate and read thoughts, as well as shield their own thoughts from others) What emotions might they experience if their loved one died? Depression, Rage at the killer(the dark side offers the potentially of bringing them back/immortality/etc., they also have the power to seek vengeance) What if they broke up? Resentment, Anger, Desire to convince the ex to change their mind(again dangerous with people who can use mind control, or they might seek to recklessly improve their power to impress their ex) You have to consider the flip-side of it. The Jedi Order teaches you to form no attachments of any kind, no love also means no friendship, not even knowing a person. So after you have trained your padawan to be an extremely apathetic individual that controls it's emotions (could you even say they still have any), what reason is there for them to go and save the galaxy time and again??? They have been taught all their lives not to care. Also consider the hypocrisy of the master-padawan relationship. Put 2 persons with a radical age difference between the 2 where the elder is a definite parental figure and tell me the younger will not form an attachement... please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vandicus Posted July 1, 2013 Share Posted July 1, 2013 You have to consider the flip-side of it. The Jedi Order teaches you to form no attachments of any kind, no love also means no friendship, not even knowing a person. So after you have trained your padawan to be an extremely apathetic individual that controls it's emotions (could you even say they still have any), what reason is there for them to go and save the galaxy time and again??? They have been taught all their lives not to care. Also consider the hypocrisy of the master-padawan relationship. Put 2 persons with a radical age difference between the 2 where the elder is a definite parental figure and tell me the younger will not form an attachement... please I'm not advocating it, simply explaining their reasoning, which I find to at least be comprehensible. Personally I think the Jedi Order's ideals and standards are too lofty to hold people to, which is what causes so many to break under the strain. That being said, I still understand their logic in operating as they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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